Knicks · A Guard Shall Lead Them (page 1)
“Payton claimed he had many options in free agency, but decided on the Knicks because of playing time. He may be at the top of the pecking order of point guards for Fizdale. Although Payton is a better passer and rebounder in the short term, investing more minutes in Smith is the best move for the franchise. Smith was the main player-asset netted in the Kristaps Porzingis trade, and has spent the summer working out with Chris Paul and reworking his shot. Don’t leave him on the bench.”
-Lawrence Scotti, Knicks Wall
Payton or Smith?
DSjr has exciting potential. Payton is a better version of Mudiay. Frank i8s a neophyte. Is it his time to blossom?
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CrushAlot wrote:It should be Smith. Saw this breakdown of his game last night I n twitter.Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/btruetolife/status/1151507741040631809?s=21
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It should've been Ron Baker, but it's too late. I'm seeing that the Nets want to sign him now. After that, I have to lean with Payton until DSJ shows me something in camp. Same with Frank. Payton is vet and he's the only whose shown he can run a team with some form of consistency. We're going to need that if Fiz brings back last year's offensive system.
You have to be realistic in judging what you see. Payton finished the season great. He outplayed Fox in the season finale. His offense is underrated and what he really does exceptionally well, and why I think he starts is he sets up bigs for easy shots. Whether he is running simple plays or just attacking the paint and waiting for the perfect moment to float one over the collapsing defenders for easy scores for other players.
As for Frank/DSjr/Payton it will be an interesting stretch. I like all 3. I think all 3 have great upside with Payton likely having the lowest ceiling. I think Payton can be similar to Dre Miller. Not the best shooter but a big guy who can bang some, play in traffic and is very crafty looking for teammates. What I like about Payton is when he's dribbling the bigs all move because they know they can get the ball. Creates a nice flow.
I have no idea. I just dont know how these guys will look in training camp and preseason. Hopefully for Fizdale the player position battles are won clearly and we dont start with a lot of tension.
I think you do whatever you can to start winning games, even if that means starting with 8 guys and mostly vets. Some of the young guys are going to play, but its going to be the ones playing best. I would treat Dotson as a vet and hope he's healthy.
Also it looks like Dotson will be ready by training camp:
https://nypost.com/2019/06/27/why-damyea...
I think Payton wins the starting job along with a mostly vets. DSjr will get bigger role than a regular backup unless he really struggles. God forbid Frank has a great camp/preseason and confuses things more. Time will tell... but until we see them gel (or not gel) in camp/preseason I think it looks something like this:
G: Payton/Dotson
F: Morris/Randle
C: Mitch
And you have DSjr, RJ, Knox, Portis, Trier, Frank, Ellington, Iggy.... these guys are not all playing, and that is OK.
I think that starting line up our best mix out of the gate. Its light on shooting but Morris/Randle/Dotson all have good range. How well they shoot the 3 will dictate a lot of early Ws and Ls. That being said you have a really good player in Morris who would be the 2nd scorer behind Randle. I think you feature Randle in the high post and run the P&R with Payton and Mitch. You can run tons of stuff and simple quick ISOs for Morris. That group has some balance of scoring, size, defense, rebounding and rim protection.
Let the bench mob sort themselves.
IDEAL: is Fizdale shows some reasonable coaching chops, gets this group playing hard and we can package some of these 1+1s for a guy who was signed that isnt working. DRussell is the obvious example but you just never know.
fishmike wrote:Bottom line is its crowded and on paper there isnt much separating these guys. I think Payton is probably regarded as the lowest on the raw talent side but I am not sure that is fair and I think he is going to be VERY tough to beat out for the starting role.You have to be realistic in judging what you see. Payton finished the season great. He outplayed Fox in the season finale. His offense is underrated and what he really does exceptionally well, and why I think he starts is he sets up bigs for easy shots. Whether he is running simple plays or just attacking the paint and waiting for the perfect moment to float one over the collapsing defenders for easy scores for other players.
As for Frank/DSjr/Payton it will be an interesting stretch. I like all 3. I think all 3 have great upside with Payton likely having the lowest ceiling. I think Payton can be similar to Dre Miller. Not the best shooter but a big guy who can bang some, play in traffic and is very crafty looking for teammates. What I like about Payton is when he's dribbling the bigs all move because they know they can get the ball. Creates a nice flow.
I have no idea. I just dont know how these guys will look in training camp and preseason. Hopefully for Fizdale the player position battles are won clearly and we dont start with a lot of tension.
I think you do whatever you can to start winning games, even if that means starting with 8 guys and mostly vets. Some of the young guys are going to play, but its going to be the ones playing best. I would treat Dotson as a vet and hope he's healthy.
Also it looks like Dotson will be ready by training camp:
https://nypost.com/2019/06/27/why-damyea...I think Payton wins the starting job along with a mostly vets. DSjr will get bigger role than a regular backup unless he really struggles. God forbid Frank has a great camp/preseason and confuses things more. Time will tell... but until we see them gel (or not gel) in camp/preseason I think it looks something like this:
G: Payton/Dotson
F: Morris/Randle
C: Mitch
And you have DSjr, RJ, Knox, Portis, Trier, Frank, Ellington, Iggy.... these guys are not all playing, and that is OK.I think that starting line up our best mix out of the gate. Its light on shooting but Morris/Randle/Dotson all have good range. How well they shoot the 3 will dictate a lot of early Ws and Ls. That being said you have a really good player in Morris who would be the 2nd scorer behind Randle. I think you feature Randle in the high post and run the P&R with Payton and Mitch. You can run tons of stuff and simple quick ISOs for Morris. That group has some balance of scoring, size, defense, rebounding and rim protection.
Let the bench mob sort themselves.
IDEAL: is Fizdale shows some reasonable coaching chops, gets this group playing hard and we can package some of these 1+1s for a guy who was signed that isnt working. DRussell is the obvious example but you just never know.
I'm not thrilled with the Morris signing, but I'm not going to pretend that it was the worst possible outcome. The good thing is that Morris and Randle are pretty interchangeable in terms of their oncourt positioning, While Randle isn't the best defender, especially protecting the rim, the word is that he moves his feet pretty decently on the perimeter. I'm not sure about Morris's defensive chops at the three anymore, but he seems to be able to body and defend bigger forwards pretty decently. Maybe with Mitchell's maturity we can prevent our frontcourt from being the crap show it was last year. I doubt it, but there's hope. We could also handcuff Portis to Taj to minimize his lack of defense. It will be tough if Knox doesn't show any improvement. This has the makings of a competitive squad that could reach 30 wins. Fans need to be patient and understand this is what a rebuild looks like.
Payton-Barrett-Morris-Randle-Robinson: At 36% from Barrett-Morris-Randle would provide quality spacing for heavy PNR for Payton & Robinson to operate. With Payton being the featured ball carrier.
Payton-Barrett-Morris-Randle-Portis: Heavy PNR with Payton & Randle with Portis providing optimal floor spacing. Payton still featured ball carrier.
Smith-Barrett-Morris-Randle-Robinson: Would allow for Barrett & Randle to handle more point forward duties and hold higher usages, as well as same PNR options as with Payton.
Smith-Barrett-Morris-Randle-Portis: Again all dependent on guys hitting threes at a 36% clip. Heavy Smith and Randle PNR with Barrett & Randle both getting opportunities at point forward.
PG-Trey Burke (33 games) were never given a lineup or a chance to lead the point receiving 20 minute of spot-minute per game.
PG-Frank Ntilikina (43 games) performing at multi-position in different lineup & rotation from the previous game, plus the 21 minute of spot-playing time each game at multi-position never gave Frank a chance to lead the point, or get on the same-page having two individual Iso-guards and two Iso SF having poor passing-skills (Timmy/Trier & Knox/Mario).
PG-DSJr let to many Iso-opponents score on him for a quick 2 points at will .. We have to give DSJr plenty of minute at the start of the season to save-face for the KP trade SMH !!!
At the moment none of our candidate shoot well. That’s going to make things harder on the teammates
I hope that one or more of the guys has improved since last season
Frank and Payton can guard well which IMO is critical
DSJ at times makes the game seem so easy. If he develops a shot he will have a real impact on offense. I like to see those athletes contribute on D too though or I get real grumpy
Chandler wrote:Floor spacing starts at the pointAt the moment none of our candidate shoot well. That’s going to make things harder on the teammates
I hope that one or more of the guys has improved since last season
Frank and Payton can guard well which IMO is critical
DSJ at times makes the game seem so easy. If he develops a shot he will have a real impact on offense. I like to see those athletes contribute on D too though or I get real grumpy
It’s why I ultimately see all of our PGs as backups. Smith can be a great 6th man. Payton will be an above average backup for the next 8 years. We need a PG that can shoot. This experimenting at PG this year will ultimately be another stopgap at the position. The good news is I feel we have a great piece and future starter at every other position. But PG continues to be the downfall here because every regime refuses to prioritize shooting at a position where all of the best teams have a floor spacing lead guard. Toronto has 2 of them, both free agents this summer. Let’s grab one of them.
“...when healthy, Payton Jr. has been productive for New Orleans, averaging career highs of 7.4 assists and 5.4 rebounds per game despite his lowest usage rate since his rookie season. Payton Jr. trails only LeBron James in assists per game since the All-Star break (9.1 to 9.5). He’s also averaging career highs in 3-point attempts per game (2.3) and free throw percentage (.730). The 25-year-old credits coming home, offseason weight training and a healthy diet for his improvement.”
misterearl wrote:In 2014, Elfrid Payton Received the Lefty Driesell Award as the National College Defensive Player of the Year.“...when healthy, Payton Jr. has been productive for New Orleans, averaging career highs of 7.4 assists and 5.4 rebounds per game despite his lowest usage rate since his rookie season. Payton Jr. trails only LeBron James in assists per game since the All-Star break (9.1 to 9.5). He’s also averaging career highs in 3-point attempts per game (2.3) and free throw percentage (.730). The 25-year-old credits coming home, offseason weight training and a healthy diet for his improvement.”
This is why I think Elfrid will start over DSJr unless something dramatic happens. Defense and organizing and offense with the first unit.
martin wrote:misterearl wrote:In 2014, Elfrid Payton Received the Lefty Driesell Award as the National College Defensive Player of the Year.“...when healthy, Payton Jr. has been productive for New Orleans, averaging career highs of 7.4 assists and 5.4 rebounds per game despite his lowest usage rate since his rookie season. Payton Jr. trails only LeBron James in assists per game since the All-Star break (9.1 to 9.5). He’s also averaging career highs in 3-point attempts per game (2.3) and free throw percentage (.730). The 25-year-old credits coming home, offseason weight training and a healthy diet for his improvement.”
This is why I think Elfrid will start over DSJr unless something dramatic happens. Defense and organizing and offense with the first unit.
If he can get his 3pt shot continuing in the right direction it will be a game changer.
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:misterearl wrote:In 2014, Elfrid Payton Received the Lefty Driesell Award as the National College Defensive Player of the Year.“...when healthy, Payton Jr. has been productive for New Orleans, averaging career highs of 7.4 assists and 5.4 rebounds per game despite his lowest usage rate since his rookie season. Payton Jr. trails only LeBron James in assists per game since the All-Star break (9.1 to 9.5). He’s also averaging career highs in 3-point attempts per game (2.3) and free throw percentage (.730). The 25-year-old credits coming home, offseason weight training and a healthy diet for his improvement.”
This is why I think Elfrid will start over DSJr unless something dramatic happens. Defense and organizing and offense with the first unit.
If he can get his 3pt shot continuing in the right direction it will be a game changer.
Yeah. Any type of shooting
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:misterearl wrote:In 2014, Elfrid Payton Received the Lefty Driesell Award as the National College Defensive Player of the Year.“...when healthy, Payton Jr. has been productive for New Orleans, averaging career highs of 7.4 assists and 5.4 rebounds per game despite his lowest usage rate since his rookie season. Payton Jr. trails only LeBron James in assists per game since the All-Star break (9.1 to 9.5). He’s also averaging career highs in 3-point attempts per game (2.3) and free throw percentage (.730). The 25-year-old credits coming home, offseason weight training and a healthy diet for his improvement.”
This is why I think Elfrid will start over DSJr unless something dramatic happens. Defense and organizing and offense with the first unit.
If he can get his 3pt shot continuing in the right direction it will be a game changer.
Yeah. Any type of shooting
The improvement as a free throw shooter is encouraging at least.