Knicks · The Morris Conundrum (page 2)

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:Winning games requires continuity.Keep Morris under all circumstances.

It’s really that simple. You just can’t keep flipping the entire roster over and expect us to start winning eventually. At some point you have to keep guys who fit and build some continuity in order to start winning.

With good fortune next year we could have:

Cole Anthony
RJ Barrett
Morris
Morris(brother)
Biyombo

Payton/Frank
Bullock/Trier
Knox
Randle
Mitch

OR even better:

VanFleet(25mm)
Edwards
RJ Barrett
Morris(19m/1 year)
Biyombo(11mm/2 year)

Payton/Frank
Bullock/Trier
Knox
Randle
Mitch

(dump dotson, DSJ, gibson, and portis)

TPercy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:Winning games requires continuity.Keep Morris under all circumstances.

It’s really that simple. You just can’t keep flipping the entire roster over and expect us to start winning eventually. At some point you have to keep guys who fit and build some continuity in order to start winning.

With good fortune next year we could have:

Cole Anthony
RJ Barrett
Morris
Morris(brother)
Biyombo

Payton/Frank
Bullock/Trier
Knox
Randle
Mitch

OR even better:

VanFleet(25mm)
Edwards
RJ Barrett
Morris(19m/1 year)
Biyombo(11mm/2 year)

Payton/Frank
Bullock/Trier
Knox
Randle
Mitch

(dump dotson, DSJ, gibson, and portis)

Yeah if we don’t draft a PG I’m making a push toward VanVleet.

Our front court next season should be Robinson Morris and Barrett

Our backcourt should be either VanVleet and Edwards or Anthony/Mannion at PG with Bogdanovic or Beasley at SG.

knicks1248 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:Conundrum? There is nothing about this team that's worth keeping it together. Anyone that signed as a free agent over the summer should be auctioned off. Good teams treat the draft like lotto tickets - you are not going to win most of them but when you do... we need as many lotto tickets as possible

The question wasn't about keeping the team together, it was about keeping certain guys on the roster who can continue to help us get back on track.

Nobody we signed has any real value anyway, plus we overpaid for them big time.

Do you want a front office on the brink of being replace in the coming wks or months, making trades? I mean that's a real tricky situation

I think the definition of holding a team together is resigning your players when they could potentially walk. Sorry, I don't care if Morris 'is built for NY' or whatever when the team doesn't perform and flat out sucks

SupremeCommander wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:Conundrum? There is nothing about this team that's worth keeping it together. Anyone that signed as a free agent over the summer should be auctioned off. Good teams treat the draft like lotto tickets - you are not going to win most of them but when you do... we need as many lotto tickets as possible

The question wasn't about keeping the team together, it was about keeping certain guys on the roster who can continue to help us get back on track.

Nobody we signed has any real value anyway, plus we overpaid for them big time.

Do you want a front office on the brink of being replace in the coming wks or months, making trades? I mean that's a real tricky situation

I think the definition of holding a team together is resigning your players when they could potentially walk. Sorry, I don't care if Morris 'is built for NY' or whatever when the team doesn't perform and flat out sucks

Good teams don't worry about the lottery, they know it's a 2% chance of getting a game changer, even less in the 2nd rnd.

By the time any of the young players we have become a consistent threat, they will more than likely be on another team.

knicks1248 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:Conundrum? There is nothing about this team that's worth keeping it together. Anyone that signed as a free agent over the summer should be auctioned off. Good teams treat the draft like lotto tickets - you are not going to win most of them but when you do... we need as many lotto tickets as possible

The question wasn't about keeping the team together, it was about keeping certain guys on the roster who can continue to help us get back on track.

Nobody we signed has any real value anyway, plus we overpaid for them big time.

Do you want a front office on the brink of being replace in the coming wks or months, making trades? I mean that's a real tricky situation

I think the definition of holding a team together is resigning your players when they could potentially walk. Sorry, I don't care if Morris 'is built for NY' or whatever when the team doesn't perform and flat out sucks

Good teams don't worry about the lottery, they know it's a 2% chance of getting a game changer, even less in the 2nd rnd.

By the time any of the young players we have become a consistent threat, they will more than likely be on another team.

he's an expert on what good teams worry about

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:Conundrum? There is nothing about this team that's worth keeping it together. Anyone that signed as a free agent over the summer should be auctioned off. Good teams treat the draft like lotto tickets - you are not going to win most of them but when you do... we need as many lotto tickets as possible

The question wasn't about keeping the team together, it was about keeping certain guys on the roster who can continue to help us get back on track.

Nobody we signed has any real value anyway, plus we overpaid for them big time.

Do you want a front office on the brink of being replace in the coming wks or months, making trades? I mean that's a real tricky situation

I think the definition of holding a team together is resigning your players when they could potentially walk. Sorry, I don't care if Morris 'is built for NY' or whatever when the team doesn't perform and flat out sucks

Good teams don't worry about the lottery, they know it's a 2% chance of getting a game changer, even less in the 2nd rnd.

By the time any of the young players we have become a consistent threat, they will more than likely be on another team.

he's an expert on what good teams worry about

pfffffffffffft who knew you two would start playing footsie - kinda cute

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Chandler wrote:I can imagine a good team offering a late first rounder for him. Some of those good teams are out of assets at the moment, but what about the Bucks or Raptors? Miami could offer a player

I can also imagine him staying with the Knicks.

We want to keep ALL above average players that actually wants to play for NY. Morris has been our best signing. He is capable of being the best player on the court in most games. He is also our best 3pt shooter. If he wants to stay and we can get him for 15M a year, I would sign him to a 3 year deal. If anything, that will make it easier for many teams to give up a first rounder for him. Since he is expiring, do not see anyone giving up a first rounder for him. Unless they are a desperate must win team this year. In which case, the pick will turn out to be a lower pick.

Randle is the guy I would try to trade for a first. Think he is a tough scorer down low but not much else to help a rebuilding team trying to develop a winning culture. We can also trade our expiring contracts to teams looking to improve cap flexibility next year. December 15th will be interesting.

You also have to take back damn near 20 mill in contracts in any Randle trade, so i would look at trying to get a 2 for one deal with randle(sg/pg) and perhaps a swap in picks..

But i'll ask again, do you want MILLS to be the one make that trade?

Perry is the GM. I don't want neither to make any "Hail Mary" type of trades. Dolan might not be able to ascertain what would construe such a trade but I would imagine the league has an executive on hand to evaluate what the owner wants to do and offer assistance. In other words, if Dolan has determined he does not his execs to bet the house to save their jobs the league can help him. Ultimately its on Dolan to approve deals.
Nalod "imagines logic". Go figure.

Anyone is traceable. I like Morris and would have no problem keeping him. But if the deal is good enough, than you do it. If it's two second rounders, I probably punt on the deal. A protected first probably gets it done for me if it's not 5-10 years down the line. Just got to be honest with the man and not be sneaky like Morey.

SupremeCommander wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:Conundrum? There is nothing about this team that's worth keeping it together. Anyone that signed as a free agent over the summer should be auctioned off. Good teams treat the draft like lotto tickets - you are not going to win most of them but when you do... we need as many lotto tickets as possible

The question wasn't about keeping the team together, it was about keeping certain guys on the roster who can continue to help us get back on track.

Nobody we signed has any real value anyway, plus we overpaid for them big time.

Do you want a front office on the brink of being replace in the coming wks or months, making trades? I mean that's a real tricky situation

I think the definition of holding a team together is resigning your players when they could potentially walk. Sorry, I don't care if Morris 'is built for NY' or whatever when the team doesn't perform and flat out sucks

Just because the team sucks, it doesn’t mean some guys on the roster can’t be part of the solution.

BigDaddyG wrote:Anyone is traceable. I like Morris and would have no problem keeping him. But if the deal is good enough, than you do it. If it's two second rounders, I probably punt on the deal. A protected first probably gets it done for me if it's not 5-10 years down the line. Just got to be honest with the man and not be sneaky like Morey.

This. The Knicks have until February. If the right deal is there you make it.

Nalod wrote:I like Morris as a role player, perhaps a 3rd option. He is shooting very well of late. I put him in the Timmy category. Not a leading player.

He is a lot better tha Hardaway jr

In the Knicks past 3 off-seasons of signing FA (Mills) how many had a KEEPER performance?
Gibson and Morris 25 game performance are keepers for this season and next season.
The Knicks Mills/Perry should have given veteran starter-center DeAndre Jordan a 2 to 3 yr extension before last season ended. Morris Gibson and DJ veteran experience would've set a much better team-ball atmosphere for the Knicks young-core players for 2 or more seasons.

What NBA team GM are gonna give our gullible-clueless Mills/Perry a equal trade ???

Its the time of year when the NY MSM geniuses suggest that *most* of our players are worthless or untradable and THEREFORE the Knicks should trade away productive player swho actually love playing in the city and who have curated a fan base all their own.

Okay, let's talk about Morris. All of the suggested trade proposals seem to suggest we trade Morris for a warm body and a lottery ticket.

Given that we already have quite a few kids on the roster already and a pipeline full of coming picks, I have just one question.

How does this help build a winning team? Are we expected to spend year after year starting at square one in breaking in a rookie who will eternally be 2 - 4 years away?

Now there are conflicting theories and I agree one of them is the old Clippers model of perpetual tanking.

How about we try the other model, this time. Hold on to those who are showing success, prune those who aren't succeeding and take chances on new blood who may just need NY as much as NY needs them.

fwk00 wrote:
Given that we already have quite a few kids on the roster already and a pipeline full of coming picks, I have just one question.

How does this help build a winning team?

I voted keep Morris. But i totally understand the logic that says trade him for future asset(s). That's why i labeled it a conundrum. It's a difficult decision. You hoard enough assets to make a trade with to answer your question of how a Morris trade for future compensation helps build a winning team. It's about stockpiling picks to use in further trades.

But when you find a guy who thrives here and if he is willing to take a Julius Randle type deal, i'd keep him try to sign him even if it means a risk losing him.

Chris Paul's name has been mentioned as a possible addition given his HOF cred and the hope his knowledge would spread thru the team.
If that is he is not a the salty SOB he can be. What might be lost is just how incredible his contract is and why OKC got so much in the PG trade to take it on:

After polling executives, the league-wide sense is that Paul will remain with the Thunder this season simply because of his enormous contract. While it’s theoretically possible that Paul could agree to turn down his $44 million player option for 2021-22 to grease the wheels on a potential trade, right now, that is the longest of long shots. Besides overcoming the idea of giving up 44 million buckaroos, Paul is also the president of the players’ union and it would be a bad look to set that precedent of turning down that amount of money to make it more palatable to a team. – via Tom Haberstroh @ NBC Sports

After this year he is owned $41,000,000 and then another $44,000,000.

We should have traded for CP3 when the Rockets started crying in the offseason, and we were under the cap.

"I'm aware of that," Morris said. "It's part of the game, but like I said in the beginning, I love being in New York, win, lose or draw. I'm here to try and help turn this thing around. I'm not really looking to get traded, that's just my personal opinion."

Morris scored a game-high 36 points in the win, shooting 5-for-9 from three and grabbing 10 rebounds in 36 minutes. Morris is now shooting a career-high 48.9 percent from three this season in 23 games, something that definitely increases his trade value.

"That's my approach, but this is the NBA," Morris said. "I'd rather help turn this thing around. Melo (Carmelo Anthony) said it best: Some guys aren't built for New York. I'm built for New York. I'd rather be here. I'd rather help."

SupremeCommander wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:Conundrum? There is nothing about this team that's worth keeping it together. Anyone that signed as a free agent over the summer should be auctioned off. Good teams treat the draft like lotto tickets - you are not going to win most of them but when you do... we need as many lotto tickets as possible

The question wasn't about keeping the team together, it was about keeping certain guys on the roster who can continue to help us get back on track.

Nobody we signed has any real value anyway, plus we overpaid for them big time.

Do you want a front office on the brink of being replace in the coming wks or months, making trades? I mean that's a real tricky situation

I think the definition of holding a team together is resigning your players when they could potentially walk. Sorry, I don't care if Morris 'is built for NY' or whatever when the team doesn't perform and flat out sucks

You sound frustrated and you have every reason to be but I think you're looking at it the wrong way.

You keep a player like Morris and Gibson...I'm not opposed to keeping Portis as well. They don't work now because we don't have the glue players that can make it work. We all HOPED that, in some capacity, that player would have been Randle but clearly, its not.

I hope the Knicks keep Morris. Morris had a chance to go to the Spurs for a chance to actually compete and play in a tax free state. He chose NY. I think that says something about his makeup and how he feels about the team and its future