Knicks · OT: Coronavirus updates/info (page 27)

martin @ 4/14/2020 1:19 PM
NotInMyHouse @ 4/14/2020 5:01 PM
Things just got more interesting. There has been some talk of holding China responsible for the CV19 virus, now this from The Washington Post today.

State Department cables warned of safety issues at Wuhan lab studying bat coronaviruses

snippet:

What the U.S. officials learned during their visits concerned them so much that they dispatched two diplomatic cables categorized as Sensitive But Unclassified back to Washington. The cables warned about safety and management weaknesses at the WIV lab and proposed more attention and help. The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab’s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic.
...
“Most importantly,” the cable states, “the researchers also showed that various SARS-like coronaviruses can interact with ACE2, the human receptor identified for SARS-coronavirus. This finding strongly suggests that SARS-like coronaviruses from bats can be transmitted to humans to cause SARS-like diseases. From a public health perspective, this makes the continued surveillance of SARS-like coronaviruses in bats and study of the animal-human interface critical to future emerging coronavirus outbreak prediction and prevention.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...
smackeddog @ 4/14/2020 5:19 PM
NotInMyHouse wrote:Things just got more interesting. There has been some talk of holding China responsible for the CV19 virus, now this from The Washington Post today.

State Department cables warned of safety issues at Wuhan lab studying bat coronaviruses

snippet:

What the U.S. officials learned during their visits concerned them so much that they dispatched two diplomatic cables categorized as Sensitive But Unclassified back to Washington. The cables warned about safety and management weaknesses at the WIV lab and proposed more attention and help. The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab’s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic.
...
“Most importantly,” the cable states, “the researchers also showed that various SARS-like coronaviruses can interact with ACE2, the human receptor identified for SARS-coronavirus. This finding strongly suggests that SARS-like coronaviruses from bats can be transmitted to humans to cause SARS-like diseases. From a public health perspective, this makes the continued surveillance of SARS-like coronaviruses in bats and study of the animal-human interface critical to future emerging coronavirus outbreak prediction and prevention.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...

Are we going to hold all countries responsible now for viruses that originated in those countries? Are we going to backdate it? Viruses hijack people and use their body to replicate and spread. Trump called it the Chinese virus because he knew xenophobic racist idiot fans of his would lap it up and focus their anger at China rather than his own god awful response. Got to hand it to him, he knows how to manipulate his followers.


US intelligence indicates the virus likely occurred naturally, as opposed to being created in a Chinese laboratory – but there is no certainty either way, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff has said.

The remarks by US army General Mark Milley could fan speculation about the virus’ origins; something China has dismissed as a conspiracy theory that is unhelpful to the fight against the pandemic.

Asked whether he had any evidence that the virus perhaps began in a Chinese laboratory and was perhaps released accidentally, Milley was non-committal at a Pentagon news briefing.

There’s a lot of rumour and speculation in a wide variety of media, the blog sites, etc. It should be no surprise to you that we’ve taken a keen interest in that and we’ve had a lot of intelligence take a hard look at that.

And I would just say, at this point, it’s inconclusive although the weight of evidence seems to indicate natural. But we don’t know for certain.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2...

martin @ 4/14/2020 10:33 PM
ramtour420 @ 4/15/2020 2:24 AM
No one is really talking about this , but this article from 2015 sure seems interesting. Also puts at rest the argument of man-made origin vs. natural origin
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrmicro....
ramtour420 @ 4/15/2020 2:30 AM
And a quick google search for Menachery referenced in the article brings us to
https://microbiology.utmb.edu/faculty/vi...
That's University of Texas.
NotInMyHouse @ 4/15/2020 5:06 AM
smackeddog wrote:Are we going to hold all countries responsible now for viruses that originated in those countries? Are we going to backdate it? Viruses hijack people and use their body to replicate and spread. Trump called it the Chinese virus because he knew xenophobic racist idiot fans of his would lap it up and focus their anger at China rather than his own god awful response. Got to hand it to him, he knows how to manipulate his followers.

I’m not really sure; I’m just reporting the news. Speculating I can say, since China’s population is the largest in the world and their mistakes, being that they are central to Global trade, is magnified, they are held to a much higher standard. If there is no danger of accountability, then Countries (and people) might act irresponsible if there are no consequences; Just a thought as I really don't know.

I know too many Trump “fans”, some from childhood, and not one of them is racist or Xenophobic. If they were they wouldn’t be friends. You can go back hundreds of years, but more recently, were the Spanish Flu, Russian Flu, 1957 Asian Flu, etc. racist? Don’t attribute racism and xenophobia to things that are simply descriptive.


Interesting timing here:

President Trump Putting A Hold On Funding To The World Health Organization
snippet

Trump accused the WHO of putting "political correctness" over lives for not recommending restrictions, though on February 11, the organization released a statement saying short travel suspensions early at the start of an outbreak could help to prepare, which the administration largely did not throughout February.
...
While Trump lays blame on the WHO for delays in response to the coronavirus, the New York Times reported over the weekend that national security and health officials as well as aides were sounding the alarm of an oncoming pandemic to the president throughout January and February.
...
Trump additionally said the WHO didn't call out China's lack of transparency, though on January 24, he tweeted the U.S. "greatly appreciates [China's] efforts and transparency."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2...
Allanfan20 @ 4/15/2020 9:37 AM

Firefly, any thoughts? A friend of mine who is a nurse showed me this.

Allanfan20 @ 4/15/2020 10:06 AM
I am just pointing things out and asking smart people what they think here...
https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/...
martin @ 4/15/2020 11:39 AM
One of the reasons COVID-19 will last a lot longer in the US is that we just dont have the type of culture needed to contain and make it go away.

Any one see us doing this:

martin @ 4/15/2020 12:38 PM
3 full months essentially for a fairly advanced/structured country to go from full time testing to re-open.

USA is a long way away from starting that clock responsibly

Marv @ 4/15/2020 12:50 PM
if anyone’s interested, here’s a guided workbook for families to discuss and process covid.

http://nobpc.org/word2015/wp-content/upl...

smackeddog @ 4/15/2020 12:56 PM
martin wrote:One of the reasons COVID-19 will last a lot longer in the US is that we just dont have the type of culture needed to contain and make it go away.

Any one see us doing this:

Yeah, that's my main worry- there's a complete lack of adequate state infrastructure as well as an anti-government culture. I definitely think trump will go for lifting the lockdown ASAP, and then it's going to be a horror show. Unless people defy it (which I think they will- who the heck is going to go out and live life as before with a killer virus running rampant?). How do you just go into work while hundreds of thousands, or millions are dying?

Our only hope is that the virus had a much higher prevalence rate that went completely undetected as it was symptomless. Really need to hear from that study the German government is doing to test just that (they're going to mass test huge samples of their population to see who has had the furs). Won't be out til sometime in may, I think.

martin @ 4/15/2020 1:23 PM
This is scary:

martin @ 4/15/2020 1:31 PM
martin @ 4/15/2020 1:46 PM
NotInMyHouse @ 4/15/2020 3:49 PM
martin wrote:One of the reasons COVID-19 will last a lot longer in the US is that we just dont have the type of culture needed to contain and make it go away.

Any one see us doing this:

I could imagine many Americans accepting those restrictions, if that is the right word. I wouldn't want them putting one of those long Q-Tips in my nose right there to test, but a temperature gun wouldn't bother me. Disinfecting the poll booths? Seeing people wearing masks, seeing hand disinfectant at the stores, seems like par for the course. Sure, get them high temp people in another booth. No big fear thing (now), but makes sense, and they get to vote. But, I wonder what they will do with high risk people (i.e. old people with prior conditions?) That said, people are different in America. I can imagine some places not digging that.

The thing I don't want to see is remote voting or the like. There are too many problems with voting as it is, to now change the system over. Ripe for manipulation. I think it is fair to say, that we are going to see a bit of a storm here.

Stay well

firefly @ 4/16/2020 6:31 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:

Firefly, any thoughts? A friend of mine who is a nurse showed me this.

Thanks for sending that Allanfan20. Appreciated.

I want to address the content of what she said first.

Regarding this one guy who said it looks like high-altitude sickness. That's all well and good. And we should try and combine treatments to include things we use in other therapies. But clinging onto these words in the way this lady is will make you miss the forest for the trees 100% of the time.

She is right that getting fluid off the chest is a useful thing to do in this disease. And the reason noone got back to her from the CDC and noone is getting back to her from anywhere is because this really is day 1 super obvious. All the patients in ICU are being diuresed, given high doses of diuretics to make them pee out all the fluid collecting in their lungs.

Secondly her understanding of the physiology of the virus and how we monitor its effect on the body is flawed. Pulse oximetry is the simplest form of monitoring we do and we go far deeper. We compare tidal volumes, expiratory pressures, partial pressures of O2 and co2 check for inhale/exhale mismatches, adjust for resp rates, temperature, lactate and a hundred other things. So it's not as simple as to say "stop using ventilators because they don't need it". That part is not the case. Intensivists are some of the most careful conscientious medics I've ever met, and they are super careful especially regarding ventilators.

Thirdly, while I already said she's right about the diuresis being of value, most hospitals and countries are actually now moving away from that treatment. The evidence we are seeing now on the ground is that this is a massively thrombogenic virus. It's causing lots and lots of little clots, primarily in the lung but also in other places. High incidences of DVT all of a sudden. Stroke. Cardiac problems in patients with no previous cardiac issues. It fits with the profile of the common covid patient with hypertension and diabetes, both diseases that cause extra glucose and poor vascular resistance in the blood vessels. Since this seems to be the primary mode of destruction of lung parenchyma, we seem to be moving away from the usual idea that drying their lungs out will be most beneficial to a more fluid-positive plan, because actually drying them out causes the micro-thrombi in the lungs to worsen.

Lastly, now that I've taken the content of the video seriously, what on earth is with that lady?? Is she just super excited to be on video?? Self-pleasuring while pontificating?? Or just an enormous drama queen. She worries me a lot more than the content of her words lmao.

Regardless, it's a useful thought, it's been discussed in many ICUs the world over, it's been addressed in treatment. And unfortunately doesn't seem to be working any better than anything else were trying here. I'm sorry.

Allanfan20 @ 4/16/2020 7:20 PM
firefly wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:

Firefly, any thoughts? A friend of mine who is a nurse showed me this.

Thanks for sending that Allanfan20. Appreciated.

I want to address the content of what she said first.

Regarding this one guy who said it looks like high-altitude sickness. That's all well and good. And we should try and combine treatments to include things we use in other therapies. But clinging onto these words in the way this lady is will make you miss the forest for the trees 100% of the time.

She is right that getting fluid off the chest is a useful thing to do in this disease. And the reason noone got back to her from the CDC and noone is getting back to her from anywhere is because this really is day 1 super obvious. All the patients in ICU are being diuresed, given high doses of diuretics to make them pee out all the fluid collecting in their lungs.

Secondly her understanding of the physiology of the virus and how we monitor its effect on the body is flawed. Pulse oximetry is the simplest form of monitoring we do and we go far deeper. We compare tidal volumes, expiratory pressures, partial pressures of O2 and co2 check for inhale/exhale mismatches, adjust for resp rates, temperature, lactate and a hundred other things. So it's not as simple as to say "stop using ventilators because they don't need it". That part is not the case. Intensivists are some of the most careful conscientious medics I've ever met, and they are super careful especially regarding ventilators.

Thirdly, while I already said she's right about the diuresis being of value, most hospitals and countries are actually now moving away from that treatment. The evidence we are seeing now on the ground is that this is a massively thrombogenic virus. It's causing lots and lots of little clots, primarily in the lung but also in other places. High incidences of DVT all of a sudden. Stroke. Cardiac problems in patients with no previous cardiac issues. It fits with the profile of the common covid patient with hypertension and diabetes, both diseases that cause extra glucose and poor vascular resistance in the blood vessels. Since this seems to be the primary mode of destruction of lung parenchyma, we seem to be moving away from the usual idea that drying their lungs out will be most beneficial to a more fluid-positive plan, because actually drying them out causes the micro-thrombi in the lungs to worsen.

Lastly, now that I've taken the content of the video seriously, what on earth is with that lady?? Is she just super excited to be on video?? Self-pleasuring while pontificating?? Or just an enormous drama queen. She worries me a lot more than the content of her words lmao.

Regardless, it's a useful thought, it's been discussed in many ICUs the world over, it's been addressed in treatment. And unfortunately doesn't seem to be working any better than anything else were trying here. I'm sorry.

Her nerves did bother me a little. I am with you. Thanks for the words though. Just figured I could show the video.

martin @ 4/17/2020 1:00 PM
Cuomo is giving Trump the business this morn.

Small sample

NYKBocker @ 4/17/2020 1:34 PM
martin wrote:Cuomo is giving Trump the business this morn.

Small sample

Yup. I watch him every morning. Cuomo was pissed.

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