Knicks · The evolution of Frank (page 3)
martin wrote:JesseDark wrote:I wonder if Frank would have been any better offensively if we were running the triangle.feel like a guard without a proper handle or shot or confidence will not be good in any offense
Yeah the confidence is the biggest thing. His jumper looks decent but just doesn't go in a lot. The hesitation causes him to miss more than he should.
Sambakick wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Sambakick wrote:Chandler wrote:Wish Frank could have gotten a chance to play for Mike in Westchester. His draft express scouting report said he needed to develop in the d/g league if he was going to play point. Not sure why the Knicks didn't go there but it might have been because they didn't want to send the 8th pick to the g league.I have very mixed feelings on this. It is a constant criticism of Frank's development. Being with the Knicks (as opposed to G) one can argue you're practicing and playing against better competition, having better coaches, better nutritionists, seeing the game consistently ay an NBA level where things are faster and bigger etc. G-league gives minutes and (false?) confidence
Is Iggy Brazdeikis not getting the coaching and nutritional advice he needs just because he wears suits to Knicks games but plays in Westchester games? That's ridiculous.
Don’t think he’s saying he getting none. Saying it’s probably not on the level the NBA would provide. But all of the is speculative. The reality is that Iggy isn’t going to get mins with the big club. So him playing in Westchester makes sense as he will actually play big consistent mins.
Why isn't it on NBA level though? These guys practice with the Knicks, then take a short ride and play in Westchester. Playing G-league games would be "in-addition to" their regular NBA life where they ride the pine. There was absolutely no reason not to try to get Frank into some W-Knicks games as the primary guard the last two years. I believe there have been players play for the farm club in the afternoon and the parent team at night. It's not like you are being demoted into some alternate dimension. You're just getting more reps and experience.
No they dont
Sambakick wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Sambakick wrote:Chandler wrote:Wish Frank could have gotten a chance to play for Mike in Westchester. His draft express scouting report said he needed to develop in the d/g league if he was going to play point. Not sure why the Knicks didn't go there but it might have been because they didn't want to send the 8th pick to the g league.I have very mixed feelings on this. It is a constant criticism of Frank's development. Being with the Knicks (as opposed to G) one can argue you're practicing and playing against better competition, having better coaches, better nutritionists, seeing the game consistently ay an NBA level where things are faster and bigger etc. G-league gives minutes and (false?) confidence
Is Iggy Brazdeikis not getting the coaching and nutritional advice he needs just because he wears suits to Knicks games but plays in Westchester games? That's ridiculous.
Don’t think he’s saying he getting none. Saying it’s probably not on the level the NBA would provide. But all of the is speculative. The reality is that Iggy isn’t going to get mins with the big club. So him playing in Westchester makes sense as he will actually play big consistent mins.
Why isn't it on NBA level though? These guys practice with the Knicks, then take a short ride and play in Westchester. Playing G-league games would be "in-addition to" their regular NBA life where they ride the pine. There was absolutely no reason not to try to get Frank into some W-Knicks games as the primary guard the last two years. I believe there have been players play for the farm club in the afternoon and the parent team at night. It's not like you are being demoted into some alternate dimension. You're just getting more reps and experience.
Thinking back
Frank started his career with just he Jack and Baker as the PGs for the roster. Wasn't until they called up Burke in Jan and traded for Mudiay in Feb that G-League really made any sense his rookie yr. His 2nd season he started on the wing getting 30mins a night,which he got with a solid pre season. He got the start vs the Warriors at PG about 6 gms in and played well for 2 games. Played horrible the next 4 got demoted 3 gms later. You could say that Dec of last yr when he got demoted with Mudiay & Burke both healthy was possibly the best time frame to send him down. In Jan he basically was finished for the season.
Basically 1 month time frame where G-league made sense within his first 2 yrs.
martin wrote:Didn’t Plumlee play for the W Knicks and the Knicks on the same day?Sambakick wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Sambakick wrote:Chandler wrote:Wish Frank could have gotten a chance to play for Mike in Westchester. His draft express scouting report said he needed to develop in the d/g league if he was going to play point. Not sure why the Knicks didn't go there but it might have been because they didn't want to send the 8th pick to the g league.I have very mixed feelings on this. It is a constant criticism of Frank's development. Being with the Knicks (as opposed to G) one can argue you're practicing and playing against better competition, having better coaches, better nutritionists, seeing the game consistently ay an NBA level where things are faster and bigger etc. G-league gives minutes and (false?) confidence
Is Iggy Brazdeikis not getting the coaching and nutritional advice he needs just because he wears suits to Knicks games but plays in Westchester games? That's ridiculous.
Don’t think he’s saying he getting none. Saying it’s probably not on the level the NBA would provide. But all of the is speculative. The reality is that Iggy isn’t going to get mins with the big club. So him playing in Westchester makes sense as he will actually play big consistent mins.
Why isn't it on NBA level though? These guys practice with the Knicks, then take a short ride and play in Westchester. Playing G-league games would be "in-addition to" their regular NBA life where they ride the pine. There was absolutely no reason not to try to get Frank into some W-Knicks games as the primary guard the last two years. I believe there have been players play for the farm club in the afternoon and the parent team at night. It's not like you are being demoted into some alternate dimension. You're just getting more reps and experience.
No they dont
CrushAlot wrote:martin wrote:Didn’t Plumlee play for the W Knicks and the Knicks on the same day?Sambakick wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Sambakick wrote:Chandler wrote:Wish Frank could have gotten a chance to play for Mike in Westchester. His draft express scouting report said he needed to develop in the d/g league if he was going to play point. Not sure why the Knicks didn't go there but it might have been because they didn't want to send the 8th pick to the g league.I have very mixed feelings on this. It is a constant criticism of Frank's development. Being with the Knicks (as opposed to G) one can argue you're practicing and playing against better competition, having better coaches, better nutritionists, seeing the game consistently ay an NBA level where things are faster and bigger etc. G-league gives minutes and (false?) confidence
Is Iggy Brazdeikis not getting the coaching and nutritional advice he needs just because he wears suits to Knicks games but plays in Westchester games? That's ridiculous.
Don’t think he’s saying he getting none. Saying it’s probably not on the level the NBA would provide. But all of the is speculative. The reality is that Iggy isn’t going to get mins with the big club. So him playing in Westchester makes sense as he will actually play big consistent mins.
Why isn't it on NBA level though? These guys practice with the Knicks, then take a short ride and play in Westchester. Playing G-league games would be "in-addition to" their regular NBA life where they ride the pine. There was absolutely no reason not to try to get Frank into some W-Knicks games as the primary guard the last two years. I believe there have been players play for the farm club in the afternoon and the parent team at night. It's not like you are being demoted into some alternate dimension. You're just getting more reps and experience.
No they dont
Pretty sure it was Dotson.
Suns. 23 Minutes 1 for 7 2 pts. -10
Sixers at half. -14 in 8 minutes. 2 pts. Zero assists.
Say what you want about evolution. This is the type of games that is troubling. Evolution may be in biased eye tests of some on this forum. Stats so far say he is averaging less in assists than his first year. Basically same in points as first year. The evolution may need to take a large leap next year. Or it may be time for the eye test to catch up with reality.
HofstraBBall wrote:And ....were back...Suns. 23 Minutes 1 for 7 2 pts. -10
Sixers at half. -14 in 8 minutes. 2 pts. Zero assists.Say what you want about evolution. This is the type of games that is troubling. Evolution may be in biased eye tests of some on this forum. Stats so far say he is averaging less in assists than his first year. Basically same in points as first year. The evolution may need to take a large leap next year. Or it may be time for the eye test to catch up with reality.
Luckily evolution isn’t gauged on a game by game basis
martin wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:And ....were back...Suns. 23 Minutes 1 for 7 2 pts. -10
Sixers at half. -14 in 8 minutes. 2 pts. Zero assists.Say what you want about evolution. This is the type of games that is troubling. Evolution may be in biased eye tests of some on this forum. Stats so far say he is averaging less in assists than his first year. Basically same in points as first year. The evolution may need to take a large leap next year. Or it may be time for the eye test to catch up with reality.
Luckily evolution isn’t gauged on a game by game basis
I'm fine with Frank in his current bench capacity for the remainder of his deal. I haven't seen anything that would make me prioritize re-signing him, but he has another year and a half to improve and make his case.
martin wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:And ....were back...Suns. 23 Minutes 1 for 7 2 pts. -10
Sixers at half. -14 in 8 minutes. 2 pts. Zero assists.Say what you want about evolution. This is the type of games that is troubling. Evolution may be in biased eye tests of some on this forum. Stats so far say he is averaging less in assists than his first year. Basically same in points as first year. The evolution may need to take a large leap next year. Or it may be time for the eye test to catch up with reality.
Luckily evolution isn’t gauged on a game by game basis
True, hope that's the rule for all the yoots. However, think you missed the part of my post noting how his numbers have basically been the same for three years (Not a couple of games). My reference to last two games as a sign of limited evolution seems like a fair response to some also using a few positive games as a gauge to claim the contrary.
HofstraBBall wrote:I haven’t checked but Vorkunov was on The Bank Shot pod and said Frank is actually shooting less than he did his first two seasons. Eye test says he is more aggressive and in the paint more on offense.martin wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:And ....were back...Suns. 23 Minutes 1 for 7 2 pts. -10
Sixers at half. -14 in 8 minutes. 2 pts. Zero assists.Say what you want about evolution. This is the type of games that is troubling. Evolution may be in biased eye tests of some on this forum. Stats so far say he is averaging less in assists than his first year. Basically same in points as first year. The evolution may need to take a large leap next year. Or it may be time for the eye test to catch up with reality.
Luckily evolution isn’t gauged on a game by game basis
True, hope that's the rule for all the yoots. However, think you missed the part of my post noting how his numbers have basically been the same for three years (Not a couple of games). My reference to last two games as a sign of limited evolution seems like a fair response to some also using a few positive games as a gauge to claim the contrary.
I always root for the guy, but he’s maddening. No consistency to his game at all, almost always plays like a pussy, once in a blue moon he decides to be aggressive and scores 13 points and we get excited.
If he’s not looking to shoot at the free throw line or push the tempo towards the rim he might as well sit. Fortunately for him he’s still young and defends so teams will like always take a chance on him.
For the right price he’s fine as a backup for 15-18 minutes a night.
MS wrote:Frank sucks unfortunately (for a lottery pick).I always root for the guy, but he’s maddening. No consistency to his game at all, almost always plays like a pussy, once in a blue moon he decides to be aggressive and scores 13 points and we get excited.
If he’s not looking to shoot at the free throw line or push the tempo towards the rim he might as well sit. Fortunately for him he’s still young and defends so teams will like always take a chance on him.
For the right price he’s fine as a backup for 15-18 minutes a night.
Pay attention to when Ntilikina takes his shots. It's almost always when there's an expectation for someone to step up. He takes high pressure/high reward attempts. In the normal flow of the game he's perfectly happy to feed the other four.
He's a unique talent in many regards. Developing a slashing game along the way.
He takes high pressure/high reward attempts.
Clyde always says "There's a reason you're that open"
CrushAlot wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:I haven’t checked but Vorkunov was on The Bank Shot pod and said Frank is actually shooting less than he did his first two seasons. Eye test says he is more aggressive and in the paint more on offense.martin wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:And ....were back...Suns. 23 Minutes 1 for 7 2 pts. -10
Sixers at half. -14 in 8 minutes. 2 pts. Zero assists.Say what you want about evolution. This is the type of games that is troubling. Evolution may be in biased eye tests of some on this forum. Stats so far say he is averaging less in assists than his first year. Basically same in points as first year. The evolution may need to take a large leap next year. Or it may be time for the eye test to catch up with reality.
Luckily evolution isn’t gauged on a game by game basis
True, hope that's the rule for all the yoots. However, think you missed the part of my post noting how his numbers have basically been the same for three years (Not a couple of games). My reference to last two games as a sign of limited evolution seems like a fair response to some also using a few positive games as a gauge to claim the contrary.
Some on here will spin that to say how incredibly unselfish he has become. Lol
Don't get me wrong, think he is doing fine. Takes time and he is young. Just don't think he was worth a top 10 pick. Feel that spot is where you try to hit a home run. Frank is no home run. Grant it, when you swing for the fences you strike out a lot but still, think that is what you should do with a top 10. If not, then trade down and pick up two picks where you can pick up solid role players. However, he is a Knick and I root for all Knicks. May not seem like it sometimes but just think the narrative of some over stating his ability is to do to do with Frank and more to do about their unfair expectations at the time he was drafted.
HofstraBBall wrote:CrushAlot wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:I haven’t checked but Vorkunov was on The Bank Shot pod and said Frank is actually shooting less than he did his first two seasons. Eye test says he is more aggressive and in the paint more on offense.martin wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:And ....were back...Suns. 23 Minutes 1 for 7 2 pts. -10
Sixers at half. -14 in 8 minutes. 2 pts. Zero assists.Say what you want about evolution. This is the type of games that is troubling. Evolution may be in biased eye tests of some on this forum. Stats so far say he is averaging less in assists than his first year. Basically same in points as first year. The evolution may need to take a large leap next year. Or it may be time for the eye test to catch up with reality.
Luckily evolution isn’t gauged on a game by game basis
True, hope that's the rule for all the yoots. However, think you missed the part of my post noting how his numbers have basically been the same for three years (Not a couple of games). My reference to last two games as a sign of limited evolution seems like a fair response to some also using a few positive games as a gauge to claim the contrary.
Some on here will spin that to say how incredibly unselfish he has become. Lol
Don't get me wrong, think he is doing fine. Takes time and he is young. Just don't think he was worth a top 10 pick. Feel that spot is where you try to hit a home run. Frank is no home run. Grant it, when you swing for the fences you strike out a lot but still, think that is what you should do with a top 10. If not, then trade down and pick up two picks where you can pick up solid role players. However, he is a Knick and I root for all Knicks. May not seem like it sometimes but just think the narrative of some over stating his ability is to do to do with Frank and more to do about their unfair expectations at the time he was drafted.
Those are your unrealistic expectations. If it held true you’d get more all star type players with an eighth selection over time, and there aren’t.
Did we swing and miss? If you expected Manu? That did not happen until he was 25. We did not catch lightening. That was Donovan Mitchell. We did not strike out, but we are slapping singles with good defense. He is Didi Gregorious or Ozzie smith.......The offense takes time. He is batting .250 and without the defense you cut bait and move on. Fans like defense. We have taken to the kid.
martin wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:CrushAlot wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:I haven’t checked but Vorkunov was on The Bank Shot pod and said Frank is actually shooting less than he did his first two seasons. Eye test says he is more aggressive and in the paint more on offense.martin wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:And ....were back...Suns. 23 Minutes 1 for 7 2 pts. -10
Sixers at half. -14 in 8 minutes. 2 pts. Zero assists.Say what you want about evolution. This is the type of games that is troubling. Evolution may be in biased eye tests of some on this forum. Stats so far say he is averaging less in assists than his first year. Basically same in points as first year. The evolution may need to take a large leap next year. Or it may be time for the eye test to catch up with reality.
Luckily evolution isn’t gauged on a game by game basis
True, hope that's the rule for all the yoots. However, think you missed the part of my post noting how his numbers have basically been the same for three years (Not a couple of games). My reference to last two games as a sign of limited evolution seems like a fair response to some also using a few positive games as a gauge to claim the contrary.
Some on here will spin that to say how incredibly unselfish he has become. Lol
Don't get me wrong, think he is doing fine. Takes time and he is young. Just don't think he was worth a top 10 pick. Feel that spot is where you try to hit a home run. Frank is no home run. Grant it, when you swing for the fences you strike out a lot but still, think that is what you should do with a top 10. If not, then trade down and pick up two picks where you can pick up solid role players. However, he is a Knick and I root for all Knicks. May not seem like it sometimes but just think the narrative of some over stating his ability is to do to do with Frank and more to do about their unfair expectations at the time he was drafted.Those are your unrealistic expectations. If it held true you’d get more all star type players with an eighth selection over time, and there aren’t.
My expectation for frank was to be 10 point , 5 assist, 41 percent from field, and 35 percent from three reasonable expectation but his offensive game is bad. Nobody expected frank to be a 20 point scorer that wasn't ever going to happen but the expectation for to be at least average player not below average player. Don't get me wrong frank is a good defensive guard but bad offensive guard.
Dress up the pig in makeup anyway you'd like, but it's a 1st round bust either way.
martin wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:CrushAlot wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:I haven’t checked but Vorkunov was on The Bank Shot pod and said Frank is actually shooting less than he did his first two seasons. Eye test says he is more aggressive and in the paint more on offense.martin wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:And ....were back...Suns. 23 Minutes 1 for 7 2 pts. -10
Sixers at half. -14 in 8 minutes. 2 pts. Zero assists.Say what you want about evolution. This is the type of games that is troubling. Evolution may be in biased eye tests of some on this forum. Stats so far say he is averaging less in assists than his first year. Basically same in points as first year. The evolution may need to take a large leap next year. Or it may be time for the eye test to catch up with reality.
Luckily evolution isn’t gauged on a game by game basis
True, hope that's the rule for all the yoots. However, think you missed the part of my post noting how his numbers have basically been the same for three years (Not a couple of games). My reference to last two games as a sign of limited evolution seems like a fair response to some also using a few positive games as a gauge to claim the contrary.
Some on here will spin that to say how incredibly unselfish he has become. Lol
Don't get me wrong, think he is doing fine. Takes time and he is young. Just don't think he was worth a top 10 pick. Feel that spot is where you try to hit a home run. Frank is no home run. Grant it, when you swing for the fences you strike out a lot but still, think that is what you should do with a top 10. If not, then trade down and pick up two picks where you can pick up solid role players. However, he is a Knick and I root for all Knicks. May not seem like it sometimes but just think the narrative of some over stating his ability is to do to do with Frank and more to do about their unfair expectations at the time he was drafted.Those are your unrealistic expectations. If it held true you’d get more all star type players with an eighth selection over time, and there aren’t.
I had NO expectations for Frank. Saw him as a role guy. Biggest reason why I opposed the pick. Nor do I believe you can count on the draft as a high probability to get a star at any position. Chances of hitting in the draft is the same as hitting on the lottery on Wednesdays. Still, if your gonna play the lottery why not play the one with the $300 million dollar jackpot. Not the $100K one. Specially at the 8. I think draft picks are better used as assets than to realize high impact players. Unless its a top three pick, Think those are probable 10 year solid NBA guys. Anything below that is pure speculation. So why not go for a guy that can jump out of the building and has the highest ceiling. Not a guy that plays good D and is showing role player potential. If not, as stated, trade him for multiple good role players or a proven 3-5 year guy.
The ones with the expectations or hope there of, are the ones trying to justify Frank as the pick. I'm the one who is okay with where he is now and don't see the need to fluff the result. He is a Knick and is getting better everyday. He plays solid defense, plays old school fundamental ball and shares the ball. Some can keep trying to make my opinion about disliking Frank, but it's about calling out the fluff and backing my opinion that we should have tried hitting a home run or traded the pick for MORE assets. Regardless of the result.