knicks1248 wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:93BUICK wrote:ankurk wrote:we have 2 more years of mitchell robinson before he is an UFA
hype around the league is high right now but he continues to have mental lapses on the court
if we were fortunate enough to end up with a top 4 pick and ball off the board - considering James Wiseman isn't the worst ideaWiseman would mean 4 years of salary control and RFA after
Say you take Wiseman 3/4/5 in the draft
Does Mitchell net you a lottery pick to put someone like cole Anthony whos stock has dropped considerably into play?
If we do go ahead and trade for cp3 - having him in place to mentor anthony isnt terrible
A young 3 core of cole/rj/wiseman locked up for 4+ years would be a great foundation
Trading Mitch is the worst idea.
why?
Because he’s efficient in the paint, is a shot blocking force, plays defense and you don’t trade big for small and just about everyone is smaller than Mitch.
He's taking 5 jump shots in almost 2 season,and i doubt he has even attempted a 3 at all. He has ZERO confidence in any perimeter shot and IMO that's concerning...YOU CANT WIN a lot of games with a paint clogging center in TODAY'S NBA
I have seen teams shut that PnR lob completely down, and he causes an absolute cluster fck on the offensive end., the spacing is sad and frustrating, it's one of the main reasons randle is always spinning into a double team.
He's an energy guy off the bench, and we have so many holes to fill..so I would entertain trading him
I don’t like your logic. Just because every big can shoot doesn’t mean he won’t. He protects the paints, boards and scored very efficiently inside. All of those are desirable. He’s not untradeable Knicks1248 but you damn well better get something excellent in return.
And his shot can always improve.
I’m long term on Robinson
Why can’t he be a new age Dennis Rodman?
Allanfan20 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:93BUICK wrote:ankurk wrote:we have 2 more years of mitchell robinson before he is an UFA
hype around the league is high right now but he continues to have mental lapses on the court
if we were fortunate enough to end up with a top 4 pick and ball off the board - considering James Wiseman isn't the worst ideaWiseman would mean 4 years of salary control and RFA after
Say you take Wiseman 3/4/5 in the draft
Does Mitchell net you a lottery pick to put someone like cole Anthony whos stock has dropped considerably into play?
If we do go ahead and trade for cp3 - having him in place to mentor anthony isnt terrible
A young 3 core of cole/rj/wiseman locked up for 4+ years would be a great foundation
Trading Mitch is the worst idea.
why?
Because he’s efficient in the paint, is a shot blocking force, plays defense and you don’t trade big for small and just about everyone is smaller than Mitch.
He's taking 5 jump shots in almost 2 season,and i doubt he has even attempted a 3 at all. He has ZERO confidence in any perimeter shot and IMO that's concerning...YOU CANT WIN a lot of games with a paint clogging center in TODAY'S NBA
I have seen teams shut that PnR lob completely down, and he causes an absolute cluster fck on the offensive end., the spacing is sad and frustrating, it's one of the main reasons randle is always spinning into a double team.
He's an energy guy off the bench, and we have so many holes to fill..so I would entertain trading him
I don’t like your logic. Just because every big can shoot doesn’t mean he won’t. He protects the paints, boards and scored very efficiently inside. All of those are desirable. He’s not untradeable Knicks1248 but you damn well better get something excellent in return.
And his shot can always improve.
How can you improve on something that you don't do at all, you can't become a better driver if you don't drive
Efficient??? He's dunking the ball 90% of the time. I like him and would not mind keeping him, but im sick of losing, and we need better players, or atleast players that complement each other
knicks1248 wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:93BUICK wrote:ankurk wrote:we have 2 more years of mitchell robinson before he is an UFA
hype around the league is high right now but he continues to have mental lapses on the court
if we were fortunate enough to end up with a top 4 pick and ball off the board - considering James Wiseman isn't the worst ideaWiseman would mean 4 years of salary control and RFA after
Say you take Wiseman 3/4/5 in the draft
Does Mitchell net you a lottery pick to put someone like cole Anthony whos stock has dropped considerably into play?
If we do go ahead and trade for cp3 - having him in place to mentor anthony isnt terrible
A young 3 core of cole/rj/wiseman locked up for 4+ years would be a great foundation
Trading Mitch is the worst idea.
why?
Because he’s efficient in the paint, is a shot blocking force, plays defense and you don’t trade big for small and just about everyone is smaller than Mitch.
He's taking 5 jump shots in almost 2 season,and i doubt he has even attempted a 3 at all. He has ZERO confidence in any perimeter shot and IMO that's concerning...YOU CANT WIN a lot of games with a paint clogging center in TODAY'S NBA
I have seen teams shut that PnR lob completely down, and he causes an absolute cluster fck on the offensive end., the spacing is sad and frustrating, it's one of the main reasons randle is always spinning into a double team.
He's an energy guy off the bench, and we have so many holes to fill..so I would entertain trading him
I don’t like your logic. Just because every big can shoot doesn’t mean he won’t. He protects the paints, boards and scored very efficiently inside. All of those are desirable. He’s not untradeable Knicks1248 but you damn well better get something excellent in return.
And his shot can always improve.
How can you improve on something that you don't do at all, you can't become a better driver if you don't drive
Efficient??? He's dunking the ball 90% of the time. I like him and would not mind keeping him, but im sick of losing, and we need better players, or atleast players that complement each other
Correct we need players to compliment Mitch.
WE have not much else to compliment.
BRIGGS wrote:I’m long term on RobinsonWhy can’t he be a new age Dennis Rodman?
because people are tired of losing and we have to trade something good in order to get worse
Mitchell Robinson is the kind of player that you keep forever, as long as you can. Look at some ex knicks and the absurdly long careers and winning they've done and been part of:
Trevor Ariza
Gallinari
Wilson Chandler
Under no circumstances should we trade Robinson. He is the kind of big that can defend the perimeter on switches, he is intimidating inside, and he knows what he can do offensively.
Don't say Mitchell doesn't shoot jumpers at all. You're just seeing the games. I heard an assistant coach recently make the point that Mitch is taking those jumpers in practice. You will begin to see it in games soon enough. Patience!
Who knows if we get Wiseman.
knicks1248 wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:93BUICK wrote:ankurk wrote:we have 2 more years of mitchell robinson before he is an UFA
hype around the league is high right now but he continues to have mental lapses on the court
if we were fortunate enough to end up with a top 4 pick and ball off the board - considering James Wiseman isn't the worst ideaWiseman would mean 4 years of salary control and RFA after
Say you take Wiseman 3/4/5 in the draft
Does Mitchell net you a lottery pick to put someone like cole Anthony whos stock has dropped considerably into play?
If we do go ahead and trade for cp3 - having him in place to mentor anthony isnt terrible
A young 3 core of cole/rj/wiseman locked up for 4+ years would be a great foundation
Trading Mitch is the worst idea.
why?
Because he’s efficient in the paint, is a shot blocking force, plays defense and you don’t trade big for small and just about everyone is smaller than Mitch.
He's taking 5 jump shots in almost 2 season,and i doubt he has even attempted a 3 at all. He has ZERO confidence in any perimeter shot and IMO that's concerning...YOU CANT WIN a lot of games with a paint clogging center in TODAY'S NBA
I have seen teams shut that PnR lob completely down, and he causes an absolute cluster fck on the offensive end., the spacing is sad and frustrating, it's one of the main reasons randle is always spinning into a double team.
He's an energy guy off the bench, and we have so many holes to fill..so I would entertain trading him
I don’t like your logic. Just because every big can shoot doesn’t mean he won’t. He protects the paints, boards and scored very efficiently inside. All of those are desirable. He’s not untradeable Knicks1248 but you damn well better get something excellent in return.
And his shot can always improve.
How can you improve on something that you don't do at all, you can't become a better driver if you don't drive
Efficient??? He's dunking the ball 90% of the time. I like him and would not mind keeping him, but im sick of losing, and we need better players, or atleast players that complement each other
Ahh the old “all he does is dunk” argument.
Find a good starting PG who can run the floor and Mitch will be complimenting gloriously regardless of how he scores his points.
Sambakick wrote:Don't say Mitchell doesn't shoot jumpers at all. You're just seeing the games. I heard an assistant coach recently make the point that Mitch is taking those jumpers in practice. You will begin to see it in games soon enough. Patience!
Who knows if we get Wiseman.
I remember making this gif of him nailing a jumper. Was the 4th game of the season. Form looked good. Don't know why he refuses to shoot them.
At some point he will be a starter. And I think it will have a similar impact to when Dray was promoted to starer for GS
Right now our roster is very awkward but it we get some better balance, spacing and shooting he'll make his next step. How many guys in the league can protect the rim and the perimeter the way he does? (yes there will be growing pains)
Chandler wrote:
At some point he will be a starter. And I think it will have a similar impact to when Dray was promoted to starer for GSRight now our roster is very awkward but it we get some better balance, spacing and shooting he'll make his next step. How many guys in the league can protect the rim and the perimeter the way he does? (yes there will be growing pains)
Modern NBA is about efficiency. Best players are those who make efficient plays.
Mitch is 73%... the highest ever in NBA history.
His defensive impact is also one of the best if not The best among all NBA centers.
And he is very young player with little NBA experience.
If he would have jumper no one will doubt him as supper-star project.
He only can be in a trade conversation for generational player in his prime.
And those are not getting traded. So there is no conversation.
arkrud wrote:Chandler wrote:
At some point he will be a starter. And I think it will have a similar impact to when Dray was promoted to starer for GSRight now our roster is very awkward but it we get some better balance, spacing and shooting he'll make his next step. How many guys in the league can protect the rim and the perimeter the way he does? (yes there will be growing pains)
Modern NBA is about efficiency. Best players are those who make efficient plays.
Mitch is 73%... the highest ever in NBA history.
His defensive impact is also one of the best if not The best among all NBA centers.
And he is very young player with little NBA experience.
If he would have jumper no one will doubt him as supper-star project.
He only can be in a trade conversation for generational player in his prime.
And those are not getting traded. So there is no conversation.
The wild thing about his efficiency is that our spacing is terrible. So it’s not like he is eating off of a spread floor. He is eating in traffic and crowded paints. As well as average to below average G play for most of the yr.
Gotta create that pick you poison type options.
newyorknewyork wrote:Sambakick wrote:Don't say Mitchell doesn't shoot jumpers at all. You're just seeing the games. I heard an assistant coach recently make the point that Mitch is taking those jumpers in practice. You will begin to see it in games soon enough. Patience!
Who knows if we get Wiseman.
I remember making this gif of him nailing a jumper. Was the 4th game of the season. Form looked good. Don't know why he refuses to shoot them.
Pure guess on my part: Mitch has a ton of fundamental learning to do. Missed a year of coaching and because of his physical abilities didn't really get pushed in high school.
Let's say he has 10 major holes to fill, and realistically you can only work on so many during the season, maybe up to 3+ at a time before you are overwhelmed. His forte is defense and you want to keep a player motivated and engaged and not failing, move him forward at every chance. I'd guess that his jumpshot is not in good enough fundamental form and they want to work on that first before moving on; start with the FT's and get that nailed down and confident before adding something else. If he is to be in an offensive set with an opportunity for a jumpshot, he has to learn where to be and when to shoot, and those 2 things come first.
We know Mitch didn't even figure out how to set a pick until some time this year.
This won't come out right but Mitch is behind the curve for his age, may be a bit of a slow learner.
Keep it simple. Let him flush out the parts of the game that he is comfortable with and then add others.
Mitch is succeeding in his second season and chasing history. Let him have it. Then CONTINUE to build off of it. That he is fouling at lower rate, getting points, getting the FT line, and staying healthy is an excellent sophomore season. We always assume "if he can do this....he can do more....."
He IS dominant in what he is doing and is just 21!
newyorknewyork wrote:arkrud wrote:Chandler wrote:
At some point he will be a starter. And I think it will have a similar impact to when Dray was promoted to starer for GSRight now our roster is very awkward but it we get some better balance, spacing and shooting he'll make his next step. How many guys in the league can protect the rim and the perimeter the way he does? (yes there will be growing pains)
Modern NBA is about efficiency. Best players are those who make efficient plays.
Mitch is 73%... the highest ever in NBA history.
His defensive impact is also one of the best if not The best among all NBA centers.
And he is very young player with little NBA experience.
If he would have jumper no one will doubt him as supper-star project.
He only can be in a trade conversation for generational player in his prime.
And those are not getting traded. So there is no conversation.
The wild thing about his efficiency is that our spacing is terrible. So it’s not like he is eating off of a spread floor. He is eating in traffic and crowded paints. As well as average to below average G play for most of the yr.
Gotta create that pick you poison type options.
not that I'm advocating this necessarily but could you imagine Mitch paired with CP3?
yesterday he had one play where his head was as high as the backboard. The wiz announcers were going nuts over his bounce.
i wouldn't compare him to rodman but what about Deandre (plus Mitch can guard the perimeter!!)
I will give the Knicks credit where credit is due. Getting Mitch in the second round and then signing him to a four-year contract was one of the best draft moves of the past decade. They then brought in Deandre Jordan to turbocharge Mitch’s development and followed that up with Taj Gibson, which has helped Mitch learn more nuisances of the game. Mitch has a jumper but why shoot jumpers when you can pretty much score at will around the paint. Mitch is doing what he is comfortable doing. Once he goes through a playoff series and a team actually stops the pick and roll, then Mitch will further develop his perimeter game but for now, he is at a good place. No way you trade this guy unless it is for a young superstar and even then I would probably pass.
TheGame wrote:I will give the Knicks credit where credit is due. Getting Mitch in the second round and then signing him to a four-year contract was one of the best draft moves of the past decade. They then brought in Deandre Jordan to turbocharge Mitch’s development and followed that up with Taj Gibson, which has helped Mitch learn more nuisances of the game. Mitch has a jumper but why shoot jumpers when you can pretty much score at will around the paint. Mitch is doing what he is comfortable doing. Once he goes through a playoff series and a team actually stops the pick and roll, then Mitch will further develop his perimeter game but for now, he is at a good place. No way you trade this guy unless it is for a young superstar and even then I would probably pass.
he needs a jumper to stay longterm IMO. What he is doing while making peanuts is great. We need other forwards to be able to play with him. We needed space for Melo/Amare/Chandler to work. It didn't because Chandler had to be able to roll down the lane to score and it ate up space for Melo and Amar'e so really only 2 of the 3 could play at the same time. Robinson;s inability to shoot a jumper will limit the team's flexibility in terms of roster construction if his game hasn't expanded and he's making 21 mil a year
SupremeCommander wrote:TheGame wrote:I will give the Knicks credit where credit is due. Getting Mitch in the second round and then signing him to a four-year contract was one of the best draft moves of the past decade. They then brought in Deandre Jordan to turbocharge Mitch’s development and followed that up with Taj Gibson, which has helped Mitch learn more nuisances of the game. Mitch has a jumper but why shoot jumpers when you can pretty much score at will around the paint. Mitch is doing what he is comfortable doing. Once he goes through a playoff series and a team actually stops the pick and roll, then Mitch will further develop his perimeter game but for now, he is at a good place. No way you trade this guy unless it is for a young superstar and even then I would probably pass.
he needs a jumper to stay longterm IMO. What he is doing while making peanuts is great. We need other forwards to be able to play with him. We needed space for Melo/Amare/Chandler to work. It didn't because Chandler had to be able to roll down the lane to score and it ate up space for Melo and Amar'e so really only 2 of the 3 could play at the same time. Robinson;s inability to shoot a jumper will limit the team's flexibility in terms of roster construction if his game hasn't expanded and he's making 21 mil a year
This. His game is one dimensional and will limit our options on offense. It would be different if he adds a midrange game but hasn't shown any signs of it.
Wiseman is an athletic big that can get up and down the floor with a more developed offensive game
Article today is Rich Paul is now his 5th agent. This kid just turned 22 april 1st.
Signs with Western Kentucky, He does not stick.
Drops to 2nd round.
Does he take bad advice or make bad decisions.
We got a new agent filling him up with hot air and likely asking them to renegotiate his contract or when the time comes "or else".
Being objective this is a good kid who is also non committal? Impulsive? Does he become obssessed with his stats, status, and contract?
Ok if all the above as long as he performs his job. Sometimes its not the agent, but the player who does not do what the agent is imploring him to work on.
Trade value? If my scenario is valid then its not a secret. Knicks have no reason to short change this kid but we don't want to over pay for something that is not a valid talent either.
Mitch from what we see and read is still a great prospect. But if he has some deep seeded entitlement stature Im worried about it.
Mitch and RJ should be essentially untradeable. Not to say you build around them, but you need to build with them as 2 mainstays in the lineup.
Nalod wrote:Article today is Rich Paul is now his 5th agent. This kid just turned 22 april 1st.
Signs with Western Kentucky, He does not stick.
Drops to 2nd round. Does he take bad advice or make bad decisions.
We got a new agent filling him up with hot air and likely asking them to renegotiate his contract or when the time comes "or else".
Being objective this is a good kid who is also non committal? Impulsive? Does he become obssessed with his stats, status, and contract?
Ok if all the above as long as he performs his job. Sometimes its not the agent, but the player who does not do what the agent is imploring him to work on.
Trade value? If my scenario is valid then its not a secret. Knicks have no reason to short change this kid but we don't want to over pay for something that is not a valid talent either.
Mitch from what we see and read is still a great prospect. But if he has some deep seeded entitlement stature Im worried about it.
I don’t know about the agent switching but his leaving WKU was well documented. He committed there because his godfather was on the coaching staff. His godfather resigned prior to Robinson starting there. Robinson decide initially he would stick it out, practiced with the team and enrolled in summer courses. He changed his mind but because he has practiced and attended class becoming eligible to play at another school for that season was going to be very hard and there was a chance it wouldn’t happen. He decided to train for the draft instead.
In regards to agents, he is signed to a very team friendly deal. He may have had regrets. His most recent agent had one other client, Kenny Wooten. Signing with Paul was probably a good move. Guys do switch agents, especially when they are coming up on what could be a big contract. Remember Lin fired his agent to go with a big time firm before he got his poison pill deal.
