Knicks · OT: What is more important in Pro Sports - values or money? (page 2)

arkrud wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:100% money. Everything you see is done for money. Even the charity events are done for money. They want the league to look like a bunch of good guys so people feel better about watching them or spending money on them.

The NBA nor the Rockets don’t give a flying fudge about the trash China treats their citizens like. Maybe Morey does but if that gets in the way of billions of dollars, firing him wont even be thought about. They’ll just do it. Their
Explanation will continue to be “We don’t have political affiliations.”

China looks just as bad.

The NBA cares about its players and its fans. “Shut up and play” was an ugly statement to African Americans and the fans of that demographic. The Kneeling issue divided the NFL as it did not stand behind its players.

HOw many Chinese players are outraged the NBA does business in china? How many Chinese American fans are appalled by the NBA doing business there? We are talking about Morey making a statement about the Hong Kong issue. NOT what they are doing to Buddhists, to Peaceful Muslims etc.
Nobody is boycotting Chinese goods, Chinese olympics, etc. Remember when South Africa was boycotted because of its apartheid? We not even close to that.

I don’t think the NBA said “They don’t care”, they said they are basketball league that plays basketball and is not political. Right now we cage immigrant children and turn back people dying in other countries? We are a waring nation that turns its back on allies. Should us teams playing in Europe be judged by the actions of a government that does these things?

What is the point you are trying to make? This is borderline flight of ideas.

NBA cares about its players and its fans. Because of moral goodness? No, its good business.
Im paraphrasing here: "Do I care how the Chinese gov't behaves on its citizens"?
Ted Cruz tells us we be upset NBA said "we are not political"?
Did Morey offend the people of china or its gov't?
We love to point fingers so its easy to point to the NBA and say "Wow, you really sucked up to the Chinese gov't, shame on you"! Where is Ted Cruz on lax gun laws that are killing our children? Cages on immigrant detainees?
NBA owners are billionaires that employ a high % of black players and what redneck ignorant republican is gonna take sides on a "daggone entitled black multimillionaire"!!!! That's my point!
Personally If IM Fertitta the thought of firing Morey would have crossed my mind. He used this public persona as the GM of the highest profile NBA team in China as his personal platform to express his ideas. Im being very pragmatic here. Im not opposed to Morey's position. This is a discussion about pro sports and Profits. The NBA does not profit from Chinas human rights violations. WE not talking blood diamonds from South Africa. If we that outraged we should stop buying Chinese manufactured goods from over worked factory employees!
NBA as an American business profits from selling basketball viewership to China. TO be critical of the NBA you have to say we should not be exporting to china. We don't.

Morey's job is to construct a roster of basketball players to win games which increases revenue thru increased viewership. The Rockets due to Yao Ming's employment became a visable force for the NBA. Morey is a public figure who because of what he does. His personal views conflicted with his duties. If he is that conflicted by this he is free to quit his job and use that event as a platform to bring notice to the confict. He would be sacrificing. His choice. I would respect that a lot. Few athletes have done this. Boxing great Muhammad Ali sacrificed for his values. Michael Jordan might be very philanthropic toward social and political issues. If so he is private about it. His choice. He choosed to not use his fame as a platform. Lebron has and has not faced much backlash from the younger fans who he is marketed to. Magic Johnson has not been overly political. Bird has is private. Jabbar is very outspoken. Bill Russell in a different era used success as a platform to elevate his values. Red Auerbach and the Celtics were instrumental creating that environment. That was in America and we have our own internal debate. The issue we discuss is china.

I love Nalod. But borderline flight of ideas (except when it applies to posts on reinman) is an apt assessment most of the time. His intelligent insights get lost in his 60's stream-of-consciousness style.

What do we actually have here? A white executive who is employed by a mostly black-player dominated NBA that just kowtowed to the Chinese government in reaction to his imparting AN OPINION. The shortness of memories here is stunningly amazing. Noah refuses a dinner with the militaristic war machine that is the US Army, and all the right things are said about "conscience" and "values" and "freedom of expression". Nothing doing about the fact he's pissing on his own multimillion dollar food bowl that a bunch of "kids" go fight and die for. At what amounts to minimum wage + benefits. Anyone GAF if the US Army doesn't like the NBA?

Maybe Morey would have been vilified as well for putting flowers in the muzzles of tanks at Tianmen Square? Go forth and explain the difference between those protesters and this Hong Kong contingent. Probably because they must have ties to the Orange Cheetoh, right?

I love this "shit on America and all these redneck ignorant republicans", and everything's fine. Dare to piss on a foreign totalitarian regime's bullshit strongarm tactics, and back off, because you're pissing in the food bowl. Whine about caged infants. Scream at the wall. Fuck the NRA up the wazoo. Do you give a fuck about the millions of infants that get aborted and killed in China simply because they're the wrong sex? Oh wait, that's good for business. Boys buy more NBA marketed stuff.

Being critical doesn't mean you automatically need to hold hostages until Cheetoh enacts boycotts on top of tariffs. This is America. Even an NBA exec should be able to tweet an opinion ABOUT WHAT'S OBVIOUSLY RIGHT without wondering about his checkbook. Or everyone else's.

Values. Or. Money. Interesting that there's a debate.

I agree with most of what you said. Yes, we "Should" be able to express a view without retribution. But we live in a world where outrage against private Chick-Fil-A is a bit anti gay in its Christian values and people will boycott against yummy chicken sandwiches. others will run and buy more Yumminess because they are closed on Sunday's and express anti gay views. My stance, they are a private company and the owner can donate his money as he wishes. If you don't want to support them then don't. Y

As for what is right or wrong perhaps using our Judeo-Christian values as the moral compass is the only guide posts might be a bit subjective? Some places its legal to end the life of your daughter or wife if she bought shame to you. Throw a gay man off a building because he is gay. Should we be selling basketball games to people like this?

They can buy the games. It is up to them. Or don't. It is up to them too.
But if they will buy the games and then will tell us we are some kind of Sodom&Gomorrah and we are offending then by our mere existence we just should ignore them.
China think that they can extort anything from us by taking some $$$ away. And they are right in this as we showed many times that this hurt us.
So it is time to show that we don't give a dam about it...

You didn't just pony up 2.2 billion for the rockets. The notion of "we" is not the same. You don't give a damn, but you did not pay a premium for an NBA franchise whose valuation was predicated on its popularity in China. Adidas paid Harden a premium to sell its shoes in China. He goes there on promo tours every year. So "We showing china whose boss" is not anything of consequence to your or I. Im sure there are many other considerations. Not that we care about billionairs and there billionaire problems but while the more we assimilate with each other the better countries of different cultures can better get along. Im not saying lack of Rocket basketball in china will lead to war but trade wars get ugly and have a history of bad endings.

Lets hope the things that unite us are more popular than what divides us.

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:100% money. Everything you see is done for money. Even the charity events are done for money. They want the league to look like a bunch of good guys so people feel better about watching them or spending money on them.

The NBA nor the Rockets don’t give a flying fudge about the trash China treats their citizens like. Maybe Morey does but if that gets in the way of billions of dollars, firing him wont even be thought about. They’ll just do it. Their
Explanation will continue to be “We don’t have political affiliations.”

China looks just as bad.

The NBA cares about its players and its fans. “Shut up and play” was an ugly statement to African Americans and the fans of that demographic. The Kneeling issue divided the NFL as it did not stand behind its players.

HOw many Chinese players are outraged the NBA does business in china? How many Chinese American fans are appalled by the NBA doing business there? We are talking about Morey making a statement about the Hong Kong issue. NOT what they are doing to Buddhists, to Peaceful Muslims etc.
Nobody is boycotting Chinese goods, Chinese olympics, etc. Remember when South Africa was boycotted because of its apartheid? We not even close to that.

I don’t think the NBA said “They don’t care”, they said they are basketball league that plays basketball and is not political. Right now we cage immigrant children and turn back people dying in other countries? We are a waring nation that turns its back on allies. Should us teams playing in Europe be judged by the actions of a government that does these things?

What is the point you are trying to make? This is borderline flight of ideas.

NBA cares about its players and its fans. Because of moral goodness? No, its good business.
Im paraphrasing here: "Do I care how the Chinese gov't behaves on its citizens"?
Ted Cruz tells us we be upset NBA said "we are not political"?
Did Morey offend the people of china or its gov't?
We love to point fingers so its easy to point to the NBA and say "Wow, you really sucked up to the Chinese gov't, shame on you"! Where is Ted Cruz on lax gun laws that are killing our children? Cages on immigrant detainees?
NBA owners are billionaires that employ a high % of black players and what redneck ignorant republican is gonna take sides on a "daggone entitled black multimillionaire"!!!! That's my point!
Personally If IM Fertitta the thought of firing Morey would have crossed my mind. He used this public persona as the GM of the highest profile NBA team in China as his personal platform to express his ideas. Im being very pragmatic here. Im not opposed to Morey's position. This is a discussion about pro sports and Profits. The NBA does not profit from Chinas human rights violations. WE not talking blood diamonds from South Africa. If we that outraged we should stop buying Chinese manufactured goods from over worked factory employees!
NBA as an American business profits from selling basketball viewership to China. TO be critical of the NBA you have to say we should not be exporting to china. We don't.

Morey's job is to construct a roster of basketball players to win games which increases revenue thru increased viewership. The Rockets due to Yao Ming's employment became a visable force for the NBA. Morey is a public figure who because of what he does. His personal views conflicted with his duties. If he is that conflicted by this he is free to quit his job and use that event as a platform to bring notice to the confict. He would be sacrificing. His choice. I would respect that a lot. Few athletes have done this. Boxing great Muhammad Ali sacrificed for his values. Michael Jordan might be very philanthropic toward social and political issues. If so he is private about it. His choice. He choosed to not use his fame as a platform. Lebron has and has not faced much backlash from the younger fans who he is marketed to. Magic Johnson has not been overly political. Bird has is private. Jabbar is very outspoken. Bill Russell in a different era used success as a platform to elevate his values. Red Auerbach and the Celtics were instrumental creating that environment. That was in America and we have our own internal debate. The issue we discuss is china.

I love Nalod. But borderline flight of ideas (except when it applies to posts on reinman) is an apt assessment most of the time. His intelligent insights get lost in his 60's stream-of-consciousness style.

What do we actually have here? A white executive who is employed by a mostly black-player dominated NBA that just kowtowed to the Chinese government in reaction to his imparting AN OPINION. The shortness of memories here is stunningly amazing. Noah refuses a dinner with the militaristic war machine that is the US Army, and all the right things are said about "conscience" and "values" and "freedom of expression". Nothing doing about the fact he's pissing on his own multimillion dollar food bowl that a bunch of "kids" go fight and die for. At what amounts to minimum wage + benefits. Anyone GAF if the US Army doesn't like the NBA?

Maybe Morey would have been vilified as well for putting flowers in the muzzles of tanks at Tianmen Square? Go forth and explain the difference between those protesters and this Hong Kong contingent. Probably because they must have ties to the Orange Cheetoh, right?

I love this "shit on America and all these redneck ignorant republicans", and everything's fine. Dare to piss on a foreign totalitarian regime's bullshit strongarm tactics, and back off, because you're pissing in the food bowl. Whine about caged infants. Scream at the wall. Fuck the NRA up the wazoo. Do you give a fuck about the millions of infants that get aborted and killed in China simply because they're the wrong sex? Oh wait, that's good for business. Boys buy more NBA marketed stuff.

Being critical doesn't mean you automatically need to hold hostages until Cheetoh enacts boycotts on top of tariffs. This is America. Even an NBA exec should be able to tweet an opinion ABOUT WHAT'S OBVIOUSLY RIGHT without wondering about his checkbook. Or everyone else's.

Values. Or. Money. Interesting that there's a debate.

I agree with most of what you said. Yes, we "Should" be able to express a view without retribution. But we live in a world where outrage against private Chick-Fil-A is a bit anti gay in its Christian values and people will boycott against yummy chicken sandwiches. others will run and buy more Yumminess because they are closed on Sunday's and express anti gay views. My stance, they are a private company and the owner can donate his money as he wishes. The Company is not anti anyting. If you don't want to support them then don't. But the voices get louder.

If it was a publicly owned company there are a certain amount of rules.

As for what is right or wrong perhaps using our Judeo-Christian values as the moral compass is the only guide posts might be a bit subjective? Some places its legal to end the life of your daughter or wife if she bought shame to you. Throw a gay man off a building because he is gay. Should we be selling basketball games to people like this?

We sell basketball games to people like ourselves, who, as you pointed out originally, do lots of anti-Judeo-Christian stuff.

There are currently only 4 overtly Christian publicly traded companies in the US, and they barely represent half a blip on a tick's arse as far as the market is concerned. So if I follow your 'certain rules' logic correctly, it's money, THEN values.

Nietzsche held that values were nothing more than "rules" for the weak herd to hold back the super strong and deserving individuals. arkud's here making points about the pending return to the dark ages if nothing is done to destroy the existing "empires". The voices sure do get louder. And if they get loud enough in a single tweet, they get deleted. Interesting how that works, isn't it?

My whole point is if we're asking the "or values" question in the first place, money has already shown there is no debate.

Chick Fil A served pro-gay boycotters and protesters outside their stores. Some store employees even went and bought food and water at some other stores so not to obviously have the protesters seem to be promoting the brand they disagree with.
"But outrage". There are Chic Fil A's all over New Jersey. Most of them look like they're giving away free cash, except on Sundays. How many fast food places need to open THREE drive thru lanes at the same time? Or have people lined up inside like their waiting to ride the latest Avengers ride at DisneyWorld? Outrage from some may be loud, but the others buying the Yummies talk louder. Again, even if you're on the "right" side of the 'right and wrong' questions, money still talks.

This country has the absolute distinction of having been founded on the Judeo-Christian ethic, like it or not. We live with a certain amount of responsibility for that, since we open the doors (and the walls) for people to come here (legally, anyway). If there is no transcendent "right or wrong" then there is just might/capital makes right. So don't question the lines. Just toe them. And shut up. And fold your bills carefully.

The Communist Party's official newspaper, People's Daily, said in a commentary that Morey touched China's bottom line: "Morey's position is hurtful to Chinese basketball fans and is also an affront to the Chinese people." The newspaper also noted that multinational corporations who likewise tested the line on Hong Kong have "paid a heavy price."

BTW, I hate consumer lead boycotts. They come and go and do little.
Thus I hate what China is doing by blacklisting Morey and the rockets.
My point is the moral outrage by americans is a bit plastic at times.
I'd be furious at Morey if Im Tillman Fertitta. Any American company needs to fully understand you play by different rules in other peoples backyard.

Nalod wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:100% money. Everything you see is done for money. Even the charity events are done for money. They want the league to look like a bunch of good guys so people feel better about watching them or spending money on them.

The NBA nor the Rockets don’t give a flying fudge about the trash China treats their citizens like. Maybe Morey does but if that gets in the way of billions of dollars, firing him wont even be thought about. They’ll just do it. Their
Explanation will continue to be “We don’t have political affiliations.”

China looks just as bad.

The NBA cares about its players and its fans. “Shut up and play” was an ugly statement to African Americans and the fans of that demographic. The Kneeling issue divided the NFL as it did not stand behind its players.

HOw many Chinese players are outraged the NBA does business in china? How many Chinese American fans are appalled by the NBA doing business there? We are talking about Morey making a statement about the Hong Kong issue. NOT what they are doing to Buddhists, to Peaceful Muslims etc.
Nobody is boycotting Chinese goods, Chinese olympics, etc. Remember when South Africa was boycotted because of its apartheid? We not even close to that.

I don’t think the NBA said “They don’t care”, they said they are basketball league that plays basketball and is not political. Right now we cage immigrant children and turn back people dying in other countries? We are a waring nation that turns its back on allies. Should us teams playing in Europe be judged by the actions of a government that does these things?

What is the point you are trying to make? This is borderline flight of ideas.

NBA cares about its players and its fans. Because of moral goodness? No, its good business.
Im paraphrasing here: "Do I care how the Chinese gov't behaves on its citizens"?
Ted Cruz tells us we be upset NBA said "we are not political"?
Did Morey offend the people of china or its gov't?
We love to point fingers so its easy to point to the NBA and say "Wow, you really sucked up to the Chinese gov't, shame on you"! Where is Ted Cruz on lax gun laws that are killing our children? Cages on immigrant detainees?
NBA owners are billionaires that employ a high % of black players and what redneck ignorant republican is gonna take sides on a "daggone entitled black multimillionaire"!!!! That's my point!
Personally If IM Fertitta the thought of firing Morey would have crossed my mind. He used this public persona as the GM of the highest profile NBA team in China as his personal platform to express his ideas. Im being very pragmatic here. Im not opposed to Morey's position. This is a discussion about pro sports and Profits. The NBA does not profit from Chinas human rights violations. WE not talking blood diamonds from South Africa. If we that outraged we should stop buying Chinese manufactured goods from over worked factory employees!
NBA as an American business profits from selling basketball viewership to China. TO be critical of the NBA you have to say we should not be exporting to china. We don't.

Morey's job is to construct a roster of basketball players to win games which increases revenue thru increased viewership. The Rockets due to Yao Ming's employment became a visable force for the NBA. Morey is a public figure who because of what he does. His personal views conflicted with his duties. If he is that conflicted by this he is free to quit his job and use that event as a platform to bring notice to the confict. He would be sacrificing. His choice. I would respect that a lot. Few athletes have done this. Boxing great Muhammad Ali sacrificed for his values. Michael Jordan might be very philanthropic toward social and political issues. If so he is private about it. His choice. He choosed to not use his fame as a platform. Lebron has and has not faced much backlash from the younger fans who he is marketed to. Magic Johnson has not been overly political. Bird has is private. Jabbar is very outspoken. Bill Russell in a different era used success as a platform to elevate his values. Red Auerbach and the Celtics were instrumental creating that environment. That was in America and we have our own internal debate. The issue we discuss is china.

I love Nalod. But borderline flight of ideas (except when it applies to posts on reinman) is an apt assessment most of the time. His intelligent insights get lost in his 60's stream-of-consciousness style.

What do we actually have here? A white executive who is employed by a mostly black-player dominated NBA that just kowtowed to the Chinese government in reaction to his imparting AN OPINION. The shortness of memories here is stunningly amazing. Noah refuses a dinner with the militaristic war machine that is the US Army, and all the right things are said about "conscience" and "values" and "freedom of expression". Nothing doing about the fact he's pissing on his own multimillion dollar food bowl that a bunch of "kids" go fight and die for. At what amounts to minimum wage + benefits. Anyone GAF if the US Army doesn't like the NBA?

Maybe Morey would have been vilified as well for putting flowers in the muzzles of tanks at Tianmen Square? Go forth and explain the difference between those protesters and this Hong Kong contingent. Probably because they must have ties to the Orange Cheetoh, right?

I love this "shit on America and all these redneck ignorant republicans", and everything's fine. Dare to piss on a foreign totalitarian regime's bullshit strongarm tactics, and back off, because you're pissing in the food bowl. Whine about caged infants. Scream at the wall. Fuck the NRA up the wazoo. Do you give a fuck about the millions of infants that get aborted and killed in China simply because they're the wrong sex? Oh wait, that's good for business. Boys buy more NBA marketed stuff.

Being critical doesn't mean you automatically need to hold hostages until Cheetoh enacts boycotts on top of tariffs. This is America. Even an NBA exec should be able to tweet an opinion ABOUT WHAT'S OBVIOUSLY RIGHT without wondering about his checkbook. Or everyone else's.

Values. Or. Money. Interesting that there's a debate.

I agree with most of what you said. Yes, we "Should" be able to express a view without retribution. But we live in a world where outrage against private Chick-Fil-A is a bit anti gay in its Christian values and people will boycott against yummy chicken sandwiches. others will run and buy more Yumminess because they are closed on Sunday's and express anti gay views. My stance, they are a private company and the owner can donate his money as he wishes. If you don't want to support them then don't. Y

As for what is right or wrong perhaps using our Judeo-Christian values as the moral compass is the only guide posts might be a bit subjective? Some places its legal to end the life of your daughter or wife if she bought shame to you. Throw a gay man off a building because he is gay. Should we be selling basketball games to people like this?

They can buy the games. It is up to them. Or don't. It is up to them too.
But if they will buy the games and then will tell us we are some kind of Sodom&Gomorrah and we are offending then by our mere existence we just should ignore them.
China think that they can extort anything from us by taking some $$$ away. And they are right in this as we showed many times that this hurt us.
So it is time to show that we don't give a dam about it...

You didn't just pony up 2.2 billion for the rockets. The notion of "we" is not the same. You don't give a damn, but you did not pay a premium for an NBA franchise whose valuation was predicated on its popularity in China. Adidas paid Harden a premium to sell its shoes in China. He goes there on promo tours every year. So "We showing china whose boss" is not anything of consequence to your or I. Im sure there are many other considerations. Not that we care about billionairs and there billionaire problems but while the more we assimilate with each other the better countries of different cultures can better get along. Im not saying lack of Rocket basketball in china will lead to war but trade wars get ugly and have a history of bad endings.

Lets hope the things that unite us are more popular than what divides us.

We cannot unite. Eagle, Beer and Tiger cannot unite. Unless they decided to hunt and eat the zebra first or may be just hunt and then decide who eat first and how much.
We are different. We can and should coexist but not unite. There is no ground for this. I am sorry but this is an illusion.
Coalition leaders called Hither a gentlemen and Stalin a wise man back then before selling Pols and Czechs in Munich and we all know how this end up with the mountains of dead.
We better hold up to the "values" (whatever they are Judeo-Christian or just human) this time around because this time can be the last time. And it starts with small things.

arkrud wrote:

Nalod wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:100% money. Everything you see is done for money. Even the charity events are done for money. They want the league to look like a bunch of good guys so people feel better about watching them or spending money on them.

The NBA nor the Rockets don’t give a flying fudge about the trash China treats their citizens like. Maybe Morey does but if that gets in the way of billions of dollars, firing him wont even be thought about. They’ll just do it. Their
Explanation will continue to be “We don’t have political affiliations.”

China looks just as bad.

The NBA cares about its players and its fans. “Shut up and play” was an ugly statement to African Americans and the fans of that demographic. The Kneeling issue divided the NFL as it did not stand behind its players.

HOw many Chinese players are outraged the NBA does business in china? How many Chinese American fans are appalled by the NBA doing business there? We are talking about Morey making a statement about the Hong Kong issue. NOT what they are doing to Buddhists, to Peaceful Muslims etc.
Nobody is boycotting Chinese goods, Chinese olympics, etc. Remember when South Africa was boycotted because of its apartheid? We not even close to that.

I don’t think the NBA said “They don’t care”, they said they are basketball league that plays basketball and is not political. Right now we cage immigrant children and turn back people dying in other countries? We are a waring nation that turns its back on allies. Should us teams playing in Europe be judged by the actions of a government that does these things?

What is the point you are trying to make? This is borderline flight of ideas.

NBA cares about its players and its fans. Because of moral goodness? No, its good business.
Im paraphrasing here: "Do I care how the Chinese gov't behaves on its citizens"?
Ted Cruz tells us we be upset NBA said "we are not political"?
Did Morey offend the people of china or its gov't?
We love to point fingers so its easy to point to the NBA and say "Wow, you really sucked up to the Chinese gov't, shame on you"! Where is Ted Cruz on lax gun laws that are killing our children? Cages on immigrant detainees?
NBA owners are billionaires that employ a high % of black players and what redneck ignorant republican is gonna take sides on a "daggone entitled black multimillionaire"!!!! That's my point!
Personally If IM Fertitta the thought of firing Morey would have crossed my mind. He used this public persona as the GM of the highest profile NBA team in China as his personal platform to express his ideas. Im being very pragmatic here. Im not opposed to Morey's position. This is a discussion about pro sports and Profits. The NBA does not profit from Chinas human rights violations. WE not talking blood diamonds from South Africa. If we that outraged we should stop buying Chinese manufactured goods from over worked factory employees!
NBA as an American business profits from selling basketball viewership to China. TO be critical of the NBA you have to say we should not be exporting to china. We don't.

Morey's job is to construct a roster of basketball players to win games which increases revenue thru increased viewership. The Rockets due to Yao Ming's employment became a visable force for the NBA. Morey is a public figure who because of what he does. His personal views conflicted with his duties. If he is that conflicted by this he is free to quit his job and use that event as a platform to bring notice to the confict. He would be sacrificing. His choice. I would respect that a lot. Few athletes have done this. Boxing great Muhammad Ali sacrificed for his values. Michael Jordan might be very philanthropic toward social and political issues. If so he is private about it. His choice. He choosed to not use his fame as a platform. Lebron has and has not faced much backlash from the younger fans who he is marketed to. Magic Johnson has not been overly political. Bird has is private. Jabbar is very outspoken. Bill Russell in a different era used success as a platform to elevate his values. Red Auerbach and the Celtics were instrumental creating that environment. That was in America and we have our own internal debate. The issue we discuss is china.

I love Nalod. But borderline flight of ideas (except when it applies to posts on reinman) is an apt assessment most of the time. His intelligent insights get lost in his 60's stream-of-consciousness style.

What do we actually have here? A white executive who is employed by a mostly black-player dominated NBA that just kowtowed to the Chinese government in reaction to his imparting AN OPINION. The shortness of memories here is stunningly amazing. Noah refuses a dinner with the militaristic war machine that is the US Army, and all the right things are said about "conscience" and "values" and "freedom of expression". Nothing doing about the fact he's pissing on his own multimillion dollar food bowl that a bunch of "kids" go fight and die for. At what amounts to minimum wage + benefits. Anyone GAF if the US Army doesn't like the NBA?

Maybe Morey would have been vilified as well for putting flowers in the muzzles of tanks at Tianmen Square? Go forth and explain the difference between those protesters and this Hong Kong contingent. Probably because they must have ties to the Orange Cheetoh, right?

I love this "shit on America and all these redneck ignorant republicans", and everything's fine. Dare to piss on a foreign totalitarian regime's bullshit strongarm tactics, and back off, because you're pissing in the food bowl. Whine about caged infants. Scream at the wall. Fuck the NRA up the wazoo. Do you give a fuck about the millions of infants that get aborted and killed in China simply because they're the wrong sex? Oh wait, that's good for business. Boys buy more NBA marketed stuff.

Being critical doesn't mean you automatically need to hold hostages until Cheetoh enacts boycotts on top of tariffs. This is America. Even an NBA exec should be able to tweet an opinion ABOUT WHAT'S OBVIOUSLY RIGHT without wondering about his checkbook. Or everyone else's.

Values. Or. Money. Interesting that there's a debate.

I agree with most of what you said. Yes, we "Should" be able to express a view without retribution. But we live in a world where outrage against private Chick-Fil-A is a bit anti gay in its Christian values and people will boycott against yummy chicken sandwiches. others will run and buy more Yumminess because they are closed on Sunday's and express anti gay views. My stance, they are a private company and the owner can donate his money as he wishes. If you don't want to support them then don't. Y

As for what is right or wrong perhaps using our Judeo-Christian values as the moral compass is the only guide posts might be a bit subjective? Some places its legal to end the life of your daughter or wife if she bought shame to you. Throw a gay man off a building because he is gay. Should we be selling basketball games to people like this?

They can buy the games. It is up to them. Or don't. It is up to them too.
But if they will buy the games and then will tell us we are some kind of Sodom&Gomorrah and we are offending then by our mere existence we just should ignore them.
China think that they can extort anything from us by taking some $$$ away. And they are right in this as we showed many times that this hurt us.
So it is time to show that we don't give a dam about it...

You didn't just pony up 2.2 billion for the rockets. The notion of "we" is not the same. You don't give a damn, but you did not pay a premium for an NBA franchise whose valuation was predicated on its popularity in China. Adidas paid Harden a premium to sell its shoes in China. He goes there on promo tours every year. So "We showing china whose boss" is not anything of consequence to your or I. Im sure there are many other considerations. Not that we care about billionairs and there billionaire problems but while the more we assimilate with each other the better countries of different cultures can better get along. Im not saying lack of Rocket basketball in china will lead to war but trade wars get ugly and have a history of bad endings.

Lets hope the things that unite us are more popular than what divides us.

We cannot unite. Eagle, Beer and Tiger cannot unite. Unless they decided to hunt and eat the zebra first or may be just hunt and then decide who eat first and how much.
We are different. We can and should coexist but not unite. There is no ground for this. I am sorry but this is an illusion.
Coalition leaders called Hither a gentlemen and Stalin a wise man back then before selling Pols and Czechs in Munich and we all know how this end up with the mountains of dead.
We better hold up to the "values" (whatever they are Judeo-Christian or just human) this time around because this time can be the last time. And it starts with small things.

Perhaps "Unite" was a bit much. I recall when we started cooling down with Soviet Russia by cultural exchange and when China got opened up. We find things in common, things we both like, share cultures, etc. Basketball!!!

Nalod wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Nalod wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:100% money. Everything you see is done for money. Even the charity events are done for money. They want the league to look like a bunch of good guys so people feel better about watching them or spending money on them.

The NBA nor the Rockets don’t give a flying fudge about the trash China treats their citizens like. Maybe Morey does but if that gets in the way of billions of dollars, firing him wont even be thought about. They’ll just do it. Their
Explanation will continue to be “We don’t have political affiliations.”

China looks just as bad.

The NBA cares about its players and its fans. “Shut up and play” was an ugly statement to African Americans and the fans of that demographic. The Kneeling issue divided the NFL as it did not stand behind its players.

HOw many Chinese players are outraged the NBA does business in china? How many Chinese American fans are appalled by the NBA doing business there? We are talking about Morey making a statement about the Hong Kong issue. NOT what they are doing to Buddhists, to Peaceful Muslims etc.
Nobody is boycotting Chinese goods, Chinese olympics, etc. Remember when South Africa was boycotted because of its apartheid? We not even close to that.

I don’t think the NBA said “They don’t care”, they said they are basketball league that plays basketball and is not political. Right now we cage immigrant children and turn back people dying in other countries? We are a waring nation that turns its back on allies. Should us teams playing in Europe be judged by the actions of a government that does these things?

What is the point you are trying to make? This is borderline flight of ideas.

NBA cares about its players and its fans. Because of moral goodness? No, its good business.
Im paraphrasing here: "Do I care how the Chinese gov't behaves on its citizens"?
Ted Cruz tells us we be upset NBA said "we are not political"?
Did Morey offend the people of china or its gov't?
We love to point fingers so its easy to point to the NBA and say "Wow, you really sucked up to the Chinese gov't, shame on you"! Where is Ted Cruz on lax gun laws that are killing our children? Cages on immigrant detainees?
NBA owners are billionaires that employ a high % of black players and what redneck ignorant republican is gonna take sides on a "daggone entitled black multimillionaire"!!!! That's my point!
Personally If IM Fertitta the thought of firing Morey would have crossed my mind. He used this public persona as the GM of the highest profile NBA team in China as his personal platform to express his ideas. Im being very pragmatic here. Im not opposed to Morey's position. This is a discussion about pro sports and Profits. The NBA does not profit from Chinas human rights violations. WE not talking blood diamonds from South Africa. If we that outraged we should stop buying Chinese manufactured goods from over worked factory employees!
NBA as an American business profits from selling basketball viewership to China. TO be critical of the NBA you have to say we should not be exporting to china. We don't.

Morey's job is to construct a roster of basketball players to win games which increases revenue thru increased viewership. The Rockets due to Yao Ming's employment became a visable force for the NBA. Morey is a public figure who because of what he does. His personal views conflicted with his duties. If he is that conflicted by this he is free to quit his job and use that event as a platform to bring notice to the confict. He would be sacrificing. His choice. I would respect that a lot. Few athletes have done this. Boxing great Muhammad Ali sacrificed for his values. Michael Jordan might be very philanthropic toward social and political issues. If so he is private about it. His choice. He choosed to not use his fame as a platform. Lebron has and has not faced much backlash from the younger fans who he is marketed to. Magic Johnson has not been overly political. Bird has is private. Jabbar is very outspoken. Bill Russell in a different era used success as a platform to elevate his values. Red Auerbach and the Celtics were instrumental creating that environment. That was in America and we have our own internal debate. The issue we discuss is china.

I love Nalod. But borderline flight of ideas (except when it applies to posts on reinman) is an apt assessment most of the time. His intelligent insights get lost in his 60's stream-of-consciousness style.

What do we actually have here? A white executive who is employed by a mostly black-player dominated NBA that just kowtowed to the Chinese government in reaction to his imparting AN OPINION. The shortness of memories here is stunningly amazing. Noah refuses a dinner with the militaristic war machine that is the US Army, and all the right things are said about "conscience" and "values" and "freedom of expression". Nothing doing about the fact he's pissing on his own multimillion dollar food bowl that a bunch of "kids" go fight and die for. At what amounts to minimum wage + benefits. Anyone GAF if the US Army doesn't like the NBA?

Maybe Morey would have been vilified as well for putting flowers in the muzzles of tanks at Tianmen Square? Go forth and explain the difference between those protesters and this Hong Kong contingent. Probably because they must have ties to the Orange Cheetoh, right?

I love this "shit on America and all these redneck ignorant republicans", and everything's fine. Dare to piss on a foreign totalitarian regime's bullshit strongarm tactics, and back off, because you're pissing in the food bowl. Whine about caged infants. Scream at the wall. Fuck the NRA up the wazoo. Do you give a fuck about the millions of infants that get aborted and killed in China simply because they're the wrong sex? Oh wait, that's good for business. Boys buy more NBA marketed stuff.

Being critical doesn't mean you automatically need to hold hostages until Cheetoh enacts boycotts on top of tariffs. This is America. Even an NBA exec should be able to tweet an opinion ABOUT WHAT'S OBVIOUSLY RIGHT without wondering about his checkbook. Or everyone else's.

Values. Or. Money. Interesting that there's a debate.

I agree with most of what you said. Yes, we "Should" be able to express a view without retribution. But we live in a world where outrage against private Chick-Fil-A is a bit anti gay in its Christian values and people will boycott against yummy chicken sandwiches. others will run and buy more Yumminess because they are closed on Sunday's and express anti gay views. My stance, they are a private company and the owner can donate his money as he wishes. If you don't want to support them then don't. Y

As for what is right or wrong perhaps using our Judeo-Christian values as the moral compass is the only guide posts might be a bit subjective? Some places its legal to end the life of your daughter or wife if she bought shame to you. Throw a gay man off a building because he is gay. Should we be selling basketball games to people like this?

They can buy the games. It is up to them. Or don't. It is up to them too.
But if they will buy the games and then will tell us we are some kind of Sodom&Gomorrah and we are offending then by our mere existence we just should ignore them.
China think that they can extort anything from us by taking some $$$ away. And they are right in this as we showed many times that this hurt us.
So it is time to show that we don't give a dam about it...

You didn't just pony up 2.2 billion for the rockets. The notion of "we" is not the same. You don't give a damn, but you did not pay a premium for an NBA franchise whose valuation was predicated on its popularity in China. Adidas paid Harden a premium to sell its shoes in China. He goes there on promo tours every year. So "We showing china whose boss" is not anything of consequence to your or I. Im sure there are many other considerations. Not that we care about billionairs and there billionaire problems but while the more we assimilate with each other the better countries of different cultures can better get along. Im not saying lack of Rocket basketball in china will lead to war but trade wars get ugly and have a history of bad endings.

Lets hope the things that unite us are more popular than what divides us.

We cannot unite. Eagle, Beer and Tiger cannot unite. Unless they decided to hunt and eat the zebra first or may be just hunt and then decide who eat first and how much.
We are different. We can and should coexist but not unite. There is no ground for this. I am sorry but this is an illusion.
Coalition leaders called Hither a gentlemen and Stalin a wise man back then before selling Pols and Czechs in Munich and we all know how this end up with the mountains of dead.
We better hold up to the "values" (whatever they are Judeo-Christian or just human) this time around because this time can be the last time. And it starts with small things.

Perhaps "Unite" was a bit much. I recall when we started cooling down with Soviet Russia by cultural exchange and when China got opened up. We find things in common, things we both like, share cultures, etc. Basketball!!!

No doubt bad piece is better that good war.
We have a lot in common but to share it we must recognize and respect the differences. All sides.
And never give up our values. Because otherwise haw can we be respected by anybody ourself included?

Am I the only one that thinks Morey is full of shit?

NardDogNation wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Morey is full of shit?

how so? Disingenuous? If so he cost a lot of people a lot of money!
Silver clarified my view. There are consequences. He is a better writer than I. Most attorney’s are.

I'd say the OP's question can be expanded to life. Never take the money.

The China reversal on the part of the NBA is a bit cowardly and GREEDY to me.
Many companies spoke their mind against Trump (and it ironically cost most of them $$$.) Perhaps the NBA see's that.
But that was never questioned. And now Steve Kerr has no comment on China? Doesn't understand the issue? lol
Enjoy your money Steve, NBA players.

The NBA has a chance to influence world politics here but is choosing money over humanity and compassion. They are siding with a police State of a country.
A human rights abuser. I am not shocked, unfortunately.

Nalod wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:100% money. Everything you see is done for money. Even the charity events are done for money. They want the league to look like a bunch of good guys so people feel better about watching them or spending money on them.

The NBA nor the Rockets don’t give a flying fudge about the trash China treats their citizens like. Maybe Morey does but if that gets in the way of billions of dollars, firing him wont even be thought about. They’ll just do it. Their
Explanation will continue to be “We don’t have political affiliations.”

China looks just as bad.

The NBA cares about its players and its fans. “Shut up and play” was an ugly statement to African Americans and the fans of that demographic. The Kneeling issue divided the NFL as it did not stand behind its players.

HOw many Chinese players are outraged the NBA does business in china? How many Chinese American fans are appalled by the NBA doing business there? We are talking about Morey making a statement about the Hong Kong issue. NOT what they are doing to Buddhists, to Peaceful Muslims etc.
Nobody is boycotting Chinese goods, Chinese olympics, etc. Remember when South Africa was boycotted because of its apartheid? We not even close to that.

I don’t think the NBA said “They don’t care”, they said they are basketball league that plays basketball and is not political. Right now we cage immigrant children and turn back people dying in other countries? We are a waring nation that turns its back on allies. Should us teams playing in Europe be judged by the actions of a government that does these things?

What is the point you are trying to make? This is borderline flight of ideas.

NBA cares about its players and its fans. Because of moral goodness? No, its good business.
Im paraphrasing here: "Do I care how the Chinese gov't behaves on its citizens"?
Ted Cruz tells us we be upset NBA said "we are not political"?
Did Morey offend the people of china or its gov't?
We love to point fingers so its easy to point to the NBA and say "Wow, you really sucked up to the Chinese gov't, shame on you"! Where is Ted Cruz on lax gun laws that are killing our children? Cages on immigrant detainees?
NBA owners are billionaires that employ a high % of black players and what redneck ignorant republican is gonna take sides on a "daggone entitled black multimillionaire"!!!! That's my point!
Personally If IM Fertitta the thought of firing Morey would have crossed my mind. He used this public persona as the GM of the highest profile NBA team in China as his personal platform to express his ideas. Im being very pragmatic here. Im not opposed to Morey's position. This is a discussion about pro sports and Profits. The NBA does not profit from Chinas human rights violations. WE not talking blood diamonds from South Africa. If we that outraged we should stop buying Chinese manufactured goods from over worked factory employees!
NBA as an American business profits from selling basketball viewership to China. TO be critical of the NBA you have to say we should not be exporting to china. We don't.

Morey's job is to construct a roster of basketball players to win games which increases revenue thru increased viewership. The Rockets due to Yao Ming's employment became a visable force for the NBA. Morey is a public figure who because of what he does. His personal views conflicted with his duties. If he is that conflicted by this he is free to quit his job and use that event as a platform to bring notice to the confict. He would be sacrificing. His choice. I would respect that a lot. Few athletes have done this. Boxing great Muhammad Ali sacrificed for his values. Michael Jordan might be very philanthropic toward social and political issues. If so he is private about it. His choice. He choosed to not use his fame as a platform. Lebron has and has not faced much backlash from the younger fans who he is marketed to. Magic Johnson has not been overly political. Bird has is private. Jabbar is very outspoken. Bill Russell in a different era used success as a platform to elevate his values. Red Auerbach and the Celtics were instrumental creating that environment. That was in America and we have our own internal debate. The issue we discuss is china.

I love Nalod. But borderline flight of ideas (except when it applies to posts on reinman) is an apt assessment most of the time. His intelligent insights get lost in his 60's stream-of-consciousness style.

What do we actually have here? A white executive who is employed by a mostly black-player dominated NBA that just kowtowed to the Chinese government in reaction to his imparting AN OPINION. The shortness of memories here is stunningly amazing. Noah refuses a dinner with the militaristic war machine that is the US Army, and all the right things are said about "conscience" and "values" and "freedom of expression". Nothing doing about the fact he's pissing on his own multimillion dollar food bowl that a bunch of "kids" go fight and die for. At what amounts to minimum wage + benefits. Anyone GAF if the US Army doesn't like the NBA?

Maybe Morey would have been vilified as well for putting flowers in the muzzles of tanks at Tianmen Square? Go forth and explain the difference between those protesters and this Hong Kong contingent. Probably because they must have ties to the Orange Cheetoh, right?

I love this "shit on America and all these redneck ignorant republicans", and everything's fine. Dare to piss on a foreign totalitarian regime's bullshit strongarm tactics, and back off, because you're pissing in the food bowl. Whine about caged infants. Scream at the wall. Fuck the NRA up the wazoo. Do you give a fuck about the millions of infants that get aborted and killed in China simply because they're the wrong sex? Oh wait, that's good for business. Boys buy more NBA marketed stuff.

Being critical doesn't mean you automatically need to hold hostages until Cheetoh enacts boycotts on top of tariffs. This is America. Even an NBA exec should be able to tweet an opinion ABOUT WHAT'S OBVIOUSLY RIGHT without wondering about his checkbook. Or everyone else's.

Values. Or. Money. Interesting that there's a debate.

I agree with most of what you said. Yes, we "Should" be able to express a view without retribution. But we live in a world where outrage against private Chick-Fil-A is a bit anti gay in its Christian values and people will boycott against yummy chicken sandwiches. others will run and buy more Yumminess because they are closed on Sunday's and express anti gay views. My stance, they are a private company and the owner can donate his money as he wishes. If you don't want to support them then don't. Y

As for what is right or wrong perhaps using our Judeo-Christian values as the moral compass is the only guide posts might be a bit subjective? Some places its legal to end the life of your daughter or wife if she bought shame to you. Throw a gay man off a building because he is gay. Should we be selling basketball games to people like this?

They can buy the games. It is up to them. Or don't. It is up to them too.
But if they will buy the games and then will tell us we are some kind of Sodom&Gomorrah and we are offending then by our mere existence we just should ignore them.
China think that they can extort anything from us by taking some $$$ away. And they are right in this as we showed many times that this hurt us.
So it is time to show that we don't give a dam about it...

You didn't just pony up 2.2 billion for the rockets. The notion of "we" is not the same. You don't give a damn, but you did not pay a premium for an NBA franchise whose valuation was predicated on its popularity in China. Adidas paid Harden a premium to sell its shoes in China. He goes there on promo tours every year. So "We showing china whose boss" is not anything of consequence to your or I. Im sure there are many other considerations. Not that we care about billionairs and there billionaire problems but while the more we assimilate with each other the better countries of different cultures can better get along. Im not saying lack of Rocket basketball in china will lead to war but trade wars get ugly and have a history of bad endings.

Lets hope the things that unite us are more popular than what divides us.

Yes! What is right is fluid depending on how much money is at stake.

I thought Silver handled it great! This is a business folks. Obviously Morey drew a line in the sand he did not know existed.
Revenue will be about 10-15% less. Owners valuations will be less. Sucks for a new owner like Tillman who paid a premium for the Chinese connections. I assume they profited from it. League I know does.

Some players have endorsement deals with Chinese companies and US companies that doe a lot of biz there. Players are free to say what they want, but if that view conflicts with business I expect a company can disassociate themselves with it. We are talking about the Chinese consumer but the Gov't there can block commerce with that company. Say what you want, but there are consequences to it. Silver was brilliant. League is not suppressing freedoms for expressions. But that don't mean your endorsements will stick! That's on the player not the league.

This was not offending a gender, lifestyle or ethnic group, this was a government! Trump just threw the Kurds under the bus. We don't look good either.
Trump owns a building in Turkey. Go figure.

“I have a little conflict of interest because I have a major, major building in Istanbul,” Trump said in 2015. “It’s a tremendously successful job. It’s called Trump Towers — two towers, instead of one, not the usual one, it’s two,” Trump said in an interview with Stephen Bannon, then chairman of Breitbart News.

Back on point, how is the NBA bowing down to the Chinese government on this issue? If the US gov't and by that any current or previous admins stand on their human rights issues why should the a private enterprise like the NBA do it?

arkrud wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:100% money. Everything you see is done for money. Even the charity events are done for money. They want the league to look like a bunch of good guys so people feel better about watching them or spending money on them.

The NBA nor the Rockets don’t give a flying fudge about the trash China treats their citizens like. Maybe Morey does but if that gets in the way of billions of dollars, firing him wont even be thought about. They’ll just do it. Their
Explanation will continue to be “We don’t have political affiliations.”

China looks just as bad.

The NBA cares about its players and its fans. “Shut up and play” was an ugly statement to African Americans and the fans of that demographic. The Kneeling issue divided the NFL as it did not stand behind its players.

HOw many Chinese players are outraged the NBA does business in china? How many Chinese American fans are appalled by the NBA doing business there? We are talking about Morey making a statement about the Hong Kong issue. NOT what they are doing to Buddhists, to Peaceful Muslims etc.
Nobody is boycotting Chinese goods, Chinese olympics, etc. Remember when South Africa was boycotted because of its apartheid? We not even close to that.

I don’t think the NBA said “They don’t care”, they said they are basketball league that plays basketball and is not political. Right now we cage immigrant children and turn back people dying in other countries? We are a waring nation that turns its back on allies. Should us teams playing in Europe be judged by the actions of a government that does these things?

Lets say China or people in other countries will blame us for our blunders and polices (or absence of such). And they constantly do and `sometimes rightfully so.
Do we respond with outrage and countermeasures? We as a country or people will never even blink.
We allow all people of the world and any countries state any opinion about America and Americans.
We respect freedom of others but China does not respect our freedoms. Period.
So let them go kick rocks.
NBA by the way retracted their position and now talking about their support for freedom of speech with some vague condition of:

Silver says it would be appropriate for people involved with the league “to be sensitive” to different cultures when tweeting or communicating.

Being "sensitive" to China imperialism is great. How about being sensitive to the faith of people whom China prosecute?
You give them a finger they with bite of your hand. Culture like China only respect power. Be firm with them and they respect you.
Get sensitive and they will disrespect and abuse you.
Understanding cultures and approaching them appropriately according to their values is the basics of successful diplomacy.
One cannot approach tiger as a cat without serious consequences.

So, you must have missed a significant chunk of this nation's history where we launched covert (and sometimes overt) operations that declared foreign leaders as enemies because of their political beliefs and rhetoric; and toppled sovereign nations to exploit those countries' national resources.

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Morey is full of shit?

how so? Disingenuous? If so he cost a lot of people a lot of money!
Silver clarified my view. There are consequences. He is a better writer than I. Most attorney’s are.

Most definitely, I think Morey was being disingenuous. The Catalan region of Spain was the Hong Kong of China just two years ago and I don't seem to recall Morey giving a flying-fuck about the abuses that were taking place there; not enough to tweet about it, anyway. Spain might not be the financial windfall that China is but its influence is felt heavily in the NBA's talent-pool e.g. Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Ricky Rubio, Jose Calderon, the Hernangomezs', etc. He even drafted one in Sergio Llull, just two years ago. So why no response?

And as woke as the NBA postures itself to be on social issues, I don't ever seem to recall Morey chiming in on any of them despite said issues heavily impacting the communities that most of his players and competitors hail from. One would think that things like the genocide taking place with the Flint Michigan water crisis; Standing Rock; living in a country with the highest rates of incarceration in spite of violent-crimes being on a steep decline; the repeal of fundamental liberties articulated in the Voting Rights Act, etc. would have elicited an empathetic reaction from him at some point. After all, these things are happening right in his back-yard and unlike China, he has an ability to help influence them as a citizen.

So why all of a sudden is there a cry for humanity? The reason is because it has nothing to do with humanity at all or general goodwill for his fellow man. It's just an empty gesture that was made easier because it involved non-white/European people. He's full of shit and I'm surprised more people aren't seeing through him.

P.S., I'm not a fan of the actions of the Chinese government or their social policies but too often people form hard-opinions on issues they don't have proper context on. I think we'd all be better informed if we began familiarizing ourselves with the two Opium Wars during the 19th century as well as the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, which can help understand why the Chinese government is so heavy-handed when foreign agents attempt to influence their affairs.

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Morey is full of shit?

how so? Disingenuous? If so he cost a lot of people a lot of money!
Silver clarified my view. There are consequences. He is a better writer than I. Most attorney’s are.

Most definitely, I think Morey was being disingenuous. The Catalan region of Spain was the Hong Kong of China just two years ago and I don't seem to recall Morey giving a flying-fuck about the abuses that were taking place there; not enough to tweet about it, anyway. Spain might not be the financial windfall that China is but its influence is felt heavily in the NBA's talent-pool e.g. Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Ricky Rubio, Jose Calderon, the Hernangomezs', etc. He even drafted one in Sergio Llull, just two years ago. So why no response?

And as woke as the NBA postures itself to be on social issues, I don't ever seem to recall Morey chiming in on any of them despite said issues heavily impacting the communities that most of his players and competitors hail from. One would think that things like the genocide taking place with the Flint Michigan water crisis; Standing Rock; living in a country with the highest rates of incarceration in spite of violent-crimes being on a steep decline; the repeal of fundamental liberties articulated in the Voting Rights Act, etc. would have elicited an empathetic reaction from him at some point. After all, these things are happening right in his back-yard and unlike China, he has an ability to help influence them as a citizen.

So why all of a sudden is there a cry for humanity? The reason is because it has nothing to do with humanity at all or general goodwill for his fellow man. It's just an empty gesture that was made easier because it involved non-white/European people. He's full of shit and I'm surprised more people aren't seeing through him.

I have never understood this type of argument and don't think it holds an ounce of validity.

When you make an argument or statement about something, anything, you don't also need to make similar statements about vaguely similar topics to your original.

Hundreds of thousands if not millions of people can make passionate statements about what is going on in Hong Kong without needing to do so in every other place or ANY other place to make their passion viable and palpable and well thought out (if that is the case).

You are making a blatantly incorrect assumption that Morey is informed of any other topic to WANT to make a public statement on and why you think he also needs to make a statement on Catalan region as a show of anything is beyond me.

Also, have you verified that he hasn't made any other statements? Or is did you just assume he didn't?

Commenting on how someone has NOT made a statement about a tangent topic, however similar, is not a valid argument technique.

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Morey is full of shit?

how so? Disingenuous? If so he cost a lot of people a lot of money!
Silver clarified my view. There are consequences. He is a better writer than I. Most attorney’s are.

Most definitely, I think Morey was being disingenuous. The Catalan region of Spain was the Hong Kong of China just two years ago and I don't seem to recall Morey giving a flying-fuck about the abuses that were taking place there; not enough to tweet about it, anyway. Spain might not be the financial windfall that China is but its influence is felt heavily in the NBA's talent-pool e.g. Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Ricky Rubio, Jose Calderon, the Hernangomezs', etc. He even drafted one in Sergio Llull, just two years ago. So why no response?

And as woke as the NBA postures itself to be on social issues, I don't ever seem to recall Morey chiming in on any of them despite said issues heavily impacting the communities that most of his players and competitors hail from. One would think that things like the genocide taking place with the Flint Michigan water crisis; Standing Rock; living in a country with the highest rates of incarceration in spite of violent-crimes being on a steep decline; the repeal of fundamental liberties articulated in the Voting Rights Act, etc. would have elicited an empathetic reaction from him at some point. After all, these things are happening right in his back-yard and unlike China, he has an ability to help influence them as a citizen.

So why all of a sudden is there a cry for humanity? The reason is because it has nothing to do with humanity at all or general goodwill for his fellow man. It's just an empty gesture that was made easier because it involved non-white/European people. He's full of shit and I'm surprised more people aren't seeing through him.

This issue has nothing to do with Morey. This is issue about free speech in US.
Whatever China government does is up to them. They are superpower and can do whatever they want. Especially in their own backyard.
But they have no business to demand American people to shoot up about stuff they do not want to hear.
And all of us also have no rights to shut up other people opinions.
Simply because this will apply back to all of us.
If some people cannot speak freely why others can?
The freedoms we have worth more that all money in the world.
So some cache NBA can lose because of China get agitated is nothing to talk about.

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Morey is full of shit?

how so? Disingenuous? If so he cost a lot of people a lot of money!
Silver clarified my view. There are consequences. He is a better writer than I. Most attorney’s are.

Most definitely, I think Morey was being disingenuous. The Catalan region of Spain was the Hong Kong of China just two years ago and I don't seem to recall Morey giving a flying-fuck about the abuses that were taking place there; not enough to tweet about it, anyway. Spain might not be the financial windfall that China is but its influence is felt heavily in the NBA's talent-pool e.g. Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Ricky Rubio, Jose Calderon, the Hernangomezs', etc. He even drafted one in Sergio Llull, just two years ago. So why no response?

And as woke as the NBA postures itself to be on social issues, I don't ever seem to recall Morey chiming in on any of them despite said issues heavily impacting the communities that most of his players and competitors hail from. One would think that things like the genocide taking place with the Flint Michigan water crisis; Standing Rock; living in a country with the highest rates of incarceration in spite of violent-crimes being on a steep decline; the repeal of fundamental liberties articulated in the Voting Rights Act, etc. would have elicited an empathetic reaction from him at some point. After all, these things are happening right in his back-yard and unlike China, he has an ability to help influence them as a citizen.

So why all of a sudden is there a cry for humanity? The reason is because it has nothing to do with humanity at all or general goodwill for his fellow man. It's just an empty gesture that was made easier because it involved non-white/European people. He's full of shit and I'm surprised more people aren't seeing through him.

I have never understood this type of argument and don't think it holds an ounce of validity.

When you make an argument or statement about something, anything, you don't also need to make similar statements about vaguely similar topics to your original.

Hundreds of thousands if not millions of people can make passionate statements about what is going on in Hong Kong without needing to do so in every other place or ANY other place to make their passion viable and palpable and well thought out (if that is the case).

You are making a blatantly incorrect assumption that Morey is informed of any other topic to WANT to make a public statement on and why you think he also needs to make a statement on Catalan region as a show of anything is beyond me.

Also, have you verified that he hasn't made any other statements? Or is did you just assume he didn't?

Commenting on how someone has NOT made a statement about a tangent topic, however similar, is not a valid argument technique.

+1
And thank you.

"And if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
Ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow..."

I guess people are never full of shit if they're busy shitting on the US and selected other white/Euros... SMFH

LeQ to NBA Execs: Shut up and sign checks!
https://nypost.com/2019/10/15/lebron-jam...

arkrud wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Morey is full of shit?

how so? Disingenuous? If so he cost a lot of people a lot of money!
Silver clarified my view. There are consequences. He is a better writer than I. Most attorney’s are.

Most definitely, I think Morey was being disingenuous. The Catalan region of Spain was the Hong Kong of China just two years ago and I don't seem to recall Morey giving a flying-fuck about the abuses that were taking place there; not enough to tweet about it, anyway. Spain might not be the financial windfall that China is but its influence is felt heavily in the NBA's talent-pool e.g. Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Ricky Rubio, Jose Calderon, the Hernangomezs', etc. He even drafted one in Sergio Llull, just two years ago. So why no response?

And as woke as the NBA postures itself to be on social issues, I don't ever seem to recall Morey chiming in on any of them despite said issues heavily impacting the communities that most of his players and competitors hail from. One would think that things like the genocide taking place with the Flint Michigan water crisis; Standing Rock; living in a country with the highest rates of incarceration in spite of violent-crimes being on a steep decline; the repeal of fundamental liberties articulated in the Voting Rights Act, etc. would have elicited an empathetic reaction from him at some point. After all, these things are happening right in his back-yard and unlike China, he has an ability to help influence them as a citizen.

So why all of a sudden is there a cry for humanity? The reason is because it has nothing to do with humanity at all or general goodwill for his fellow man. It's just an empty gesture that was made easier because it involved non-white/European people. He's full of shit and I'm surprised more people aren't seeing through him.

This issue has nothing to do with Morey. This is issue about free speech in US.
Whatever China government does is up to them. They are superpower and can do whatever they want. Especially in their own backyard.
But they have no business to demand American people to shoot up about stuff they do not want to hear.
And all of us also have no rights to shut up other people opinions.
Simply because this will apply back to all of us.
If some people cannot speak freely why others can?
The freedoms we have worth more that all money in the world.
So some cache NBA can lose because of China get agitated is nothing to talk about.

Thing is Morey hasn't been charged with a crime or fired from his job. His rights and freedoms in America are still intack. And even if he was fired it would be the owner exercising his freedoms and rights to take the route which will make him the most profit(See Kapernick). And if the owner got boycotted for that decision by Americans. It would be Americans exercising their rights to support what they want based off their views.

Its possible that if Morey cost this much money for others while living in another country he would be dead right now.

But at the end of the day money is the motive and deciding factor in pretty much all decisions here in the US. Even the ones we think are moral. That has been the reality.

I mean Trump was elected President here.

Should the NBA us its power, money and influence to impact positive social change for human rights while also potentially risking the monetary returns it gains by doing so. IMO yes it should, but that should go across the board for all people and entities in positions of power, money and influence. Which isn't reality.

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Morey is full of shit?

how so? Disingenuous? If so he cost a lot of people a lot of money!
Silver clarified my view. There are consequences. He is a better writer than I. Most attorney’s are.

Most definitely, I think Morey was being disingenuous. The Catalan region of Spain was the Hong Kong of China just two years ago and I don't seem to recall Morey giving a flying-fuck about the abuses that were taking place there; not enough to tweet about it, anyway. Spain might not be the financial windfall that China is but its influence is felt heavily in the NBA's talent-pool e.g. Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Ricky Rubio, Jose Calderon, the Hernangomezs', etc. He even drafted one in Sergio Llull, just two years ago. So why no response?

And as woke as the NBA postures itself to be on social issues, I don't ever seem to recall Morey chiming in on any of them despite said issues heavily impacting the communities that most of his players and competitors hail from. One would think that things like the genocide taking place with the Flint Michigan water crisis; Standing Rock; living in a country with the highest rates of incarceration in spite of violent-crimes being on a steep decline; the repeal of fundamental liberties articulated in the Voting Rights Act, etc. would have elicited an empathetic reaction from him at some point. After all, these things are happening right in his back-yard and unlike China, he has an ability to help influence them as a citizen.

So why all of a sudden is there a cry for humanity? The reason is because it has nothing to do with humanity at all or general goodwill for his fellow man. It's just an empty gesture that was made easier because it involved non-white/European people. He's full of shit and I'm surprised more people aren't seeing through him.

This issue has nothing to do with Morey. This is issue about free speech in US.
Whatever China government does is up to them. They are superpower and can do whatever they want. Especially in their own backyard.
But they have no business to demand American people to shoot up about stuff they do not want to hear.
And all of us also have no rights to shut up other people opinions.
Simply because this will apply back to all of us.
If some people cannot speak freely why others can?
The freedoms we have worth more that all money in the world.
So some cache NBA can lose because of China get agitated is nothing to talk about.

Thing is Morey hasn't been charged with a crime or fired from his job. His rights and freedoms in America are still intack. And even if he was fired it would be the owner exercising his freedoms and rights to take the route which will make him the most profit(See Kapernick). And if the owner got boycotted for that decision by Americans. It would be Americans exercising their rights to support what they want based off their views.

Its possible that if Morey cost this much money for others while living in another country he would be dead right now.

But at the end of the day money is the motive and deciding factor in pretty much all decisions here in the US. Even the ones we think are moral. That has been the reality.

I mean Trump was elected President here.

Should the NBA us its power, money and influence to impact positive social change for human rights while also potentially risking the monetary returns it gains by doing so. IMO yes it should, but that should go across the board for all people and entities in positions of power, money and influence. Which isn't reality.

We absolutely have rights to express our opinion about this, positive or negative, and argue about it freely without consequences.
This not the case in many countries of the world to the extend it can cost people not just money but life.
And we should be grateful that we have this freedoms in US. Of course in the framework of the law.
Freedom is an agreement to follow the rule of law, not anarchy which is total luck of freedom, or totalitarianism which is total luck of law.
Even if some laws in this country are unjust, outdated, or flowed, it is important to follow them as written.
And fight for improving them through all legals means we have. No other way was discovered by humanity to make life better.

NardDogNation wrote:P.S., I'm not a fan of the actions of the Chinese government or their social policies but too often people form hard-opinions on issues they don't have proper context on. I think we'd all be better informed if we began familiarizing ourselves with the two Opium Wars during the 19th century as well as the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, which can help understand why the Chinese government is so heavy-handed when foreign agents attempt to influence their affairs.

This and your previous posts are horseshit. What's right or wrong isn't determined unrelated events here. You obviously have no problem stating the ills(rightly) of this country. Why would that give a pass to what's going on there. What's going on there is wrong despite the historical context. In fact right and wrong are not dependent on that at all. Morey was fine in his initial tweet. The NBA and Lebron are trying into enforce China's censorship so the can have more cash. In fact, Lebron was demanding that Morey be punished somehow by the NBA.

jrodmc wrote:

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Am I the only one that thinks Morey is full of shit?

how so? Disingenuous? If so he cost a lot of people a lot of money!
Silver clarified my view. There are consequences. He is a better writer than I. Most attorney’s are.

Most definitely, I think Morey was being disingenuous. The Catalan region of Spain was the Hong Kong of China just two years ago and I don't seem to recall Morey giving a flying-fuck about the abuses that were taking place there; not enough to tweet about it, anyway. Spain might not be the financial windfall that China is but its influence is felt heavily in the NBA's talent-pool e.g. Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Ricky Rubio, Jose Calderon, the Hernangomezs', etc. He even drafted one in Sergio Llull, just two years ago. So why no response?

And as woke as the NBA postures itself to be on social issues, I don't ever seem to recall Morey chiming in on any of them despite said issues heavily impacting the communities that most of his players and competitors hail from. One would think that things like the genocide taking place with the Flint Michigan water crisis; Standing Rock; living in a country with the highest rates of incarceration in spite of violent-crimes being on a steep decline; the repeal of fundamental liberties articulated in the Voting Rights Act, etc. would have elicited an empathetic reaction from him at some point. After all, these things are happening right in his back-yard and unlike China, he has an ability to help influence them as a citizen.

So why all of a sudden is there a cry for humanity? The reason is because it has nothing to do with humanity at all or general goodwill for his fellow man. It's just an empty gesture that was made easier because it involved non-white/European people. He's full of shit and I'm surprised more people aren't seeing through him.

I have never understood this type of argument and don't think it holds an ounce of validity.

When you make an argument or statement about something, anything, you don't also need to make similar statements about vaguely similar topics to your original.

Hundreds of thousands if not millions of people can make passionate statements about what is going on in Hong Kong without needing to do so in every other place or ANY other place to make their passion viable and palpable and well thought out (if that is the case).

You are making a blatantly incorrect assumption that Morey is informed of any other topic to WANT to make a public statement on and why you think he also needs to make a statement on Catalan region as a show of anything is beyond me.

Also, have you verified that he hasn't made any other statements? Or is did you just assume he didn't?

Commenting on how someone has NOT made a statement about a tangent topic, however similar, is not a valid argument technique.

+1
And thank you.

"And if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
Ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow..."

I guess people are never full of shit if they're busy shitting on the US and selected other white/Euros... SMFH

I think it's part of being 'cultured and worldly'. It's a faux sophistication you get from disdaining your own country while pretending others have massive layers of nuance that your idiot countrymen dont get.