Knicks · Frank missed practice with sore groin the knicks say not serious like last season per ian begley (page 1)

houston20 @ 10/14/2019 2:49 PM

The Knicks don’t see Ntilikina’s groin injury as a serious one. He missed significant time last year with a groin strain.Ian Begley added,

Frank Ntilikina didn’t practice today due to a sore groin. Damyean Dotson and Dennis Smith Jr. practiced in full. Kevin Knox (calf) and Allonzo Treir (neck) were limited.

knicks1248 @ 10/14/2019 4:15 PM
I Would be shocked if the Knicks extend him.
Vmart @ 10/14/2019 5:06 PM
knicks1248 wrote:I Would be shocked if the Knicks extend him.

If they are smart they will extend him.

GustavBahler @ 10/14/2019 5:20 PM
Didnt watch the end of the last game. But the first one, Frank was aggressive, but he looked gassed by the end of the game. Wasnt given too much PT in the FIBA tourney. Believe Frank's biggest obstacle at this point, is conditioning.

Before any deals for Frank are explored. Would like to see mgmt do a thorough review of Frank's off-season training regimen. Frank has had this issue, going back to his rookie year, I believe. Maybe a change in the way Frank trains might help.

Nalod @ 10/14/2019 9:00 PM
knicks1248 wrote:I Would be shocked if the Knicks extend him.

I’d be shocked If you did not exhibit a Pavlovian response.

Allanfan20 @ 10/15/2019 4:31 AM
knicks1248 wrote:I Would be shocked if the Knicks extend him.

It would be stupid not to.

Nalod @ 10/15/2019 9:03 AM
I get it if we don’t see his future. We are not coaches/scouts.
Given the rumors of a trade I can see it. We all can.
Have not seen DSjr clear path either.
We have seen the path with Knox/mitch/and even RJ.
Dennis has to play 70 games at age 21-22 in a season. Reality in his x-rays. Does that show an NBA future or chronic issues?
Nalod @ 10/15/2019 9:10 AM
Pragmatically speaking.......

Does Dotson have a future here beyond this season? I like this kid but he is aging out of our timeline or we have to pay him beyond this season. Doe we keep him vs. Frank? Does Barretts presence simply negate Dots role?
Payton? about the same age but with 5 seasons in. He is who he is. Does giving him a long term deal “settle him down” into a better role?
Is it reasonable to keep both Frank and Dennis at that money and stage of career?
Are their other players similar to Frank, like Thon Maker who we feel has upside but at a different position?
Our Frontcourt is getting a path to the future.

Panos @ 10/15/2019 9:21 AM
Vmart wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I Would be shocked if the Knicks extend him.

If they are smart they will extend him.

Excuse me, what? Since when do "smart" and "Knicks" refer to the same team?

knicks1248 @ 10/15/2019 9:36 AM
Allanfan20 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I Would be shocked if the Knicks extend him.

It would be stupid not to.

If you have been paying close attn to this FO, you have to know that there is a strong possibility they won't. Here's why i think they won't...Outside of the fact , why are you waiting until the absolute last minute to do it?

cons..

He's more attractive in a trade chip with an expiring contract

He's not a perry pick

He certainly hasn't shown enough to get extended

They have his Bird rights.

they prefer to have the cap space.

He's hurt again..

He still can't shoot.

pro's

He's a good defender

He's young

arkrud @ 10/15/2019 10:24 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I Would be shocked if the Knicks extend him.

It would be stupid not to.

If you have been paying close attn to this FO, you have to know that there is a strong possibility they won't. Here's why i think they won't...Outside of the fact , why are you waiting until the absolute last minute to do it?

cons..

He's more attractive in a trade chip with an expiring contract

He's not a perry pick

He certainly hasn't shown enough to get extended

They have his Bird rights.

they prefer to have the cap space.

He's hurt again..

He still can't shoot.

pro's

He's a good defender

He's young

How "They have his Bird rights." is in "cons" for trading him?
Having Bird rights for player is huge - its a complete control by the team.

As trading him it all depends on what we are getting in return.
If we are getting better value then why not.
He is an asset and FO cannot be emotional about assets.
NBA is all business and players are equipment.

knicks1248 @ 10/15/2019 10:39 AM
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I Would be shocked if the Knicks extend him.

It would be stupid not to.

If you have been paying close attn to this FO, you have to know that there is a strong possibility they won't. Here's why i think they won't...Outside of the fact , why are you waiting until the absolute last minute to do it?

cons..

He's more attractive in a trade chip with an expiring contract

He's not a perry pick

He certainly hasn't shown enough to get extended

They have his Bird rights.

they prefer to have the cap space.

He's hurt again..

He still can't shoot.

pro's

He's a good defender

He's young

How "They have his Bird rights." is in "cons" for trading him?
Having Bird rights for player is huge - its a complete control by the team.

As trading him it all depends on what we are getting in return.
If we are getting better value then why not.
He is an asset and FO cannot be emotional about assets.
NBA is all business and players are equipment.

Well it's a con in saying they don't have to rush to extended for 6 or 7 mill, and they can wait until the end of the season and let the market dictate what he's worth if some other team wants him.

They didn't extend KP (although I felt that was mutual)for cap purposes.

I don't think they will extend DSJ either, this F/O seems like they are all about flexibility and not commiting to anyone..

I think their strategy is to be able to pounced on the next super star that request a trade, and having enough trade chips to do so..at the same time Keeping their hopes up for AD

houston20 @ 10/15/2019 12:08 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I Would be shocked if the Knicks extend him.

It would be stupid not to.

If you have been paying close attn to this FO, you have to know that there is a strong possibility they won't. Here's why i think they won't...Outside of the fact , why are you waiting until the absolute last minute to do it?

cons..

He's more attractive in a trade chip with an expiring contract

He's not a perry pick

He certainly hasn't shown enough to get extended

They have his Bird rights.

they prefer to have the cap space.

He's hurt again..

He still can't shoot.

pro's

He's a good defender

He's young

How "They have his Bird rights." is in "cons" for trading him?
Having Bird rights for player is huge - its a complete control by the team.

As trading him it all depends on what we are getting in return.
If we are getting better value then why not.
He is an asset and FO cannot be emotional about assets.
NBA is all business and players are equipment.

Well it's a con in saying they don't have to rush to extended for 6 or 7 mill, and they can wait until the end of the season and let the market dictate what he's worth if some other team wants him.

They didn't extend KP (although I felt that was mutual)for cap purposes.

I don't think they will extend DSJ either, this F/O seems like they are all about flexibility and not commiting to anyone..

I think their strategy is to be able to pounced on the next super star that request a trade, and having enough trade chips to do so..at the same time Keeping their hopes up for AD

I think the knicks front office has more confidence in dsj then frank and his contract will get extended it only 5 million dollars. I don't think perry will extend frank contract its because he not perry pick and frank just hasn't produce. Plus with the china situation with the nba the knicks save 5 million dollars if they don't extend frank in the summer of 2020.

martin @ 10/15/2019 12:39 PM
I am still a bit baffled by the logic presented as to why the Knicks WOULDN'T extend Frank.

A few assumptions: $6M for the 2020-21 season is below the NBA average.

If they like him, they will extend him; his salary is capped and he is given another year. No brainer.

If they want to trade Frank, it means the other team wants him and likes him as a prospect. Would they only want him on a one year deal for this season (2019-20) and then to have his RFA rights? Or would they want him next year too capped at $6M and then have his RFA rights?

houston20 @ 10/15/2019 12:57 PM
martin wrote:I am still a bit baffled by the logic presented as to why the Knicks WOULDN'T extend Frank.

A few assumptions: $6M for the 2020-21 season is below the NBA average.

If they like him, they will extend him; his salary is capped and he is given another year. No brainer.

If they want to trade Frank, it means the other team wants him and likes him as a prospect. Would they only want him on a one year deal for this season (2019-20) and then to have his RFA rights? Or would they want him next year too capped at $6M and then have his RFA rights?


It has lot do to do with the nba business with china right now if teams want to extend players and if some players are on there last chance with the team it doesn't go well for that player to extend his contract. Per ian begley cap situation with the nba business with china
Here's how a potential decrease in the salary cap from NBA-China controversy could impact Knicks
Lost revenue -- if it's high enough -- will have a tangible impact on the team
By Ian Begley | 11:19AM
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New York Knicks president Steve Mills and general manager Scott Perry speak to the media on media day at MSG Training Center. (Brad Penner/USA Today Sports Images)
New York Knicks president Steve Mills and general manager Scott Perry speak to the media on media day at MSG Training Center. (Brad Penner/USA Today Sports Images)
Ian Begley, SNY.tv | Twitter |

If you've seen LeBron James' comments on the NBA-China controversy (and the reaction to those comments), you know that the ripple effects of Daryl Morey's tweet in support of demonstrators in Hong Kong will be felt for some time.

There's plenty to unpack with this story: free speech issues, the NBA -- and many other companies -- conducting business with a country that critics say has a history of oppressing dissent, and the potential financial fallout for the league and its players from losing revenue from the business they do in China.

It's way too early to predict how much revenue the league may lose in the aftermath of last week's events. But the lost revenue -- if it's high enough -- will have a tangible impact on the Knicks.


If the NBA loses a significant amount of its China revenue this season, it could change the salary cap for this summer, which would effect how teams spend money and how much 2020 free agents can earn on the open market.

Here's a look at how a potential decrease in the cap could impact the Knicks:
How much will the cap decrease? Again, it's too premature to even guess at this number -- or to assume that the cap will decrease. Yahoo Sports reported that several teams are planning for scenarios where the cap for 2020-21 -- currently set at $116 million -- decreases by 10-15 percent. Several teams reached by SNY called that a worst-case scenario and didn't think that the cap would decrease that significantly, which was pointed out in the Yahoo story.

It's unclear how much of the NBA's revenue is generated in China. One person with business ties to China and the league said a conservative estimate would be roughly $600 million annually.

That's obviously a significant percentage of the league's revenue (estimated at around $8 billion during the last collective bargaining agreement). But it would be surprising if all of that went away in the wake of the NBA/Morey/China issue. (Whether the league or its players should be doing business in China in the first place is a separate question altogether.)

A significant portion of the NBA's China revenue is presumably based on contracts that are already agreed to, so the Chinese companies would have to break those agreements to take the revenue away.

Losing half of the revenue from China: For the purposes of this exercise, let's assume that the NBA loses roughly half of revenue from the fallout of the geopolitical storm with China. (Again: that's a huge -- and unlikely -- number). For the purposes of this exercise, let's assume that the revenue from China is $600 million. According to projections from cap expert Albert Nahmad, a $300M drop in revenue would decrease the 2020-21 salary cap by about $4.7 million. This would put the cap for 2020-21 at roughly $111.5 million, and would also decrease the cap for 2021-22 (barring a subsequent, significant, increase in revenue).

A drop like this affects all teams and players in many ways, including a decrease in the annual value of max contracts for free agents and the value of the exceptions teams can use to sign free agents.

What about the players on the Knicks? Barring any unforeseen moves that would add significant salary, the Knicks aren't in danger of being a luxury tax team next season. That's true even if there is a sizeable decrease in the cap due to the China issue.

New York can, hypothetically, create roughly $67 million in cap room next summer, but they'd have to renounce all of their existing free agents. The Knicks have cap holds for Marcus Morris ($18M), Allonzo Trier ($4M; RFA), and/or Damyean Dotson ($2M; RFA) and team options for Bobby Portis ($16M), Frank Ntilikina ($6M), Dennis Smith ($6M) and Kevin Knox ($5M). New York also has partially guaranteed contracts for Taj Gibson, Elfrid Payton, Wayne Ellington and Reggie Bullock and the nonguaranteed contract of Mitchell Robinson.

For argument's sake, let's say the Knicks pick up the 2020-21 options for Smith Jr., Knox, retain the cap holds for Dotson and Trier and keep Robinson's non-guaranteed deal. If you factor in $5 million for a 2020 first-round pick, that would put them at $58 million in team salary for 2020-21.

If the current cap projection for 2020-21 dropped by $4.7 million, that would leave New York with roughly $47 million in cap space for the summer of 2020. So a cap decrease would cost the Knicks some flexibility next summer.

Could Knicks help tax teams? Of course, the list of free agents available for 2020 is underwhelming (assuming Anthony Davis remains with the Lakers). If New York decided against spending big money on a free agent in 2020, it could still use its cap space in other ways.

A reduced cap could leave more teams in the luxury tax. Owners for these teams may not want to pay the luxury tax. So the GMs for those owners would be looking to shed salary via trade.

Because the Knicks have cap space, they could take on some unwanted salary from a team while also extracting valuable assets (a talented young player or draft pick). You could argue that the trade route would be a more valuable use of their cap space than signing a 2020 unrestricted free agent to big money.

What about Ntilikina? One potentially tricky aspect of all of this for New York is Ntilikina. If the Knicks know there is a decrease in the cap for 2020-21, does that change how they approach Ntilikina's contract option for next season? New York has until Oct. 31 to decide whether or not to exercise the option. If they don't pick it up and renounce their rights to Ntilikina, it would create approximately $5 million in cap space for the summer of 2020.

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/heres-how-a-potential-decrease-in-the-salary-cap-from-nba-china-controversy-could-impact-knicks/311167152

knicks1248 @ 10/15/2019 1:40 PM
Also by not extending him, I can see the whole willy Hernangomez scenario playing out the same way..

If guys like(dsj, payton, trier, allan, Rj, ellington) out play play him for minutes, then he's regulated to the bench, thats not good for a player entering FA, and i can see his Agent(who's way more aggressive than his previous one) asking for a trade

Vmart @ 10/15/2019 1:55 PM
Panos wrote:
Vmart wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I Would be shocked if the Knicks extend him.

If they are smart they will extend him.

Excuse me, what? Since when do "smart" and "Knicks" refer to the same team?

That is why I said “if they are smart” I’m not saying they are or aren’t. Nothing shocks me with the Knicks I know this a dumb organization they do stupid things.

Kemet @ 10/15/2019 2:29 PM
knicks1248 wrote:I Would be shocked if the Knicks extend him.

After Beal & Quick-Smith backcourt got Frank to pick up 3 quick fouls in the 1st quarter, and Frank did not get any playing-time in the 2nd quarter .. the same 2nd qtr. the Wizards out scored the Knicks 41-17 …. the Knicks front office would be foolish not to extend Frank ASAP.

knicks1248 @ 10/15/2019 3:13 PM
Kemet wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I Would be shocked if the Knicks extend him.

After Beal & Quick-Smith backcourt got Frank to pick up 3 quick fouls in the 1st quarter, and Frank did not get any playing-time in the 2nd quarter .. the same 2nd qtr. the Wizards out scored the Knicks 41-17 …. the Knicks front office would be foolish not to extend Frank ASAP.

that's part of his problem, a couple of those fouls was him trying to guard the much quicker ish smith, he could not keep that guy in front of him.

Vmart @ 10/15/2019 3:40 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Kemet wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:I Would be shocked if the Knicks extend him.

After Beal & Quick-Smith backcourt got Frank to pick up 3 quick fouls in the 1st quarter, and Frank did not get any playing-time in the 2nd quarter .. the same 2nd qtr. the Wizards out scored the Knicks 41-17 …. the Knicks front office would be foolish not to extend Frank ASAP.

that's part of his problem, a couple of those fouls was him trying to guard the much quicker ish smith, he could not keep that guy in front of him.

Couple of those fouls were BS calls on Frank. The last one was terrible. Hell everyone was picking up fouls in that game. I hate to say but the refs need to get their work in too. Also pressing basketball is tricky. This is business of basketball and selling ticket is huge. Another Wizards loss doesn’t help their attendance issues. Put it this way an 0-2 start doesn’t help to sell tickets.

EwingsGlass @ 10/15/2019 3:40 PM
Probably makes sense to extend him. I think he will outperform the balance of his rookie scale contract. He definitely has things he needs to work on, but I don't see any major negatives that would make him a liability. If he develops, I see he upside as a Patrick Beverly type player. I think he can really carve out a niche with his defense.
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