did anyone watch the game? Why is it we played this team before and looked like world beaters? And now, we're losing to a team that isn't supposed to do well at all.
franco12 wrote:did anyone watch the game? Why is it we played this team before and looked like world beaters? And now, we're losing to a team that isn't supposed to do well at all.
Silly, unnecessary, mental midget fouls on both ends of the court. Guys not playing team ball. Guys jacking up 3-point shots early in the clock ala Houston without being at that level.
Payton couldn't hit a shot at all (don't think he was a singular fail point but he was brutal on O, impressed with his D).
Feel like I saw Randle dribble directly into a double and triple team swarm of defenders multiple times over. I think he is overly looking to prove himself - especially with first game at MSG - instead of letting the game come to him.
I wasn't watching closely enough know if Wizards were hot from deep themselves, if the Knicks didn't guard the 3-point line at all or a combo of both.
Team went up early 2nd quarter and then forgot that they suck too and stopped playing smart and hard. Wizards were playing for pride and NY not.
Not a good look for a 17 win team. If I was Fizdale, I would have benched everyone and played the guys who wont make the team. Embarrasing EFFORT!!!
Bad attitude.
As soon as Frank picked up the foul to put him on the bench it was all down hill.
Vmart wrote:As soon as Frank picked up the foul to put him on the bench it was all down hill.
Frank shot 28% from the field and had 5 fouls in 19 mins...He had a bad game just like most of his teammates!! Cut it out with the Frank Propaganda BS!!
franco12 wrote:did anyone watch the game? Why is it we played this team before and looked like world beaters? And now, we're losing to a team that isn't supposed to do well at all.
Fell asleep in the 4th. While I was awake, didnt see nearly as much dribble penetration by our PGs. Knox was out as well, he was getting to the rim, pushing the tempo. We have good, veteran post players, but if our PGs dont get to the rim, the offense stagnates, too much ISO. Hoping Smith jr, will help open things up for the offense. Knox as well, when he gets back.
Uptown wrote:Vmart wrote:As soon as Frank picked up the foul to put him on the bench it was all down hill.
Frank shot 28% from the field and had 5 fouls in 19 mins...He had a bad game just like most of his teammates!! Cut it out with the Frank Propaganda BS!!
They were also upping the lead before his foul. That sent him to the bench. This isn’t propaganda it’s just a fact of reality. Frank had a bad game and the team needs him on the floor. He can’t foul like that. The Knicks need him available at all times so fouling like he did made himself unavailable when they needed him the most.
Other than that Frank is the best PG on this team live with it.
If we continue with this lack of team ball Fiz might just have to be on the line. Only 2nd game tho so I wouldn't worry but that has to be dealt with.
Maybe the Fiz watch can wait until after say the first regular season game -- or do we give him two?
TPercy wrote:If we continue with this lack of team ball Fiz might just have to be on the line. Only 2nd game tho so I wouldn't worry but that has to be dealt with.
No, the coaching carousel has to stop- he's had one season and two preseason games. He should stay for his contract. If we keep firing coaches every year or two, no one of note will ever want to come here.
KnickDanger wrote:Maybe the Fiz watch can wait until after say the first regular season game -- or do we give him two?
I'm just saying that this is something to watch out for going into the season because we struggled heavily with it last year.
Bruh we don’t have the personnel to justify firing the coach in season even if we are the worst team in the league
I think if the effort is not there, then there is something wrong. Why does Atkinson get the Nets to play hard. I don't think the NEts of last year were any better than this team. Yet when I see effort geing bad, that is team mentality that is poor.
Fiz needs to put an identity on this team. What is it going to be? If it doesn't happen this year, it will never happen. And he has to go then.
martin wrote:franco12 wrote:did anyone watch the game? Why is it we played this team before and looked like world beaters? And now, we're losing to a team that isn't supposed to do well at all.
Silly, unnecessary, mental midget fouls on both ends of the court. Guys not playing team ball. Guys jacking up 3-point shots early in the clock ala Houston without being at that level.
Payton couldn't hit a shot at all (don't think he was a singular fail point but he was brutal on O, impressed with his D).
Feel like I saw Randle dribble directly into a double and triple team swarm of defenders multiple times over. I think he is overly looking to prove himself - especially with first game at MSG - instead of letting the game come to him.
I wasn't watching closely enough know if Wizards were hot from deep themselves, if the Knicks didn't guard the 3-point line at all or a combo of both.
I think our inability to adequately defend the 3-point shot was no help either. That second quarter, in particular, seemed to end us early. Beal got cooking and the rest was history. Even without him in the game, they kept bombing from deep and it just fell for them. Playing zone certainly didn't help matters although I like some of the switching I saw when we played man. It's going to be a long system but I think switching is the most effective defensive strategy we have at the moment.
smackeddog wrote:TPercy wrote:If we continue with this lack of team ball Fiz might just have to be on the line. Only 2nd game tho so I wouldn't worry but that has to be dealt with.
No, the coaching carousel has to stop- he's had one season and two preseason games. He should stay for his contract. If we keep firing coaches every year or two, no one of note will ever want to come here.
I'm a Fizdale skeptic but I agree with you. We've had Hall of Fame-caliber coaches (albeit at the end of their careers) and have consistently managed to be huge disappointments. It's clearly not a coaching issue we have but an organizational one. I'm not entirely sure how you fix something like that but continuity might be a good start.
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I think if the effort is not there, then there is something wrong. Why does Atkinson get the Nets to play hard. I don't think the NEts of last year were any better than this team. Yet when I see effort geing bad, that is team mentality that is poor.Fiz needs to put an identity on this team. What is it going to be? If it doesn't happen this year, it will never happen. And he has to go then.
It's hard to develop an identity when you have players that don't fit. It's the equivalent of trying to put together a puzzle with mismatched pieces. I'm a Fizdale skeptic but I'm already out on this front office, who are to blame for putting him in such a difficult position. Hopefully we'll be able to fix this roster with trades at the deadline.
Fortunately, it's not all doom-and-gloom. We have some compelling young talent that just needs shooters around them that can hopefully defend. They won't be winning many games even if they get that but at the very least, they'd be able to refine some of their offensive skills by having better spacing on the floor, which would help get them better quality reps at getting to the rim and orchestrating for others.
Ideally, I'd like to start the following: (G) Ntilikina, (G) Dotson, (F) Barrett, (F) Knox, (C) Mitchell
Keep: (G) Alonzo Trier, (G) Kadeem Allen, (C) Taj Gibson, (F) Wayne Ellington and (F) Reggie Bullock
...and then use the rest to recoup assets in the way of complimentary role players and draft pick compensation.
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I think if the effort is not there, then there is something wrong. Why does Atkinson get the Nets to play hard. I don't think the NEts of last year were any better than this team. Yet when I see effort geing bad, that is team mentality that is poor.Fiz needs to put an identity on this team. What is it going to be? If it doesn't happen this year, it will never happen. And he has to go then.
There was a really good twitter thread about this. It was written by a posting and toasting contributor who doesn’t write often but puts out high quality stuff when he does. He talked about Atkinson committing to a system/style versus a coach adjusting the style the team plays to it’s personnel. He said Fiz is the later type of coach. He made a lot of good points. I will try to find the thread.
NardDogNation wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I think if the effort is not there, then there is something wrong. Why does Atkinson get the Nets to play hard. I don't think the NEts of last year were any better than this team. Yet when I see effort geing bad, that is team mentality that is poor.Fiz needs to put an identity on this team. What is it going to be? If it doesn't happen this year, it will never happen. And he has to go then.
It's hard to develop an identity when you have players that don't fit. It's the equivalent of trying to put together a puzzle with mismatched pieces. I'm a Fizdale skeptic but I'm already out on this front office, who are to blame for putting him in such a difficult position. Hopefully we'll be able to fix this roster with trades at the deadline.
Fortunately, it's not all doom-and-gloom. We have some compelling young talent that just needs shooters around them that can hopefully defend. They won't be winning many games even if they get that but at the very least, they'd be able to refine some of their offensive skills by having better spacing on the floor, which would help get them better quality reps at getting to the rim and orchestrating for others.
Ideally, I'd like to start the following: (G) Ntilikina, (G) Dotson, (F) Barrett, (F) Knox, (C) Mitchell
Keep: (G) Alonzo Trier, (G) Kadeem Allen, (C) Taj Gibson, (F) Wayne Ellington and (F) Reggie Bullock
...and then use the rest to recoup assets in the way of complimentary role players and draft pick compensation.
I like the way you’re thinking. The idea of having a home grown team starting is very appealing.
Vmart wrote:NardDogNation wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I think if the effort is not there, then there is something wrong. Why does Atkinson get the Nets to play hard. I don't think the NEts of last year were any better than this team. Yet when I see effort geing bad, that is team mentality that is poor.Fiz needs to put an identity on this team. What is it going to be? If it doesn't happen this year, it will never happen. And he has to go then.
It's hard to develop an identity when you have players that don't fit. It's the equivalent of trying to put together a puzzle with mismatched pieces. I'm a Fizdale skeptic but I'm already out on this front office, who are to blame for putting him in such a difficult position. Hopefully we'll be able to fix this roster with trades at the deadline.
Fortunately, it's not all doom-and-gloom. We have some compelling young talent that just needs shooters around them that can hopefully defend. They won't be winning many games even if they get that but at the very least, they'd be able to refine some of their offensive skills by having better spacing on the floor, which would help get them better quality reps at getting to the rim and orchestrating for others.
Ideally, I'd like to start the following: (G) Ntilikina, (G) Dotson, (F) Barrett, (F) Knox, (C) Mitchell
Keep: (G) Alonzo Trier, (G) Kadeem Allen, (C) Taj Gibson, (F) Wayne Ellington and (F) Reggie Bullock
...and then use the rest to recoup assets in the way of complimentary role players and draft pick compensation.
I like the way you’re thinking. The idea of having a home grown team starting is very appealing.
It would represent a shift toward developing our homegrown talent AND it fits the profile that Fizdale supposedly wants our team to be: positionless, versatile and long. I think that unit would have a real opportunity to develop into a dominant defensive team because we could switch everything and would have the wingspan to consistently close out on shooters and deny passing lanes.
Offensively, things might get a bit dicey though. We wouldn't have any proven scorers in that lineup, which means we'd have to push the tempo and rely heavily on system basketball to create our shots like the Kings did last year. IMO, that would be ideal since it would force our players to think the game more and dissuade the iso-ball tendencies from guys like Barrett and Knox, who will likely be higher-usage players in the future. It would also feel Heat-esque since they never had traditional playmaking guards, relying on the likes of Mario Chalmers, Justise Winslow, Tyler Johnson and Josh Richardson to initiate their sets (I think Frank is and will be a supped up version of what those players have been). And since Fizdale has been inside the X's and O's for running that type of offense, I think there would be a reasonable chance for success with that group, in that type of system. Coupled with tremendous defensive upside and I see the makings of an actual identity we could cultivate and refine...
Wizards won comfortably because they had an offensive flow, played smart and (big surprise) they hit their shots. New York did none of those things. I'm starting to believe that we easily have 30 plus win talent on this roster. I'm not convinced that Fizdale is a coach that can get 30 plus wins out of them. I really hope I'm wrong but, as of now, he strikes me as an Isiah Thomas rerun.
