Knicks · Expectations for Next Season (page 3)
Vmart wrote:fishmike wrote:Vmart wrote:Lottery.
insightful as alwaysI’m being positive here.
I think the bigger question is who gets the most playing time and what will be the focus throughout the year. Get the whole we need to win to change perception idea but hope its not a year we try to wimd 35 games with guys that will be elsewhere in 2020.
Hoping we stay with the young core playing most and expanding on chemistry. Mitch, RJ, Smith, Frank, Randle, Iggy. With help from Trier amd Dot. Think getting 30 with that core would be more satisfying.
My opinion and hope now is that Fiz and FO will coach to win from the gate. Then abandon if not working and trade assets for picks. Then roll with young core to end of year. If thats the case I see 30 to 35 wins and added picks. Id be real happy with that after missing on the 2019 crop.
Nalod wrote:summer league is not a good indicator. Depends on what your looking at and thats for coaches to see.If we can win 34 games thats a double from last year. I know we all have our own arbitrary standards but I’m trying to stay grounded on reality. A double would be fantastic!!!
The progress of players is incremental so in a long season I expect fatigue and injuries to play a role as always.
How they deal with it is important. Knox finished strong last year. Says a lot.There is a lot of potential here. I suppose other teams have this too. Our division is not easy.
Face it, even without Kwahi Toronto is still a playoff team. Boston with Kemba-Tatum-Haywood core is still 48-50 wins good. PHilly should be a powerhouse and Brooklyn healthier with Kyrie is a 42+ win team.
I agree. Summer League is a good way to gauge how a player moves and reacts to near NBA speed. But as we saw with Knox and Frank last year, there's a huuuggggge jump from SL to real NBA games.
I see us winning 25-30 games. As last year showed, you need real vet's out there to lead by example. You can't have guys like Kanter and THJ talking to a guy like Trier about defense and unselfish play. Trier is going to laugh at them. I would.
Hit the open man.
Just not the one you expected, or that was hyped.
Perry had a Plan B, and Mills had his back. They have created the rudiments of a culture and player development. Brought in real talent to contribute to the incremental resuscitation of the franchise. Sean Marks is much farther ahead, but he’s got a year or two in Perry.
If the Knicks stay true to the plan, and they seem to be, then we need to show incremental but significant growth.
I think with big, athletic young pups like Randle and Portis, a PG on the rise like Payton, and solid vets like Gibson, Ellington and Bullock, we are adding real talent and a degree of professionalism.
I think New York fans are going to be very pleasantly surprised by Randle and Portis, whom I was campaigning for, in my insignificant way.
Why did we give Payton 8 million and Gibson 10 million when Mudiay, Vonleh, Kornet and Herzonja signed for minimum or low MCE.
Who is likely to have a better effect on Mitch and Knox than then TAJ?
Advantage GIBSON. Taj brings the Knicks something they have not had since Kurt Thomas. In terms of game, toughness and temperament. Oh, and DEFENSE.
I liked Mudiay, and how he grew, and I am thrilled he is on Utah for the minimum, as playing with Donovan Mitchell and Mike Conley will be fantastic for his continued growth curve.
Mudiay or Payton? Payton doles out more assists, is more efficient at getting to the rack, and a better defender. He will make Smith (who has a world of talent), and Frank (still finding his niche) play for their fucking lives.
Advantage PAYTON.
Kornet or PORTIS? Two stretch four/centers. Portis is a better 3-point shooter and rebounder, just tougher, more consistent, has greater experience and is way farther along. And I liked Kornet.
Advantage PORTIS.
Vonleh or RANDLE. Come on. I liked Noah, and what he gave us, bur Randle is a significant step up in talent, offensively, inside and out, better passer, better three point shooter, better rebounder, more physical presence. Vonleh was a good role player, and will contine to be. Randle has an opportunity to be SPECIAL.
Advantage RANDLE.
Herzonja or BULLOCK. I liked Mario and had a rooting interest, and I was proud of how he played the last month or so, but he was so up and down, so fucking inconsistent, and whereas Reggie shot close to 40% from trey, Mario was inexplicably around 25%, which is odd, seeing as how that is a strength. And while Mario showed some toughness on D against LeBron, Bullock is more the template for what the Knicks see going forward in RJ, least ways, in his tadpole stages, though James Harden/Kobe are what RJ suggest, aspires to. And Bullock is a tough defender, another area where RJ has to get to the next level.
Advantage BULLOCK.
Might just as well say Hardaway or Ellington. Wayne is a better three point shooter, and has carved out a specialist’s niche
Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.
-chip stern
Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.
Experience, no need to rush the Yutes
C: Portis
PF: Randle
SF: Bullock
SG: RJ Barrett
PG: Payton
misterearl wrote:-chip stern
I haven't heard that name in years, thanks for bringing him back
misterearl wrote:Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.Experience, no need to rush the Yutes
C: Portis
PF: Randle
SF: Bullock
SG: RJ Barrett
PG: Payton
Since there is no rush for the youth why even start RJ?
IF RJ and DSj can light it up in the guard position than maybe they can make the playoffs. That would be a bonus for this team this year. Experience is always good.
Vmart wrote:misterearl wrote:Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.Experience, no need to rush the Yutes
C: Portis
PF: Randle
SF: Bullock
SG: RJ Barrett
PG: Payton
Since there is no rush for the youth why even start RJ?
we have a better 2g than him?
I think that's actually a decent starting 5
knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:misterearl wrote:Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.Experience, no need to rush the Yutes
C: Portis
PF: Randle
SF: Bullock
SG: RJ Barrett
PG: Payton
Since there is no rush for the youth why even start RJ?
we have a better 2g than him?
I think that's actually a decent starting 5
Yeah Dotson. Since we are giving run to tenured players what has Barrett done right now Dotson is a much better player than RJ.
Vmart wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:misterearl wrote:Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.Experience, no need to rush the Yutes
C: Portis
PF: Randle
SF: Bullock
SG: RJ Barrett
PG: Payton
Since there is no rush for the youth why even start RJ?
we have a better 2g than him?
I think that's actually a decent starting 5
Yeah Dotson. Since we are giving run to tenured players what has Barrett done right now Dotson is a much better player than RJ.
RJ hasn't even suited up for a SL game and you are asking what has Barrett done right now?
martin wrote:Vmart wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:misterearl wrote:Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.Experience, no need to rush the Yutes
C: Portis
PF: Randle
SF: Bullock
SG: RJ Barrett
PG: Payton
Since there is no rush for the youth why even start RJ?
we have a better 2g than him?
I think that's actually a decent starting 5
Yeah Dotson. Since we are giving run to tenured players what has Barrett done right now Dotson is a much better player than RJ.
RJ hasn't even suited up for a SL game and you are asking what has Barrett done right now?
Martin you are jumping to conclusions on discussion. It’s what has Barrett done. Right now Dotson is a better player.
Vmart wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:misterearl wrote:Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.Experience, no need to rush the Yutes
C: Portis
PF: Randle
SF: Bullock
SG: RJ Barrett
PG: Payton
Since there is no rush for the youth why even start RJ?
we have a better 2g than him?
I think that's actually a decent starting 5
Yeah Dotson. Since we are giving run to tenured players what has Barrett done right now Dotson is a much better player than RJ.
To some degree your right, and that's not good either, because if we have to go through another yr of Fizdales 50 different rotations, it's going to lead to another tank yr.
Guys need to know their roles,and what kind of minutes they will get, that's extremely important to have any kind of consistency.
I can see fiz doing the same BS he did last season, sitting guys for several games to see how other guys play...
He may think that's motivation, but it's not, IMO it deflates the confidence of most young players, and we saw that with frank, knox and dotson.
knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:misterearl wrote:Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.Experience, no need to rush the Yutes
C: Portis
PF: Randle
SF: Bullock
SG: RJ Barrett
PG: Payton
Since there is no rush for the youth why even start RJ?
we have a better 2g than him?
I think that's actually a decent starting 5
Yeah Dotson. Since we are giving run to tenured players what has Barrett done right now Dotson is a much better player than RJ.
To some degree your right, and that's not good either, because if we have to go through another yr of Fizdales 50 different rotations, it's going to lead to another tank yr.
Guys need to know their roles,and what kind of minutes they will get, that's extremely important to have any kind of consistency.
I can see fiz doing the same BS he did last season, sitting guys for several games to see how other guys play...
He may think that's motivation, but it's not, IMO it deflates the confidence of most young players, and we saw that with frank, knox and dotson.
You have to go back to Miami and what they do. They are as bad at player development as are the Knicks. Sounds crazy right. But to the research in Miami and you will see very little in the development side.
misterearl wrote:Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.Experience, no need to rush the Yutes
C: Portis
PF: Randle
SF: Bullock
SG: RJ Barrett
PG: Payton
This might be the lineup, especially if they want to protect Robinson from the start. I think that Knox might be the wild card here. I know most are down on him, but he is a big part of the future and the team made sure to give him help in the offseason to work on many areas of his game. He could get the nod at SF if he has really improved.
Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.The only young guy I wanted to see get more minutes last year was Allen. Last year’s rookie minutes average, Mitch 21 a game, Zo 23 a game, Knox 28 a game. Based on that, what makes you think the Fiz kids are going to get less minutes? Also, competing for minutes isn’t a bad thing. Practicing with experienced pros that will lead in practice, in games and on the floor isn't a bad thing. Lance is a great vet but he is limited. Lee was limited last year. I am sure if Lee posted here he could make a strong argument that the Knicks emphasize youth and development. Kanter, and DJ
would echo that in my opinion.
martin wrote:Panos wrote:We have *1* player that could start on a playoff team, in Randle. The rest are role players or not there yet. Still scratching my head over Taj and Ellington signings. 25 wins. And that could be over-optimistic.Pretty sure Taj is there to help out Randle and Robinson with D, on the court and in the lockerroom.Don't know enough about Ellington but he would be an additional shooter.
I'm scratching my head over the price tag.
Not saying its likely, but if we dont get bit too hard by the injury bug. It doesnt end up being like the 2010 season where most of the vets we got retired during or after the season was over. The team has gelled by the All-Star break, we might at least be able to make a credible run.
Even if we just missed the playoffs, that still would be a step in the right direction. Some fans believe the Knicks can skip steps and build a contender. Go from cellar dwellar to champs in one big leap. Rarely works out that way. Years of prep work to take advantage of an opportunity is usually required.