Knicks · If I’m Perry I’m not looking at contenders to trade Morris to (page 2)

knicks1248 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

If I’m Perry I’m not looking at contenders to trade Morris to

Perry has been part of 13 straight losing campaigns, do you really think he knows what he's doing.

After fumbling the melo and the KP trades, and blowing through 74 million dollars you still want perry to make moves for you..OOOKAY

that's a bit like saying Michael Jordan at age 25 and 5 seasons owned a .500 record and was never going to amount to anything.

I disagree about the Melo and KP trades. You have to grade them on what was available at the time.

Melo was a phenomenal trade. We got something (Robinson) for basically nothing.

And KP - while DSjr looks like complete garbage right now, he did not at the time. We still have 2 first rounders, and we cleared cap that eventually turned into a mix bag of Morris, Randle & some other players that probably don't stick.

And without that trade, who knows - maybe we lose KP for nothing - then how would that look?

Give Perry a chance - that is what has crippled NY and their efforts to rebuild.

When was the last time you seen perry conduct an interview about the state of the knicks by himself....how about NEVER.

Did you really compare MJ situation to perry...Perry has been a bad exec for over a decade and he's here for the Money and Title.

The Kings hired him to be assistant VP of basketball operations..basically he's George Costanza working for the yankees..

Melo a Phenomenal deal????wtf You got a second round pick for a HOF..

You just switched you hate target from Fiz who is gone and Mills who is and always was irrelevant.
If you want to harm yourself (which the hate does) it's your choice.
Melo was a star MSG sits selling machine and revenue generator. That's about it.
We win nothing with him. So he is a loser by association. Same with KP.
Perry is the best thing we have because he does nothing when nothing needs to be done.

He has no plan, what they did this offseason was an absolute disgrace. 70MM the first day of free agency to produce 5 wins?

No assets or picks to shoe for it.

If you’re going to overpay a power forward three times, why not overpay Rubio on a two year deal. You need someone that makes people better. I think we would all enjoy watching the following

Rubio, RJ, Knox, Mitch frank and let them all develop instead of trying to find months for Gibson snd Portis. Hell you could have ran Melo out there at the 4 and maintained your cap for assets.

You have to have zero confidence in this group after the KP trade and the offseason. There isn’t any moves we can make to balance out the roster and allow the young guys to develop.

Untouchables
RJ
Mitch
Frank

Everyone else for the right price can go.... very important right price. Not necessarily picks

Knicks nuggets

Morris for porter Jr and grant

Morris might come back to the knicks in to off season
Putting our SF situation on lock with MPJR and Morris

MS wrote:He did this with the Kings, overpaying Vince Carter, George Hill and Randolph.

He has no plan, what they did this offseason was an absolute disgrace. 70MM the first day of free agency to produce 5 wins?

No assets or picks to shoe for it.

If you’re going to overpay a power forward three times, why not overpay Rubio on a two year deal. You need someone that makes people better. I think we would all enjoy watching the following

Rubio, RJ, Knox, Mitch frank and let them all develop instead of trying to find months for Gibson snd Portis. Hell you could have ran Melo out there at the 4 and maintained your cap for assets.

You have to have zero confidence in this group after the KP trade and the offseason. There isn’t any moves we can make to balance out the roster and allow the young guys to develop.

I completely agree about Rubio, although i think we now have to give Payton a chance to be that guy. Not to say he's the answer. He's a stopgap just like Rubio would have been, but seems to make a big difference. Our answer is eventually drafting the right PG. But in the meantime, Payton seems to have the ability to impact this team in the same positive way as Rubio could hypothetically do. But the awkwardness of the roster lies with our 2 leading scorers (randle and Morris) fighting for touches, both being best at PF, and relegating guys like Barrett and Knox to no-man's land. I watch Barrett trying to figure out how to become involved and not really sure what to do when Morris or Randle have the ball in the high post. Morris being the better shooter is ideal as a stretch 4 and occasional isolation scorer. His focus should be spotting up in the flow of the offense. If the offense breaks down then he can do his Melo-thing. Randle needs to be replaced by an elite shooter so you have 2 knock down 3pt shooters surrounding Payton, Barrett, and Robinson. It's such simple roster building.

fitzfarm wrote:I think you have to consider anything that will improve this team.

Untouchables
RJ
Mitch
Frank

Everyone else for the right price can go.... very important right price. Not necessarily picks

Knicks nuggets

Morris for porter Jr and grant

Morris might come back to the knicks in to off season
Putting our SF situation on lock with MPJR and Morris

Why is Frank untouchable? At best he's a solid backup PG.

Allanfan20 wrote:

Nalod wrote:He is a Unrestricted free agent and team has to be committed to resigning him with little risk of him walking.
He reneges on verbal deals. He is a role player, not an allstar.
If exams are competing for him that sets the market. Many of the teams owns picks by the top teams.

Yeah, I keep forgetting that he is a free agent this Summer. No fringe team is going to give up assets for a first round exit and a lost FA. It’s going to have to either be us keeping him or giving him for a late first rounder and/or an ok young player.

We can always wait until after the season and do a sign-and-trade if Morris is willing to work with us. This makes sure we receive compensation and the team that gets Morris knows they have him for a set period and its a team Morris wants to go to. Win Win Win.

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Just keep him. He’s been our best shooter, best scorer, one of our best defenders, and emotional leader. All while playing out of position. Move Randle and play him at the 4 and we become a much better team.

They don't even realize we have been doing that stupid sht for 6 ys, and it's amount to 6, 50+ loss seasons, and haven't drafted a game changer yet

Trade away the best players, and start all over next season, and round and round we go, that's the mills way.

How about keep your best players and add better complimentary players

No, because he's a complimentary player.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Just keep him. He’s been our best shooter, best scorer, one of our best defenders, and emotional leader. All while playing out of position. Move Randle and play him at the 4 and we become a much better team.

They don't even realize we have been doing that stupid sht for 6 ys, and it's amount to 6, 50+ loss seasons, and haven't drafted a game changer yet

Trade away the best players, and start all over next season, and round and round we go, that's the mills way.

How about keep your best players and add better complimentary players

No, because he's a complimentary player.

So after 6 yrs of doing that, you think were on to something? lmao

knicks1248 wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Just keep him. He’s been our best shooter, best scorer, one of our best defenders, and emotional leader. All while playing out of position. Move Randle and play him at the 4 and we become a much better team.

They don't even realize we have been doing that stupid sht for 6 ys, and it's amount to 6, 50+ loss seasons, and haven't drafted a game changer yet

Trade away the best players, and start all over next season, and round and round we go, that's the mills way.

How about keep your best players and add better complimentary players

No, because he's a complimentary player.

So the you think the best way to get better is to trade away your best players for trash, then take the 2% odds of landing a star in the draft, be bad again, add some more role player FA, trade them by dec 15,
and repeat the process.

So after 6 yrs of doing that, you think were on to something? lmao

Show me where you derived at 2% on landing a star in the draft. With a top 5 pick, that % is way higher.

I have no interest in having a role player as our best player.

With a 6-21 record with Morris as your best player, you think we're on to something?

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Just keep him. He’s been our best shooter, best scorer, one of our best defenders, and emotional leader. All while playing out of position. Move Randle and play him at the 4 and we become a much better team.

They don't even realize we have been doing that stupid sht for 6 ys, and it's amount to 6, 50+ loss seasons, and haven't drafted a game changer yet

Trade away the best players, and start all over next season, and round and round we go, that's the mills way.

How about keep your best players and add better complimentary players

No, because he's a complimentary player.

So the you think the best way to get better is to trade away your best players for trash, then take the 2% odds of landing a star in the draft, be bad again, add some more role player FA, trade them by dec 15,
and repeat the process.

So after 6 yrs of doing that, you think were on to something? lmao

Show me where you derived at 2% on landing a star in the draft. With a top 5 pick, that % is way higher.

I have no interest in having a role player as our best player.

With a 6-21 record with Morris as your best player, you think we're on to something?

He just wants change for changes sake. Like how the FO went into last offseason. "ehhhh I know we're trying to rebuild and do it the right way, but, eh, on second thought let's sign a bunch of old dudes to one year contracts"

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Just keep him. He’s been our best shooter, best scorer, one of our best defenders, and emotional leader. All while playing out of position. Move Randle and play him at the 4 and we become a much better team.

They don't even realize we have been doing that stupid sht for 6 ys, and it's amount to 6, 50+ loss seasons, and haven't drafted a game changer yet

Trade away the best players, and start all over next season, and round and round we go, that's the mills way.

How about keep your best players and add better complimentary players

No, because he's a complimentary player.

So the you think the best way to get better is to trade away your best players for trash, then take the 2% odds of landing a star in the draft, be bad again, add some more role player FA, trade them by dec 15,
and repeat the process.

So after 6 yrs of doing that, you think were on to something? lmao

Show me where you derived at 2% on landing a star in the draft. With a top 5 pick, that % is way higher.

I have no interest in having a role player as our best player.

With a 6-21 record with Morris as your best player, you think we're on to something?

The goal isn't to have him as our best player. He's a good starter though. We need good starters. The point was, why trade him for a late first round draft pick that has a very low chance of yielding a quality starter like Morris? Right now you have 1 very good starter and 2 players (Mitch and RJ) with the chance to become very good starters in the next year or 2. How about building ontop of that?

Knixkik wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Just keep him. He’s been our best shooter, best scorer, one of our best defenders, and emotional leader. All while playing out of position. Move Randle and play him at the 4 and we become a much better team.

They don't even realize we have been doing that stupid sht for 6 ys, and it's amount to 6, 50+ loss seasons, and haven't drafted a game changer yet

Trade away the best players, and start all over next season, and round and round we go, that's the mills way.

How about keep your best players and add better complimentary players

No, because he's a complimentary player.

So the you think the best way to get better is to trade away your best players for trash, then take the 2% odds of landing a star in the draft, be bad again, add some more role player FA, trade them by dec 15,
and repeat the process.

So after 6 yrs of doing that, you think were on to something? lmao

Show me where you derived at 2% on landing a star in the draft. With a top 5 pick, that % is way higher.

I have no interest in having a role player as our best player.

With a 6-21 record with Morris as your best player, you think we're on to something?

The goal isn't to have him as our best player. He's a good starter though. We need good starters. The point was, why trade him for a late first round draft pick that has a very low chance of yielding a quality starter like Morris? Right now you have 1 very good starter and 2 players (Mitch and RJ) with the chance to become very good starters in the next year or 2. How about building ontop of that?

You didn't really consider all points though too, right?

There is another reality of Morris walking away for nothing. Or more: What if the trade is for a player and a pick?

SupremeCommander wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Just keep him. He’s been our best shooter, best scorer, one of our best defenders, and emotional leader. All while playing out of position. Move Randle and play him at the 4 and we become a much better team.

They don't even realize we have been doing that stupid sht for 6 ys, and it's amount to 6, 50+ loss seasons, and haven't drafted a game changer yet

Trade away the best players, and start all over next season, and round and round we go, that's the mills way.

How about keep your best players and add better complimentary players

No, because he's a complimentary player.

So the you think the best way to get better is to trade away your best players for trash, then take the 2% odds of landing a star in the draft, be bad again, add some more role player FA, trade them by dec 15,
and repeat the process.

So after 6 yrs of doing that, you think were on to something? lmao

Show me where you derived at 2% on landing a star in the draft. With a top 5 pick, that % is way higher.

I have no interest in having a role player as our best player.

With a 6-21 record with Morris as your best player, you think we're on to something?

He just wants change for changes sake. Like how the FO went into last offseason. "ehhhh I know we're trying to rebuild and do it the right way, but, eh, on second thought let's sign a bunch of old dudes to one year contracts"

I don't have a problem with that strategy...just our coach wasn't up for the job and Morris became available. I think a Bullock/ Randle would've made sense, provided that Randle isn't playing LeBron.

Knixkik wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Just keep him. He’s been our best shooter, best scorer, one of our best defenders, and emotional leader. All while playing out of position. Move Randle and play him at the 4 and we become a much better team.

They don't even realize we have been doing that stupid sht for 6 ys, and it's amount to 6, 50+ loss seasons, and haven't drafted a game changer yet

Trade away the best players, and start all over next season, and round and round we go, that's the mills way.

How about keep your best players and add better complimentary players

No, because he's a complimentary player.

So the you think the best way to get better is to trade away your best players for trash, then take the 2% odds of landing a star in the draft, be bad again, add some more role player FA, trade them by dec 15,
and repeat the process.

So after 6 yrs of doing that, you think were on to something? lmao

Show me where you derived at 2% on landing a star in the draft. With a top 5 pick, that % is way higher.

I have no interest in having a role player as our best player.

With a 6-21 record with Morris as your best player, you think we're on to something?

The goal isn't to have him as our best player. He's a good starter though. We need good starters. The point was, why trade him for a late first round draft pick that has a very low chance of yielding a quality starter like Morris? Right now you have 1 very good starter and 2 players (Mitch and RJ) with the chance to become very good starters in the next year or 2. How about building ontop of that?

This is precisely correct.

I rarely find the rainman's arguments compelling but he's correct and this dovetails into another thread "Why trade Morris to a contender". Its a bit of self-flagellation to trade Morris to a team that will improve enough to diminish the value of the pick you are trading for.

Picks in the late twenties are only slightly more likely to succeed in the NBA than a second-rounder. And, yes, those chances are slim and none.

Martin makes a good point. We don't want to have him walk away either.

So the context is that the FO must resign Morris if they plan on keeping him (and it helps if he's open to a trade). And when we speak about signing him - front load that contract so that, if it ever comes to it, he becomes easier to move later with a handshake agreement that if he's traded, he can discreetly pick a handful of teams.

But let's assume there's a compelling trade out there. What should it look like.

First, the Knicks should make it clear that DSJ (and/or another under-performing player) is bundled with Morris.

Second, yes we'll take a late FRP but DSJ takes the bite out of it being an empty talent.

Third, the player coming back can't be a basket case. It has to be a potential rotation player who isn't just a thinly disguised medical exception waiting to happen.

And fourth, a young player with some upside needs to be part of the return preferably a former first round lottery pick.

So, the return should be no less than a player who may not be as productive as Morris and 2 chances at a useful first round lottery pick - a future pick and a former pick (or compelling candidate) who isn't an obvious bust.

I think that's a reasonable baseline.

Knixkik wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Just keep him. He’s been our best shooter, best scorer, one of our best defenders, and emotional leader. All while playing out of position. Move Randle and play him at the 4 and we become a much better team.

They don't even realize we have been doing that stupid sht for 6 ys, and it's amount to 6, 50+ loss seasons, and haven't drafted a game changer yet

Trade away the best players, and start all over next season, and round and round we go, that's the mills way.

How about keep your best players and add better complimentary players

No, because he's a complimentary player.

So the you think the best way to get better is to trade away your best players for trash, then take the 2% odds of landing a star in the draft, be bad again, add some more role player FA, trade them by dec 15,
and repeat the process.

So after 6 yrs of doing that, you think were on to something? lmao

Show me where you derived at 2% on landing a star in the draft. With a top 5 pick, that % is way higher.

I have no interest in having a role player as our best player.

With a 6-21 record with Morris as your best player, you think we're on to something?

The goal isn't to have him as our best player. He's a good starter though. We need good starters. The point was, why trade him for a late first round draft pick that has a very low chance of yielding a quality starter like Morris? Right now you have 1 very good starter and 2 players (Mitch and RJ) with the chance to become very good starters in the next year or 2. How about building ontop of that?

2) People are looking at first round picks strictly as assets for us to use and seem to forget they're also valuable trade assets. Look at some of our draft near misses. We missed out on Steph Curry by one pick and ended up with Jordan Hill. If we were that sold on Curry perhaps we could've swapped picks with Minnesota at #6 if we had an extra first round pick to offer them. Same when we ended up with Kenny Walker instead of Chuck Person. So the late first round pick may not yield us a superstar directly, but it could help us move up in the draft to get that guy if we have someone targeted as having that potential. Not to mention, some big time players have been acquired late in the first round.

As far trading Morris to a non-contender it's a wonderful idea, but why would a non-contender be interested in a player who can walk next year?

OldFan wrote:I think on the big picture - Welpee makes the point many are overlooking; you can't count on building a future around players that are not signed for the future. There is a good chance that if we retain Morris we have NOTHING next year.

As far trading Morris to a non-contender it's a wonderful idea, but why would a non-contender be interested in a player who can walk next year?

I won't Knock Knox. He or RJ are our future wings. If Morris is our best player we won't be very good.

OldFan wrote:I think on the big picture - Welpee makes the point many are overlooking; you can't count on building a future around players that are not signed for the future. There is a good chance that if we retain Morris we have NOTHING next year.

As far trading Morris to a non-contender it's a wonderful idea, but why would a non-contender be interested in a player who can walk next year?

there's a certain amount of irony in this. Please send this comment to Perry and Mills.

Chandler wrote:

OldFan wrote:I think on the big picture - Welpee makes the point many are overlooking; you can't count on building a future around players that are not signed for the future. There is a good chance that if we retain Morris we have NOTHING next year.

As far trading Morris to a non-contender it's a wonderful idea, but why would a non-contender be interested in a player who can walk next year?

there's a certain amount of irony in this. Please send this comment to Perry and Mills.

We did not obtain him via trade.

Once you pay the player that doesn't preclude you from trading him at a later date.
Unless it's an outrageous contract you're not stuck with Morris.
He will have value (barring serious injury) for the duration of his next deal.