Knicks · Do you fire Fizdale? (page 7)

Haywood was not good last year. Kemba is organizationally better than Kyrie for that team. Tatum and Brown a year more developed.
Boston record speaks for itself.
Trier did not take a step backwards, the knicks are expecting more. Trier is “buckets”. Not much else.

Chandler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Chandler wrote:Another excuse

Brad Stevens lost Kyrie and Horford and no Hayward this game

And they’re playing better

Fizz wants LeBron to hide his bad coaching

And still Stevens has 2 allstars (Tatum and Kemba) to spare. If you take all the players playing tonight and put them in a draft, 3 celtics come off the before you get a Knick player.

your love of Fizz and the FO has blinded you. You missed the point entirely

Stevens has less talent than he had last year, yet the team is playing better than last year (point isn't that they beat us; everyone beats us)

Fizzdale has 70+million of new toys, proven hard working vets (so we were told) and they're playing worse; both the vets and the youth

to defend him or the FO is incomprehensible.

It's all BS juvenile crap with this team; last year it was the stupid ax cutting down the tree; this year the FDNY sweatshirt. We're going to practice with a 12s shot clock and in the first game after that plant piece the team demonstrates how to waste 12 seconds off each possession with silly weaves and purposeless lazy passing

Fizz's stupidity is as easy to see as this: on offense we run largely iso putting our guy up against their defender of choice. On D we switch a ton so their offensive guy goes up against their defender of choice.

We ask Randle to dribble; DSJ to launch 30' bombs, and Frank to mimic D.ROse

Then after the game we blame the players

and not to nitpick I don't think Tatum has been picked as an allstar (yet though he will be)

your love of Fizz and the FO has blinded you. You missed the point entirely

Love? Nah, just being objective. Last year, the FO, Owner and Coach all seemed to be on board for a complete tank job and gutting the roster of salary. W' and L's didn't matter last year, just development. Mitch made all 2nd team all rookie as a 2nd rounder, and hate him or love him Mudiay had his best year as a pro and Zo looked like an end of the 1st round player. Fiz should get some credit for that no?! In the end, last year was a wash, so we want to fire him after 20 games?

This year's goals shifted some, and thats on the front office as they put him a tough spot, trying to make a push for 8th seed with a clumsy roster. And because this team aint meeting the expectations of some delusional fans who dont have the stomach to rebuild, he needs to be fired? In the middle of the second year of a rebuild?!
Thats like the Sixers firing Brett Brown in season 2 of the Philly rebuild when after winning only 18 games.

Stevens has less talent than he had last year, yet the team is playing better than last year (point isn't that they beat us; everyone beats us)

So if Stevens had more talent last year, why couldn't he win? Is that an indictment of him, or do we give him a pass because he was the anointed one?

So its Fiz's fault the front office over spent on broken toys and a box of parts that don't quite fit? As far as the youth is concerned, Frank is playing his best ball of his career thus far, but I'm sure Fiz wont get credit for that.

With all that said, Fiz is not without his faults. I can't stand all the switching on PNR's but its a philosophy and style of play a loe of NBA coaches employ. I prefer trapping the PNR, which the Knicks did yesterday or hedging so that the guard can recover after getting picked. I dont like the ides of some of our young players (Zo) collecting DNP's while while redundant players (Ellington) get minutes ahead of them. Outside of a few blow outss, nothing that I've seen this year warrants Fiz to get fired this early, in my opinion.

Uptown wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Chandler wrote:Another excuse

Brad Stevens lost Kyrie and Horford and no Hayward this game

And they’re playing better

Fizz wants LeBron to hide his bad coaching

And still Stevens has 2 allstars (Tatum and Kemba) to spare. If you take all the players playing tonight and put them in a draft, 3 celtics come off the before you get a Knick player.

your love of Fizz and the FO has blinded you. You missed the point entirely

Stevens has less talent than he had last year, yet the team is playing better than last year (point isn't that they beat us; everyone beats us)

Fizzdale has 70+million of new toys, proven hard working vets (so we were told) and they're playing worse; both the vets and the youth

to defend him or the FO is incomprehensible.

It's all BS juvenile crap with this team; last year it was the stupid ax cutting down the tree; this year the FDNY sweatshirt. We're going to practice with a 12s shot clock and in the first game after that plant piece the team demonstrates how to waste 12 seconds off each possession with silly weaves and purposeless lazy passing

Fizz's stupidity is as easy to see as this: on offense we run largely iso putting our guy up against their defender of choice. On D we switch a ton so their offensive guy goes up against their defender of choice.

We ask Randle to dribble; DSJ to launch 30' bombs, and Frank to mimic D.ROse

Then after the game we blame the players

and not to nitpick I don't think Tatum has been picked as an allstar (yet though he will be)

your love of Fizz and the FO has blinded you. You missed the point entirely

Love? Nah, just being objective. Last year, the FO, Owner and Coach all seemed to be on board for a complete tank job and gutting the roster of salary. W' and L's didn't matter last year, just development. Mitch made all 2nd team all rookie as a 2nd rounder, and hate him or love him Mudiay had his best year as a pro and Zo looked like an end of the 1st round player. Fiz should get some credit for that no?! In the end, last year was a wash, so we want to fire him after 20 games?

This year's goals shifted some, and thats on the front office as they put him a tough spot, trying to make a push for 8th seed with a clumsy roster. And because this team aint meeting the expectations of some delusional fans who dont have the stomach to rebuild, he needs to be fired? In the middle of the second year of a rebuild?!
Thats like the Sixers firing Brett Brown in season 2 of the Philly rebuild when after winning only 18 games.

Stevens has less talent than he had last year, yet the team is playing better than last year (point isn't that they beat us; everyone beats us)

So if Stevens had more talent last year, why couldn't he win? Is that an indictment of him, or do we give him a pass because he was the anointed one?

So its Fiz's fault the front office over spent on broken toys and a box of parts that don't quite fit? As far as the youth is concerned, Frank is playing his best ball of his career thus far, but I'm sure Fiz wont get credit for that.

With all that said, Fiz is not without his faults. I can't stand all the switching on PNR's but its a philosophy and style of play a loe of NBA coaches employ. I prefer trapping the PNR, which the Knicks did yesterday or hedging so that the guard can recover after getting picked. I dont like the ides of some of our young players (Zo) collecting DNP's while while redundant players (Ellington) get minutes ahead of them. Outside of a few blow outss, nothing that I've seen this year warrants Fiz to get fired this early, in my opinion.

You are crazy, he has done one damn thing to say he shouldn't be fired..

Flawed roster or not, our record is worse than last season dude, on pace for 15 wins.

and we are 3-11 since frank started

why would fiz get any credit for frank? he's done everything he can to stunt the kids growth.

knicks1248 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Chandler wrote:Another excuse

Brad Stevens lost Kyrie and Horford and no Hayward this game

And they’re playing better

Fizz wants LeBron to hide his bad coaching

And still Stevens has 2 allstars (Tatum and Kemba) to spare. If you take all the players playing tonight and put them in a draft, 3 celtics come off the before you get a Knick player.

your love of Fizz and the FO has blinded you. You missed the point entirely

Stevens has less talent than he had last year, yet the team is playing better than last year (point isn't that they beat us; everyone beats us)

Fizzdale has 70+million of new toys, proven hard working vets (so we were told) and they're playing worse; both the vets and the youth

to defend him or the FO is incomprehensible.

It's all BS juvenile crap with this team; last year it was the stupid ax cutting down the tree; this year the FDNY sweatshirt. We're going to practice with a 12s shot clock and in the first game after that plant piece the team demonstrates how to waste 12 seconds off each possession with silly weaves and purposeless lazy passing

Fizz's stupidity is as easy to see as this: on offense we run largely iso putting our guy up against their defender of choice. On D we switch a ton so their offensive guy goes up against their defender of choice.

We ask Randle to dribble; DSJ to launch 30' bombs, and Frank to mimic D.ROse

Then after the game we blame the players

and not to nitpick I don't think Tatum has been picked as an allstar (yet though he will be)

your love of Fizz and the FO has blinded you. You missed the point entirely

Love? Nah, just being objective. Last year, the FO, Owner and Coach all seemed to be on board for a complete tank job and gutting the roster of salary. W' and L's didn't matter last year, just development. Mitch made all 2nd team all rookie as a 2nd rounder, and hate him or love him Mudiay had his best year as a pro and Zo looked like an end of the 1st round player. Fiz should get some credit for that no?! In the end, last year was a wash, so we want to fire him after 20 games?

This year's goals shifted some, and thats on the front office as they put him a tough spot, trying to make a push for 8th seed with a clumsy roster. And because this team aint meeting the expectations of some delusional fans who dont have the stomach to rebuild, he needs to be fired? In the middle of the second year of a rebuild?!
Thats like the Sixers firing Brett Brown in season 2 of the Philly rebuild when after winning only 18 games.

Stevens has less talent than he had last year, yet the team is playing better than last year (point isn't that they beat us; everyone beats us)

So if Stevens had more talent last year, why couldn't he win? Is that an indictment of him, or do we give him a pass because he was the anointed one?

So its Fiz's fault the front office over spent on broken toys and a box of parts that don't quite fit? As far as the youth is concerned, Frank is playing his best ball of his career thus far, but I'm sure Fiz wont get credit for that.

With all that said, Fiz is not without his faults. I can't stand all the switching on PNR's but its a philosophy and style of play a loe of NBA coaches employ. I prefer trapping the PNR, which the Knicks did yesterday or hedging so that the guard can recover after getting picked. I dont like the ides of some of our young players (Zo) collecting DNP's while while redundant players (Ellington) get minutes ahead of them. Outside of a few blow outss, nothing that I've seen this year warrants Fiz to get fired this early, in my opinion.

You are crazy, he has done one damn thing to say he shouldn't be fired..

Flawed roster or not, our record is worse than last season dude, on pace for 15 wins.

and we are 3-11 since frank started

Record... Record... you are like broken record... Who cares about team record this year?
We should be the last 5 and the rest is irrelevant.

anrst wrote:why would fiz get any credit for frank? he's done everything he can to stunt the kids growth.

Frank has been the starting point guard for over a month and has been averaging 30 mins a game! How is he stunting his growth?

Uptown wrote:

anrst wrote:why would fiz get any credit for frank? he's done everything he can to stunt the kids growth.

Frank has been the starting point guard for over a month and has been averaging 30 mins a game! How is he stunting his growth?

Fans are upset. Their toy is not working. Little puppy cannot do the tricks and shit all over the place.
So blame the breeder. Puppy is defective!!!

arkrud wrote:

Record... Record... you are like broken record... Who cares about team record this year?
We should be the last 5 and the rest is irrelevant.

Could you just save us all alot of time and change your username to "tankud"?

jrodmc wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Record... Record... you are like broken record... Who cares about team record this year?
We should be the last 5 and the rest is irrelevant.

Could you just save us all alot of time and change your username to "tankud"?

LMAO

He is completely immune to losing, if the knick lose 82 games he thinks we're on the path to greatness, like there's 10 kobe's in every draft..

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:an "improved" Knox doesn't mean a good player, lol

And if the career player you are referring to is Randle, keep in mind of the players he was playing with as well. The game is different when teams aren't necessarily planning their defense around you.

but to the question, I voted no. I am really surprised at how high expectations were for this team. I am disappointed at our current record but only because I felt we lost some games in the fourth, that we could have won but that's on FO for not being able to bring in star players.

The point is that we have much better players this year than we did the past couple of years and we are on pace to win maybe 2/3 more games than last years record. It’s flat out unacceptable you me. I knew we were going to have a losing record but the talent level at the bare minimum should have us winning 29 games. This team was better than Horneceks team and he was fired for only winning 29.

When do you start to blame the players? Think everyone is falsely under the impression the NBA is like a HS squad and the coach is responsible to teach guys a system and how to play. Or like a NCAA type system in which everyone is equal. Fact is the NBA is a players league in which you run the same basic sets. If the players don't make buckets then they don't win. Coach calls a few set plays and in bounds but really only effects a game by the players he decides to play. In fairness to Fiz, that is also decided by the FO and the direction they want him to go. It's obvious the FO/Dolan wants to give these FA's most of the run and try to win. Would rather the young kids go but to blame the coach is a bit naive.

But that is part of the coach's job Hofstra. Heck, Fiz listed that as one of his goals when he took the job. I agree, the players need to step up. But I'm not confident we have a coach to put them in the best position to get them there. I know Pop isn't walking through that door, but neither is LeBron. Fix needs to do a better job of adjusting to his personnel.

What do you both suggest he do differently? Add some more PnR's? RnR type movement? If you look at all the coaches we have had since 2001. what more complex systems did they run? Did not fans complain about those as well? We have not had a winning team since 2001. Other then Woodson with Melo. And you know what most thought about those offensive schemes.

In terms of improving a players game, is that really an NBA coaches responsibility? I hear this a lot on the boards. I mean if Mitch keeps fouling 3pt shooters and not able to set proper picks, does the Head coach work on that in practices? If so, he would be a skills trainer and not a coach. Is Fiz responsible for Mitch learning a 10 foot shot? I haven't seen Mitch take a 10 foot shot in two years. One would think he has a trainer to work on that in the off season. Are we to give Fiz the credit for guys like Dotson and Frank working on their outside shots. One would think Knox has a trainer that works on a pull up game. Do agree that he has to set the tone and personality of a team and is responsible for keeping better match ups on the floor but think most fans put way too much on a coach due to frustration. And again, if guys are hitting shots at a high click, coaches look like geniuses.

Regardless, in pro sports, if you don't win you get replaced. May be 50% scapegoat but you will get replaced. A coach is also to blame if players are not responding. Obvious that Fiz is not going to last. Problem I see is that fans just don't get the fact it takes a coach a few years to develop a teams identity and is not the reason a team sucks. Specially when you look at the OBVIOUS level of talent on the roster. You would think fans would notice how 4 coaches in 5 years seems to point to another possible cause. And hate to let everyone know, with this level of talent, Pat Riley and Pop would maybe have an extra 4 wins at this juncture. Does everyone remember Larry Brown experiment and Lenny Wilkins? Possible HOF coaches that could not help bad teams either.

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:an "improved" Knox doesn't mean a good player, lol

And if the career player you are referring to is Randle, keep in mind of the players he was playing with as well. The game is different when teams aren't necessarily planning their defense around you.

but to the question, I voted no. I am really surprised at how high expectations were for this team. I am disappointed at our current record but only because I felt we lost some games in the fourth, that we could have won but that's on FO for not being able to bring in star players.

The point is that we have much better players this year than we did the past couple of years and we are on pace to win maybe 2/3 more games than last years record. It’s flat out unacceptable you me. I knew we were going to have a losing record but the talent level at the bare minimum should have us winning 29 games. This team was better than Horneceks team and he was fired for only winning 29.

When do you start to blame the players? Think everyone is falsely under the impression the NBA is like a HS squad and the coach is responsible to teach guys a system and how to play. Or like a NCAA type system in which everyone is equal. Fact is the NBA is a players league in which you run the same basic sets. If the players don't make buckets then they don't win. Coach calls a few set plays and in bounds but really only effects a game by the players he decides to play. In fairness to Fiz, that is also decided by the FO and the direction they want him to go. It's obvious the FO/Dolan wants to give these FA's most of the run and try to win. Would rather the young kids go but to blame the coach is a bit naive.

But that is part of the coach's job Hofstra. Heck, Fiz listed that as one of his goals when he took the job. I agree, the players need to step up. But I'm not confident we have a coach to put them in the best position to get them there. I know Pop isn't walking through that door, but neither is LeBron. Fix needs to do a better job of adjusting to his personnel.

What do you both suggest he do differently? Add some more PnR's? RnR type movement? If you look at all the coaches we have had since 2001. what more complex systems did they run? Did not fans complain about those as well? We have not had a winning team since 2001 other then Woodson and Melo. And you know what most thought about those offensive schemes.

In terms of improving a players game, is that really an NBA coaches are responsibility? I hear this a lot on the boards. I mean if Mitch keeps fouling 3pt shooters and not able to set proper picks, does the Head coach work on that in practices? If so, he would be a skills trainer and not a coach. Is Fiz responsible for Mitch learning a 10 foot shot? I haven't seen Mitch take a 10 foot shot in two years. One would think he has a trainer to work on that in the off season. Are we to give Fiz the credit for guys like Dotson and Frank working on their outside shots. One would think Knox has a trainer that works on a pull up game. Do agree that he has to set the tone and personality of a team and is responsible for keeping better match ups on the floor but think most fans put way too much on a coach due to frustration. And again, if guys are hitting shots at a high click, coaches look like geniuses.

Regardless, in pro sports, if you don't win you get replaced. May be 50% scapegoat but you will get replaced. A coach is also to blame if players are not responding. Obvious that Fiz is not going to last. Problem I see is that fans just don't get the fact it takes a coach a few years to develop a teams identity and is not the reason a team sucks. Specially when you look at the OBVIOUS level of talent on the roster. You would think fans would notice how 4 coaches in 5 years seems to point to another possible cause. And hate to let everyone know, with this level of talent, Pat Riley and Pop would maybe have an extra 4 wins at this juncture. Does everyone remember Larry Brown experiment and Lenny Wilkins? Possible HOF coaches that could not help bad teams either.

there are plenty of coaches who have inherited a given squad and had major impacts on w/l, see, e.g., Budenholzer and Kerr

Yes talent is king; but coaching matters too. A couple years back Pop was beating many teams in the league sitting his starting five.

Up here in Celtics land the announcers were fond of saying a good coach develops players or wins games, a great coach does both

Back in the day Bill Fitch was thought to be a developer but couldn't deliver the goods (i.e., titles); KC Jones could deliver the goods but wasn't renowned for development.

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:an "improved" Knox doesn't mean a good player, lol

And if the career player you are referring to is Randle, keep in mind of the players he was playing with as well. The game is different when teams aren't necessarily planning their defense around you.

but to the question, I voted no. I am really surprised at how high expectations were for this team. I am disappointed at our current record but only because I felt we lost some games in the fourth, that we could have won but that's on FO for not being able to bring in star players.

The point is that we have much better players this year than we did the past couple of years and we are on pace to win maybe 2/3 more games than last years record. It’s flat out unacceptable you me. I knew we were going to have a losing record but the talent level at the bare minimum should have us winning 29 games. This team was better than Horneceks team and he was fired for only winning 29.

When do you start to blame the players? Think everyone is falsely under the impression the NBA is like a HS squad and the coach is responsible to teach guys a system and how to play. Or like a NCAA type system in which everyone is equal. Fact is the NBA is a players league in which you run the same basic sets. If the players don't make buckets then they don't win. Coach calls a few set plays and in bounds but really only effects a game by the players he decides to play. In fairness to Fiz, that is also decided by the FO and the direction they want him to go. It's obvious the FO/Dolan wants to give these FA's most of the run and try to win. Would rather the young kids go but to blame the coach is a bit naive.

But that is part of the coach's job Hofstra. Heck, Fiz listed that as one of his goals when he took the job. I agree, the players need to step up. But I'm not confident we have a coach to put them in the best position to get them there. I know Pop isn't walking through that door, but neither is LeBron. Fix needs to do a better job of adjusting to his personnel.

What do you both suggest he do differently? Add some more PnR's? RnR type movement? If you look at all the coaches we have had since 2001. what more complex systems did they run? Did not fans complain about those as well? We have not had a winning team since 2001. Other then Woodson with Melo. And you know what most thought about those offensive schemes.

In terms of improving a players game, is that really an NBA coaches responsibility? I hear this a lot on the boards. I mean if Mitch keeps fouling 3pt shooters and not able to set proper picks, does the Head coach work on that in practices? If so, he would be a skills trainer and not a coach. Is Fiz responsible for Mitch learning a 10 foot shot? I haven't seen Mitch take a 10 foot shot in two years. One would think he has a trainer to work on that in the off season. Are we to give Fiz the credit for guys like Dotson and Frank working on their outside shots. One would think Knox has a trainer that works on a pull up game. Do agree that he has to set the tone and personality of a team and is responsible for keeping better match ups on the floor but think most fans put way too much on a coach due to frustration. And again, if guys are hitting shots at a high click, coaches look like geniuses.

Regardless, in pro sports, if you don't win you get replaced. May be 50% scapegoat but you will get replaced. A coach is also to blame if players are not responding. Obvious that Fiz is not going to last. Problem I see is that fans just don't get the fact it takes a coach a few years to develop a teams identity and is not the reason a team sucks. Specially when you look at the OBVIOUS level of talent on the roster. You would think fans would notice how 4 coaches in 5 years seems to point to another possible cause. And hate to let everyone know, with this level of talent, Pat Riley and Pop would maybe have an extra 4 wins at this juncture. Does everyone remember Larry Brown experiment and Lenny Wilkins? Possible HOF coaches that could not help bad teams either.

Great post. One thing that might be trending against Fiz, Begley pointed out that he thinks some of the guys have tuned him out. Not sure that Mike Miller or someone else on the staff gets them to tune back in.

Chandler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:an "improved" Knox doesn't mean a good player, lol

And if the career player you are referring to is Randle, keep in mind of the players he was playing with as well. The game is different when teams aren't necessarily planning their defense around you.

but to the question, I voted no. I am really surprised at how high expectations were for this team. I am disappointed at our current record but only because I felt we lost some games in the fourth, that we could have won but that's on FO for not being able to bring in star players.

The point is that we have much better players this year than we did the past couple of years and we are on pace to win maybe 2/3 more games than last years record. It’s flat out unacceptable you me. I knew we were going to have a losing record but the talent level at the bare minimum should have us winning 29 games. This team was better than Horneceks team and he was fired for only winning 29.

When do you start to blame the players? Think everyone is falsely under the impression the NBA is like a HS squad and the coach is responsible to teach guys a system and how to play. Or like a NCAA type system in which everyone is equal. Fact is the NBA is a players league in which you run the same basic sets. If the players don't make buckets then they don't win. Coach calls a few set plays and in bounds but really only effects a game by the players he decides to play. In fairness to Fiz, that is also decided by the FO and the direction they want him to go. It's obvious the FO/Dolan wants to give these FA's most of the run and try to win. Would rather the young kids go but to blame the coach is a bit naive.

But that is part of the coach's job Hofstra. Heck, Fiz listed that as one of his goals when he took the job. I agree, the players need to step up. But I'm not confident we have a coach to put them in the best position to get them there. I know Pop isn't walking through that door, but neither is LeBron. Fix needs to do a better job of adjusting to his personnel.

What do you both suggest he do differently? Add some more PnR's? RnR type movement? If you look at all the coaches we have had since 2001. what more complex systems did they run? Did not fans complain about those as well? We have not had a winning team since 2001 other then Woodson and Melo. And you know what most thought about those offensive schemes.

In terms of improving a players game, is that really an NBA coaches are responsibility? I hear this a lot on the boards. I mean if Mitch keeps fouling 3pt shooters and not able to set proper picks, does the Head coach work on that in practices? If so, he would be a skills trainer and not a coach. Is Fiz responsible for Mitch learning a 10 foot shot? I haven't seen Mitch take a 10 foot shot in two years. One would think he has a trainer to work on that in the off season. Are we to give Fiz the credit for guys like Dotson and Frank working on their outside shots. One would think Knox has a trainer that works on a pull up game. Do agree that he has to set the tone and personality of a team and is responsible for keeping better match ups on the floor but think most fans put way too much on a coach due to frustration. And again, if guys are hitting shots at a high click, coaches look like geniuses.

Regardless, in pro sports, if you don't win you get replaced. May be 50% scapegoat but you will get replaced. A coach is also to blame if players are not responding. Obvious that Fiz is not going to last. Problem I see is that fans just don't get the fact it takes a coach a few years to develop a teams identity and is not the reason a team sucks. Specially when you look at the OBVIOUS level of talent on the roster. You would think fans would notice how 4 coaches in 5 years seems to point to another possible cause. And hate to let everyone know, with this level of talent, Pat Riley and Pop would maybe have an extra 4 wins at this juncture. Does everyone remember Larry Brown experiment and Lenny Wilkins? Possible HOF coaches that could not help bad teams either.

there are plenty of coaches who have inherited a given squad and had major impacts on w/l, see, e.g., Budenholzer and Kerr

Yes talent is king; but coaching matters too. A couple years back Pop was beating many teams in the league sitting his starting five.

Up here in Celtics land the announcers were fond of saying a good coach develops players or wins games, a great coach does both

Back in the day Bill Fitch was thought to be a developer but couldn't deliver the goods (i.e., titles); KC Jones could deliver the goods but wasn't renowned for development.

Agree. Coaching is obviously important. Question is when should a rebuilding team give up on a new coach with little talent. And how much is that coach at fault for losing or players getting better? Cant really think of a coach that took over with low talent level and had a major impact within a year of taking over? Burdinger and Kerr inherited some pretty good rosters.

CrushAlot wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:an "improved" Knox doesn't mean a good player, lol

And if the career player you are referring to is Randle, keep in mind of the players he was playing with as well. The game is different when teams aren't necessarily planning their defense around you.

but to the question, I voted no. I am really surprised at how high expectations were for this team. I am disappointed at our current record but only because I felt we lost some games in the fourth, that we could have won but that's on FO for not being able to bring in star players.

The point is that we have much better players this year than we did the past couple of years and we are on pace to win maybe 2/3 more games than last years record. It’s flat out unacceptable you me. I knew we were going to have a losing record but the talent level at the bare minimum should have us winning 29 games. This team was better than Horneceks team and he was fired for only winning 29.

When do you start to blame the players? Think everyone is falsely under the impression the NBA is like a HS squad and the coach is responsible to teach guys a system and how to play. Or like a NCAA type system in which everyone is equal. Fact is the NBA is a players league in which you run the same basic sets. If the players don't make buckets then they don't win. Coach calls a few set plays and in bounds but really only effects a game by the players he decides to play. In fairness to Fiz, that is also decided by the FO and the direction they want him to go. It's obvious the FO/Dolan wants to give these FA's most of the run and try to win. Would rather the young kids go but to blame the coach is a bit naive.

But that is part of the coach's job Hofstra. Heck, Fiz listed that as one of his goals when he took the job. I agree, the players need to step up. But I'm not confident we have a coach to put them in the best position to get them there. I know Pop isn't walking through that door, but neither is LeBron. Fix needs to do a better job of adjusting to his personnel.

What do you both suggest he do differently? Add some more PnR's? RnR type movement? If you look at all the coaches we have had since 2001. what more complex systems did they run? Did not fans complain about those as well? We have not had a winning team since 2001. Other then Woodson with Melo. And you know what most thought about those offensive schemes.

In terms of improving a players game, is that really an NBA coaches responsibility? I hear this a lot on the boards. I mean if Mitch keeps fouling 3pt shooters and not able to set proper picks, does the Head coach work on that in practices? If so, he would be a skills trainer and not a coach. Is Fiz responsible for Mitch learning a 10 foot shot? I haven't seen Mitch take a 10 foot shot in two years. One would think he has a trainer to work on that in the off season. Are we to give Fiz the credit for guys like Dotson and Frank working on their outside shots. One would think Knox has a trainer that works on a pull up game. Do agree that he has to set the tone and personality of a team and is responsible for keeping better match ups on the floor but think most fans put way too much on a coach due to frustration. And again, if guys are hitting shots at a high click, coaches look like geniuses.

Regardless, in pro sports, if you don't win you get replaced. May be 50% scapegoat but you will get replaced. A coach is also to blame if players are not responding. Obvious that Fiz is not going to last. Problem I see is that fans just don't get the fact it takes a coach a few years to develop a teams identity and is not the reason a team sucks. Specially when you look at the OBVIOUS level of talent on the roster. You would think fans would notice how 4 coaches in 5 years seems to point to another possible cause. And hate to let everyone know, with this level of talent, Pat Riley and Pop would maybe have an extra 4 wins at this juncture. Does everyone remember Larry Brown experiment and Lenny Wilkins? Possible HOF coaches that could not help bad teams either.

Great post. One thing that might be trending against Fiz, Begley pointed out that he thinks some of the guys have tuned him out. Not sure that Mike Miller or someone else on the staff gets them to tune back in.

Agree. Main reason why most coaches are fired. So called "Losing the Locker and players" When judging a coach, I always try to look at the effort level and intensity of the team. Think our effort on the defensive side has been pretty good all year. On offense I look at how many open shots an offense is able to produce. Think that this has been pretty good as well. Do feel there is lots of Isolation but once again, this is the NBA. If you look at many of the close games we have lost, it has come down to turnovers down the stretch, missed open shots and even worse bad foul shooting. Things I don't think you can put on the coach. But again, if he is losing player support, there is only one ending. Fans also need to look at what kind of direction he is getting from the FO. It seems to me, the FO is clearly pushing the narrative of winning with the FA's just added. So cant really get mad at him for not playing the younger players.

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:an "improved" Knox doesn't mean a good player, lol

And if the career player you are referring to is Randle, keep in mind of the players he was playing with as well. The game is different when teams aren't necessarily planning their defense around you.

but to the question, I voted no. I am really surprised at how high expectations were for this team. I am disappointed at our current record but only because I felt we lost some games in the fourth, that we could have won but that's on FO for not being able to bring in star players.

The point is that we have much better players this year than we did the past couple of years and we are on pace to win maybe 2/3 more games than last years record. It’s flat out unacceptable you me. I knew we were going to have a losing record but the talent level at the bare minimum should have us winning 29 games. This team was better than Horneceks team and he was fired for only winning 29.

When do you start to blame the players? Think everyone is falsely under the impression the NBA is like a HS squad and the coach is responsible to teach guys a system and how to play. Or like a NCAA type system in which everyone is equal. Fact is the NBA is a players league in which you run the same basic sets. If the players don't make buckets then they don't win. Coach calls a few set plays and in bounds but really only effects a game by the players he decides to play. In fairness to Fiz, that is also decided by the FO and the direction they want him to go. It's obvious the FO/Dolan wants to give these FA's most of the run and try to win. Would rather the young kids go but to blame the coach is a bit naive.

But that is part of the coach's job Hofstra. Heck, Fiz listed that as one of his goals when he took the job. I agree, the players need to step up. But I'm not confident we have a coach to put them in the best position to get them there. I know Pop isn't walking through that door, but neither is LeBron. Fix needs to do a better job of adjusting to his personnel.

What do you both suggest he do differently? Add some more PnR's? RnR type movement? If you look at all the coaches we have had since 2001. what more complex systems did they run? Did not fans complain about those as well? We have not had a winning team since 2001. Other then Woodson with Melo. And you know what most thought about those offensive schemes.

In terms of improving a players game, is that really an NBA coaches responsibility? I hear this a lot on the boards. I mean if Mitch keeps fouling 3pt shooters and not able to set proper picks, does the Head coach work on that in practices? If so, he would be a skills trainer and not a coach. Is Fiz responsible for Mitch learning a 10 foot shot? I haven't seen Mitch take a 10 foot shot in two years. One would think he has a trainer to work on that in the off season. Are we to give Fiz the credit for guys like Dotson and Frank working on their outside shots. One would think Knox has a trainer that works on a pull up game. Do agree that he has to set the tone and personality of a team and is responsible for keeping better match ups on the floor but think most fans put way too much on a coach due to frustration. And again, if guys are hitting shots at a high click, coaches look like geniuses.

Regardless, in pro sports, if you don't win you get replaced. May be 50% scapegoat but you will get replaced. A coach is also to blame if players are not responding. Obvious that Fiz is not going to last. Problem I see is that fans just don't get the fact it takes a coach a few years to develop a teams identity and is not the reason a team sucks. Specially when you look at the OBVIOUS level of talent on the roster. You would think fans would notice how 4 coaches in 5 years seems to point to another possible cause. And hate to let everyone know, with this level of talent, Pat Riley and Pop would maybe have an extra 4 wins at this juncture. Does everyone remember Larry Brown experiment and Lenny Wilkins? Possible HOF coaches that could not help bad teams either.

Great post. One thing that might be trending against Fiz, Begley pointed out that he thinks some of the guys have tuned him out. Not sure that Mike Miller or someone else on the staff gets them to tune back in.

Agree. Main reason why most coaches are fired. So called "Losing the Locker and players" When judging a coach, I always try to look at the effort level and intensity of the team. Think our effort on the defensive side has been pretty good all year. On offense I look at how many open shots an offense is able to produce. Think that this has been pretty good as well. Do feel there is lots of Isolation but once again, this is the NBA. If you look at many of the close games we have lost, it has come down to turnovers down the stretch, missed open shots and even worse bad foul shooting. Things I don't think you can put on the coach. But again, if he is losing player support, there is only one ending. Fans also need to look at what kind of direction he is getting from the FO. It seems to me, the FO is clearly pushing the narrative of winning with the FA's just added. So cant really get mad at him for not playing the younger players.

Fiz's decision making has been part of the reason why we suck. The dude started Kevin Knox at two with Trier and Dot available! That doesn't look like questionable decision making to you? How many times have Randle put in situations we know he's going to fail in? The fans know it. Fiz can't figure out after a few games? How many times have we seen the team go through offensive funks only to see one of our best offensive sparks languishing on the bench? I forget, which game, but there was time late in the fourth quarter where we needed a key defensive stop and refused to sub Frank in. Don't you think that would be the ideal time to use your best perimeter defender? It's not just the players. The dude has the smell if a bad coach.

It is amazing how much this team sucks when Frank does not play and without Morris we are lost. Fiz should be forced to coach through this mess. Why fire him now? Wait till the end of the season.

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:an "improved" Knox doesn't mean a good player, lol

And if the career player you are referring to is Randle, keep in mind of the players he was playing with as well. The game is different when teams aren't necessarily planning their defense around you.

but to the question, I voted no. I am really surprised at how high expectations were for this team. I am disappointed at our current record but only because I felt we lost some games in the fourth, that we could have won but that's on FO for not being able to bring in star players.

The point is that we have much better players this year than we did the past couple of years and we are on pace to win maybe 2/3 more games than last years record. It’s flat out unacceptable you me. I knew we were going to have a losing record but the talent level at the bare minimum should have us winning 29 games. This team was better than Horneceks team and he was fired for only winning 29.

When do you start to blame the players? Think everyone is falsely under the impression the NBA is like a HS squad and the coach is responsible to teach guys a system and how to play. Or like a NCAA type system in which everyone is equal. Fact is the NBA is a players league in which you run the same basic sets. If the players don't make buckets then they don't win. Coach calls a few set plays and in bounds but really only effects a game by the players he decides to play. In fairness to Fiz, that is also decided by the FO and the direction they want him to go. It's obvious the FO/Dolan wants to give these FA's most of the run and try to win. Would rather the young kids go but to blame the coach is a bit naive.

But that is part of the coach's job Hofstra. Heck, Fiz listed that as one of his goals when he took the job. I agree, the players need to step up. But I'm not confident we have a coach to put them in the best position to get them there. I know Pop isn't walking through that door, but neither is LeBron. Fix needs to do a better job of adjusting to his personnel.

What do you both suggest he do differently? Add some more PnR's? RnR type movement? If you look at all the coaches we have had since 2001. what more complex systems did they run? Did not fans complain about those as well? We have not had a winning team since 2001. Other then Woodson with Melo. And you know what most thought about those offensive schemes.

In terms of improving a players game, is that really an NBA coaches responsibility? I hear this a lot on the boards. I mean if Mitch keeps fouling 3pt shooters and not able to set proper picks, does the Head coach work on that in practices? If so, he would be a skills trainer and not a coach. Is Fiz responsible for Mitch learning a 10 foot shot? I haven't seen Mitch take a 10 foot shot in two years. One would think he has a trainer to work on that in the off season. Are we to give Fiz the credit for guys like Dotson and Frank working on their outside shots. One would think Knox has a trainer that works on a pull up game. Do agree that he has to set the tone and personality of a team and is responsible for keeping better match ups on the floor but think most fans put way too much on a coach due to frustration. And again, if guys are hitting shots at a high click, coaches look like geniuses.

Regardless, in pro sports, if you don't win you get replaced. May be 50% scapegoat but you will get replaced. A coach is also to blame if players are not responding. Obvious that Fiz is not going to last. Problem I see is that fans just don't get the fact it takes a coach a few years to develop a teams identity and is not the reason a team sucks. Specially when you look at the OBVIOUS level of talent on the roster. You would think fans would notice how 4 coaches in 5 years seems to point to another possible cause. And hate to let everyone know, with this level of talent, Pat Riley and Pop would maybe have an extra 4 wins at this juncture. Does everyone remember Larry Brown experiment and Lenny Wilkins? Possible HOF coaches that could not help bad teams either.

Great post. One thing that might be trending against Fiz, Begley pointed out that he thinks some of the guys have tuned him out. Not sure that Mike Miller or someone else on the staff gets them to tune back in.

Agree. Main reason why most coaches are fired. So called "Losing the Locker and players" When judging a coach, I always try to look at the effort level and intensity of the team. Think our effort on the defensive side has been pretty good all year. On offense I look at how many open shots an offense is able to produce. Think that this has been pretty good as well. Do feel there is lots of Isolation but once again, this is the NBA. If you look at many of the close games we have lost, it has come down to turnovers down the stretch, missed open shots and even worse bad foul shooting. Things I don't think you can put on the coach. But again, if he is losing player support, there is only one ending. Fans also need to look at what kind of direction he is getting from the FO. It seems to me, the FO is clearly pushing the narrative of winning with the FA's just added. So cant really get mad at him for not playing the younger players.

Fiz's decision making has been part of the reason why we suck. The dude started Kevin Knox at two with Trier and Dot available! That doesn't look like questionable decision making to you. How many times have Randle put in situations we know he's going to fail in? The fans know it. Fiz can't figure out after a few games? How many times have we seen the team go through offensive funks only to see one of our best offensive sparks languishing on the bench? I forget, which game, but there was time late in the fourth quarter where we needed a key defensive stop and refused to sub Frank in. Don't you think that would be the ideal time to use your best perimeter defender? It's not just the players. The dude has the smell if a bad coach.

Agree that most what was mentioned could be criticized. So if Trier or Dot started, and they played badly would it be seen as a bad coaching move? And again, if Knox plays well than its a great move. Keep in mind, Knox not Dot or Trier were starters most of the year last year. How much of Randle putting himself in bad positions is on Randle? Was there not another game in which Frank was on Walker when he hit a winning shot anyway.

Look, the point is not to defend Fiz for some of the things he has done. Or claim he is the man for the job. I wanted other coaches besides him as well. Also agree that some of what you mentioned could have been coached differently. But I am sure that we can analyze any game and any coach and come up with questionable decisions for every game ever played. My point is that just like you can't truly judge a kid like Frank after one year on a lousy team. You can't judge a coach after one year with a lousy roster. This city is the king of impatience. We have gone through 4 coaches in 5 years. For anyone to expect a coach to come in here and turn this around within one year is just not realistic. If fans really need to blame someone for the current situation and losing, how bout they start with the guy in the FO that has been in control since 2013.

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:an "improved" Knox doesn't mean a good player, lol

And if the career player you are referring to is Randle, keep in mind of the players he was playing with as well. The game is different when teams aren't necessarily planning their defense around you.

but to the question, I voted no. I am really surprised at how high expectations were for this team. I am disappointed at our current record but only because I felt we lost some games in the fourth, that we could have won but that's on FO for not being able to bring in star players.

The point is that we have much better players this year than we did the past couple of years and we are on pace to win maybe 2/3 more games than last years record. It’s flat out unacceptable you me. I knew we were going to have a losing record but the talent level at the bare minimum should have us winning 29 games. This team was better than Horneceks team and he was fired for only winning 29.

When do you start to blame the players? Think everyone is falsely under the impression the NBA is like a HS squad and the coach is responsible to teach guys a system and how to play. Or like a NCAA type system in which everyone is equal. Fact is the NBA is a players league in which you run the same basic sets. If the players don't make buckets then they don't win. Coach calls a few set plays and in bounds but really only effects a game by the players he decides to play. In fairness to Fiz, that is also decided by the FO and the direction they want him to go. It's obvious the FO/Dolan wants to give these FA's most of the run and try to win. Would rather the young kids go but to blame the coach is a bit naive.

But that is part of the coach's job Hofstra. Heck, Fiz listed that as one of his goals when he took the job. I agree, the players need to step up. But I'm not confident we have a coach to put them in the best position to get them there. I know Pop isn't walking through that door, but neither is LeBron. Fix needs to do a better job of adjusting to his personnel.

What do you both suggest he do differently? Add some more PnR's? RnR type movement? If you look at all the coaches we have had since 2001. what more complex systems did they run? Did not fans complain about those as well? We have not had a winning team since 2001. Other then Woodson with Melo. And you know what most thought about those offensive schemes.

In terms of improving a players game, is that really an NBA coaches responsibility? I hear this a lot on the boards. I mean if Mitch keeps fouling 3pt shooters and not able to set proper picks, does the Head coach work on that in practices? If so, he would be a skills trainer and not a coach. Is Fiz responsible for Mitch learning a 10 foot shot? I haven't seen Mitch take a 10 foot shot in two years. One would think he has a trainer to work on that in the off season. Are we to give Fiz the credit for guys like Dotson and Frank working on their outside shots. One would think Knox has a trainer that works on a pull up game. Do agree that he has to set the tone and personality of a team and is responsible for keeping better match ups on the floor but think most fans put way too much on a coach due to frustration. And again, if guys are hitting shots at a high click, coaches look like geniuses.

Regardless, in pro sports, if you don't win you get replaced. May be 50% scapegoat but you will get replaced. A coach is also to blame if players are not responding. Obvious that Fiz is not going to last. Problem I see is that fans just don't get the fact it takes a coach a few years to develop a teams identity and is not the reason a team sucks. Specially when you look at the OBVIOUS level of talent on the roster. You would think fans would notice how 4 coaches in 5 years seems to point to another possible cause. And hate to let everyone know, with this level of talent, Pat Riley and Pop would maybe have an extra 4 wins at this juncture. Does everyone remember Larry Brown experiment and Lenny Wilkins? Possible HOF coaches that could not help bad teams either.

Great post. One thing that might be trending against Fiz, Begley pointed out that he thinks some of the guys have tuned him out. Not sure that Mike Miller or someone else on the staff gets them to tune back in.

Agree. Main reason why most coaches are fired. So called "Losing the Locker and players" When judging a coach, I always try to look at the effort level and intensity of the team. Think our effort on the defensive side has been pretty good all year. On offense I look at how many open shots an offense is able to produce. Think that this has been pretty good as well. Do feel there is lots of Isolation but once again, this is the NBA. If you look at many of the close games we have lost, it has come down to turnovers down the stretch, missed open shots and even worse bad foul shooting. Things I don't think you can put on the coach. But again, if he is losing player support, there is only one ending. Fans also need to look at what kind of direction he is getting from the FO. It seems to me, the FO is clearly pushing the narrative of winning with the FA's just added. So cant really get mad at him for not playing the younger players.

Fiz's decision making has been part of the reason why we suck. The dude started Kevin Knox at two with Trier and Dot available! That doesn't look like questionable decision making to you. How many times have Randle put in situations we know he's going to fail in? The fans know it. Fiz can't figure out after a few games? How many times have we seen the team go through offensive funks only to see one of our best offensive sparks languishing on the bench? I forget, which game, but there was time late in the fourth quarter where we needed a key defensive stop and refused to sub Frank in. Don't you think that would be the ideal time to use your best perimeter defender? It's not just the players. The dude has the smell if a bad coach.

Agree that most what was mentioned could be criticized. So if Trier or Dot started, and they played badly would it be seen as a bad coaching move? And again, if Knox plays well than its a great move. Keep in mind, Knox not Dot or Trier were starters most of the year last year. How much of Randle putting himself in bad positions is on Randle? Was there not another game in which Frank was on Walker when he hit a winning shot anyway.

Look, the point is not to defend Fiz for some of the things he has done. Or claim he is the man for the job. I wanted other coaches besides him as well. Also agree that some of what you mentioned could have been coached differently. But I am sure that we can analyze any game and any coach and come up with questionable decisions for every game ever played. My point is that just like you can't truly judge a kid like Frank after one year on a lousy team. You can't judge a coach after one year with a lousy roster. This city is the king of impatience. We have gone through 4 coaches in 5 years. For anyone to expect a coach to come in here and turn this around within one year is just not realistic. If fans really need to blame someone for the current situation and losing, how bout they start with the guy in the FO that has been in control since 2013.

I agree we should give him until All Star break. You could even convince me to give him the whole year. But the dude has not been impressive and he should be gone if this team doesn't improve. If Randle isn't following the game plan, then you give extended minutes on the bench. The coach has that power. Mismatched roster or not, we're still more talented than we were last year. I'm not high on Mills, but he really hasn't been in control since 2013. He was never the GM for more than a season. I agree that he and Perry are on thin ice, and they should go to if things continue.

TheGame wrote:It is amazing how much this team sucks when Frank does not play and without Morris we are lost. Fiz should be forced to coach through this mess. Why fire him now? Wait till the end of the season.

Frank is a tough defender. But we are 4 and 13 with him averaging over 28 minutes per game? 16 which he started.
He is also averaging more minutes per game yet totals have only marginally improved.

Morris is definitely our best scorer and 3pt shooter and I think our best player. But he needs to take responsibility as well for some of his late game shot selection.

EVERYONE on the roster needs to play better and is to blame for the record.

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:an "improved" Knox doesn't mean a good player, lol

And if the career player you are referring to is Randle, keep in mind of the players he was playing with as well. The game is different when teams aren't necessarily planning their defense around you.

but to the question, I voted no. I am really surprised at how high expectations were for this team. I am disappointed at our current record but only because I felt we lost some games in the fourth, that we could have won but that's on FO for not being able to bring in star players.

The point is that we have much better players this year than we did the past couple of years and we are on pace to win maybe 2/3 more games than last years record. It’s flat out unacceptable you me. I knew we were going to have a losing record but the talent level at the bare minimum should have us winning 29 games. This team was better than Horneceks team and he was fired for only winning 29.

When do you start to blame the players? Think everyone is falsely under the impression the NBA is like a HS squad and the coach is responsible to teach guys a system and how to play. Or like a NCAA type system in which everyone is equal. Fact is the NBA is a players league in which you run the same basic sets. If the players don't make buckets then they don't win. Coach calls a few set plays and in bounds but really only effects a game by the players he decides to play. In fairness to Fiz, that is also decided by the FO and the direction they want him to go. It's obvious the FO/Dolan wants to give these FA's most of the run and try to win. Would rather the young kids go but to blame the coach is a bit naive.

But that is part of the coach's job Hofstra. Heck, Fiz listed that as one of his goals when he took the job. I agree, the players need to step up. But I'm not confident we have a coach to put them in the best position to get them there. I know Pop isn't walking through that door, but neither is LeBron. Fix needs to do a better job of adjusting to his personnel.

What do you both suggest he do differently? Add some more PnR's? RnR type movement? If you look at all the coaches we have had since 2001. what more complex systems did they run? Did not fans complain about those as well? We have not had a winning team since 2001. Other then Woodson with Melo. And you know what most thought about those offensive schemes.

In terms of improving a players game, is that really an NBA coaches responsibility? I hear this a lot on the boards. I mean if Mitch keeps fouling 3pt shooters and not able to set proper picks, does the Head coach work on that in practices? If so, he would be a skills trainer and not a coach. Is Fiz responsible for Mitch learning a 10 foot shot? I haven't seen Mitch take a 10 foot shot in two years. One would think he has a trainer to work on that in the off season. Are we to give Fiz the credit for guys like Dotson and Frank working on their outside shots. One would think Knox has a trainer that works on a pull up game. Do agree that he has to set the tone and personality of a team and is responsible for keeping better match ups on the floor but think most fans put way too much on a coach due to frustration. And again, if guys are hitting shots at a high click, coaches look like geniuses.

Regardless, in pro sports, if you don't win you get replaced. May be 50% scapegoat but you will get replaced. A coach is also to blame if players are not responding. Obvious that Fiz is not going to last. Problem I see is that fans just don't get the fact it takes a coach a few years to develop a teams identity and is not the reason a team sucks. Specially when you look at the OBVIOUS level of talent on the roster. You would think fans would notice how 4 coaches in 5 years seems to point to another possible cause. And hate to let everyone know, with this level of talent, Pat Riley and Pop would maybe have an extra 4 wins at this juncture. Does everyone remember Larry Brown experiment and Lenny Wilkins? Possible HOF coaches that could not help bad teams either.

Great post. One thing that might be trending against Fiz, Begley pointed out that he thinks some of the guys have tuned him out. Not sure that Mike Miller or someone else on the staff gets them to tune back in.

Agree. Main reason why most coaches are fired. So called "Losing the Locker and players" When judging a coach, I always try to look at the effort level and intensity of the team. Think our effort on the defensive side has been pretty good all year. On offense I look at how many open shots an offense is able to produce. Think that this has been pretty good as well. Do feel there is lots of Isolation but once again, this is the NBA. If you look at many of the close games we have lost, it has come down to turnovers down the stretch, missed open shots and even worse bad foul shooting. Things I don't think you can put on the coach. But again, if he is losing player support, there is only one ending. Fans also need to look at what kind of direction he is getting from the FO. It seems to me, the FO is clearly pushing the narrative of winning with the FA's just added. So cant really get mad at him for not playing the younger players.

Fiz's decision making has been part of the reason why we suck. The dude started Kevin Knox at two with Trier and Dot available! That doesn't look like questionable decision making to you. How many times have Randle put in situations we know he's going to fail in? The fans know it. Fiz can't figure out after a few games? How many times have we seen the team go through offensive funks only to see one of our best offensive sparks languishing on the bench? I forget, which game, but there was time late in the fourth quarter where we needed a key defensive stop and refused to sub Frank in. Don't you think that would be the ideal time to use your best perimeter defender? It's not just the players. The dude has the smell if a bad coach.

Agree that most what was mentioned could be criticized. So if Trier or Dot started, and they played badly would it be seen as a bad coaching move? And again, if Knox plays well than its a great move. Keep in mind, Knox not Dot or Trier were starters most of the year last year. How much of Randle putting himself in bad positions is on Randle? Was there not another game in which Frank was on Walker when he hit a winning shot anyway.

Look, the point is not to defend Fiz for some of the things he has done. Or claim he is the man for the job. I wanted other coaches besides him as well. Also agree that some of what you mentioned could have been coached differently. But I am sure that we can analyze any game and any coach and come up with questionable decisions for every game ever played. My point is that just like you can't truly judge a kid like Frank after one year on a lousy team. You can't judge a coach after one year with a lousy roster. This city is the king of impatience. We have gone through 4 coaches in 5 years. For anyone to expect a coach to come in here and turn this around within one year is just not realistic. If fans really need to blame someone for the current situation and losing, how bout they start with the guy in the FO that has been in control since 2013.

I agree we should give him until All Star break. You could even convince me to give him the whole year. But the dude has not been impressive and he should be gone if this team doesn't improve. If Randle isn't following the game plan, then you give extended minutes on the bench. The coach has that power. Mismatched roster or not, we're still more talented than we were last year. I'm not high on Mills, but he really hasn't been in control since 2013. He was never the GM for more than a season. I agree that he and Perry are on thin ice, and they should go to if things continue.

For anyone to expect a coach to come in here and turn this around within one year is just not realistic.

I agree we should give him until All Star break.

LMFAO!!!!

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:an "improved" Knox doesn't mean a good player, lol

And if the career player you are referring to is Randle, keep in mind of the players he was playing with as well. The game is different when teams aren't necessarily planning their defense around you.

but to the question, I voted no. I am really surprised at how high expectations were for this team. I am disappointed at our current record but only because I felt we lost some games in the fourth, that we could have won but that's on FO for not being able to bring in star players.

The point is that we have much better players this year than we did the past couple of years and we are on pace to win maybe 2/3 more games than last years record. It’s flat out unacceptable you me. I knew we were going to have a losing record but the talent level at the bare minimum should have us winning 29 games. This team was better than Horneceks team and he was fired for only winning 29.

When do you start to blame the players? Think everyone is falsely under the impression the NBA is like a HS squad and the coach is responsible to teach guys a system and how to play. Or like a NCAA type system in which everyone is equal. Fact is the NBA is a players league in which you run the same basic sets. If the players don't make buckets then they don't win. Coach calls a few set plays and in bounds but really only effects a game by the players he decides to play. In fairness to Fiz, that is also decided by the FO and the direction they want him to go. It's obvious the FO/Dolan wants to give these FA's most of the run and try to win. Would rather the young kids go but to blame the coach is a bit naive.

But that is part of the coach's job Hofstra. Heck, Fiz listed that as one of his goals when he took the job. I agree, the players need to step up. But I'm not confident we have a coach to put them in the best position to get them there. I know Pop isn't walking through that door, but neither is LeBron. Fix needs to do a better job of adjusting to his personnel.

What do you both suggest he do differently? Add some more PnR's? RnR type movement? If you look at all the coaches we have had since 2001. what more complex systems did they run? Did not fans complain about those as well? We have not had a winning team since 2001. Other then Woodson with Melo. And you know what most thought about those offensive schemes.

In terms of improving a players game, is that really an NBA coaches responsibility? I hear this a lot on the boards. I mean if Mitch keeps fouling 3pt shooters and not able to set proper picks, does the Head coach work on that in practices? If so, he would be a skills trainer and not a coach. Is Fiz responsible for Mitch learning a 10 foot shot? I haven't seen Mitch take a 10 foot shot in two years. One would think he has a trainer to work on that in the off season. Are we to give Fiz the credit for guys like Dotson and Frank working on their outside shots. One would think Knox has a trainer that works on a pull up game. Do agree that he has to set the tone and personality of a team and is responsible for keeping better match ups on the floor but think most fans put way too much on a coach due to frustration. And again, if guys are hitting shots at a high click, coaches look like geniuses.

Regardless, in pro sports, if you don't win you get replaced. May be 50% scapegoat but you will get replaced. A coach is also to blame if players are not responding. Obvious that Fiz is not going to last. Problem I see is that fans just don't get the fact it takes a coach a few years to develop a teams identity and is not the reason a team sucks. Specially when you look at the OBVIOUS level of talent on the roster. You would think fans would notice how 4 coaches in 5 years seems to point to another possible cause. And hate to let everyone know, with this level of talent, Pat Riley and Pop would maybe have an extra 4 wins at this juncture. Does everyone remember Larry Brown experiment and Lenny Wilkins? Possible HOF coaches that could not help bad teams either.

Great post. One thing that might be trending against Fiz, Begley pointed out that he thinks some of the guys have tuned him out. Not sure that Mike Miller or someone else on the staff gets them to tune back in.

Agree. Main reason why most coaches are fired. So called "Losing the Locker and players" When judging a coach, I always try to look at the effort level and intensity of the team. Think our effort on the defensive side has been pretty good all year. On offense I look at how many open shots an offense is able to produce. Think that this has been pretty good as well. Do feel there is lots of Isolation but once again, this is the NBA. If you look at many of the close games we have lost, it has come down to turnovers down the stretch, missed open shots and even worse bad foul shooting. Things I don't think you can put on the coach. But again, if he is losing player support, there is only one ending. Fans also need to look at what kind of direction he is getting from the FO. It seems to me, the FO is clearly pushing the narrative of winning with the FA's just added. So cant really get mad at him for not playing the younger players.

Fiz's decision making has been part of the reason why we suck. The dude started Kevin Knox at two with Trier and Dot available! That doesn't look like questionable decision making to you? How many times have Randle put in situations we know he's going to fail in? The fans know it. Fiz can't figure out after a few games? How many times have we seen the team go through offensive funks only to see one of our best offensive sparks languishing on the bench? I forget, which game, but there was time late in the fourth quarter where we needed a key defensive stop and refused to sub Frank in. Don't you think that would be the ideal time to use your best perimeter defender? It's not just the players. The dude has the smell if a bad coach.

Player assessment and rotation is definitely not a strong point for Fizdale. The players won’t say anything but don’t think they don’t notice this. After a while players are gonna be like wtf is doing now.