Knicks · The Good Thing About These Moves is We Now Will See if Fizdale Can Coach (page 1)

The good thing about the Knicks moves is that it is clear the team is done tanking. While we would be happy to get a lottery pick in the next draft, the best thing for the development of this team is pushing for the playoffs. These kids need to grow up and fight for a real goal (not just ping pong balls). Thus, Fizdale needs to coach this team up. I, for one, believe that Fizdale is a good coach. The youngins last year were not ready and Fiz was forced to play them more then he should. This year, he has real veterans with proven skills, and guys like Knox and Mitchell now have a year under their belt and should come in more ready to play. A good coach should be able to get this team to 31-36 wins. A great coach should be able to get them to 40 wins and into the playoffs. The talent is there. It is just about team play and effort and defense. So we should know by the end of the year whether Fiz has what it takes to get this team over the hump. Unless there is an usual rash of injuries to key players, there is no reason this team does not reach at least 30 wins.

ITs a very reasonable expectation with this roster.

I agree- 31-36 wins is the aim, both to show improvement and because it seemed to be the sweet spot for moving up in the draft lottery- we need one more top 3 pick to finally have a foundation to build on.

This is why I hope Fiz sets a different tone by shaping a starting lineup and sticking to it. Last year the dynamic with the roster didn't help many of the players.

Last year was an open audition to determine who could play.

This season, the upgrades will be on a two year review that starts with summer league

Our three year process is in year two.

Knicksfan wrote:This is why I hope Fiz sets a different tone by shaping a starting lineup and sticking to it. Last year the dynamic with the roster didn't help many of the players.

misterearl wrote:Last year was an open audition to determine who could play.

This season, the upgrades will be on a two year review that starts with summer league

Our three year process is in year two.

Knicksfan wrote:This is why I hope Fiz sets a different tone by shaping a starting lineup and sticking to it. Last year the dynamic with the roster didn't help many of the players.

Couldn't have said it any better...

Knicksfan wrote:This is why I hope Fiz sets a different tone by shaping a starting lineup and sticking to it. Last year the dynamic with the roster didn't help many of the players.

Thats wishful thinking, but not realistic when you have a major overhaul like we have. And rookies / sophmores still learning the nba. There will be similar changes to the starting lineup as last year, just a little more solid, we hope. But Fitz is in a tough position. Each guy we added could start or come off the bench.

The other good thing about these moves is Perry / Mills took it back to the old school knicks. Listen to Elfrid Payton below:

What message would you give to Knicks fans who are upset right now after missing out on the big-name free agents? Elfrid Payton:

Just sit back and watch, man. They’ll grow to love this group of guys. It’s totally natural to feel some type of way when you miss out on guys like Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving, but I think they’re going to grow to love this group. I feel we embody what New York basketball was about back in the day – just being grimy, tough guys who play with a chip on their shoulder and have something to prove.

blkexec wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:This is why I hope Fiz sets a different tone by shaping a starting lineup and sticking to it. Last year the dynamic with the roster didn't help many of the players.

Thats wishful thinking, but not realistic when you have a major overhaul like we have. And rookies / sophmores still learning the nba. There will be similar changes to the starting lineup as last year, just a little more solid, we hope. But Fitz is in a tough position. Each guy we added could start or come off the bench.

The other good thing about these moves is Perry / Mills took it back to the old school knicks. Listen to Elfrid Payton below:

What message would you give to Knicks fans who are upset right now after missing out on the big-name free agents? Elfrid Payton:

Just sit back and watch, man. They’ll grow to love this group of guys. It’s totally natural to feel some type of way when you miss out on guys like Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving, but I think they’re going to grow to love this group. I feel we embody what New York basketball was about back in the day – just being grimy, tough guys who play with a chip on their shoulder and have something to prove.

I love Payton. That is who I hoped they would get instead of Mudiay. I think he is going to win the starting job. Hopefully, Fiz can teach him how to shoot. Mudiay got better as a shooter under Fiz. If he can do the same thing with Payton, we will have a solid starting PG. (same with Smith, who is also a consistent jumpshot away from being a solid pg). Only difference is Payton plays better defense and is a better floor general

TheGame wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:This is why I hope Fiz sets a different tone by shaping a starting lineup and sticking to it. Last year the dynamic with the roster didn't help many of the players.

Thats wishful thinking, but not realistic when you have a major overhaul like we have. And rookies / sophmores still learning the nba. There will be similar changes to the starting lineup as last year, just a little more solid, we hope. But Fitz is in a tough position. Each guy we added could start or come off the bench.

The other good thing about these moves is Perry / Mills took it back to the old school knicks. Listen to Elfrid Payton below:

What message would you give to Knicks fans who are upset right now after missing out on the big-name free agents? Elfrid Payton:

Just sit back and watch, man. They’ll grow to love this group of guys. It’s totally natural to feel some type of way when you miss out on guys like Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving, but I think they’re going to grow to love this group. I feel we embody what New York basketball was about back in the day – just being grimy, tough guys who play with a chip on their shoulder and have something to prove.

I love Payton. That is who I hoped they would get instead of Mudiay. I think he is going to win the starting job. Hopefully, Fiz can teach him how to shoot. Mudiay got better as a shooter under Fiz. If he can do the same thing with Payton, we will have a solid starting PG. (same with Smith, who is also a consistent jumpshot away from being a solid pg). Only difference is Payton plays better defense and is a better floor general

Fiz can only give these guys an opportunity. Players themselves need to work on things like shooting. Hire a trainer, put in the hours.

misterearl wrote:Last year was an open audition to determine who could play.

To be fair to Fizdale, lots of guys hunting for contracts just went rogue on him.

They were looking to drive their stats as they knew the Knicks wouldn't resign them, any form of team play be damned.

TripleThreat wrote:

misterearl wrote:Last year was an open audition to determine who could play.

To be fair to Fizdale, lots of guys hunting for contracts just went rogue on him.

They were looking to drive their stats as they knew the Knicks wouldn't resign them, any form of team play be damned.

We could see a repeat of that w the flexible deals

Guys will need to buy in and want to be a Knick

I’m also curious as to who you think went rogue. Mudiay?

Chandler wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

misterearl wrote:Last year was an open audition to determine who could play.

To be fair to Fizdale, lots of guys hunting for contracts just went rogue on him.

They were looking to drive their stats as they knew the Knicks wouldn't resign them, any form of team play be damned.

We could see a repeat of that w the flexible deals

Guys will need to buy in and want to be a Knick

I’m also curious as to who you think went rogue. Mudiay?

Trey Burke definitely went rogue. Mudiay didn't know any better.

we already no for sure fizdale is a huge fraud with no coaching chops whatsoever

but yes, with this roster it will be obvious to all.

i hope he gets fired

Sangfroid wrote:

Chandler wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

misterearl wrote:Last year was an open audition to determine who could play.

To be fair to Fizdale, lots of guys hunting for contracts just went rogue on him.

They were looking to drive their stats as they knew the Knicks wouldn't resign them, any form of team play be damned.

We could see a repeat of that w the flexible deals

Guys will need to buy in and want to be a Knick

I’m also curious as to who you think went rogue. Mudiay?

Trey Burke definitely went rogue. Mudiay didn't know any better.

Not sure on this, because from the beginning of SL, we saw guys like Trier and Knox being given the freedom to pretty much do what they wanted with the ball.

Some here seem to give Fizdale a pass on developing an offensive scheme...saying he was looking at what players could do, but how the F do you know what players can do in your scheme if you really aren't pushing it on them.

I believe you can make a case, and no, it isn't the only reason we struck out of level A free agents, that not seeing the team play together that well and not seeing much progress in integrating players into a system, was a turnoff for people like Durant or Irving?

Look at what Kenny Atkinson did with the Nets. They bought into what he wanted. Even if you the Knicks didn't win last year, FAs looking at us from the outside would have seen growth, not just a few talented players participating in amateur hour.

CleaverGreene wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

Chandler wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

misterearl wrote:Last year was an open audition to determine who could play.

To be fair to Fizdale, lots of guys hunting for contracts just went rogue on him.

They were looking to drive their stats as they knew the Knicks wouldn't resign them, any form of team play be damned.

We could see a repeat of that w the flexible deals

Guys will need to buy in and want to be a Knick

I’m also curious as to who you think went rogue. Mudiay?

Trey Burke definitely went rogue. Mudiay didn't know any better.

Not sure on this, because from the beginning of SL, we saw guys like Trier and Knox being given the freedom to pretty much do what they wanted with the ball.

Some here seem to give Fizdale a pass on developing an offensive scheme...saying he was looking at what players could do, but how the F do you know what players can do in your scheme if you really aren't pushing it on them.

I believe you can make a case, and no, it isn't the only reason we struck out of level A free agents, that not seeing the team play together that well and not seeing much progress in integrating players into a system, was a turnoff for people like Durant or Irving?

Look at what Kenny Atkinson did with the Nets. They bought into what he wanted. Even if you the Knicks didn't win last year, FAs looking at us from the outside would have seen growth, not just a few talented players participating in amateur hour.

Well.. thus the title of this thread. Its certainly appeared that the FO and coaching staff were on the same page last year, and the result was 17 wins. I am pretty sure that was by design.

fishmike wrote:

CleaverGreene wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

Chandler wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

misterearl wrote:Last year was an open audition to determine who could play.

To be fair to Fizdale, lots of guys hunting for contracts just went rogue on him.

They were looking to drive their stats as they knew the Knicks wouldn't resign them, any form of team play be damned.

We could see a repeat of that w the flexible deals

Guys will need to buy in and want to be a Knick

I’m also curious as to who you think went rogue. Mudiay?

Trey Burke definitely went rogue. Mudiay didn't know any better.

Not sure on this, because from the beginning of SL, we saw guys like Trier and Knox being given the freedom to pretty much do what they wanted with the ball.

Some here seem to give Fizdale a pass on developing an offensive scheme...saying he was looking at what players could do, but how the F do you know what players can do in your scheme if you really aren't pushing it on them.

I believe you can make a case, and no, it isn't the only reason we struck out of level A free agents, that not seeing the team play together that well and not seeing much progress in integrating players into a system, was a turnoff for people like Durant or Irving?

Look at what Kenny Atkinson did with the Nets. They bought into what he wanted. Even if you the Knicks didn't win last year, FAs looking at us from the outside would have seen growth, not just a few talented players participating in amateur hour.

Well.. thus the title of this thread. Its certainly appeared that the FO and coaching staff were on the same page last year, and the result was 17 wins. I am pretty sure that was by design.

which begs the question if that was such a good design why not do it again?

To the original post, there's an ancient Chinese proverb about being careful what you wish for...

CleaverGreene wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

Chandler wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

misterearl wrote:Last year was an open audition to determine who could play.

To be fair to Fizdale, lots of guys hunting for contracts just went rogue on him.

They were looking to drive their stats as they knew the Knicks wouldn't resign them, any form of team play be damned.

We could see a repeat of that w the flexible deals

Guys will need to buy in and want to be a Knick

I’m also curious as to who you think went rogue. Mudiay?

Trey Burke definitely went rogue. Mudiay didn't know any better.

Not sure on this, because from the beginning of SL, we saw guys like Trier and Knox being given the freedom to pretty much do what they wanted with the ball.

Some here seem to give Fizdale a pass on developing an offensive scheme...saying he was looking at what players could do, but how the F do you know what players can do in your scheme if you really aren't pushing it on them.

I believe you can make a case, and no, it isn't the only reason we struck out of level A free agents, that not seeing the team play together that well and not seeing much progress in integrating players into a system, was a turnoff for people like Durant or Irving?

Look at what Kenny Atkinson did with the Nets. They bought into what he wanted. Even if you the Knicks didn't win last year, FAs looking at us from the outside would have seen growth, not just a few talented players participating in amateur hour.

Atkinson was 20 & 62 his first year and 28 and 54 his second year. He didn't hit the ground running either...It takes time and talent.

Uptown wrote:

CleaverGreene wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

Chandler wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

misterearl wrote:Last year was an open audition to determine who could play.

To be fair to Fizdale, lots of guys hunting for contracts just went rogue on him.

They were looking to drive their stats as they knew the Knicks wouldn't resign them, any form of team play be damned.

We could see a repeat of that w the flexible deals

Guys will need to buy in and want to be a Knick

I’m also curious as to who you think went rogue. Mudiay?

Trey Burke definitely went rogue. Mudiay didn't know any better.

Not sure on this, because from the beginning of SL, we saw guys like Trier and Knox being given the freedom to pretty much do what they wanted with the ball.

Some here seem to give Fizdale a pass on developing an offensive scheme...saying he was looking at what players could do, but how the F do you know what players can do in your scheme if you really aren't pushing it on them.

I believe you can make a case, and no, it isn't the only reason we struck out of level A free agents, that not seeing the team play together that well and not seeing much progress in integrating players into a system, was a turnoff for people like Durant or Irving?

Look at what Kenny Atkinson did with the Nets. They bought into what he wanted. Even if you the Knicks didn't win last year, FAs looking at us from the outside would have seen growth, not just a few talented players participating in amateur hour.

Atkinson was 20 & 62 his first year and 28 and 54 his second year. He didn't hit the ground running either...It takes time and talent.

This. Atkinson and Marks are on the same page. Fiz and Perry/Mills are on the same page. Other than Woodson Grunwald and Phil/Rambis the Knicks haven’t had that.

Uptown wrote:

CleaverGreene wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

Chandler wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

misterearl wrote:Last year was an open audition to determine who could play.

To be fair to Fizdale, lots of guys hunting for contracts just went rogue on him.

They were looking to drive their stats as they knew the Knicks wouldn't resign them, any form of team play be damned.

We could see a repeat of that w the flexible deals

Guys will need to buy in and want to be a Knick

I’m also curious as to who you think went rogue. Mudiay?

Trey Burke definitely went rogue. Mudiay didn't know any better.

Not sure on this, because from the beginning of SL, we saw guys like Trier and Knox being given the freedom to pretty much do what they wanted with the ball.

Some here seem to give Fizdale a pass on developing an offensive scheme...saying he was looking at what players could do, but how the F do you know what players can do in your scheme if you really aren't pushing it on them.

I believe you can make a case, and no, it isn't the only reason we struck out of level A free agents, that not seeing the team play together that well and not seeing much progress in integrating players into a system, was a turnoff for people like Durant or Irving?

Look at what Kenny Atkinson did with the Nets. They bought into what he wanted. Even if you the Knicks didn't win last year, FAs looking at us from the outside would have seen growth, not just a few talented players participating in amateur hour.

Atkinson was 20 & 62 his first year and 28 and 54 his second year. He didn't hit the ground running either...It takes time and talent.

You can have limited talent and still show indications that:
1) you are teaching a system
2) players buy into that system
3) you understand how to develop young players

There were actually moments when Hornacek's Knicks seemed to be running the hated Triangle, and you could actually see them doing it, even if you didn't like it.

Fizdale can get a pass for last year, I suppose, but I need to see something more than him benefiting from the Knicks having a greater pool of talent this season.

Will he actually coach, or just take credit for the fact that the team is playing better because we have more talent this year than last?

Actually, looking at all the other teams rosters, we're right near the bottom (can you honestly name 5 teams who are clearly worse than us?)- 30 games is a stretch

smackeddog wrote:Actually, looking at all the other teams rosters, we're right near the bottom (can you honestly name 5 teams who are clearly worse than us?)- 30 games is a stretch

Nola won 33 last year with randle Jrue and AD

We suck ass right now