Knixkik wrote:blkexec wrote:smackeddog wrote:Looks happy to be a Knick!
Hes a dead man walking. Just waiting to be traded.
What is he trying to accomplish by being traded? He has 2 very medicore PGs ahead of him here. Most teams have a better starting PG than Payton. This is still one of his best opportunities in the league to take over as a big contributor. Does he blame the Knicks for his horrible performance this year? Can he simply not handle this market and needs a small market? Maybe Minnesota is a better place for him but ultimately he needs to perform or he will be out of the league.
Understandable that Smith jr. isnt thrilled about discussing his minor role on the team. DSJr's career has gotten progressively worse since being drafted, cant feel good. You're right about him being in a good situation. Smith jr wont get anywhere until he embraces the competition for starting PG.
To quote the third book of Terminator "Anger is more useful than despair". Best thing for Smith IMO is to get a chip on his shoulder, and dunk on the competition.
Pretty much agree with everything Fish proposed in the original post. I had a thread before the season started that suggested we move most if not all of our 1 yr rentals at the trading deadline, for draft picks and players still on roomie deals that may need a change of scenery.
The way these vets are still eating up mins tells me that they are still pushing for the playoffs which is ridiculous! We have 11 F#@&*%# wins and going nowhere fast! I'm concerned that Dolan ain't all in a full blown rebuild
Everything Fish laid out should be the way to go, Hopefully Dolan gets out of the way@
when do we stop pulling the plug and turning the roster over every year?
I don't know what we would gain from throwing Knox, DSjr, Frank out there in big minutes roles? I think they've been exposed as maybe not that good.
Randle and Morris are both knuckleheads, but at least they are better than what Knox hopes to become.
I don't think we're one piece away from being a championship contender - but we are close to being a play off 8 spot worth team.
How do we hope for anyone to develop their talent if all we do is lose uncompetitively.
How can we hope to add anyone in FA if we're a moribund franchise that jettisons halfway decent talent?
Keep everyone. Tweak in the off season. Unless someone makes a bold offer for someone.
This summer, there is the draft and potential FA.
franco12 wrote:when do we stop pulling the plug and turning the roster over every year?I don't know what we would gain from throwing Knox, DSjr, Frank out there in big minutes roles? I think they've been exposed as maybe not that good.
Randle and Morris are both knuckleheads, but at least they are better than what Knox hopes to become.
I don't think we're one piece away from being a championship contender - but we are close to being a play off 8 spot worth team.
How do we hope for anyone to develop their talent if all we do is lose uncompetitively.
How can we hope to add anyone in FA if we're a moribund franchise that jettisons halfway decent talent?
Keep everyone. Tweak in the off season. Unless someone makes a bold offer for someone.
This summer, there is the draft and potential FA.
I think people forget that we have giving the young guys extending garbage minutes(usually starts after the all star game) the last 5 seasons and it hasn't resulted in anyone getting better the following season.
All they do is develop bad habits
franco12 wrote:when do we stop pulling the plug and turning the roster over every year?I don't know what we would gain from throwing Knox, DSjr, Frank out there in big minutes roles? I think they've been exposed as maybe not that good.
Randle and Morris are both knuckleheads, but at least they are better than what Knox hopes to become.
I don't think we're one piece away from being a championship contender - but we are close to being a play off 8 spot worth team.
How do we hope for anyone to develop their talent if all we do is lose uncompetitively.
How can we hope to add anyone in FA if we're a moribund franchise that jettisons halfway decent talent?
Keep everyone. Tweak in the off season. Unless someone makes a bold offer for someone.
This summer, there is the draft and potential FA.
At some point, we need to move past the maybe they are good enough to knowing for sure. Feels like we wasted half a year with Frank and DSJ sitting behind a fringe starter on an 11 win team. It makes no sense to that Zo, a 2nd yr player, is collecting consecutive DNPs on this team rather than allow him to develop. Instead, we got journeyman soaking up all the mins when they are not a part of the future.
Hopefully after the trade deadline, we move most of these dudes and let the young players get most of the mins. If they fall flat on their face, so be it. At least there are no more maybes or its and the plan will more clear moving forward
Uptown wrote:franco12 wrote:when do we stop pulling the plug and turning the roster over every year?I don't know what we would gain from throwing Knox, DSjr, Frank out there in big minutes roles? I think they've been exposed as maybe not that good.
Randle and Morris are both knuckleheads, but at least they are better than what Knox hopes to become.
I don't think we're one piece away from being a championship contender - but we are close to being a play off 8 spot worth team.
How do we hope for anyone to develop their talent if all we do is lose uncompetitively.
How can we hope to add anyone in FA if we're a moribund franchise that jettisons halfway decent talent?
Keep everyone. Tweak in the off season. Unless someone makes a bold offer for someone.
This summer, there is the draft and potential FA.
At some point, we need to move past the maybe they are good enough to knowing for sure. Feels like we wasted half a year with Frank and DSJ sitting behind a fringe starter on an 11 win team. It makes no sense to that Zo, a 2nd yr player, is collecting consecutive DNPs on this team rather than allow him to develop. Instead, we got journeyman soaking up all the mins when they are not a part of the future.
Hopefully after the trade deadline, we move most of these dudes and let the young players get most of the mins. If they fall flat on their face, so be it. At least there are no more maybes or its and the plan will more clear moving forward
I understand the value of blending in vets with the young guys. The problem is outside of RJ, this has become a team dominated by the vets. Knox, Frank, and DSj haven't played well this year, but Mitch at least belongs in the starting lineup. What has Gibson done to deserve starting? Knicks needs to at least find the balance.
After the trade deadline we need to go full youth...
Frank, dsjr
Barrett, dot
Trier, iggy
Knox, Wooten
Mitch, Randle
Everyone else can take a seat for the tank
Randle would be a good 6th man, but it will never happen.
The lineup should be...
Frank - Payton
Dotson - Smith
RJ - Knox
Morris - Randle
Mitch - Gibson
Knixkik wrote:Uptown wrote:franco12 wrote:when do we stop pulling the plug and turning the roster over every year?I don't know what we would gain from throwing Knox, DSjr, Frank out there in big minutes roles? I think they've been exposed as maybe not that good.
Randle and Morris are both knuckleheads, but at least they are better than what Knox hopes to become.
I don't think we're one piece away from being a championship contender - but we are close to being a play off 8 spot worth team.
How do we hope for anyone to develop their talent if all we do is lose uncompetitively.
How can we hope to add anyone in FA if we're a moribund franchise that jettisons halfway decent talent?
Keep everyone. Tweak in the off season. Unless someone makes a bold offer for someone.
This summer, there is the draft and potential FA.
At some point, we need to move past the maybe they are good enough to knowing for sure. Feels like we wasted half a year with Frank and DSJ sitting behind a fringe starter on an 11 win team. It makes no sense to that Zo, a 2nd yr player, is collecting consecutive DNPs on this team rather than allow him to develop. Instead, we got journeyman soaking up all the mins when they are not a part of the future.
Hopefully after the trade deadline, we move most of these dudes and let the young players get most of the mins. If they fall flat on their face, so be it. At least there are no more maybes or its and the plan will more clear moving forward
I understand the value of blending in vets with the young guys. The problem is outside of RJ, this has become a team dominated by the vets. Knox, Frank, and DSj haven't played well this year, but Mitch at least belongs in the starting lineup. What has Gibson done to deserve starting? Knicks needs to at least find the balance.
Gibson is in the SL because Mitch had a stretch of collecting more fouls than minutes.
I do wonder about Trier.
But Knox, Trier, Robinson - in an earlier era, they'd still be in college. So some of their DNPs are not that worrying to me.
Uptown wrote:franco12 wrote:when do we stop pulling the plug and turning the roster over every year?I don't know what we would gain from throwing Knox, DSjr, Frank out there in big minutes roles? I think they've been exposed as maybe not that good.
Randle and Morris are both knuckleheads, but at least they are better than what Knox hopes to become.
I don't think we're one piece away from being a championship contender - but we are close to being a play off 8 spot worth team.
How do we hope for anyone to develop their talent if all we do is lose uncompetitively.
How can we hope to add anyone in FA if we're a moribund franchise that jettisons halfway decent talent?
Keep everyone. Tweak in the off season. Unless someone makes a bold offer for someone.
This summer, there is the draft and potential FA.
At some point, we need to move past the maybe they are good enough to knowing for sure. Feels like we wasted half a year with Frank and DSJ sitting behind a fringe starter on an 11 win team. It makes no sense to that Zo, a 2nd yr player, is collecting consecutive DNPs on this team rather than allow him to develop. Instead, we got journeyman soaking up all the mins when they are not a part of the future.
Hopefully after the trade deadline, we move most of these dudes and let the young players get most of the mins. If they fall flat on their face, so be it. At least there are no more maybes or its and the plan will more clear moving forward
DSjr has been hurt.
Frank has gone 10 games scoreless.
Zo has talent, I'd like to see him, especially when we've struggled in games to score.
steve mills has a desperate imprint on the franchise.
steve has mike playing the old dudes to give us the look and feel of a competitive roster
steve wants to make sure the agents for randle, taj, bullock, elfrid like us
steve wants to make sure dolan sees it was fiz fault (nevermind steve hired fiz, who sucks)
steve wants to show that randle was a good signing b/c he puts up points and boards the longer he's out there
perry is hellbent on proving elfrid was a good draft pick of his years ago, 2 other teams ago
steve has a plan to put his princeton mafioso bro blatt in the gm slot during off season b/c he'll convince dolan it was fiz and perry's fault and randle and morris put up stats
steve will soon blame perry for drafting knox. he's probly done this already.
anrst wrote:steve mills has a desperate imprint on the franchise. steve has mike playing the old dudes to give us the look and feel of a competitive roster
steve wants to make sure the agents for randle, taj, bullock, elfrid like us
steve wants to make sure dolan sees it was fiz fault (nevermind steve hired fiz, who sucks)
steve wants to show that randle was a good signing b/c he puts up points and boards the longer he's out there
perry is hellbent on proving elfrid was a good draft pick of his years ago, 2 other teams ago
steve has a plan to put his princeton mafioso bro blatt in the gm slot during off season b/c he'll convince dolan it was fiz and perry's fault and randle and morris put up stats
steve will soon blame perry for drafting knox. he's probly done this already.
These are some nice statements and all but what have our young players done to show that they deserve more minutes over their replacements.
For me, this past Brooklyn Nets game was a good distribution of minutes for the vets/yoots. Dot, Frank, Mitch, Knox all got between 15-20 minutes. If they played better, they get more minutes, it's an easy story to read.
I actually want to keep Randle and Marcus. I think we have to keep building continuity and as far as I'm concerned both of these players are net positives so I have no issue with them being here in a reduced capacity. That being said, I would like us to start running more targeted sets for Barrett Knox and Mitch where they'll be put in positions to be better players. As for Payton, Ellington, DSJ, and Portis, I hope we can use them to get a stop gap center or trial for an expiring.
I say keep start:
Frank/Payton
Barrett/Bullock
Knox/Ignas
Morris/Randle
Mitch/Gibson
The idea is that the starting line up is our core going forward.
Also take a year of Pauls contract and trading for him is actually a no brainer.
martin wrote:anrst wrote:steve mills has a desperate imprint on the franchise. steve has mike playing the old dudes to give us the look and feel of a competitive roster
steve wants to make sure the agents for randle, taj, bullock, elfrid like us
steve wants to make sure dolan sees it was fiz fault (nevermind steve hired fiz, who sucks)
steve wants to show that randle was a good signing b/c he puts up points and boards the longer he's out there
perry is hellbent on proving elfrid was a good draft pick of his years ago, 2 other teams ago
steve has a plan to put his princeton mafioso bro blatt in the gm slot during off season b/c he'll convince dolan it was fiz and perry's fault and randle and morris put up stats
steve will soon blame perry for drafting knox. he's probly done this already.
These are some nice statements and all but what have our young players done to show that they deserve more minutes over their replacements.
For me, this past Brooklyn Nets game was a good distribution of minutes for the vets/yoots. Dot, Frank, Mitch, Knox all got between 15-20 minutes. If they played better, they get more minutes, it's an easy story to read.
aside from morris, the vets don't really deserve their minutes either.
TPercy wrote:I actually want to keep Randle and Marcus. I think we have to keep building continuity and as far as I'm concerned both of these players are net positives so I have no issue with them being here in a reduced capacity. That being said, I would like us to start running more targeted sets for Barrett Knox and Mitch where they'll be put in positions to be better players. As for Payton, Ellington, DSJ, and Portis, I hope we can use them to get a stop gap center or trial for an expiring.
I say keep start:
Frank/Payton
Barrett/Bullock
Knox/Ignas
Morris/Randle
Mitch/Gibson
The idea is that the starting line up is our core going forward.
Also take a year of Pauls contract and trading for him is actually a no brainer.
Randle and Morris are our best players - and I too want to keep them.
The way I look at it, they would be the 3rd & 4th best players on a championship team. Our job is to find our 1 & 2.
Can RJ & Robinson grow into a 1 or 2? Maybe. It will sure help them develop if there are some good players to support them, and dumping Randle/Morris does the exact opposite.
anrst wrote:martin wrote:anrst wrote:steve mills has a desperate imprint on the franchise. steve has mike playing the old dudes to give us the look and feel of a competitive roster
steve wants to make sure the agents for randle, taj, bullock, elfrid like us
steve wants to make sure dolan sees it was fiz fault (nevermind steve hired fiz, who sucks)
steve wants to show that randle was a good signing b/c he puts up points and boards the longer he's out there
perry is hellbent on proving elfrid was a good draft pick of his years ago, 2 other teams ago
steve has a plan to put his princeton mafioso bro blatt in the gm slot during off season b/c he'll convince dolan it was fiz and perry's fault and randle and morris put up stats
steve will soon blame perry for drafting knox. he's probly done this already.
These are some nice statements and all but what have our young players done to show that they deserve more minutes over their replacements.
For me, this past Brooklyn Nets game was a good distribution of minutes for the vets/yoots. Dot, Frank, Mitch, Knox all got between 15-20 minutes. If they played better, they get more minutes, it's an easy story to read.
aside from morris, the vets don't really deserve their minutes either.
Taj has been playing excellently recently. Randle, for as much as I hate him and the TO's and no-defense, is getting you points and rebounds that non of his replacements are giving you. Thought Payton has been steady in his role and Bullocks is OK.
Unfortunately none of the bench guys are TAKING minutes away from the starters with their play.
franco12 wrote:TPercy wrote:I actually want to keep Randle and Marcus. I think we have to keep building continuity and as far as I'm concerned both of these players are net positives so I have no issue with them being here in a reduced capacity. That being said, I would like us to start running more targeted sets for Barrett Knox and Mitch where they'll be put in positions to be better players. As for Payton, Ellington, DSJ, and Portis, I hope we can use them to get a stop gap center or trial for an expiring.
I say keep start:
Frank/Payton
Barrett/Bullock
Knox/Ignas
Morris/Randle
Mitch/Gibson
The idea is that the starting line up is our core going forward.
Also take a year of Pauls contract and trading for him is actually a no brainer.
Randle and Morris are our best players - and I too want to keep them.
The way I look at it, they would be the 3rd & 4th best players on a championship team. Our job is to find our 1 & 2.
Can RJ & Robinson grow into a 1 or 2? Maybe. It will sure help them develop if there are some good players to support them, and dumping Randle/Morris does the exact opposite.
I think RJ could be #2 defo not #1 unless his shooting because a lot more consistent and Mitch could be an all star type but I don't see him as the guy but a really good player down the line. But yeah the idea should be building a team with the vision of a championship in the future and hoping we get lucky in a draft or assembling enough assets to trade for our guy.
