Knicks · OT: Zion out 6-8 weeks after torn meniscus surgery (page 2)

anrst wrote:

smackeddog wrote:So Kyrie breaks his face, KD tears his achilles and Zion rips his meniscus. That was going to be our 3 offseason additions. The Knicks curse is starting to affect even players that don't end up with us!

EXACTLY

And you won’t hear anyone in media who trashed us all off season mention this at all

This is how bad it is for knickfans. After a 17 win season we have a skewed view.
"how much worse can it get"? If the historical pattern of "Worst team gets top pick" we'd be looking in the mirror at Zions knee and shaking our heads. Durant was b'lining to knicks until he got broken? We don't know the real story there do we? Kyrie breaking his face is just a minor setback.

Media won't go there because its a bad place to go. Knicks "win" but really its mostly statistical thing. KP fell to us, then he got broken. With his character and injury it became a "regrettable" circumstance that set us back. When your franchise on a long run of bad and seemingly did the right thing, but then KP happened its more sad than anything.

Back to Zion.........We all saw this. We all saw this freak of nature man-child and have no comparison other than guys that are amazing running backs in the NFL. Or Lawrence Taylor. Not at 18 years old!!! Lose weight?

This kid look fat to you? The kid can fly. But why did we never see this before? Kids this size don't fly, they destroy on the football field. Bodies peak at different times and change. Zion was way better in his year at duke than what was projected. His preseason it continued. We have seen The Elgin Baylors, Connie Hawkins, David Thompsons, Darrell Griffiths, Jordan, Dr J, Barkley, Ewing, Lebron, etc....High fliers at young ages. The ones that lasted evolved their games to rely LESS on crazy hops. We never saw a kid this size fly. Gravity is unavoidable. The human body cannot take it at that size.
We all talked about the doubts but the Zion train and hype damn near mandates you take the kid. You don't want to pass on that. I suppose we had hoped we get a few years of Zion before he evolved. It might have come and gone. We don't know.

while we at it, I have not heard a peep about Ja Morant. Nothing good or bad. Looked at his stat line. Good assist numbers, shooting % OK for a rook, 3pt not so good. He in Memphis so no media crush.

Knixkik wrote:It's not good that he is having wear and tear injuries this soon in his career.

Agreed, this is not good that this is happening so young.
The meniscus gets trimmed, first in one knee, and then to compensate after it's repaired and rehabbed, it won't be long until the other one goes. Then there's less cushioning obviously, and bone on bone is next.

I cannot believe this kid was not weight-managed better immediately when the sneaker injury occurred at Duke. Stupid. And yes, it's an observation based on the weight he's come into the league at, not on knowing what his rehab actually consisted of.

He really does seem like someone who could easily become the face of a franchise. Hope he repairs and trims down quickly. It would really suck not to see him freaking out the league for years to come.

jrodmc wrote:

Knixkik wrote:It's not good that he is having wear and tear injuries this soon in his career.

Agreed, this is not good that this is happening so young.
The meniscus gets trimmed, first in one knee, and then to compensate after it's repaired and rehabbed, it won't be long until the other one goes. Then there's less cushioning obviously, and bone on bone is next.

I cannot believe this kid was not weight-managed better immediately when the sneaker injury occurred at Duke. Stupid. And yes, it's an observation based on the weight he's come into the league at, not on knowing what his rehab actually consisted of.

He really does seem like someone who could easily become the face of a franchise. Hope he repairs and trims down quickly. It would really suck not to see him freaking out the league for years to come.

The problem is it's not just his weight. There's a video on youtube of a doctor that explains his body mechanics. Search Zion Injury on youtube. Zion literally waddles from side to side when he walks because he has an inward gate with his knees. Playing a sport with his body mechanics and his athletic ability make it almost impossible to avoid injury. He says the next thing is his ACL's if this isn't corrected.

I'm not worrying too much about Zion- Shaq was another physical freak (he was HUGE), but he managed to have a great career. Became quite injury prone after the first few seasons (though I think that was mainly poor conditioning), but always seemed healthy for the playoffs. Managed to avoid any major injuries (I think!)

Nalod wrote:

anrst wrote:

smackeddog wrote:So Kyrie breaks his face, KD tears his achilles and Zion rips his meniscus. That was going to be our 3 offseason additions. The Knicks curse is starting to affect even players that don't end up with us!

EXACTLY

And you won’t hear anyone in media who trashed us all off season mention this at all

This is how bad it is for knickfans. After a 17 win season we have a skewed view.
"how much worse can it get"? If the historical pattern of "Worst team gets top pick" we'd be looking in the mirror at Zions knee and shaking our heads. Durant was b'lining to knicks until he got broken? We don't know the real story there do we? Kyrie breaking his face is just a minor setback.

Media won't go there because its a bad place to go. Knicks "win" but really its mostly statistical thing. KP fell to us, then he got broken. With his character and injury it became a "regrettable" circumstance that set us back. When your franchise on a long run of bad and seemingly did the right thing, but then KP happened its more sad than anything.

Back to Zion.........We all saw this. We all saw this freak of nature man-child and have no comparison other than guys that are amazing running backs in the NFL. Or Lawrence Taylor. Not at 18 years old!!! Lose weight?

This kid look fat to you? The kid can fly. But why did we never see this before? Kids this size don't fly, they destroy on the football field. Bodies peak at different times and change. Zion was way better in his year at duke than what was projected. His preseason it continued. We have seen The Elgin Baylors, Connie Hawkins, David Thompsons, Darrell Griffiths, Jordan, Dr J, Barkley, Ewing, Lebron, etc....High fliers at young ages. The ones that lasted evolved their games to rely LESS on crazy hops. We never saw a kid this size fly. Gravity is unavoidable. The human body cannot take it at that size.
We all talked about the doubts but the Zion train and hype damn near mandates you take the kid. You don't want to pass on that. I suppose we had hoped we get a few years of Zion before he evolved. It might have come and gone. We don't know.

while we at it, I have not heard a peep about Ja Morant. Nothing good or bad. Looked at his stat line. Good assist numbers, shooting % OK for a rook, 3pt not so good. He in Memphis so no media crush.

This.

Don't get the mentality behind fans trying to dog a potential pick/FA just because we did not get him. Kid is a freak and will have a long career in the NBA. Hate to think some would wish anything bad on the kid.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:

anrst wrote:

smackeddog wrote:So Kyrie breaks his face, KD tears his achilles and Zion rips his meniscus. That was going to be our 3 offseason additions. The Knicks curse is starting to affect even players that don't end up with us!

EXACTLY

And you won’t hear anyone in media who trashed us all off season mention this at all

This is how bad it is for knickfans. After a 17 win season we have a skewed view.
"how much worse can it get"? If the historical pattern of "Worst team gets top pick" we'd be looking in the mirror at Zions knee and shaking our heads. Durant was b'lining to knicks until he got broken? We don't know the real story there do we? Kyrie breaking his face is just a minor setback.

Media won't go there because its a bad place to go. Knicks "win" but really its mostly statistical thing. KP fell to us, then he got broken. With his character and injury it became a "regrettable" circumstance that set us back. When your franchise on a long run of bad and seemingly did the right thing, but then KP happened its more sad than anything.

Back to Zion.........We all saw this. We all saw this freak of nature man-child and have no comparison other than guys that are amazing running backs in the NFL. Or Lawrence Taylor. Not at 18 years old!!! Lose weight?

This kid look fat to you? The kid can fly. But why did we never see this before? Kids this size don't fly, they destroy on the football field. Bodies peak at different times and change. Zion was way better in his year at duke than what was projected. His preseason it continued. We have seen The Elgin Baylors, Connie Hawkins, David Thompsons, Darrell Griffiths, Jordan, Dr J, Barkley, Ewing, Lebron, etc....High fliers at young ages. The ones that lasted evolved their games to rely LESS on crazy hops. We never saw a kid this size fly. Gravity is unavoidable. The human body cannot take it at that size.
We all talked about the doubts but the Zion train and hype damn near mandates you take the kid. You don't want to pass on that. I suppose we had hoped we get a few years of Zion before he evolved. It might have come and gone. We don't know.

while we at it, I have not heard a peep about Ja Morant. Nothing good or bad. Looked at his stat line. Good assist numbers, shooting % OK for a rook, 3pt not so good. He in Memphis so no media crush.

This.

Don't get the mentality behind fans trying to dog a potential pick/FA just because we did not get him. Kid is a freak and will have a long career in the NBA. Hate to think some would wish anything bad on the kid.

I do not want to see any NBA player hurt. Not even the ones I dislike. Before the lottery, there were many on here that were wary of Zion's physical presence as an issue. A health concern based on wear and tear.

He is extremely muscular, not "fat". That added muscle is a lot to manage given the intensity of the NBA.

What I am seeing on here is a bit of "see, this is what we predicted would happen". Recall folks suggesting it would be better to get the 2nd pick or 3rd pick so they wouldn't have to possibly pass on Zion where his muscular weight raised injury concerns.

No one hates Zion. Folks worried that this exact scenario would happen. And it did. And so folks are even more grateful to have an uninjured rookie.

he reminds me of LJ in so many ways. He is so explosive but weighs a bunch. That impact has to get distributed somewhere. Hopefully he stays healthy because it's fun to watch him play, that's for sure

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:

anrst wrote:

smackeddog wrote:So Kyrie breaks his face, KD tears his achilles and Zion rips his meniscus. That was going to be our 3 offseason additions. The Knicks curse is starting to affect even players that don't end up with us!

EXACTLY

And you won’t hear anyone in media who trashed us all off season mention this at all

This is how bad it is for knickfans. After a 17 win season we have a skewed view.
"how much worse can it get"? If the historical pattern of "Worst team gets top pick" we'd be looking in the mirror at Zions knee and shaking our heads. Durant was b'lining to knicks until he got broken? We don't know the real story there do we? Kyrie breaking his face is just a minor setback.

Media won't go there because its a bad place to go. Knicks "win" but really its mostly statistical thing. KP fell to us, then he got broken. With his character and injury it became a "regrettable" circumstance that set us back. When your franchise on a long run of bad and seemingly did the right thing, but then KP happened its more sad than anything.

Back to Zion.........We all saw this. We all saw this freak of nature man-child and have no comparison other than guys that are amazing running backs in the NFL. Or Lawrence Taylor. Not at 18 years old!!! Lose weight?

This kid look fat to you? The kid can fly. But why did we never see this before? Kids this size don't fly, they destroy on the football field. Bodies peak at different times and change. Zion was way better in his year at duke than what was projected. His preseason it continued. We have seen The Elgin Baylors, Connie Hawkins, David Thompsons, Darrell Griffiths, Jordan, Dr J, Barkley, Ewing, Lebron, etc....High fliers at young ages. The ones that lasted evolved their games to rely LESS on crazy hops. We never saw a kid this size fly. Gravity is unavoidable. The human body cannot take it at that size.
We all talked about the doubts but the Zion train and hype damn near mandates you take the kid. You don't want to pass on that. I suppose we had hoped we get a few years of Zion before he evolved. It might have come and gone. We don't know.

while we at it, I have not heard a peep about Ja Morant. Nothing good or bad. Looked at his stat line. Good assist numbers, shooting % OK for a rook, 3pt not so good. He in Memphis so no media crush.

This.

Don't get the mentality behind fans trying to dog a potential pick/FA just because we did not get him. Kid is a freak and will have a long career in the NBA. Hate to think some would wish anything bad on the kid.

knee issues in high school, college, summer league, preseason....This dude has got to lose weight for his own good..too much weight for those knees

Where does he lose the weight? I keep reading "weight management"? If you reduce his muscle mass, do you not reduce his explosive power?

Knixkik wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Knixkik wrote:It's not good that he is having wear and tear injuries this soon in his career.

Agreed, this is not good that this is happening so young.
The meniscus gets trimmed, first in one knee, and then to compensate after it's repaired and rehabbed, it won't be long until the other one goes. Then there's less cushioning obviously, and bone on bone is next.

I cannot believe this kid was not weight-managed better immediately when the sneaker injury occurred at Duke. Stupid. And yes, it's an observation based on the weight he's come into the league at, not on knowing what his rehab actually consisted of.

He really does seem like someone who could easily become the face of a franchise. Hope he repairs and trims down quickly. It would really suck not to see him freaking out the league for years to come.

The problem is it's not just his weight. There's a video on youtube of a doctor that explains his body mechanics. Search Zion Injury on youtube. Zion literally waddles from side to side when he walks because he has an inward gate with his knees. Playing a sport with his body mechanics and his athletic ability make it almost impossible to avoid injury. He says the next thing is his ACL's if this isn't corrected.

Here i sthe youtube video you were talking about. https://youtu.be/HGRnMIRCtDU Looks like this guy was spot on aboout the meniscus.

Nalod wrote:Where does he lose the weight? I keep reading "weight management"? If you reduce his muscle mass, do you not reduce his explosive power?

Dont you also lessen the energy needed to elevate? Zion does a lot of things well, beyond the sick vertical. Doesnt have to just rely on his explosiveness. What NO will probably emphasize.

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:Where does he lose the weight? I keep reading "weight management"? If you reduce his muscle mass, do you not reduce his explosive power?

Dont you also lessen the energy needed to elevate? Zion does a lot of things well, beyond the sick vertical. Doesnt have to just rely on his explosiveness. What NO will probably emphasize.

Do you have any phisiological evidence that can work? I get the concept, and yes he is quick but won't it also expose his fundamental weaknesses? Kid is 19, not fundamentally sound in many ways. His shot is not great. Kid can play. IM not slighting him. But your talking abut evolving his very quickly. He could not sustain it thru preseason. Now we asking him to shrink?

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:

anrst wrote:

smackeddog wrote:So Kyrie breaks his face, KD tears his achilles and Zion rips his meniscus. That was going to be our 3 offseason additions. The Knicks curse is starting to affect even players that don't end up with us!

EXACTLY

And you won’t hear anyone in media who trashed us all off season mention this at all

This is how bad it is for knickfans. After a 17 win season we have a skewed view.
"how much worse can it get"? If the historical pattern of "Worst team gets top pick" we'd be looking in the mirror at Zions knee and shaking our heads. Durant was b'lining to knicks until he got broken? We don't know the real story there do we? Kyrie breaking his face is just a minor setback.

Media won't go there because its a bad place to go. Knicks "win" but really its mostly statistical thing. KP fell to us, then he got broken. With his character and injury it became a "regrettable" circumstance that set us back. When your franchise on a long run of bad and seemingly did the right thing, but then KP happened its more sad than anything.

Back to Zion.........We all saw this. We all saw this freak of nature man-child and have no comparison other than guys that are amazing running backs in the NFL. Or Lawrence Taylor. Not at 18 years old!!! Lose weight?

This kid look fat to you? The kid can fly. But why did we never see this before? Kids this size don't fly, they destroy on the football field. Bodies peak at different times and change. Zion was way better in his year at duke than what was projected. His preseason it continued. We have seen The Elgin Baylors, Connie Hawkins, David Thompsons, Darrell Griffiths, Jordan, Dr J, Barkley, Ewing, Lebron, etc....High fliers at young ages. The ones that lasted evolved their games to rely LESS on crazy hops. We never saw a kid this size fly. Gravity is unavoidable. The human body cannot take it at that size.
We all talked about the doubts but the Zion train and hype damn near mandates you take the kid. You don't want to pass on that. I suppose we had hoped we get a few years of Zion before he evolved. It might have come and gone. We don't know.

while we at it, I have not heard a peep about Ja Morant. Nothing good or bad. Looked at his stat line. Good assist numbers, shooting % OK for a rook, 3pt not so good. He in Memphis so no media crush.

This.

Don't get the mentality behind fans trying to dog a potential pick/FA just because we did not get him. Kid is a freak and will have a long career in the NBA. Hate to think some would wish anything bad on the kid.

That has absolutely nothing to do with it. Ive seen nothing but positive thoughts on Zion on here. He is a real good kid and NOBODY has wished injury on him. However it has been a legit concern for him for awhile especially the way he is built. Even if we did win the lottery it was something that I was concerned about anyway. Not saying he is gonna have an injury plagued career but im not surprised it has been an issue already

Well, we may have dodged a bullet by not getting the #1 overall pick. It's very possible that we got the best player in this draft, though I (and many others) also contended that Barrett might be the best of the bunch. (his fellow draft class folks didn't think so, though!)

I didn't realize Zion had such a weeble woobly walk. You usually see clips of him running low and exploding for dunks that you'd think he had good body mechanics.

People harp on his weight because he seems to be a fat guy waiting to happen (like Shaq). He looks at food and puts on weight. As a freshman in high school, he was 6'3", 175 lbs. Basically Ja Morant's listed height & weight.

Then between then and now, he grew 3 more inches and gained 100+lbs. (he's listed at 284) What the heck! Common sense says that's a whole lot of filling out in a short period of time. And he's still 19. Can't even drink alcohol yet.

A little less weight training might be a good idea to save him from wear and tear.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:

anrst wrote:

smackeddog wrote:So Kyrie breaks his face, KD tears his achilles and Zion rips his meniscus. That was going to be our 3 offseason additions. The Knicks curse is starting to affect even players that don't end up with us!

EXACTLY

And you won’t hear anyone in media who trashed us all off season mention this at all

This is how bad it is for knickfans. After a 17 win season we have a skewed view.
"how much worse can it get"? If the historical pattern of "Worst team gets top pick" we'd be looking in the mirror at Zions knee and shaking our heads. Durant was b'lining to knicks until he got broken? We don't know the real story there do we? Kyrie breaking his face is just a minor setback.

Media won't go there because its a bad place to go. Knicks "win" but really its mostly statistical thing. KP fell to us, then he got broken. With his character and injury it became a "regrettable" circumstance that set us back. When your franchise on a long run of bad and seemingly did the right thing, but then KP happened its more sad than anything.

Back to Zion.........We all saw this. We all saw this freak of nature man-child and have no comparison other than guys that are amazing running backs in the NFL. Or Lawrence Taylor. Not at 18 years old!!! Lose weight?

This kid look fat to you? The kid can fly. But why did we never see this before? Kids this size don't fly, they destroy on the football field. Bodies peak at different times and change. Zion was way better in his year at duke than what was projected. His preseason it continued. We have seen The Elgin Baylors, Connie Hawkins, David Thompsons, Darrell Griffiths, Jordan, Dr J, Barkley, Ewing, Lebron, etc....High fliers at young ages. The ones that lasted evolved their games to rely LESS on crazy hops. We never saw a kid this size fly. Gravity is unavoidable. The human body cannot take it at that size.
We all talked about the doubts but the Zion train and hype damn near mandates you take the kid. You don't want to pass on that. I suppose we had hoped we get a few years of Zion before he evolved. It might have come and gone. We don't know.

while we at it, I have not heard a peep about Ja Morant. Nothing good or bad. Looked at his stat line. Good assist numbers, shooting % OK for a rook, 3pt not so good. He in Memphis so no media crush.

This.

Don't get the mentality behind fans trying to dog a potential pick/FA just because we did not get him. Kid is a freak and will have a long career in the NBA. Hate to think some would wish anything bad on the kid.

That has absolutely nothing to do with it. Ive seen nothing but positive thoughts on Zion on here. He is a real good kid and NOBODY has wished injury on him. However it has been a legit concern for him for awhile especially the way he is built. Even if we did win the lottery it was something that I was concerned about anyway. Not saying he is gonna have an injury plagued career but im not surprised it has been an issue already

Seems like he can legitimately lose weight and become more cut over time. Not really sure what Julius Randle weighs exactly, but that body type is probably his goal. Either way, it seems after seeing some of the videos and reading the articles that his primary contributing factor to his injury risks are more around his awkward body mechanics (walk and inward gate), and his size just adds fuel to the fire. But hopefully he can avoid the major stuff and only ends up with the minor injuries most of these guys get from time to time. The injury he just got isn't a big deal in a vacuum.

I didn’t realize he got hurt at the McDonalds game. Was it a knee issue?

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:Where does he lose the weight? I keep reading "weight management"? If you reduce his muscle mass, do you not reduce his explosive power?

Dont you also lessen the energy needed to elevate? Zion does a lot of things well, beyond the sick vertical. Doesnt have to just rely on his explosiveness. What NO will probably emphasize.

Do you have any phisiological evidence that can work? I get the concept, and yes he is quick but won't it also expose his fundamental weaknesses? Kid is 19, not fundamentally sound in many ways. His shot is not great. Kid can play. IM not slighting him. But your talking abut evolving his very quickly. He could not sustain it thru preseason. Now we asking him to shrink?

If I did, I wouldnt have added the question mark . Believe its about how much weight and stress Zion's knees can handle. Disagree that he is as raw as you are saying. Read some of the interviews by competing college coaches on his bball IQ. Moves well, without the ball, great anticipation, great passer. Doesnt have to rely only on his explosiveness. Dont believe losing some weight will bring him down to earth, so to speak. Do believe it will help with keeping Zion on the court.

Zion is built like a linebaker and probably would have more career longevity as one. to be 6'5.5" and 285, its hard to see longevity. I think he needs to lose 30-40 pounds. He doesn't need all of that muscle mass to play at a high level. I am scared he wont make it long term at that size. I also didn't want the Knicks to get him. His hype doesnt really match the skillset, although he is really generational as an athelete, he isn't generational as a Basketball talent. I do wish him the best tho, he seems like a great kid.

Killa4luv wrote:Zion is built like a linebaker and probably would have more career longevity as one. to be 6'5.5" and 285, its hard to see longevity. I think he needs to lose 30-40 pounds. He doesn't need all of that muscle mass to play at a high level. I am scared he wont make it long term at that size. I also didn't want the Knicks to get him. His hype doesnt really match the skillset, although he is really generational as an athelete, he isn't generational as a Basketball talent. I do wish him the best tho, he seems like a great kid.

I always felt like Shaq would've had an even more dominant career if he could've stayed closer to his size when he entered the league in his Orlando years when he was leaner versus bulking up like he did by the time he got to the Lakers.

Welpee wrote:

Killa4luv wrote:Zion is built like a linebaker and probably would have more career longevity as one. to be 6'5.5" and 285, its hard to see longevity. I think he needs to lose 30-40 pounds. He doesn't need all of that muscle mass to play at a high level. I am scared he wont make it long term at that size. I also didn't want the Knicks to get him. His hype doesnt really match the skillset, although he is really generational as an athelete, he isn't generational as a Basketball talent. I do wish him the best tho, he seems like a great kid.

I always felt like Shaq would've had an even more dominant career if he could've stayed closer to his size when he entered the league in his Orlando years when he was leaner versus bulking up like he did by the time he got to the Lakers.

He kinda had to. Playing pivot in the NBA back then was like a MMA match. Think about it, none of the good centers played the same after their prime years. Ewing, Olajuwan, Robinson...they all fell off a cliff in their early 30s. Unfortunately, they played before they league got less physical. I guess you could make a case that Shaq could've played longer if he got in shape or took those magic "supplements" that guys like Nash and LeBron took advantage of.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Killa4luv wrote:Zion is built like a linebaker and probably would have more career longevity as one. to be 6'5.5" and 285, its hard to see longevity. I think he needs to lose 30-40 pounds. He doesn't need all of that muscle mass to play at a high level. I am scared he wont make it long term at that size. I also didn't want the Knicks to get him. His hype doesnt really match the skillset, although he is really generational as an athelete, he isn't generational as a Basketball talent. I do wish him the best tho, he seems like a great kid.

I always felt like Shaq would've had an even more dominant career if he could've stayed closer to his size when he entered the league in his Orlando years when he was leaner versus bulking up like he did by the time he got to the Lakers.

He kinda had to. Playing pivot in the NBA back then was like a MMA match. Think about it, none of the good centers played the same after their prime years. Ewing, Olajuwan, Robinson...they all fell off a cliff in their early 30s. Unfortunately, they played before they league got less physical. I guess you could make a case that Shaq could've played longer if he got in shape or took those magic "supplements" that guys like Nash and LeBron took advantage of.

Lbj for sure is on T and Hgh. I could highlight all the tells but just google.

Pretty rampant in Miami. Latest example notice how Whiteside resurrected his career and got jacked

Bigger but leaner waist. Side delts. Bigger jaw (looking at u d wade)

ReLize this made all stars super stars but they need to love w their decisions
Forever