Knicks · Looking for signs of hope. Feedback please. (page 1)

First I have to say I'm not convinced the Knicks will ever be good with Dolan as owner, but I'm still hoping. I travel full-time so don't get to watch many games. I do read the forums here and whatever I find on the internet.

I'm thinking there are a few positives this year, but I'd like to hear from you folks that get to watch a lot more than I do.

1) RJ Barrett looks like he will be at least a solid pro with potential to be more.
2) Mitch is an impact player and just needs to figure out how to stay in the game.
3) Frank is a disruptive defensive force and is showing some signs of life on the offense end.

What do you think of these three?

Would also like feedback on Dennis Smith, Randle and Knox. Everyone else I view
as low ceiling players or rentals - or both.

Thanks for any insights.

Not convinced about Smith and Randle... they have issues which they may not be able to overcome.
See then as future trade bites.
RJ, Mitch, and Frank are already no-brainers. I want to see Knox and Dot more.
Trier is tricky. To get something from him you need to play him a lot but he juts takes time out of team development.
Not sure if he worth it. Something anything for him will be cool but unlikely.
The rest of vets are there transitionally. We will see a lot of this placeholders next 2-3 seasons.

This is pretty awesome.

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arkrud wrote:Not convinced about Smith and Randle... they have issues which they may not be able to overcome.
See then as future trade bites.
RJ, Mitch, and Frank are already no-brainers. I want to see Knox and Dot more.
Trier is tricky. To get something from him you need to play him a lot but he juts takes time out of team development.
Not sure if he worth it. Something anything for him will be cool but unlikely.
The rest of vets are there transitionally. We will see a lot of this placeholders next 2-3 seasons.

All of this sounds very close to my thinking - still hoping Knox, Smith and Randle show something.

CrushAlot wrote:This is pretty awesome.

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/bryangibberman/status/1196095090927620097?s=21

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Thanks, that's interesting his ability to contribute a lot without a lot of usage is special.

OldFan wrote:

arkrud wrote:Not convinced about Smith and Randle... they have issues which they may not be able to overcome.
See then as future trade bites.
RJ, Mitch, and Frank are already no-brainers. I want to see Knox and Dot more.
Trier is tricky. To get something from him you need to play him a lot but he juts takes time out of team development.
Not sure if he worth it. Something anything for him will be cool but unlikely.
The rest of vets are there transitionally. We will see a lot of this placeholders next 2-3 seasons.

All of this sounds very close to my thinking - still hoping Knox, Smith and Randle show something.

Honestly, I'm encouraged by the steps Knox has taken. He went from historically bad to a legit bench producer. He still needs to improve, but he's trending up. Trier already does one thing at NBA level, and that's score. There have been plenty of games where we could've used him and he can't get off the bench. Smith looks like he's getting his mojo back. Randle...I like him, but it's getting hard to defend him.

The 2020 NBA Draft is a VERY VERY strong beacon of hope.

Frank could end up being on multiple All-NBA defensives.

BigDaddyG wrote:

OldFan wrote:

arkrud wrote:Not convinced about Smith and Randle... they have issues which they may not be able to overcome.
See then as future trade bites.
RJ, Mitch, and Frank are already no-brainers. I want to see Knox and Dot more.
Trier is tricky. To get something from him you need to play him a lot but he juts takes time out of team development.
Not sure if he worth it. Something anything for him will be cool but unlikely.
The rest of vets are there transitionally. We will see a lot of this placeholders next 2-3 seasons.

All of this sounds very close to my thinking - still hoping Knox, Smith and Randle show something.

Honestly, I'm encouraged by the steps Knox has taken. He went from historically bad to a legit bench producer. He still needs to improve, but he's trending up. Trier already does one thing at NBA level, and that's score. There have been plenty of games where we could've used him and he can't get off the bench. Smith looks like he's getting his mojo back. Randle...I like him, but it's getting hard to defend him.

Knox is young so I have hope, but how has he looked on defense?

"Not convinced".......Nothing is ever guaranteed. My faith is the continued process of player development and drafting. AKA: No starphuching.
Dolan is an issure. That I AM CONVINCED! He he panics with fans. Record is pathetic and we call for Everyone's head 10 games in.

Reasons to be cheerful is perhaps things could be worse:

1. FIBA FRANK. He is here. FIBA Frank in the tournament did not kill it every game either. WE see he is improving on offense especially when he has the ball and is penetrating/Creating. Since this is "Signs of hope" thread not "whats wrong" we can stop there. Given we have one healthy PG of 4 is not optimum but at least frank is getting good minutes. No he is not allstar championship caliper PG.

2. Randle. Glass full or empty? What was the expectation? He is not allstar nor used to the crush of being the Alpha on offense. That shot looks like Willis Reed or Zach Randolph. Julius is a good 3-4th option. We need 1 and 2.

3. Morris. See Randle.

4. RJ Barrett. We should be more excited. He won't be 20 until Mid June. This is a kid who basically spend his biological senior year in high school at Duke. Built like a brick shythouse this is a big reason to be hopeful. The fact we are not hyping him more is a good sign. He might not be Zion, but imagine how that would have felt. WE get the top pick and then that? This early there was a big drop off in top 3 picks on down. We consider ourselves fortunate.
5. Mitch.
6. Knox. I like him off the bench. He plays well he stays. Not like last season when there was few alternatives and we just let him rack up "experiences". Bigger, stronger and a higher standard.
7. Our picks, Dallas' picks and cap space. Its opportunities.

How does this all add up? Hopeful. Dolan could have panicked fired Fiz. All of KP's prognostications would have been true as for free agents fears be realized that was are not stable. Im not as down on Fiz as some of you but that's not really an endorsement as much as not wanting to fire a guy after one season and 10 games with a team not that much in disarray as could be. I think you have a team with big salary and expectations coming off a failed playoff run with improvements made and after 10 games the lingering problems from previous year carry over and worse. The the effect you lost the lockerroom. THEN, you fire the coach in the first month.

Nothing is convincing but I don't make changes until the off season when I have more metrics to evaluate this team and the progress of youth. I don't expect all players to stick and would see it as progress to move or release. If Trier is not up to the task we should cut him loose. Thats not a failure to develop, that actually a progress that others are!!! Trier was not drafted for a reason.

Good thread

This is how I view our hope:

1. Barrett- Thrown in the worst situation in the league, in a volatile franchise and a market that turns every little detail into a massive bomb of turmoil, he has quickly established himself as one of the best players of the team with a knack of doing everything already and also having a universe of potential. Free throws have been his biggest kryptonite.

2. Robinson- Keeps proving to be a difference maker no matter how much he pays. Active on defense, efficient on offense, this guy is definitely a key part of the future. Growing pains with the fouls and improving his durability are concerns to deal with this season.

3. Knox- Showing vast improvements on offense from last year, Knox seems to be intent on becoming a complete player. He has so much potential for that. His biggest issue is defense, where his improvement hasn't been that clear. Only the second year for this young player everyone gave up on but could prove to be a keeper.

4. Frank- Could this be the case of a really slow pace on becoming a star? Frank shows so much star power on defense sometimes that its understandable he drives many crazy with his passiveness on offense. Yet this year he has shown improvements on aggressiveness to make some grow back some hope. Could it fully happen this season? Before all is set and done, Frank could achieve his original potential, but at a pace slower than most wanted. Will that be in NY?

5. Smith Jr.- I haven't been much of a fan of his. This season has been brutal for him. To come back from his personal leave with a strong game to lead the Knicks to a win said something about him. Health issues make him a risk as a piece for the future, but the talent is there. Will there be a change in his mentality to make it all come together? Hopefully, but hard to see when there hasn't been any consistency from him.

6. Trier- I have no idea what is happening here. Games of solid play, of taking over portions of games are overshadowed by inconsistent shooting and consistently bad defense. Does he need a coaching change more than anyone else? Is he a glorified G-League star? I thought he had the potential to be that change-of-pace, microwave offense many winning teams have. Is there still a future for him? I'd try with a new coach before fully giving up.

*Im very down on Randle. I guess he should be in this list as he is still young, but its my impression that this core doesn't fully share his timeline. His play hasn't helped him at all in claiming the prominent position we were sold on, so at this point I think the Knicks hope his play improves and he has value in the trade market.

Believe the players you named bring something to the table which make them good enough to build around. Agree with the reviews upthread.

If Frank plays more or less at this level all season, same output on offense. A step up from last season. My only concern would be how much to pay him. Im assuming Frank will be a reserve. If for whatever reason Smith jr. doesnt work out, believe mgmt will try to find a starting PG in the draft who can have an immediate impact. Who doesnt need years of seasoning. Not easy to find, but we do have those extra draft picks. More chips on the table.

We need a more impactful PG, that continues to be a big deal.

When Bullock and Payton are ready, 2 players minutes will be heavily impacted, KNOX and FRANK.

Bullock can shoot and play decent D, payton play's solid D, pushes the pace, and gets to the basket..

I just think that they way this roster is constructed, it's going to be difficult for most of our young guys to get consistent minutes which is detrimental to their development..

we can not keep frank on the floor avg 5pp, plus he is having a hard time guarding fast players, knox is a turnstile on defense.

Mitch and RJ are legit NBA players

Trier and Dotson need a define role, and will benefit from better pg play.

Morris and TAJ are solid players

Randle is confused and putting too much pressure on himself, probably in the wrong role as well.

knicks1248 wrote:We need a more impactful PG, that continues to be a big deal.

When Bullock and Payton are ready, 2 players minutes will be heavily impacted, KNOX and FRANK.

Bullock can shoot and play decent D, payton play's solid D, pushes the pace, and gets to the basket..

I just think that they way this roster is constructed, it's going to be difficult for most of our young guys to get consistent minutes which is detrimental to their development..

we can not keep frank on the floor avg 5pp, plus he is having a hard time guarding fast players, knox is a turnstile on defense.

Mitch and RJ are legit NBA players

Trier and Dotson need a define role, and will benefit from better pg play.

Morris and TAJ are solid players

Randle is confused and putting too much pressure on himself, probably in the wrong role as well.

The thread is called "Reasons for hope".

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:We need a more impactful PG, that continues to be a big deal.

When Bullock and Payton are ready, 2 players minutes will be heavily impacted, KNOX and FRANK.

Bullock can shoot and play decent D, payton play's solid D, pushes the pace, and gets to the basket..

I just think that they way this roster is constructed, it's going to be difficult for most of our young guys to get consistent minutes which is detrimental to their development..

we can not keep frank on the floor avg 5pp, plus he is having a hard time guarding fast players, knox is a turnstile on defense.

Mitch and RJ are legit NBA players

Trier and Dotson need a define role, and will benefit from better pg play.

Morris and TAJ are solid players

Randle is confused and putting too much pressure on himself, probably in the wrong role as well.

The thread is called "Reasons for hope".

see mitch and RJ

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:We need a more impactful PG, that continues to be a big deal.

When Bullock and Payton are ready, 2 players minutes will be heavily impacted, KNOX and FRANK.

Bullock can shoot and play decent D, payton play's solid D, pushes the pace, and gets to the basket..

I just think that they way this roster is constructed, it's going to be difficult for most of our young guys to get consistent minutes which is detrimental to their development..

we can not keep frank on the floor avg 5pp, plus he is having a hard time guarding fast players, knox is a turnstile on defense.

Mitch and RJ are legit NBA players

Trier and Dotson need a define role, and will benefit from better pg play.

Morris and TAJ are solid players

Randle is confused and putting too much pressure on himself, probably in the wrong role as well.

The thread is called "Reasons for hope".

see mitch and RJ

Im sure you exercised every bit of restraint!

Reasons for hope?

The best players are the young guys. RJ, MItch, Frank, knox, DSjr, Dotson. These guys should play.

Gibson, Morris and LEts see who else can add to it. RIght now, Fiz needs to figure out how to use Randle properly. Being the ball handler is NOT IT!!

I think the single greatest source of hope is the Rangers. While they haven't won a chip with Dolan as owner, they have went from laughingstock, to Stanley Cup contender, to announcing to the fans they were going to rebuild, to installing a new coach, a new GM, and a new president... the Rangers by and large are viewed as an organization that does things right. I think Dolan likes to play around with the Knicks so it is easier said than done. That said, a team Dolan owns has done quire well outside of the Knicks

SupremeCommander wrote:I think the single greatest source of hope is the Rangers. While they haven't won a chip with Dolan as owner, they have went from laughingstock, to Stanley Cup contender, to announcing to the fans they were going to rebuild, to installing a new coach, a new GM, and a new president... the Rangers by and large are viewed as an organization that does things right. I think Dolan likes to play around with the Knicks so it is easier said than done. That said, a team Dolan owns has done quire well outside of the Knicks

This is a good point, considering I was thinking we were doomed by Dolan.

OldFan wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I think the single greatest source of hope is the Rangers. While they haven't won a chip with Dolan as owner, they have went from laughingstock, to Stanley Cup contender, to announcing to the fans they were going to rebuild, to installing a new coach, a new GM, and a new president... the Rangers by and large are viewed as an organization that does things right. I think Dolan likes to play around with the Knicks so it is easier said than done. That said, a team Dolan owns has done quire well outside of the Knicks

This is a good point, considering I was thinking we were doomed by Dolan.

That is a very good point.

I'm not familiar with the Rangers operation, the coach, GM or the Prez, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that he has much more experience people running the Rangers, and not his BFF

Could be he makes new FFF’S?