technomaster wrote:I think he looked solid enough - didn't embarrass himself on the floor, set up his teammates for some scrappy assists. (I think he had 6 total, leading the team)Sort of like watching someone like Shaun Livingston coming off the bench with the Warriors. Played within himself and put in solid minutes off the bench.
That sounds fine until you consider he's a mid-lottery pick. There are probably at least five players drafted behind him who are significantly more productive going into year three. I don't think drafting a decent rotation role-player that high was the design.
Welpee wrote:technomaster wrote:I think he looked solid enough - didn't embarrass himself on the floor, set up his teammates for some scrappy assists. (I think he had 6 total, leading the team)Sort of like watching someone like Shaun Livingston coming off the bench with the Warriors. Played within himself and put in solid minutes off the bench.
That sounds fine until you consider he's a mid-lottery pick. There are probably at least five players drafted behind him who are significantly more productive going into year three. I don't think drafting a decent rotation role-player that high was the design.
I think there are easily 10 guys. Just looked back at that draft. Frank was a bad pick at 8.
CrushAlot wrote:Welpee wrote:technomaster wrote:I think he looked solid enough - didn't embarrass himself on the floor, set up his teammates for some scrappy assists. (I think he had 6 total, leading the team)Sort of like watching someone like Shaun Livingston coming off the bench with the Warriors. Played within himself and put in solid minutes off the bench.
That sounds fine until you consider he's a mid-lottery pick. There are probably at least five players drafted behind him who are significantly more productive going into year three. I don't think drafting a decent rotation role-player that high was the design.
I think there are easily 10 guys. Just looked back at that draft. Frank was a bad pick at 8.
easy to say now. If he becomes what he was drafted for most certainly not.
fishmike wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Welpee wrote:technomaster wrote:I think he looked solid enough - didn't embarrass himself on the floor, set up his teammates for some scrappy assists. (I think he had 6 total, leading the team)Sort of like watching someone like Shaun Livingston coming off the bench with the Warriors. Played within himself and put in solid minutes off the bench.
That sounds fine until you consider he's a mid-lottery pick. There are probably at least five players drafted behind him who are significantly more productive going into year three. I don't think drafting a decent rotation role-player that high was the design.
I think there are easily 10 guys. Just looked back at that draft. Frank was a bad pick at 8.
easy to say now. If he becomes what he was drafted for most certainly not.
But here's the thing, looking back to that draft and what the experts were forecasting about Frank, I don't think anybody projected him as a future all-star. There are at least five players drafted behind him you can envision one day being an all-star. At this point we're just hoping Frank can become a contributing player on a good team. If that is all the Knicks were expecting with that 8th pick they should've traded it.
Welpee wrote:fishmike wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Welpee wrote:technomaster wrote:I think he looked solid enough - didn't embarrass himself on the floor, set up his teammates for some scrappy assists. (I think he had 6 total, leading the team)Sort of like watching someone like Shaun Livingston coming off the bench with the Warriors. Played within himself and put in solid minutes off the bench.
That sounds fine until you consider he's a mid-lottery pick. There are probably at least five players drafted behind him who are significantly more productive going into year three. I don't think drafting a decent rotation role-player that high was the design.
I think there are easily 10 guys. Just looked back at that draft. Frank was a bad pick at 8.
easy to say now. If he becomes what he was drafted for most certainly not.
But here's the thing, looking back to that draft and what the experts were forecasting about Frank, I don't think anybody projected him as a future all-star. There are at least five players drafted behind him you can envision one day being an all-star. At this point we're just hoping Frank can become a contributing player on a good team. If that is all the Knicks were expecting with that 8th pick they should've traded it.
Honestly, aside from De'Aaron an Lauri, you can make the same argument that are five players drafted after the top lottery picks that look like they have a better shot at being All-Stars. You can't use that as a barometer. Picks usually take time. Just look at the picks taken 8th historically.
Welpee wrote:fishmike wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Welpee wrote:technomaster wrote:I think he looked solid enough - didn't embarrass himself on the floor, set up his teammates for some scrappy assists. (I think he had 6 total, leading the team)Sort of like watching someone like Shaun Livingston coming off the bench with the Warriors. Played within himself and put in solid minutes off the bench.
That sounds fine until you consider he's a mid-lottery pick. There are probably at least five players drafted behind him who are significantly more productive going into year three. I don't think drafting a decent rotation role-player that high was the design.
I think there are easily 10 guys. Just looked back at that draft. Frank was a bad pick at 8.
easy to say now. If he becomes what he was drafted for most certainly not.
But here's the thing, looking back to that draft and what the experts were forecasting about Frank, I don't think anybody projected him as a future all-star. There are at least five players drafted behind him you can envision one day being an all-star. At this point we're just hoping Frank can become a contributing player on a good team. If that is all the Knicks were expecting with that 8th pick they should've traded it.
Everything picked Frank 8-12. Monk, Mitchell, Frank, DSjr... it was very hard to separate them. Also I dont consider a guy who can be an elite defender just a "contributor" I see that as a core component. Obviously has to show it, but we drafted an 18 year old kid mostly because of his physical attributes and PG skills. Its been 2 years. We know Frank can defend, handle the ball and pass. He's yet to show enough of the other things to earn him a rotation spot (or stayed healthy) but we have certainly seen flashes of an elite defender with PG skills, if not an actual PG. Lowry was in the league 4 years before he hit double digits in scoring. There is a time when you have to say this player or that player is behind his peers and needs to show more. Is this that time for Frank? I certainly think some expect that....
Unless the argument is to avoid late bloomers because you can get guys like Mudiay and Vonleh off the scrap heap?
First organized game since March which he only played 2 games since being out in Jan. Its also August right now with hopefully a lot of basketball available to him until camp.
Gotta keep working and see where it goes.
From the short clips, he doesn't utilize his surrounding 3 point shooters on kickouts enough which allows the defenders to cheat cause more traffic in the paint to work against. On that missed floater he sucked in 4 defenders and had 2 open 3 point shooters to kick out to.
fishmike wrote:Welpee wrote:fishmike wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Welpee wrote:technomaster wrote:I think he looked solid enough - didn't embarrass himself on the floor, set up his teammates for some scrappy assists. (I think he had 6 total, leading the team)Sort of like watching someone like Shaun Livingston coming off the bench with the Warriors. Played within himself and put in solid minutes off the bench.
That sounds fine until you consider he's a mid-lottery pick. There are probably at least five players drafted behind him who are significantly more productive going into year three. I don't think drafting a decent rotation role-player that high was the design.
I think there are easily 10 guys. Just looked back at that draft. Frank was a bad pick at 8.
easy to say now. If he becomes what he was drafted for most certainly not.
But here's the thing, looking back to that draft and what the experts were forecasting about Frank, I don't think anybody projected him as a future all-star. There are at least five players drafted behind him you can envision one day being an all-star. At this point we're just hoping Frank can become a contributing player on a good team. If that is all the Knicks were expecting with that 8th pick they should've traded it.
Everything picked Frank 8-12. Monk, Mitchell, Frank, DSjr... it was very hard to separate them. Also I dont consider a guy who can be an elite defender just a "contributor" I see that as a core component. Obviously has to show it, but we drafted an 18 year old kid mostly because of his physical attributes and PG skills. Its been 2 years. We know Frank can defend, handle the ball and pass. He's yet to show enough of the other things to earn him a rotation spot (or stayed healthy) but we have certainly seen flashes of an elite defender with PG skills, if not an actual PG. Lowry was in the league 4 years before he hit double digits in scoring. There is a time when you have to say this player or that player is behind his peers and needs to show more. Is this that time for Frank? I certainly think some expect that....Unless the argument is to avoid late bloomers because you can get guys like Mudiay and Vonleh off the scrap heap?
Obviously Frank is young and could blossom when he hits his mid-late 20s like others have. One thing you failed to mention about Lowry, he didn't become an all-star until joining his third team. I suspect Frank isn't going to be the player he could eventually become playing for the Knicks.
I've been a Knicks fan for a long, long, long time. What I'm look for are flashes of potential. All I'm seeing from Frank so far are flashes of being another Darrell Walker. Long, plays defense, serviceable, useful, etc.
fishmike wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Welpee wrote:technomaster wrote:I think he looked solid enough - didn't embarrass himself on the floor, set up his teammates for some scrappy assists. (I think he had 6 total, leading the team)Sort of like watching someone like Shaun Livingston coming off the bench with the Warriors. Played within himself and put in solid minutes off the bench.
That sounds fine until you consider he's a mid-lottery pick. There are probably at least five players drafted behind him who are significantly more productive going into year three. I don't think drafting a decent rotation role-player that high was the design.
I think there are easily 10 guys. Just looked back at that draft. Frank was a bad pick at 8.
easy to say now. If he becomes what he was drafted for most certainly not.
I think Frank was mocked at around 12-15 at the time of the draft. It was a stretch to take him at 8 at the time. The guy that picked him and his system was gone shortly after he was drafted.
fishmike wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Welpee wrote:technomaster wrote:I think he looked solid enough - didn't embarrass himself on the floor, set up his teammates for some scrappy assists. (I think he had 6 total, leading the team)Sort of like watching someone like Shaun Livingston coming off the bench with the Warriors. Played within himself and put in solid minutes off the bench.
That sounds fine until you consider he's a mid-lottery pick. There are probably at least five players drafted behind him who are significantly more productive going into year three. I don't think drafting a decent rotation role-player that high was the design.
I think there are easily 10 guys. Just looked back at that draft. Frank was a bad pick at 8.
easy to say now. If he becomes what he was drafted for most certainly not.
Frank had the highest bust/boom potential when drafted.
Gun to my head, am I keeping him based on what I've seen? Honestly, no.
Might I regret that, might he turn into Ariza and become a long term play off contributor, yes.
franco12 wrote:fishmike wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Welpee wrote:technomaster wrote:I think he looked solid enough - didn't embarrass himself on the floor, set up his teammates for some scrappy assists. (I think he had 6 total, leading the team)Sort of like watching someone like Shaun Livingston coming off the bench with the Warriors. Played within himself and put in solid minutes off the bench.
That sounds fine until you consider he's a mid-lottery pick. There are probably at least five players drafted behind him who are significantly more productive going into year three. I don't think drafting a decent rotation role-player that high was the design.
I think there are easily 10 guys. Just looked back at that draft. Frank was a bad pick at 8.
easy to say now. If he becomes what he was drafted for most certainly not.
Frank had the highest bust/boom potential when drafted.
Gun to my head, am I keeping him based on what I've seen? Honestly, no.
Might I regret that, might he turn into Ariza and become a long term play off contributor, yes.
Ariza, michael cooper, mike miller, boris diaw, chris anderson, mike riordan, dave stallworth, hawthorne wingo, i don‘t care who we compare him to he will contribute to a championship and i want it to be on the knicks.
Another season of more of the same from Frank , and it will be fair to call him a bust at 8. Never came close to using that word since Frank has been drafted. If he still putting up the same numbers after year 3, its deserved IMO. Doesnt mean his game will remain static for the rest of his career, but it will be fair to say he was a bust for the Knicks.
GustavBahler wrote:Another season of more of the same from Frank , and it will be fair to call him a bust at 8. Never came close to using that word since Frank has been drafted. If he still putting up the same numbers after year 3, its deserved IMO. Doesnt mean his game will remain static for the rest of his career, but it will be fair to say he was a bust for the Knicks.
he’s an asset. when do u have the insight to drop your disappointment from his draft selection and reassess his value going forward? and hopefully the knicks deploy him accordingly.
Marv wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Another season of more of the same from Frank , and it will be fair to call him a bust at 8. Never came close to using that word since Frank has been drafted. If he still putting up the same numbers after year 3, its deserved IMO. Doesnt mean his game will remain static for the rest of his career, but it will be fair to say he was a bust for the Knicks.
he’s an asset. when do u have the insight to drop your disappointment from his draft selection and reassess his value going forward? and hopefully the knicks deploy him accordingly.
Dont believe a guard that forces his team to play 4 on 5 on offense is much of an asset. That is mostly the province of G-leaguers. At 8, and the longest tenured Knick, you're damned right Im disappointed.
GustavBahler wrote:Marv wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Another season of more of the same from Frank , and it will be fair to call him a bust at 8. Never came close to using that word since Frank has been drafted. If he still putting up the same numbers after year 3, its deserved IMO. Doesnt mean his game will remain static for the rest of his career, but it will be fair to say he was a bust for the Knicks.
he’s an asset. when do u have the insight to drop your disappointment from his draft selection and reassess his value going forward? and hopefully the knicks deploy him accordingly.
Dont believe a guard that forces his team to play 4 on 5 on offense is much of an asset. That is mostly the province of G-leaguers. At 8, and the longest tenured Knick, you're damned right Im disappointed.
and i didn’t mean to direct that at you and i apologize for it. was reacting to my general frustration at having a different take on frank than the majority 
franco12 wrote:Marv wrote:anrst wrote:that didn't look good ... he's gotta be way better than that... jeeze
c'mon man (in joe biden voice )
court awareness, ball movement, finding the opening for someone to the basket, 6 assists in 15 minutes, hitting the free throws ( 
)
the individual O still sucked, but u want a heads-up facilitator who's also in every defensive play, u saw it there.
did you watch the video? I'm not sure I saw anything from him in that 2 minutes that says he will be an NBA player at the end of the season.
The best bit of the video - the cute french brunette they cut to twice
Yeah has no chance of being anything more than an end of the bench player
Anyone know when their next game is? I don't see the team mentioned directly on FIBA's website. thx
NotInMyHouse wrote:Anyone know when their next game is? I don't see the team mentioned directly on FIBA's website. thx
This was from yesterday. So looks like a game today.
The fact that we have not traded him, but yet traded, signed, and even went to the g league for other pg/sg's is just weird, and has not lit a fire under him
Mark my words, if he is regulated to the Bench because every other guard out played him, he will be the next player asking for a trade.
knicks1248 wrote:The fact that we have not traded him, but yet traded, signed, and even went to the g league for other pg/sg's is just weird, and has not lit a fire under himMark my words, if he is regulated to the Bench because every other guard out played him, he will be the next player asking for a trade.
My guess would be the offers werent that good. Knicks scouts have been doing a good job of finding talent in the second round, undrafted. Pretty sure a deal would have been done with a decent offer.
I read they wanted to try DSJr and Frank as a backcourt. With Barrett and Payton on the roster, that plan might not be as much of a priority now. If Frank were averaging just under, or at double digits, the offers would have been there, Im guessing.
GustavBahler wrote:knicks1248 wrote:The fact that we have not traded him, but yet traded, signed, and even went to the g league for other pg/sg's is just weird, and has not lit a fire under himMark my words, if he is regulated to the Bench because every other guard out played him, he will be the next player asking for a trade.
My guess would be the offers werent that good. Knicks scouts have been doing a good job of finding talent in the second round, undrafted. Pretty sure a deal would have been done with a decent offer.
I read they wanted to try DSJr and Frank as a backcourt. With Barrett and Payton on the roster, that plan might not be as much of a priority now. If Frank were averaging just under, or at double digits, the offers would have been there, Im guessing.
Are you telling me his valus is beneath a 2nd rounder?
How does a player go from 8th overall pick to having zero value in 2 seasons without any significant injuries..
Anyone that doesn't think that is not a direct reflection of this Franchises development process, your just a straight Homer for sure. Obviously the player takes some of the blame as well
