Okay, so this is following on from the other thread. The idea behind drafting Culver is he's a better fit next to KD and Kemba as he's less ball dominant and is a better defender (who knows about his shooting- his 3PT went from 38% last year to 30% this year). Also the idea of taking him is that you trade down with the Cavs and maybe pick up their 2020 (if they can get it back from the Hawks- it's top 10 protected then converts to 2 second rounders, so that might not be impossible). That 2020 pick would likely be high and in a deeper draft, plus would add to our box of assets.
the Stepien have him ranked 2nd in this draft, in tier 2 (RJ is 32d, and then Morant isn't until 4th in tier 3)
I could see the two trade rumors out there merging and us ending up trading Frank and RJ to the Cavs for Culver, the 26th Pick and next years 2020 first rounder (if they can get it back from the cavs). Not saying I'd do it, but RJ's fit does make me pause for thought. With this mindset, In retrospect maybe we should have drafted Mikal Bridges instead of Knox.
BigDaddyG@ 5/30/2019 3:54 AM
smackeddog wrote:
Okay, so this is following on from the other thread. The idea behind drafting Culver is he's a better fit next to KD and Kemba as he's less ball dominant and is a better defender (who knows about his shooting- his 3PT went from 38% last year to 30% this year). Also the idea of taking him is that you trade down with the Cavs and maybe pick up their 2020 (if they can get it back from the Hawks- it's top 10 protected then converts to 2 second rounders, so that might not be impossible). That 2020 pick would likely be high and in a deeper draft, plus would add to our box of assets.
the Stepien have him ranked 2nd in this draft, in tier 2 (RJ is 32d, and then Morant isn't until 4th in tier 3)
I could see the two trade rumors out there merging and us ending up trading Frank and RJ to the Cavs for Culver, the 26th Pick and next years 2020 first rounder (if they can get it back from the cavs). Not saying I'd do it, but RJ's fit does make me pause for thought. With this mindset, In retrospect maybe we should have drafted Mikal Bridges instead of Knox.
I'm just not sure this guy is athletic enough and I don't think he shoots well enough to compensate. I see a more athletic Jared Dudley type. I mean prime, Pheonix Suns Jared Dudley, not the out of shape guy who plays for the Nets. I've seen Carissa Levert comps, but I feel Levert was a better creator in college.
Nalod@ 5/30/2019 8:37 AM
Key to any discussion is Durant a lock and knowing this before the draft, and the biggie is do the cav’s value Barrett enough to make this deal. Fans think: “We trade down and get two picks, yay for us!” If we don’t value RJ is not important, its important that some one with two picks do. Beyond Durant............ If RJ has the big upside, in 4 years was are sayin good buy to KD and perhaps 23 year old RJ is our big dog? If Culver is as good as advertised, why would a team make the trade? Personally I like the kid and he was my expectation at the 5. IF A team makes an offer you can’t refuse.....YOu don’t.
Chandler@ 5/30/2019 8:58 AM
I am not good at projecting college talent
having said that, if we sign fancy FAs it is highly likely this will be the last high draft pick in a long time and the chance to get him on rookie contract and all the other fancy CBA stuff
trading down from a superstar category 1-3 does not make sense to me.
Knixkik@ 5/30/2019 9:10 AM
Chandler wrote:I am not good at projecting college talent
having said that, if we sign fancy FAs it is highly likely this will be the last high draft pick in a long time and the chance to get him on rookie contract and all the other fancy CBA stuff
trading down from a superstar category 1-3 does not make sense to me.
Yeah trading down when you're talking about this type of drop off after 3 is absurd. We can't get fancy. This is an easy draft for us.
SupremeCommander@ 5/30/2019 12:15 PM
no fucking way. draft BPA. fuck fit
Marv@ 5/30/2019 12:20 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:no fucking way. draft BPA. fuck fit
fucking right.
smackeddog@ 5/30/2019 12:39 PM
I can't get excited at the prospect of drafting him- I just don't see what the fuss is about, he basically comes across as a serviceable vet at best. The only context I'd consider him is that we have DSJ, Trier and Knox who all like the ball, then add KD and Kemba or Kyrie, and suddenly we have too many ball dominant scorers- does RJ fit with that?
Allanfan20@ 5/30/2019 4:03 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:no fucking way. draft BPA. fuck fit
Yeah. This wouldn’t even be a Layden or Isiah move. It would just be a different form of stupid.
Draft RJ.
mikesknicks@ 5/30/2019 8:16 PM
RJ and It's not even close. The Knicks should already have their draft card filled out to give to Adam Silver!
NYKBocker@ 5/30/2019 8:52 PM
Marv wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:no fucking way. draft BPA. fuck fit
fucking right.
Fucking aye BPA
knickstorrents@ 5/30/2019 11:48 PM
I like him. Projects as a plus defender, and a good value if we can trade down in the draft in exchange for more picks. RJ will not save the franchise, may as well continue to accumulate assets and pickup undervalued players who play smart and efficient basketball.
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/jarrett-culver
Strengths: After playing a supportive role at Texas Tech as a freshman, Jarrett Culver has quickly shot up draft boards as a sophomore by displaying a great all around floor game ... At 6'6'' Culver displays the size to play both the two and three spots at the next level, and with solid athletic ability and length ... Offensively he's paced the Red Raiders all season with 18.5 points per game (which is 25.3% of TTU's offensive output) as well as acted as primary distributor and ball handler ... Throw in his 3.6 assists per game, and he's directly involved in over 35% of Texas Tech's scoring plays ... His all around offensive game makes him a multi-dimensional scorer as he has a fundamentally sound high arching shot in which he needs to be respected from beyond the arc, as well as being able to pull up from the mid-range ... Culver's footwork and hesitation moves on the perimeter are terrific as well, and will directly translate to the next level ... He's great at drawing his defenders off balance, and has a great array of moves once he gets in the lane ... Jarrett also displays a high basketball IQ, and the ability to make a play when his team needs one the most ... Playing in such a defensive oriented system in college, Culver has great defensive instincts, quick hands, and displays good effort ... He's an above average rebounder for a 6'6'' guard (6.3 rebounds per game) and off a defensive miss or a steal, he's a tough matchup in fast break situations due to his good passing ability ... He projects as a plus defender in the NBA.
Weaknesses: Culver's weaknesses are mostly things that can be improved with continued growth as a player ... Right now his 3 point shot is worth keeping his defender honest at the college level, but he's going to need to continue to hit the gym to become a high level long range shooter in the NBA ... Can also stand to tighten his handle as he makes the leap to the next level ... He'll also need to continue to work on his body ... Culver's 195 pound frame will get pushed around by larger NBA two guards and small forwards, though he does have solid legs as a base ... He doesn't have the elite run/jump ability to make up for this at this point either ... At 6'6'' his height is good for a swingman being considered at the top of the draft, but not elite ... He just needs to continue to develop at the same pace he's done from his freshman to sophomore years ... Jarrett has a very NBA translatable offensive game, and a lot of his weaknesses can be improved upon in the gym.
Overall: Jarrett Culver's well balanced floor game, and array of hesitation moves and elite footwork make him a very intriguing player in the mid-lottery this year ... He's been asked to do a tremendous amount for his team this year on both ends of the floor, and has delivered, producing at an excellent level ... His scoring and passing will only shine more in a faster paced NBA system, and his knack for drawing fouls will be a great asset as well ... Culver may not dazzle you with elite athletic ability, but from a skill standpoint, he's got a great foundation in which to build.
Sambakick@ 5/31/2019 12:47 AM
This franchise hasn't drafted this high in decades and fans want to trade down.
In theory anyone is tradeable. But the return you guys are willing to take back is laughable.
"R.J., on the other hand, often looks lost in the woods when he gets into the paint, and it feels like he decides whether he’s going to pass or shoot before he starts his drives. "
" The thing that stands out most to me about Culver is his basketball I.Q. and feel for the game. It shows itself in almost everything he does on the floor, and there are tons of evidence with how much he played on-ball as the primary initiator for Texas Tech this season. It’s also one of the starkest differences between his game and R.J.’s."
"R.J., on the other hand, often looks lost in the woods when he gets into the paint, and it feels like he decides whether he’s going to pass or shoot before he starts his drives."
"Harley: Barrett will have more options at the next level for sure, and he has made some good reads this year (mostly out of a standstill and rarely on his drives), but he misses very basic opportunities to get better shots—multiple times per game—when he puts his head down."
"But when the game is on the line, things seem to slow down for Culver. Per @dribblehandoff: “Since the start of conference play, Culver has shot 56% from the field in clutch time (two-possession game and under five minutes). He accounts for 25% of Texas Tech’s overall points, yet 47% (!) of the Red Raiders’ points in clutch time.”
"Harley: Defense and I.Q. are the areas where the largest gaps between the two prospects lie for me. R.J. straight up does not try on defense. Almost not at all. It’s astonishing how little he seems to care on that end. Below is one clip from a thread of five plays from one SINGLE game in which Barrett gives up on a play the exact moment he gets beat. It’s really alarming."
Why do so many people on this board not appreciate high iq players and fall for the flashy athletic guys? I don't get it.
Jmpasq@ 5/31/2019 5:43 AM
knickstorrents wrote: Why do so many people on this board not appreciate high iq players and fall for the flashy athletic guys? I don't get it.
Frank Ntilikina is a high IQ player and good defender, He has not been Good
ankurk@ 5/31/2019 6:55 AM
There is no case for culver - thats it. RJ is the choice don't overthink it like Frank>DSJ and Donovan
BigDaddyG@ 5/31/2019 10:59 AM
knickstorrents wrote:Good post on comparing the two prospects -
"R.J., on the other hand, often looks lost in the woods when he gets into the paint, and it feels like he decides whether he’s going to pass or shoot before he starts his drives. "
" The thing that stands out most to me about Culver is his basketball I.Q. and feel for the game. It shows itself in almost everything he does on the floor, and there are tons of evidence with how much he played on-ball as the primary initiator for Texas Tech this season. It’s also one of the starkest differences between his game and R.J.’s."
"R.J., on the other hand, often looks lost in the woods when he gets into the paint, and it feels like he decides whether he’s going to pass or shoot before he starts his drives."
"Harley: Barrett will have more options at the next level for sure, and he has made some good reads this year (mostly out of a standstill and rarely on his drives), but he misses very basic opportunities to get better shots—multiple times per game—when he puts his head down."
"But when the game is on the line, things seem to slow down for Culver. Per @dribblehandoff: “Since the start of conference play, Culver has shot 56% from the field in clutch time (two-possession game and under five minutes). He accounts for 25% of Texas Tech’s overall points, yet 47% (!) of the Red Raiders’ points in clutch time.”
"Harley: Defense and I.Q. are the areas where the largest gaps between the two prospects lie for me. R.J. straight up does not try on defense. Almost not at all. It’s astonishing how little he seems to care on that end. Below is one clip from a thread of five plays from one SINGLE game in which Barrett gives up on a play the exact moment he gets beat. It’s really alarming."
Why do so many people on this board not appreciate high iq players and fall for the flashy athletic guys? I don't get it.
Both guys have question marks. Culver's first step and ability to shoot off the dribble are kind of suspect. Can he utilize his playmaking on the next level? RJ has more potential. That doesn't mean he'll have the better career, but it's a key point in any debate you have about who is the better prospect. I'm sure the Knicks will investigate every angle. At least I hope they will. I'll be disappointed if they decide to simply go with the guy who won the one on one game during workouts
"R.J., on the other hand, often looks lost in the woods when he gets into the paint, and it feels like he decides whether he’s going to pass or shoot before he starts his drives. "
" The thing that stands out most to me about Culver is his basketball I.Q. and feel for the game. It shows itself in almost everything he does on the floor, and there are tons of evidence with how much he played on-ball as the primary initiator for Texas Tech this season. It’s also one of the starkest differences between his game and R.J.’s."
"R.J., on the other hand, often looks lost in the woods when he gets into the paint, and it feels like he decides whether he’s going to pass or shoot before he starts his drives."
"Harley: Barrett will have more options at the next level for sure, and he has made some good reads this year (mostly out of a standstill and rarely on his drives), but he misses very basic opportunities to get better shots—multiple times per game—when he puts his head down."
"But when the game is on the line, things seem to slow down for Culver. Per @dribblehandoff: “Since the start of conference play, Culver has shot 56% from the field in clutch time (two-possession game and under five minutes). He accounts for 25% of Texas Tech’s overall points, yet 47% (!) of the Red Raiders’ points in clutch time.”
"Harley: Defense and I.Q. are the areas where the largest gaps between the two prospects lie for me. R.J. straight up does not try on defense. Almost not at all. It’s astonishing how little he seems to care on that end. Below is one clip from a thread of five plays from one SINGLE game in which Barrett gives up on a play the exact moment he gets beat. It’s really alarming."
Why do so many people on this board not appreciate high iq players and fall for the flashy athletic guys? I don't get it.
I prefer defense and IQ
if he's the better player we should draft him
And if we think he's the better player and we can get him lower than perhaps we do what Atl and Dallas did
WHAT WE SHOULD NOT DO: pass up on what we think is best for quantity. We won't have the opportunity to draft a stud (at least with higher probability chance of panning out) for a long time
fishmike@ 5/31/2019 2:02 PM
I thought Culver got exposed in the tourney. There is no way I look at Culver with RJ sitting there. RJ was the top rated player going into the year. That didnt really change, what happened was Zion and Ja really blew up. RJ did not disappoint. There is nothing not to like about RJ at 3. Literally nothing. This is about as no brainer as it gets for us
JrZyHuStLa@ 5/31/2019 3:13 PM
fishmike wrote:I thought Culver got exposed in the tourney. There is no way I look at Culver with RJ sitting there. RJ was the top rated player going into the year. That didnt really change, what happened was Zion and Ja really blew up. RJ did not disappoint. There is nothing not to like about RJ at 3. Literally nothing. This is about as no brainer as it gets for us
Agree. Don't get cute. take RJ. Anything else should just pertain to the Knicks just doing their homework and/or gauging market value.
