Knicks · Vonleh to Wolves (page 2)

MS wrote:Portis for 15MM a year or Vonleh for 2MM.

This reminds me again when teams lost their minds and handed out stupid contract because of the escalating caps to Evan Turner, Alan Crabbe, etc. Lock in value when you can. The Knicks offseason is a fucking joke. These idiots overpaid a much of marginal journeyman.

Stay woke!!

Just because someone has a job doesn’t mean they can do a job..

There are three ways you can overpay a player: in salary, in years or in both. The worst of them? Anyone with the element of years there.

No denying many of those contracts have more salary than normal, but you fail to see that the most important aspect for a team to keep their flexibility is the years you are tied to them.

Randle has a team option on his third year. The rest? Team option in the second, so they are basically one-year deals with great potential to serve as trading assets because of that.

So to call the FO idiots and their effort a joke is to misplace those adjectives.

MS wrote:This reeks of letting Justin Holiday go and signing Ron Baker.

He played well for us last year and had some bright moments. Not to mention he’s still young. He would have been a nice guy to lock into a team friendly deal similar to KOQs first contract.

Just another reason why our signings were incompetent and rushed.

DeMarre Carol was also a signing we should have made instead of Bullock.

Don’t have a lot of faith in this plan they are executing.

I co-sign this post, especially this part: our signings were incompetent and rushed

Sambakick wrote:

MS wrote:This reeks of letting Justin Holiday go and signing Ron Baker.

He played well for us last year and had some bright moments. Not to mention he’s still young. He would have been a nice guy to lock into a team friendly deal similar to KOQs first contract.

Just another reason why our signings were incompetent and rushed.

DeMarre Carol was also a signing we should have made instead of Bullock.

Don’t have a lot of faith in this plan they are executing.

I co-sign this post, especially this part: our signings were incompetent and rushed

They are all one year deals apart from Randle who's 2 years. All are hard workers and good culture guys, and are better shooters than what we had. If they turn out to be trash, we just decline their second year option. If they pan out we can keep them or trade them at the deadline or next offseason (their contracts are excellent for trading). Perry did his home work all year, do you honestly thought they rushed this? Sheesh, can we quit with all the melodrama.

Knicksfan wrote:

MS wrote:Portis for 15MM a year or Vonleh for 2MM.

This reminds me again when teams lost their minds and handed out stupid contract because of the escalating caps to Evan Turner, Alan Crabbe, etc. Lock in value when you can. The Knicks offseason is a fucking joke. These idiots overpaid a much of marginal journeyman.

Stay woke!!

Just because someone has a job doesn’t mean they can do a job..

There are three ways you can overpay a player: in salary, in years or in both. The worst of them? Anyone with the element of years there.

No denying many of those contracts have more salary than normal, but you fail to see that the most important aspect for a team to keep their flexibility is the years you are tied to them.

Randle has a team option on his third year. The rest? Team option in the second, so they are basically one-year deals with great potential to serve as trading assets because of that.

So to call the FO idiots and their effort a joke is to misplace those adjectives.

Yeah I really could care less about overpaying on 1 year deals. I was even fine with the Hardaway contract on a 2 year deal. Where the Knicks screwed up was offering a 4 year contract. That was insane. This off-season did not go well but we didn't screw up our future at all.

Knicksfan wrote:

MS wrote:Portis for 15MM a year or Vonleh for 2MM.

This reminds me again when teams lost their minds and handed out stupid contract because of the escalating caps to Evan Turner, Alan Crabbe, etc. Lock in value when you can. The Knicks offseason is a fucking joke. These idiots overpaid a much of marginal journeyman.

Stay woke!!

Just because someone has a job doesn’t mean they can do a job..

There are three ways you can overpay a player: in salary, in years or in both. The worst of them? Anyone with the element of years there.

No denying many of those contracts have more salary than normal, but you fail to see that the most important aspect for a team to keep their flexibility is the years you are tied to them.

Randle has a team option on his third year. The rest? Team option in the second, so they are basically one-year deals with great potential to serve as trading assets because of that.

So to call the FO idiots and their effort a joke is to misplace those adjectives.

No sure I couldve said this any better.....

Jmpasq wrote:
Yeah I really could care less about overpaying on 1 year deals. I was even fine with the Hardaway contract on a 2 year deal. Where the Knicks screwed up was offering a 4 year contract. That was insane. This off-season did not go well but we didn't screw up our future at all.

Word. We needed a supporting cast for our young hopefuls. We now have NBA quality depth at all positions. If the young guys over-deliver on their development and we're ahead of schedule (ie challenging for an 8th seed spot), we'll keep rolling with our FA signings (Payton, Portis, Ellington, Bullock, Gibson). If by January we're already falling behind, they're useful assets for contenders on potentially expiring deals. The team is still prepared to tank.

I think the Knicks paid a little bit of a premium (particularly Portis and Randle) on year 1 of many of those deals, but I reckon part of that was to ensure they'd give us the team option on year 2 (or in the case of Randle, year 3).

I think a difference with our 2 big man signings vs the 2yr/$10 that a number of other big men received (including Kanter) is that both Portis (40% 3pt) and Randle (34% 3pt) can shoot the rock from outside.

Regarding Vonleh, surely the Knicks could have carved out some spare money at this price? In any case, I think both Portis is a better player - though is he $14m/yr better than Vonleh? If it means more wins, absolutely.

(We could say that JR Smith or THJr were both 90% the player that peak Kobe was... but that 10% is a big deal)

technomaster wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:
Yeah I really could care less about overpaying on 1 year deals. I was even fine with the Hardaway contract on a 2 year deal. Where the Knicks screwed up was offering a 4 year contract. That was insane. This off-season did not go well but we didn't screw up our future at all.

Word. We needed a supporting cast for our young hopefuls. We now have NBA quality depth at all positions. If the young guys over-deliver on their development and we're ahead of schedule (ie challenging for an 8th seed spot), we'll keep rolling with our FA signings (Payton, Portis, Ellington, Bullock, Gibson). If by January we're already falling behind, they're useful assets for contenders on potentially expiring deals. The team is still prepared to tank.

I think the Knicks paid a little bit of a premium (particularly Portis and Randle) on year 1 of many of those deals, but I reckon part of that was to ensure they'd give us the team option on year 2 (or in the case of Randle, year 3).

I think a difference with our 2 big man signings vs the 2yr/$10 that a number of other big men received (including Kanter) is that both Portis (40% 3pt) and Randle (34% 3pt) can shoot the rock from outside.

Regarding Vonleh, surely the Knicks could have carved out some spare money at this price? In any case, I think both Portis is a better player - though is he $14m/yr better than Vonleh? If it means more wins, absolutely.

(We could say that JR Smith or THJr were both 90% the player that peak Kobe was... but that 10% is a big deal)

Not bringing back Vonleh, Mario, Mudiay is a clear win for me (for me, same knucklehead play as KOQ and Kanter). All 3 guys don't have the mental make-up for both on court performance and most likely off court (getting better). I am hoping it was a clear, purposeful decision by Perry. Even Luke; nice guy with range but was he really ever on a path to be a backup on a playoff team? Not for me.

Interesting that Kadeem Allen is on the Summer league team even after the Knicks have Frank, DSJr, Elfrid Payton. I really liked Allen's play with the Knicks: 2-way player that has range on shot and gets into it on D.

Quite frankly, DSJr, Frank, DOT all have a LOT to prove this year and if they don't, see you later. For me, Knox gets this year and next to show what he has going on and he'll be tied to a short leash off the bench if it's the flailing play of last year.

Hopefully this is an indication of the decision making process that Knicks are now making.

martin wrote:

technomaster wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:
Yeah I really could care less about overpaying on 1 year deals. I was even fine with the Hardaway contract on a 2 year deal. Where the Knicks screwed up was offering a 4 year contract. That was insane. This off-season did not go well but we didn't screw up our future at all.

Word. We needed a supporting cast for our young hopefuls. We now have NBA quality depth at all positions. If the young guys over-deliver on their development and we're ahead of schedule (ie challenging for an 8th seed spot), we'll keep rolling with our FA signings (Payton, Portis, Ellington, Bullock, Gibson). If by January we're already falling behind, they're useful assets for contenders on potentially expiring deals. The team is still prepared to tank.

I think the Knicks paid a little bit of a premium (particularly Portis and Randle) on year 1 of many of those deals, but I reckon part of that was to ensure they'd give us the team option on year 2 (or in the case of Randle, year 3).

I think a difference with our 2 big man signings vs the 2yr/$10 that a number of other big men received (including Kanter) is that both Portis (40% 3pt) and Randle (34% 3pt) can shoot the rock from outside.

Regarding Vonleh, surely the Knicks could have carved out some spare money at this price? In any case, I think both Portis is a better player - though is he $14m/yr better than Vonleh? If it means more wins, absolutely.

(We could say that JR Smith or THJr were both 90% the player that peak Kobe was... but that 10% is a big deal)

Not bringing back Vonleh, Mario, Mudiay is a clear win for me (for me, same knucklehead play as KOQ and Kanter). All 3 guys don't have the mental make-up for both on court performance and most likely off court (getting better). I am hoping it was a clear, purposeful decision by Perry. Even Luke; nice guy with range but was he really ever on a path to be a backup on a playoff team? Not for me.

Interesting that Kadeem Allen is on the Summer league team even after the Knicks have Frank, DSJr, Elfrid Payton. I really liked Allen's play with the Knicks: 2-way player that has range on shot and gets into it on D.

Quite frankly, DSJr, Frank, DOT all have a LOT to prove this year and if they don't, see you later. For me, Knox gets this year and next to show what he has going on and he'll be tied to a short leash off the bench of it's the flailing play of last year.

Hopefully this is an indication of the decision making process that Knicks are now making.

Not as sold on Kadeem as you are. We've had plenty of guys look like future All-Stars playing meaningless minutes. Tony Douglas, Frank Williams... the list goes on. I'm hopeful Kadeem continues to show improvement. I agree with you that many of our young guys have a lot prove this season, except for maybe Dot. Dot has pretty much proven to be what we all think he is when he gets playing rime-a 3&D type. It remains to be seen if that fits with what team wants moving forward. The guy with most to prove is Fiz. He has decent, 25-30 win talent now. I'd like to see him walk the walk this season and implement this "positionless" BS he went on about last season.

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

technomaster wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:
Yeah I really could care less about overpaying on 1 year deals. I was even fine with the Hardaway contract on a 2 year deal. Where the Knicks screwed up was offering a 4 year contract. That was insane. This off-season did not go well but we didn't screw up our future at all.

Word. We needed a supporting cast for our young hopefuls. We now have NBA quality depth at all positions. If the young guys over-deliver on their development and we're ahead of schedule (ie challenging for an 8th seed spot), we'll keep rolling with our FA signings (Payton, Portis, Ellington, Bullock, Gibson). If by January we're already falling behind, they're useful assets for contenders on potentially expiring deals. The team is still prepared to tank.

I think the Knicks paid a little bit of a premium (particularly Portis and Randle) on year 1 of many of those deals, but I reckon part of that was to ensure they'd give us the team option on year 2 (or in the case of Randle, year 3).

I think a difference with our 2 big man signings vs the 2yr/$10 that a number of other big men received (including Kanter) is that both Portis (40% 3pt) and Randle (34% 3pt) can shoot the rock from outside.

Regarding Vonleh, surely the Knicks could have carved out some spare money at this price? In any case, I think both Portis is a better player - though is he $14m/yr better than Vonleh? If it means more wins, absolutely.

(We could say that JR Smith or THJr were both 90% the player that peak Kobe was... but that 10% is a big deal)

Not bringing back Vonleh, Mario, Mudiay is a clear win for me (for me, same knucklehead play as KOQ and Kanter). All 3 guys don't have the mental make-up for both on court performance and most likely off court (getting better). I am hoping it was a clear, purposeful decision by Perry. Even Luke; nice guy with range but was he really ever on a path to be a backup on a playoff team? Not for me.

Interesting that Kadeem Allen is on the Summer league team even after the Knicks have Frank, DSJr, Elfrid Payton. I really liked Allen's play with the Knicks: 2-way player that has range on shot and gets into it on D.

Quite frankly, DSJr, Frank, DOT all have a LOT to prove this year and if they don't, see you later. For me, Knox gets this year and next to show what he has going on and he'll be tied to a short leash off the bench of it's the flailing play of last year.

Hopefully this is an indication of the decision making process that Knicks are now making.

Not as sold on Kadeem as you are. We've had plenty of guys look like future All-Stars playing meaningless minutes. Tony Douglas, Frank Williams... the list goes on. I'm hopeful Kadeem continues to show improvement. I agree with you that many of our young guys have a lot prove this season, except for maybe Dot. Dot has pretty much proven to be what we all think he is when he gets playing rime-a 3&D type. It remains to be seen if that fits with what team wants moving forward. The guy with most to prove is Fiz. He has decent, 25-30 win talent now. I'd like to see him walk the walk this season and implement this "positionless" BS he went on about last season.

For me DOT progressed last year but didn't show enough to be proven. Lots of ups and downs. His eFG% was nothing to write home about; he shot 46% from inside the arc and 37% at the 3pt line is good but nothing special. He would have great games and then games where he couldn't find the rim. His on ball D is decent but he gets back-doored repeatedly - he has a lot to prove as far as a team defender.

BigDaddyG wrote:Not as sold on Kadeem as you are. We've had plenty of guys look like future All-Stars playing meaningless minutes. Tony Douglas, Frank Williams... the list goes on. I'm hopeful Kadeem continues to show improvement. I agree with you that many of our young guys have a lot prove this season, except for maybe Dot. Dot has pretty much proven to be what we all think he is when he gets playing rime-a 3&D type. It remains to be seen if that fits with what team wants moving forward. The guy with most to prove is Fiz. He has decent, 25-30 win talent now. I'd like to see him walk the walk this season and implement this "positionless" BS he went on about last season.

Heh. Toure Murry. Chasson Randle.

technomaster wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Not as sold on Kadeem as you are. We've had plenty of guys look like future All-Stars playing meaningless minutes. Tony Douglas, Frank Williams... the list goes on. I'm hopeful Kadeem continues to show improvement. I agree with you that many of our young guys have a lot prove this season, except for maybe Dot. Dot has pretty much proven to be what we all think he is when he gets playing rime-a 3&D type. It remains to be seen if that fits with what team wants moving forward. The guy with most to prove is Fiz. He has decent, 25-30 win talent now. I'd like to see him walk the walk this season and implement this "positionless" BS he went on about last season.

Heh. Toure Murry. Chasson Randle.

Can’t forget about Langston Galloway or Alexey Shevd. I like Kadeem’s defense a lot though