Knicks · so looks like Trier is not so liked around the campfire (page 2)

SupremeCommander wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:hopefully this is a maturity thing - look at D'angelo Russell

Or look at Swaggy P I don't expect him to be like Harden as far as playmaking, but Trier is more than capable of being a drive and kick engine when (or if) we ever get a real offense in place.

He reminds me of Harden a little. An upgrade in the roster should help.

I don't disagree with either of you...
my overall point though is there are plenty of examples (I picked DRuss because he's the most recent, major example) of a young, shoot-first player that was chased out of town a little too soon... how about Joe Johnson or Isaish Thomas... all I am saying is give IsoZo a chance!

much more to like here than not like
1) He's KD's buddy amd KD plays the right way. Durant comes here hopefully it brings out the best in Trier
2) Ive read they want Trier to play some PG this summer to get better at the things mentioned in this article (although surely not BECAUSE of this article)
3) Trier was a rookie and a scorer by nature. When trying to find your way leaning on what you do best is not a bad thing.
4) I like the comment "who were the vets?" because that says alot. Marv's note about his games with multiple assists show the ability is there

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:This was FIZ fault for allowing him the ability to be the only guy that can hold the ball as long as he likes, and pass when ever he feels.

It's the same thing he did with Knox, telling him to keep taking it to the hole and being aggressive.

Derek fishers (17 win roster) lacked talent, and the triangle killed all momentum

Fizdale had way more talent then fisher, had no triangle.

IMO..This was (hands down) by far the most selfish team in the NBA this season, and in Knicks history..Who do we blame for that?

Trier made Melo look like frank..(as far as passing)

It wasn't just Trier. THJ and Knox were also guilty. I lost count of the times Dotson was open for a spot up 3, only to be brushed off by THJ. It seemed some players weren't held accountable. Also, there doesn't seem to be much of a system. We've had bad teams before, but at least you got a sense of what guys like Fisher, and Hornacek were trying to do. Even with those early Celtics and Sixers team, I got a sense of what Steven and Brown were trying instill. Maybe our talent was so bad that they couldn't show anything on the court? I'm still giving Fiz the benefit of the doubt, but I'd be lying if I said I was confident going into next season.

What i seen happen is fiz given guys free reign (his selling point to FA) and that's when sht just back fired and dudes started playing ISO, and not really caring about winning, habits they built over the course of the season.

if all you hear is "DON'T WORRY ABOUT WINNING JUST DO YOU" and get better..

I went to a AAU tournament this wknd in PA..OMG...damn near every kid in there played like trier, and MY girlfriends son played like Frank. While he kept passing the ball trying to play team ball,No one would passing him the ball despite being wide open..

It was just ugly basketball all wknd long

So what did you do?
Yell at the other kids? Yell at their parents?
Go all "Rainman" on them?
Berate the boy for being Frank?
Did you leave the kid to walk home?
Wait until he went to bed then have angry Rainman nooky with girlfriend?

dude earned himself a $3.3M pro-rated contact and an option for next.

Trier earned it

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:This was FIZ fault for allowing him the ability to be the only guy that can hold the ball as long as he likes, and pass when ever he feels.

It's the same thing he did with Knox, telling him to keep taking it to the hole and being aggressive.

Derek fishers (17 win roster) lacked talent, and the triangle killed all momentum

Fizdale had way more talent then fisher, had no triangle.

IMO..This was (hands down) by far the most selfish team in the NBA this season, and in Knicks history..Who do we blame for that?

Trier made Melo look like frank..(as far as passing)

It wasn't just Trier. THJ and Knox were also guilty. I lost count of the times Dotson was open for a spot up 3, only to be brushed off by THJ. It seemed some players weren't held accountable. Also, there doesn't seem to be much of a system. We've had bad teams before, but at least you got a sense of what guys like Fisher, and Hornacek were trying to do. Even with those early Celtics and Sixers team, I got a sense of what Steven and Brown were trying instill. Maybe our talent was so bad that they couldn't show anything on the court? I'm still giving Fiz the benefit of the doubt, but I'd be lying if I said I was confident going into next season.

What i seen happen is fiz given guys free reign (his selling point to FA) and that's when sht just back fired and dudes started playing ISO, and not really caring about winning, habits they built over the course of the season.

if all you hear is "DON'T WORRY ABOUT WINNING JUST DO YOU" and get better..

I went to a AAU tournament this wknd in PA..OMG...damn near every kid in there played like trier, and MY girlfriends son played like Frank. While he kept passing the ball trying to play team ball,No one would passing him the ball despite being wide open..

It was just ugly basketball all wknd long

So what did you do?
Yell at the other kids? Yell at their parents?
Go all "Rainman" on them?
Berate the boy for being Frank?
Did you leave the kid to walk home?
Wait until he went to bed then have angry Rainman nooky with girlfriend?

Well, if ISO ball is ugly basketball....You better find a new sport. Because ISO ball is here to stay, with a new generation of players looking to shoot like Steph and travel like Harden.

What's interesting is that not more than a week ago an assertion that Knicks teammates were not passing to Frankie [allegedly because he wouldn't go for a score].

Now, more truthfully, we can narrow down who wasn't passing and why. And the why had less to do with Frankie's game than Trier's.

Trier is a dawg!! No moment seems too big for him...he"s from the same cloth as Lou William's/Jamal Crawford the type of player to come up big in a big moment regardless of who is on the floor with him. I love the kid...

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:This was FIZ fault for allowing him the ability to be the only guy that can hold the ball as long as he likes, and pass when ever he feels.

It's the same thing he did with Knox, telling him to keep taking it to the hole and being aggressive.

Derek fishers (17 win roster) lacked talent, and the triangle killed all momentum

Fizdale had way more talent then fisher, had no triangle.

IMO..This was (hands down) by far the most selfish team in the NBA this season, and in Knicks history..Who do we blame for that?

Trier made Melo look like frank..(as far as passing)

It wasn't just Trier. THJ and Knox were also guilty. I lost count of the times Dotson was open for a spot up 3, only to be brushed off by THJ. It seemed some players weren't held accountable. Also, there doesn't seem to be much of a system. We've had bad teams before, but at least you got a sense of what guys like Fisher, and Hornacek were trying to do. Even with those early Celtics and Sixers team, I got a sense of what Steven and Brown were trying instill. Maybe our talent was so bad that they couldn't show anything on the court? I'm still giving Fiz the benefit of the doubt, but I'd be lying if I said I was confident going into next season.

What i seen happen is fiz given guys free reign (his selling point to FA) and that's when sht just back fired and dudes started playing ISO, and not really caring about winning, habits they built over the course of the season.

if all you hear is "DON'T WORRY ABOUT WINNING JUST DO YOU" and get better..

I went to a AAU tournament this wknd in PA..OMG...damn near every kid in there played like trier, and MY girlfriends son played like Frank. While he kept passing the ball trying to play team ball,No one would passing him the ball despite being wide open..

It was just ugly basketball all wknd long

So what did you do?
Yell at the other kids? Yell at their parents?
Go all "Rainman" on them?
Berate the boy for being Frank?
Did you leave the kid to walk home?
Wait until he went to bed then have angry Rainman nooky with girlfriend?

Well, if ISO ball is ugly basketball....You better find a new sport. Because ISO ball is here to stay, with a new generation of players looking to shoot like Steph and travel like Harden.

Harden and Curry shoot at an incredible level, they also have elite passing ability, neither of those type of ISO players hold the ball, and if the do, it's because they're sizing the defender up to bury a 3 in their grill..

Not so for ISO-ZO, he holds the ball too long in half court sets, he will go 1 on 4 in fast break situations..He has tremendous talent, but his mental is keeping in from taking his game to the next level, the way he plays made him fall all the way out of the draft despite his talent(not just the ped's..all show and no substance, he doesn't play the game the right way.

I wish you could go in a lab and combine franks skill set with Trier skill set and come out with Pippen..

knicks1248 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:This was FIZ fault for allowing him the ability to be the only guy that can hold the ball as long as he likes, and pass when ever he feels.

It's the same thing he did with Knox, telling him to keep taking it to the hole and being aggressive.

Derek fishers (17 win roster) lacked talent, and the triangle killed all momentum

Fizdale had way more talent then fisher, had no triangle.

IMO..This was (hands down) by far the most selfish team in the NBA this season, and in Knicks history..Who do we blame for that?

Trier made Melo look like frank..(as far as passing)

It wasn't just Trier. THJ and Knox were also guilty. I lost count of the times Dotson was open for a spot up 3, only to be brushed off by THJ. It seemed some players weren't held accountable. Also, there doesn't seem to be much of a system. We've had bad teams before, but at least you got a sense of what guys like Fisher, and Hornacek were trying to do. Even with those early Celtics and Sixers team, I got a sense of what Steven and Brown were trying instill. Maybe our talent was so bad that they couldn't show anything on the court? I'm still giving Fiz the benefit of the doubt, but I'd be lying if I said I was confident going into next season.

What i seen happen is fiz given guys free reign (his selling point to FA) and that's when sht just back fired and dudes started playing ISO, and not really caring about winning, habits they built over the course of the season.

if all you hear is "DON'T WORRY ABOUT WINNING JUST DO YOU" and get better..

I went to a AAU tournament this wknd in PA..OMG...damn near every kid in there played like trier, and MY girlfriends son played like Frank. While he kept passing the ball trying to play team ball,No one would passing him the ball despite being wide open..

It was just ugly basketball all wknd long

So what did you do?
Yell at the other kids? Yell at their parents?
Go all "Rainman" on them?
Berate the boy for being Frank?
Did you leave the kid to walk home?
Wait until he went to bed then have angry Rainman nooky with girlfriend?

Well, if ISO ball is ugly basketball....You better find a new sport. Because ISO ball is here to stay, with a new generation of players looking to shoot like Steph and travel like Harden.

Harden and Curry shoot at an incredible level, they also have elite passing ability, neither of those type of ISO players hold the ball, and if the do, it's because they're sizing the defender up to bury a 3 in their grill..

Not so for ISO-ZO, he holds the ball too long in half court sets, he will go 1 on 4 in fast break situations..He has tremendous talent, but his mental is keeping in from taking his game to the next level, the way he plays made him fall all the way out of the draft despite his talent(not just the ped's..all show and no substance, he doesn't play the game the right way.

I wish you could go in a lab and combine franks skill set with Trier skill set and come out with Pippen..

you'd have to remove both their hearts so they'd be sure to take themselves out of a playoff game and sulk when they don't get to take the last shot.

Marv wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:This was FIZ fault for allowing him the ability to be the only guy that can hold the ball as long as he likes, and pass when ever he feels.

It's the same thing he did with Knox, telling him to keep taking it to the hole and being aggressive.

Derek fishers (17 win roster) lacked talent, and the triangle killed all momentum

Fizdale had way more talent then fisher, had no triangle.

IMO..This was (hands down) by far the most selfish team in the NBA this season, and in Knicks history..Who do we blame for that?

Trier made Melo look like frank..(as far as passing)

It wasn't just Trier. THJ and Knox were also guilty. I lost count of the times Dotson was open for a spot up 3, only to be brushed off by THJ. It seemed some players weren't held accountable. Also, there doesn't seem to be much of a system. We've had bad teams before, but at least you got a sense of what guys like Fisher, and Hornacek were trying to do. Even with those early Celtics and Sixers team, I got a sense of what Steven and Brown were trying instill. Maybe our talent was so bad that they couldn't show anything on the court? I'm still giving Fiz the benefit of the doubt, but I'd be lying if I said I was confident going into next season.

What i seen happen is fiz given guys free reign (his selling point to FA) and that's when sht just back fired and dudes started playing ISO, and not really caring about winning, habits they built over the course of the season.

if all you hear is "DON'T WORRY ABOUT WINNING JUST DO YOU" and get better..

I went to a AAU tournament this wknd in PA..OMG...damn near every kid in there played like trier, and MY girlfriends son played like Frank. While he kept passing the ball trying to play team ball,No one would passing him the ball despite being wide open..

It was just ugly basketball all wknd long

So what did you do?
Yell at the other kids? Yell at their parents?
Go all "Rainman" on them?
Berate the boy for being Frank?
Did you leave the kid to walk home?
Wait until he went to bed then have angry Rainman nooky with girlfriend?

Well, if ISO ball is ugly basketball....You better find a new sport. Because ISO ball is here to stay, with a new generation of players looking to shoot like Steph and travel like Harden.

Harden and Curry shoot at an incredible level, they also have elite passing ability, neither of those type of ISO players hold the ball, and if the do, it's because they're sizing the defender up to bury a 3 in their grill..

Not so for ISO-ZO, he holds the ball too long in half court sets, he will go 1 on 4 in fast break situations..He has tremendous talent, but his mental is keeping in from taking his game to the next level, the way he plays made him fall all the way out of the draft despite his talent(not just the ped's..all show and no substance, he doesn't play the game the right way.

I wish you could go in a lab and combine franks skill set with Trier skill set and come out with Pippen..

you'd have to remove both their hearts so they'd be sure to take themselves out of a playoff game and sulk when they don't get to take the last shot.

BAM

Rainman as Dr Frankenstein!

To be truthful, from a chemistry stand point, I agree.
However, I have to accuse all the Knick players throughout coach Fizdale so-call development season of being selfish Ball-Hogs. All the Knick players performance in every lineup throughout the season showed poor team judgment of being a selfish shoot-first player.
Coach Fizdale's Isolation-system had NO team-ballin in its scheme, the coach had NO plan for any of the Knick players .. No plan A, B, or C, the only plan coach Fizdale had were TANKING! We watch Fizdale change the starting 5 lineup weekly, plus change the rotation of players every other game.
I recall last season we had a pass-pass first rookie Frank that rarely took a shot in his 20 min performance each night. But under Fizdale this season Frank did a 360 changed to become a ball-hog shoot first player.
In the summer league game Trier rarely took a shot!
Plus we must look at the early change of lineups the coach kept making without having a system nor any type of set-plays for our scorers THJ, Trier, Knox, Mario, or Kanter to score. The majority (90%) of the Knicks scoring throughout the season came from broken plays. Another thing to look at from the Knick season were the playing-time given to the Knick players on their final contract year, which happen to be over half the players on the roster. The Knicks loss their final game of the season by 30 points to the Detroit Pistons .. The Bucks beat the Pistons by 40 points in their first game of the playoffs !!!

Trier would be benched on a good team, or a team building a winning culture, it's the same reason DSJ style was frowned upon in Dallas.

I like My guards to be pass first every time all the time, that doesn't mean i don't want them to drop 20 on any given night, it just means your first instinct(as a lead guard) should always be to keep your.
teammates involved.

fishmike wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:hopefully this is a maturity thing - look at D'angelo Russell

Or look at Swaggy P I don't expect him to be like Harden as far as playmaking, but Trier is more than capable of being a drive and kick engine when (or if) we ever get a real offense in place.

He reminds me of Harden a little. An upgrade in the roster should help.

I don't disagree with either of you...
my overall point though is there are plenty of examples (I picked DRuss because he's the most recent, major example) of a young, shoot-first player that was chased out of town a little too soon... how about Joe Johnson or Isaish Thomas... all I am saying is give IsoZo a chance!

much more to like here than not like
1) He's KD's buddy amd KD plays the right way. Durant comes here hopefully it brings out the best in Trier
2) Ive read they want Trier to play some PG this summer to get better at the things mentioned in this article (although surely not BECAUSE of this article)
3) Trier was a rookie and a scorer by nature. When trying to find your way leaning on what you do best is not a bad thing.
4) I like the comment "who were the vets?" because that says alot. Marv's note about his games with multiple assists show the ability is there

when I had my opportunity to talk to Mr. John Starks, I flat out asked him if anyone reminded himself of himself. He said Trier. That's really all I needed to hear

Timmy was in the right he isn’t often but the situation where Trier went total tunnel vision. Hardaway was ahead of him and he didn’t pass the ball. Basketball 101 says you pass the ball. Even the greatest of all time will pass the ball.

knicks1248 wrote:Trier would be benched on a good team, or a team building a winning culture, it's the same reason DSJ style was frowned upon in Dallas.

I like My guards to be pass first every time all the time, that doesn't mean i don't want them to drop 20 on any given night, it just means your first instinct(as a lead guard) should always be to keep your.
teammates involved.

Yep... Yep...
I do not see any team yet.
Some parts and pieces.
The FO had to find out what they are and they surely did.
The rest is irrelevant.
It will be hardly 5-7 players will we in Knicks uni nest October from what we have now.
So who cares about the past season and what Trier or any one for that matter was doing as team play is a concern?

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See i look at plays like this and you and I both know, that anyone of our guards(Trier, Mudiay, DSJ..frank would never draw a double team) would have not made the extra pass and in fact force a bogus ill-advised shot.

That's why we were losing so many damn games...TOO MUCH HERO BALL

knicks1248 wrote:

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See i look at plays like this and you and I both know, that anyone of our guards(Trier, Mudiay, DSJ..frank would never draw a double team) would have not made the extra pass and in fact force a bogus ill-advised shot.

That's why we were losing so many damn games...TOO MUCH HERO BALL

Bullshit!!! DSJ proved to be a ball mover when we got a chance to watch him day in and day out...Also, Lou Williams never turns down a shot,but he was double teamed and made the right play...None of the guys you mentioned are good enough to get double teamed, and if they were to get trapped out of a pick n roll, none of them would attack a double team....

knicks1248 wrote:

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See i look at plays like this and you and I both know, that anyone of our guards(Trier, Mudiay, DSJ..frank would never draw a double team) would have not made the extra pass and in fact force a bogus ill-advised shot.

That's why we were losing so many damn games...TOO MUCH HERO BALL

You try to compare the Gift of Gods with omelet.
Clips are a good team already and Knicks are some row material to build one with process barely started.
There is nothing to discuss there.
When Trier will be a part of the structure with well defined role we will be able to see his team skills if any exist.

In the beginning of the year, he was a ball hog but even then the guy made quick decisions with the ball. He was playing for his contract, so I understood it. By the end of the year, he was passing more and playing more within the offense, so I think the whole thing is overblown. When you shoot 45% from the field and 39% from 3, AS A ROOKIE, you are going to get the green light to shoot. Trier was an amazing find who should have been a first round pick.

knicks1248 wrote:

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See i look at plays like this and you and I both know, that anyone of our guards(Trier, Mudiay, DSJ..frank would never draw a double team) would have not made the extra pass and in fact force a bogus ill-advised shot.

That's why we were losing so many damn games...TOO MUCH HERO BALL

Don’t you think if our guards were good enough to finish 8th and qualify for the playoffs, then be just one pt down in at playoff game against the best team in the league with the ball and a times a ticking, they would warrant respect?

could be trade bait for an upgrade