Knicks · Play the kids (page 1)

It is unfortunate that Fiz is on the hot seat because it need not have been so. If he had simply done what he was brought here to do in the first place, he would not find himself in this predicament he is now in.

Remember when Pills came on board. In the press conference, they announced they would institute a rebuild. With that in mind they said they would: 1) hold on to the draft picks. 2) acquire young players through the draft. and 3) Do a complete development of the young players.

I remember watching the press conference when Pills made that announcement of rebuilding through the draft and there was a collective roar of approval from the fans. In other words, the fans had accepted the fact that the Knicks were going to lose and lose a lot through the coming years. However they were fine with it as long as the Knicks played the kids and developed them. The fans were willing to give Fiz the requisite time to develop the kids even if they had to go through some losing

But Fiz has not lived up to that pact. This year for example he has twisted himself into a pretzel trying to fit the recently acquired free agents into a cohesive line up when it is clear they just do not get well. The fans have turned on him not because the team is losing but because they are losing while pushing the free agents down their throats. I firmly believe if the Knicks were losing just as they are now but the kids were getting the bulk of the minutes the fans would have continued supporting Fiz.

It may very well be that Fiz has completely lost the fans and nothing he does at this point will win back their trust. But if I were him I would start the kids and put their development as his priority as the fans expected all along. IMHO this is his only way to win back the fans. Like I said it may well be too late but it is only chance he has to save his job.

awe1028 wrote:It is unfortunate that Fiz is on the hot seat because it need not have been so. If he had simply done what he was brought here to do in the first place, he would not find himself in this predicament he is now in.

Remember when Pills came on board. In the press conference, they announced they would institute a rebuild. With that in mind they said they would: 1) hold on to the draft picks. 2) acquire young players through the draft. and 3) Do a complete development of the young players.

I remember watching the press conference when Pills made that announcement of rebuilding through the draft and there was a collective roar of approval from the fans. In other words, the fans had accepted the fact that the Knicks were going to lose and lose a lot through the coming years. However they were fine with it as long as the Knicks played the kids and developed them. The fans were willing to give Fiz the requisite time to develop the kids even if they had to go through some losing

But Fiz has not lived up to that pact. This year for example he has twisted himself into a pretzel trying to fit the recently acquired free agents into a cohesive line up when it is clear they just do not get well. The fans have turned on him not because the team is losing but because they are losing while pushing the free agents down their throats. I firmly believe if the Knicks were losing just as they are now but the kids were getting the bulk of the minutes the fans would have continued supporting Fiz.

It may very well be that Fiz has completely lost the fans and nothing he does at this point will win back their trust. But if I were him I would start the kids and put their development as his priority as the fans expected all along. IMHO this is his only way to win back the fans. Like I said it may well be too late but it is only chance he has to save his job.

Outside of morris, ellington, and gibson the rest of team is under 30 years of age so technically he is playing the kids dsj,frank,knox,barret,dotson,trier,mitch robinson.

The issue with Fiz is that he doesn't have a system. Positionless basketball isn't working. We have too many veteran guys either doing ISO or settling for three point shots that ruins possessions. As a head coach you need to recognize that and clean that up. Even reprimand them in some situations and they will stop doing that. That doesn't mean they cant be aggressive but they have to keep the ball moving

There are some other objectives too.
Bringing up the value of the assets we get.
Young players need to prove to be better that veterans we have.
And whoever did is getting his minutes.
Veterans also need to be evaluated to see if someone should be retained.
All this is not helping the winning of course and this is not the objective anyways.
Rather all the way around. So can see no issues with Fiz.

houston20 wrote:

awe1028 wrote:It is unfortunate that Fiz is on the hot seat because it need not have been so. If he had simply done what he was brought here to do in the first place, he would not find himself in this predicament he is now in.

Remember when Pills came on board. In the press conference, they announced they would institute a rebuild. With that in mind they said they would: 1) hold on to the draft picks. 2) acquire young players through the draft. and 3) Do a complete development of the young players.

I remember watching the press conference when Pills made that announcement of rebuilding through the draft and there was a collective roar of approval from the fans. In other words, the fans had accepted the fact that the Knicks were going to lose and lose a lot through the coming years. However they were fine with it as long as the Knicks played the kids and developed them. The fans were willing to give Fiz the requisite time to develop the kids even if they had to go through some losing

But Fiz has not lived up to that pact. This year for example he has twisted himself into a pretzel trying to fit the recently acquired free agents into a cohesive line up when it is clear they just do not get well. The fans have turned on him not because the team is losing but because they are losing while pushing the free agents down their throats. I firmly believe if the Knicks were losing just as they are now but the kids were getting the bulk of the minutes the fans would have continued supporting Fiz.

It may very well be that Fiz has completely lost the fans and nothing he does at this point will win back their trust. But if I were him I would start the kids and put their development as his priority as the fans expected all along. IMHO this is his only way to win back the fans. Like I said it may well be too late but it is only chance he has to save his job.

Outside of morris, ellington, and gibson the rest of team is under 30 years of age so technically he is playing the kids dsj,frank,knox,barret,dotson,trier,mitch robinson.

I don't know about that. Fiz has had Trier and Dotson glued to the bench. There was no reason for this.

Fiz has elected to play Ellington who has been absolutely awful instead of giving Dotson a chance. Fiz stated recently he needed spacing on the court nothing wrong with that. But instead of giving Dotson some burn, a young player who could certainly have helped with spacing he elects to sit Mitch another young player in order to play Portis.

Trier could not get playing time for no apparent reason. It was so perplexing as to why Trier was not playing that fans started speculating that Trier must have done something wrong to try and explain it.

Frank essentially had DNPs for the first three games (Zero minutes in game 1, 18 seconds in the second game and 3 minutes in game 3). Fiz went so far as to play RJ at the point instead of giving Frank a chance. It was only after the fans turned on him by calling for Frank that he finally gave Frank a chance. Remember how he hooked Frank from game 3 after Frank had those 2 turnovers in those 3 minutes. Yet he sticks with Randle who is turning the ball over at a ridiculous rate

The only young player he has given time is RJ. I can only speculate that RJ has gotten time because he is pretty advanced for a young player and does not need as much development time.

Fiz was brought in specifically to develop the young players and he has refused to do so. If he wants to keep his job he had better start with the development process.

We are losing with the vets anyways why not the play the young kids.
The best starting line up would be:
Dotson sg
Knox pf
Robinson c
RJ sg
Frank g

Trier back up to RJ
Smith backup pg
Morris backup sf
Randle backup pf
Gibson backup C
Portis and Iggy toss up

Not selecting a PG to start the season was a HUGE brainfart and has sank the team. He said "Nobody stood out and won the job". OK then use seniority or longest tenure or even alphabetical order. Don't elect to DISS all three of them and have Trier and Barrett starting. And since then we've barely seen Trier. So how could HE have earned it to start game 1 if you doghouse him immediately after that?

Fiz is a moron. Stop trying to look for deeper meaning.

Sambakick wrote:Not selecting a PG to start the season was a HUGE brainfart and has sank the team. He said "Nobody stood out and won the job". OK then use seniority or longest tenure or even alphabetical order. Don't elect to DISS all three of them and have Trier and Barrett starting. And since then we've barely seen Trier. So how could HE have earned it to start game 1 if you doghouse him immediately after that?

Fiz is a moron. Stop trying to look for deeper meaning.

Couldn’t agree with you more.

Vmart wrote:

Sambakick wrote:Not selecting a PG to start the season was a HUGE brainfart and has sank the team. He said "Nobody stood out and won the job". OK then use seniority or longest tenure or even alphabetical order. Don't elect to DISS all three of them and have Trier and Barrett starting. And since then we've barely seen Trier. So how could HE have earned it to start game 1 if you doghouse him immediately after that?

Fiz is a moron. Stop trying to look for deeper meaning.

Couldn’t agree with you more.

The current shit show is definitely Fizdale's fault. He has enough in the roster to have a better record. He just doesn't have the balls to play the right people.

Vmart wrote:We are losing with the vets anyways why not the play the young kids.
The best starting line up would be:
Dotson sg
Knox pf
Robinson c
RJ sg
Frank g

Trier back up to RJ
Smith backup pg
Morris backup sf
Randle backup pf
Gibson backup C
Portis and Iggy toss up

And keep 74 millions worth of contracts on the bench...waving the white flag in November

Dude I know we're a laughing stock right now, but doing something like that would make this F/O the worst in the history of sports..

Our young guys are not even that good

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:We are losing with the vets anyways why not the play the young kids.
The best starting line up would be:
Dotson sg
Knox pf
Robinson c
RJ sg
Frank g

Trier back up to RJ
Smith backup pg
Morris backup sf
Randle backup pf
Gibson backup C
Portis and Iggy toss up

And keep 74 millions worth of contracts on the bench...waving the white flag in November

Dude I know we're a laughing stock right now, but doing something like that would make this F/O the worst in the history of sports..

Our young guys are not even that good

“our young guys are not good”. Great insight as always from RAINMAN 😂

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:We are losing with the vets anyways why not the play the young kids.
The best starting line up would be:
Dotson sg
Knox pf
Robinson c
RJ sg
Frank g

Trier back up to RJ
Smith backup pg
Morris backup sf
Randle backup pf
Gibson backup C
Portis and Iggy toss up

And keep 74 millions worth of contracts on the bench...waving the white flag in November

Dude I know we're a laughing stock right now, but doing something like that would make this F/O the worst in the history of sports..

Our young guys are not even that good

“our young guys are not good”. Great insight as always from RAINMAN 😂

Yeah... that's what our record indicates

I'm not saying they can't get better, but right now they are not better than anyone playing in front of them..

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:We are losing with the vets anyways why not the play the young kids.
The best starting line up would be:
Dotson sg
Knox pf
Robinson c
RJ sg
Frank g

Trier back up to RJ
Smith backup pg
Morris backup sf
Randle backup pf
Gibson backup C
Portis and Iggy toss up

And keep 74 millions worth of contracts on the bench...waving the white flag in November

Dude I know we're a laughing stock right now, but doing something like that would make this F/O the worst in the history of sports..

Our young guys are not even that good

“our young guys are not good”. Great insight as always from RAINMAN 😂

Yeah... that's what our record indicates

I'm not saying they can't get better, but right now they are not better than anyone playing in front of them..

[/quote You can't just look at the W/L column just like you cant just look at point totals or "fast break points" to determine how good a player is.

Thought Payton won the job then got hurt. Opening night Frank looked like a deer in the headlights. Smith Looked worse. Trier had his opportunity and had others since. Ellington not hitting his shots. Iso Zoe is not comfortable creating. Blame Fiz, Circumstance or whom ever but I recall Payton got the gig then he got hurt and he too looked bad.
Dot has earned his minutes from the back of the line and Frank can win a game with defense. Can Trier?
Frank is longest tenured Knick, Payton is the experienced one. Pre Bereavement Dennis was either hurt or out of shape. In my opinion it was his job walking in. I doubt there was any plan to play RJ at the point but Frank's freaky start really must have rattled Fiz and the coaching staff. Not everything is Fiz, he has a whole group of coaches also. Its his responsibility as head coach but our PG group looked bad and not a one of them stood up. Dennis last night was fantastic to see. Hope his back holds up and he can build on this. Its not going to be linear or consistent with him.

Vmart wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Vmart wrote:We are losing with the vets anyways why not the play the young kids.
The best starting line up would be:
Dotson sg
Knox pf
Robinson c
RJ sg
Frank g

Trier back up to RJ
Smith backup pg
Morris backup sf
Randle backup pf
Gibson backup C
Portis and Iggy toss up

And keep 74 millions worth of contracts on the bench...waving the white flag in November

Dude I know we're a laughing stock right now, but doing something like that would make this F/O the worst in the history of sports..

Our young guys are not even that good

“our young guys are not good”. Great insight as always from RAINMAN 😂

Yeah... that's what our record indicates

I'm not saying they can't get better, but right now they are not better than anyone playing in front of them..

[/quote You can't just look at the W/L column just like you cant just look at point totals or "fast break points" to determine how good a player is.

Believe it or not the young guys the Knicks have are good. Matter of fact I would them up against any other young team out there and they would hold their own. This perception of grass is greener has to stop the young we have, have it harder than most one because they play with pressures the others don’t even deal with. And they have an organization that has been quite bad at it for a long time and now they have a dog house mentality coach who is not a motivator but a demotes based on illogical emotional biased based coaching. Agenda driven management.

If developed properly NYK young players are going to get better and better but the coach has to go he is hindering development.

I love our kids. Mitch is probably my favorite Knick. Despite what a certain person says Mitch makes a huge impact. The only thing he needs to work on is cutting down on the fouls. RJ looks like a great pick and once he gets his FT's in order he is gonna be very tough to stop. Knox has taken a big step forward with his shooting he juts need to become a better defender. Frank and DSJ have been inconsistent at times BUT as we saw last night they both bring big impacts in different ways. Dotson is another one I am a fan of even if he is a bit older.

All three PG were available for the first game of the season. Fizdale being a nut bag tried to look the genius and it back fired on him. Fizdale couldn’t see talent if it bit him in the azz. He is hold the team back in a major way.

There isn't a FIZ dog house, and it's stupid to think there is. He just can't play 13 to 14 guys every game, no one does that.

The veterans are going to get more RUN, and he trust them more, like 99% of coaches do.

FIZ rotation is always going to come under fire because

1)most of his players are too inconsistent

2)almost all of his players are around the same skill level

3)None of his players are truly 2 way players, so he has to juggle between a defensive player or a fast player, or an offensive player.

Fiz just struggles really hard to find a balance

Fiz is trash, until he starts holding these big contract players accountable for ruining game flow. He has to go, Ask yourself why does Randle, Portis and Morris can do what they please and as soon as any other youngin not named Barrett make one mistake they get nailed to the bench. I mean Knox was shooting 44% from 3, why not run him off screens? Taking the ball out of your PG hand and having the human turnover machine setting up HIS offence is just plain dumb. This is why I want his dumbass fired. Randle is not the only one waving off and not passing to the younger players Morris does it as well.