Knicks · NBA Scout Bryan Oringher Breaks Down the Knicks (page 1)

I sat down with Bryan Oringher from www.scoutwithbryan.com and talked Knicks. We broke down the roster! Check it out!

NBK wrote:I sat down with Bryan Oringher from www.scoutwithbryan.com and talked Knicks. We broke down the roster! Check it out!

Nice. While I don't always agree with his takes, he does always bring up things I never considered.

NBK wrote:I sat down with Bryan Oringher from www.scoutwithbryan.com and talked Knicks. We broke down the roster! Check it out!

nice and thanks for posting your videos, love them

Wow....I'm a little worried about the RJ Barret/Joe Ingles comparison. Joe is a nice player, but I'm hoping for little more from RJ.

BigDaddyG wrote:Wow....I'm a little worried about the RJ Barret/Joe Ingles comparison. Joe is a nice player, but I'm hoping for little more from RJ.

Yes, I think many of us felt that way. To be honest, I think Iggy can surpass those expectations. Iggy might actually be a special player.
RJ has a high ceiling but I really wonder in the long run, who will be the better offensive player. Defensively I think RJ will eventually be very good.

Was thinking RJ is way to young to pigeon hole him but consider what Oringher said:
"Ingles is a constant performer on a 50 win team and should be making 20mil a year". That's not a slight.
From what I have seen of RJ and his considering his build at age 19 I think he could at worst be Igudola and if he can shoot Gordon Haywood. Haywood ran the point a lot in Utah. I saw this kid in Utah home game a few years back and he was a total package. Iggy never really turned into the offensive player in Philly got earned him the big contract but he was damn good!

As for Iggy Bratz? Lets see how he moves from summer league hype to the big show before we get the fever.

i have no worries about rj. he’s super opportunistic on offense and exerts his will on a game. very confident and aggressive mindset and i think his skills will get more refined and his judgment will improve with experience.

Marv wrote:i have no worries about rj. he’s super opportunistic on offense and exerts his will on a game. very confident and aggressive mindset and i think his skills will get more refined and his judgment will improve with experience.

I was totally impressed by his physical profile and demeanor on the court for his age. Really wild. You can tell he's not only been groomed for this but he wants it and is driven. He seems backed by good people. I really think he's more like a Caron Butler/Paul Pierce type. Mix of strength, skill, intensity... really excited about his start and how he rebounded after a slow start in the SL as well

fishmike wrote:

Marv wrote:i have no worries about rj. he’s super opportunistic on offense and exerts his will on a game. very confident and aggressive mindset and i think his skills will get more refined and his judgment will improve with experience.

I was totally impressed by his physical profile and demeanor on the court for his age. Really wild. You can tell he's not only been groomed for this but he wants it and is driven. He seems backed by good people. I really think he's more like a Caron Butler/Paul Pierce type. Mix of strength, skill, intensity... really excited about his start and how he rebounded after a slow start in the SL as well

Facts are rookies are inconsistent. This is who he is now. He is two years away........
From what? Some mashup of goodness we hope!
I think his floor is Harrison Barnes.

Nalod wrote:Was thinking RJ is way to young to pigeon hole him but consider what Oringher said:
"Ingles is a constant performer on a 50 win team and should be making 20mil a year". That's not a slight.
From what I have seen of RJ and his considering his build at age 19 I think he could at worst be Igudola and if he can shoot Gordon Haywood. Haywood ran the point a lot in Utah. I saw this kid in Utah home game a few years back and he was a total package. Iggy never really turned into the offensive player in Philly got earned him the big contract but he was damn good!

As for Iggy Bratz? Lets see how he moves from summer league hype to the big show before we get the fever.

The Ingles comp is bad because Ingle is one of the better outside shooters in the league, but lacks some of the other attributes RJ brings. RJ is a drive and finish player, Ingles isn't really. Brazdeikis is closer to Ingles in my opinion, as far as being a lefty combo forward who is crafty and has a favorable outside shot. For RJ, young Iguodala is a closer comp, or Jalen Rose. I also heard Brandon Roy which makes more sense.

BigDaddyG wrote:Wow....I'm a little worried about the RJ Barret/Joe Ingles comparison. Joe is a nice player, but I'm hoping for little more from RJ.

1) Igles might be a good floor. Though by all accounts, Barrett seems to be an elite rebounder for his size/position. If we're saying Igles should be making $20m, another somewhat similar (but lesser) do-it-all glue player is one of our fave Ntilikina comps, Nic Batum ($35m/yr), but he's not nearly as impactful as Ingles.

2) RJ is a much more impressive physical specimen (better physical tools) AND probably could be as productive as 32 year old Ingles (and Nic and Frank) NOW at age 19.

But then there's the upside element. He calls out RJ's lack of in-between game. Advanced scouting metrics say that the in-between game is inefficient and useless (that's Carmelo Anthony's key territory as well as that of many of the great scorers in history like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant), but if you can score near the basket, hit from three, and have the in-between game, you're now elite. He's still adding elements to his game, gaining more wiggle (as they say), he has his eurostep, he makes plays for his team.

I can see him peaking out as Joe Johnson or Paul Pierce. Two wings that could handle the ball almost like PGs, score, dish... (basically, Igles with better scoring).

Keep in mind that RJ was a much better player than Coach K's recent disciples: Ingram and Tatum. It'd be surprising if he had a hard time matching their performance in the NBA. Neither of those guys has markedly better tools than RJ, but they've both shown success as scorers thus far in their careers.

Oringher is generally a balanced and a bit conservative scout, giving pros and cons of each player, though his negative bit always get singled out and quoted by the media and make headlines. He's been quoted on RJ Barrett numerous times in the past.
https://sports.yahoo.com/scouts-discuss-...

BigDaddyG wrote:Wow....I'm a little worried about the RJ Barret/Joe Ingles comparison. Joe is a nice player, but I'm hoping for little more from RJ.

Am I a hater if all I see in RJ is Evan Turner-redux?

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Wow....I'm a little worried about the RJ Barret/Joe Ingles comparison. Joe is a nice player, but I'm hoping for little more from RJ.

Am I a hater if all I see in RJ is Evan Turner-redux?

Dif't games, but I could see that being RJ's floor in the worst cas scenario. Evan Turner is a nice versatile, 8th man type. I hope RJ at least becomes a starter. But that comparison, even if it's not based on reality scares me. Turner was the 2nd overall pick in his draft...

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Wow....I'm a little worried about the RJ Barret/Joe Ingles comparison. Joe is a nice player, but I'm hoping for little more from RJ.

Am I a hater if all I see in RJ is Evan Turner-redux?

Dif't games, but I could see that being RJ's floor in the worst cas scenario. Evan Turner is a nice versatile, 8th man type. I hope RJ at least becomes a starter. But that comparison, even if it's not based on reality scares me. Turner was the 2nd overall pick in his draft...

Are their games really different? Turner never seemed to have a scorer's mentality but I seem to remember him being a Swiss-army knife player as well. He was a shitty perimeter shooter but adept at getting to and finishing at the rim; was an above average rebounder for his position and showed an ability to orchestrate for others that wasn't publicized as much as it should have been since he was surrounded with our capable facilitators. That profile and pedigree heading into the draft seems to match Barrett's game alot.

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Wow....I'm a little worried about the RJ Barret/Joe Ingles comparison. Joe is a nice player, but I'm hoping for little more from RJ.

Am I a hater if all I see in RJ is Evan Turner-redux?

Dif't games, but I could see that being RJ's floor in the worst cas scenario. Evan Turner is a nice versatile, 8th man type. I hope RJ at least becomes a starter. But that comparison, even if it's not based on reality scares me. Turner was the 2nd overall pick in his draft...

Are their games really different? Turner never seemed to have a scorer's mentality but I seem to remember him being a Swiss-army knife player as well. He was a shitty perimeter shooter but adept at getting to and finishing at the rim; was an above average rebounder for his position and showed an ability to orchestrate for others that wasn't publicized as much as it should have been since he was surrounded with our capable facilitators. That profile and pedigree heading into the draft seems to match Barrett's game alot.

Turner was actually pretty weak at the rim. That's why he had to rely on his spotty mid range game. I'd say Turner had a more advanced mid range game and RJ is more of a downhill to the rim guy. I see that what you're saying tho...pedigree is no guarantee.

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Wow....I'm a little worried about the RJ Barret/Joe Ingles comparison. Joe is a nice player, but I'm hoping for little more from RJ.

Am I a hater if all I see in RJ is Evan Turner-redux?

Dif't games, but I could see that being RJ's floor in the worst cas scenario. Evan Turner is a nice versatile, 8th man type. I hope RJ at least becomes a starter. But that comparison, even if it's not based on reality scares me. Turner was the 2nd overall pick in his draft...

Are their games really different? Turner never seemed to have a scorer's mentality but I seem to remember him being a Swiss-army knife player as well. He was a shitty perimeter shooter but adept at getting to and finishing at the rim; was an above average rebounder for his position and showed an ability to orchestrate for others that wasn't publicized as much as it should have been since he was surrounded with our capable facilitators. That profile and pedigree heading into the draft seems to match Barrett's game alot.

Turner was actually pretty weak at the rim. That's why he had to rely on his spotty mid range game. I'd say Turner had a more advanced mid range game and RJ is more of a downhill to the rim guy. I see that what you're saying tho...pedigree is no guarantee.

You're right; it's not a good comp. It's weird but for some reason thought he was pretty good at drawing fouls and finishing through contact but that wasn't the case, from what little I could gather from his advanced numbers. Just out of curiosity, who would you compare him to and why? Also, are there any books on bball analytics you'd recommend?

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Wow....I'm a little worried about the RJ Barret/Joe Ingles comparison. Joe is a nice player, but I'm hoping for little more from RJ.

Am I a hater if all I see in RJ is Evan Turner-redux?

Dif't games, but I could see that being RJ's floor in the worst cas scenario. Evan Turner is a nice versatile, 8th man type. I hope RJ at least becomes a starter. But that comparison, even if it's not based on reality scares me. Turner was the 2nd overall pick in his draft...

Are their games really different? Turner never seemed to have a scorer's mentality but I seem to remember him being a Swiss-army knife player as well. He was a shitty perimeter shooter but adept at getting to and finishing at the rim; was an above average rebounder for his position and showed an ability to orchestrate for others that wasn't publicized as much as it should have been since he was surrounded with our capable facilitators. That profile and pedigree heading into the draft seems to match Barrett's game alot.

Turner was actually pretty weak at the rim. That's why he had to rely on his spotty mid range game. I'd say Turner had a more advanced mid range game and RJ is more of a downhill to the rim guy. I see that what you're saying tho...pedigree is no guarantee.

You're right; it's not a good comp. It's weird but for some reason thought he was pretty good at drawing fouls and finishing through contact but that wasn't the case, from what little I could gather from his advanced numbers. Just out of curiosity, who would you compare him to and why? Also, are there any books on bball analytics you'd recommend?

Have you read Dean Oliver's "Basketball on paper : rules and tools for performance analysis"? It kind of started it all. I used to read John Hollinger's and Kevin Pelton's annual Pro Basketball Prospectus, but that series waned down after they got snatched by ESPN. I used a Caron Butler as a ceiling for RJ before. Butler was a really good physical offensive player who just lacked the athleticism or superior physical tools to be considered a true "star." His floor could be that of a key bench guy, maybe sixth man. It's hard for me to project. Does he develop a post or pull up game? Does he become a better spot up shooter?

Iggy Bratz summer league fever not the same as the big show.

Nalod wrote:Iggy Bratz summer league fever not the same as the big show.

7 minutes in his first preseason game has definitely solidified Iggy's first year and probably his career at this point.

Berman was hot to catch that fever and stamp it out with a full article on the Knicks' second round pick... [checks notes]... who was drafted 47th.

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Iggy Bratz summer league fever not the same as the big show.

7 minutes in his first preseason game has definitely solidified Iggy's first year and probably his career at this point.

Berman was hot to catch that fever and stamp it out with a full article on the Knicks' second round pick... [checks notes]... who was drafted 47th.

The best thing in the article was the contract information. Iggy is locked up for 3 years.

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Iggy Bratz summer league fever not the same as the big show.

7 minutes in his first preseason game has definitely solidified Iggy's first year and probably his career at this point.

Berman was hot to catch that fever and stamp it out with a full article on the Knicks' second round pick... [checks notes]... who was drafted 47th.

The best thing in the article was the contract information. Iggy is locked up for 3 years.

Yup agreed. 3rd year team option