Knicks · Mike Woodson over Tom t (page 1)

To me it’s a no brainer

Best we’ve done in 20 years mike w directly responsible. He’s also player friendly

By the time Woodson left, he wasnt even calling plays, just passively watching. Got so bad on one timeout, Melo yelled at Woodson to coach the players. He changed agents to make Dolan happy. Lets bring back Rambis and Herb while we're at it.

GustavBahler wrote:By the time Woodson left, he wasnt even calling plays, just passively watching. Got so bad on one timeout, Melo yelled at Woodson to coach the players. He changed agents to make Dolan happy. Lets bring back Rambis and Herb while we're at it.

I agree, don't want a Thibbs or Woodson. Woodson had prime Melo to carry his offense. Random thought, one guy I would like to coach the Knicks, but never available to match when we have an opening is Nate McMillan.

Yeah Woodson did a good job getting the players to play defense a good portion of the time but the offense was mostly uninspiring. With that said, we had mostly either inefficient or unskilled players. The offense wasn’t going to reach great heights.

briggs be like he in on the interviews?
If a retread I want the guy with winning record who demonstrated he is better at things he was not.
Or
THe fresh innovative assistant who will be given time to develop himself and players.
I’m most wary of Kidd given his personality clashes in BKN and Mil. Has he grown thru it?
Fans are like “The past is the only thing”. Its not.

BRIGGS wrote:To me it’s a no brainer

Best we’ve done in 20 years mike w directly responsible. He’s also player friendly

I agree- at first I didn't see the point in interviewing, but the more I thought about it, the more he made sense. He was very popular with the players, has a history of both developing young players and also coaching vets and winning. Was great with the media, is NY tested, doesn't have an ego. Had a very very good run with us that is completely under rated/forgotten. Plus he'd be open to having up and coming associate coaches/assistant coaches picked by Rose etc from these interviews.

Eh, I like Mike. But I've already accepted that it's probably Thib's gig, barring an email exceptional interview that blows Thibs away. We've already seen what most of these candidates can do, so I'm not expecting the unexpected here.

BigDaddyG wrote:Eh, I like Mike. But I've already accepted that it's probably Thib's gig, barring an email exceptional interview that blows Thibs away. We've already seen what most of these candidates can do, so I'm not expecting the unexpected here.

Alan hahn was saying the reason why we're interviewing so many is in case Thibs says no (eg might if Rose insists on helping kick the assistants or if Thibs doesn't want a full rebuild /doesn't agree with the direction or if he thinks he can get a rockets or nets or sixers type job).

I think it's very unlikely woody gets hired as head coach, but I think he makes more sense than a lot of the other candidates (especially Kidd), and I do think he gets unfairly treated by a lot of Knicks fans

Mike Woodson definitely would be a good guy to get.

I would be happy with Miller, Woodson, or Atkinson. I question Thibs' ability to relate to the players.

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:To me it’s a no brainer

Best we’ve done in 20 years mike w directly responsible. He’s also player friendly

Woodson comes from the Dusty Baker school of coaching. Figure out who can cost him his job the quickest and let that person or set of people do whatever they want.

John Stockton

Becky Hammon

Stockton could be one of the best coaches in the NBA with a couple of years of experience. But he wants zero to do with the modern player. This is the tax created by the modern NBA player ( entitled, won't listen, cares too much about off court glitz, Me First/Me Always attitude, etc)

If Hammon was the Knicks head coach, the NBA would rig two of the next three lotteries for them. On her end, no player could openly defy her. Ever. The level of damage they would receive would be insurmountable. She pulls a player from a game, he argues, then suddenly Brie Larson, fresh from plastic surgery and wearing the tightest dress she can find, shows up at a game and throws a can of organic garbanzo beans at his head. Feminists would hammer sponsors demanding X player be kicked out of the league for being a woman hater. They yell at the networks, the networks yells at Adam Silver, Silver lays the hammer down on the player. Hammon could walk around like Tony Soprano. She could go to games wearing a bathrobe and sunglasses and she'd be untouchable. Knicks player would get every call in their favor by the refs. NBA would give the Knicks the most favorable schedule in the league. Oprah would call her "My sister Beck-ah"

The networks would demand the NBA make Becky Hammon a success. That's the narrative they want. Poppovich isn't some coaching guru who picked her out of the crowd, it was his own agenda to build his legacy and fuel his own ego to say he pushed forward the first woman coach.

She is, by all accounts, a decent person and a decent coach trying to pay her dues through the ranks, but it doesn't matter.

Becky Hammon would, unintentionally, catapult the Knicks into a contender.

This is the new normal, gentlemen.

Are you ready for it??

TheGame wrote:Mike Woodson definitely would be a good guy to get.

I would be happy with Miller, Woodson, or Atkinson. I question Thibs' ability to relate to the players.

For me, the main problem with Thibs is (and probably unfairly), the media has already trashed his reputation and system- we saw the impact that has with Phil, just constant stories of how his system is outdated, which in turn would undermine him and the players faith in it.

TheGame wrote:Mike Woodson definitely would be a good guy to get.

I would be happy with Miller, Woodson, or Atkinson. I question Thibs' ability to relate to the players.

I always think of this when I see that video.

TripleThreat wrote:

TheGame wrote: I question Thibs' ability to relate to the players.

Is that a bad thing?

Right now you have players complaining about their food in the "bubble". The general optics on that is horrible. There are a shitload of dead people. Other people have lost their jobs. No one is sure what will happen with their kids. I'd be glad to not be able to relate to that kind of crap .

If you have a player on a big contract and he doesn't want to listen to you, what can you do as a coach. In this regard, I can't really hammer Woodson too hard.

Coaches that seem to have this magical "respect" that people talk about usually have an elite player who has simply bought in with the coach and demands everyone else falls into line. It's that simple. If your elite guy stands by you, you are golden. If not, you are not. If Duncan was a different person, stirred up drama and demanded Pop gone, while Duncan was in his prime, Poppovich would be gone.

It could only be Pat Riley, whom most players think is the Scarface of the NBA, who would tell his star players to go shove it and stop complaining about the guy he picked for coach.

It's easier to blame the coach. And sometimes it is some of the coaches fault. However the NBA narrative is hilarious in that it's ALWAYS the coaches fault. The Knicks need a coach the players can respect? No, how about Melo show up in shape and play some fucking defense? When you do everything you can as a player, then you can begin to question your coach, your GM and your franchise. If Pat Beverley has a problem with his coach, then at least the guy gives 350 percent every game, spills all his blood to win, and then you can start to take what he says seriously.

Players need to correct themselves and their own games first.

My thing is why hire a guy that has questions regarding his ability to relate. This team needs a teacher right now that can relate to very young players. Thibs would probably be the last guy I would pick for that type of team. I am not saying he is not a good coach. Obviously, Thibs knows what he is doing, but he seems more like someone NJ would hire to get them over the hump. We are about 2 years behind NJs program. We need a coach that is going to focus on building up these young guys without worrying about the record.

TheGame wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

TheGame wrote: I question Thibs' ability to relate to the players.

Is that a bad thing?

Right now you have players complaining about their food in the "bubble". The general optics on that is horrible. There are a shitload of dead people. Other people have lost their jobs. No one is sure what will happen with their kids. I'd be glad to not be able to relate to that kind of crap .

If you have a player on a big contract and he doesn't want to listen to you, what can you do as a coach. In this regard, I can't really hammer Woodson too hard.

Coaches that seem to have this magical "respect" that people talk about usually have an elite player who has simply bought in with the coach and demands everyone else falls into line. It's that simple. If your elite guy stands by you, you are golden. If not, you are not. If Duncan was a different person, stirred up drama and demanded Pop gone, while Duncan was in his prime, Poppovich would be gone.

It could only be Pat Riley, whom most players think is the Scarface of the NBA, who would tell his star players to go shove it and stop complaining about the guy he picked for coach.

It's easier to blame the coach. And sometimes it is some of the coaches fault. However the NBA narrative is hilarious in that it's ALWAYS the coaches fault. The Knicks need a coach the players can respect? No, how about Melo show up in shape and play some fucking defense? When you do everything you can as a player, then you can begin to question your coach, your GM and your franchise. If Pat Beverley has a problem with his coach, then at least the guy gives 350 percent every game, spills all his blood to win, and then you can start to take what he says seriously.

Players need to correct themselves and their own games first.

My thing is why hire a guy that has questions regarding his ability to relate. This team needs a teacher right now that can relate to very young players. Thibs would probably be the last guy I would pick for that type of team. I am not saying he is not a good coach. Obviously, Thibs knows what he is doing, but he seems more like someone NJ would hire to get them over the hump. We are about 2 years behind NJs program. We need a coach that is going to focus on building up these young guys without worrying about the record.

then maybe go back and look at how some of the young guys faired under Thibs... Rose, Noah, Deng or how the Bulls were 41-41 the year before Thibs got there and won 62 games in his first year.

I dont know where the anti-Thibs propaganda is coming from but it makes no sense. Woodson over Thibs? Are still maxing out Isiah Thomas and Enes Kanter too?

Tom T's coming in and out of situations...

Chicago:
Year before Thibs 41-41
First year with Thibs 62-20
Last year with Thibs 50-32
First with without Thibs 42-40 (Hoiberg)

Minn:
29-53 With out Thibs
31-51 with Thibs
47-35 next year w/ Thibs
19-21 w/ Thibs, 17-25 w/ Saunders (replaces Thibs)
19-45 post Thibs

if you cant see the pattern its pretty straightforward... When Thibs comes more wins do also. When he leaves those wins leave also. Hmmmm.... but yea lets go with sentimental choices, ignore a career with losing teams and go Mike Miller and Woodson.

fishmike wrote:Tom T's coming in and out of situations...

Chicago:
Year before Thibs 41-41
First year with Thibs 62-20
Last year with Thibs 50-32
First with without Thibs 42-40 (Hoiberg)

Minn:
29-53 With out Thibs
31-51 with Thibs
47-35 next year w/ Thibs
19-21 w/ Thibs, 17-25 w/ Saunders (replaces Thibs)
19-45 post Thibs

if you cant see the pattern its pretty straightforward... When Thibs comes more wins do also. When he leaves those wins leave also. Hmmmm.... but yea lets go with sentimental choices, ignore a career with losing teams and go Mike Miller and Woodson.

Look, I am not going to sit here and argue that Thibbs is not a good coach. In my prior comment, I acknowledged that he is a good coach. I just stated that he had problems connecting with the young players from his last team. Now that may be due to Townsend and Wiggins just not been good young players with Thibbs style, but things fell apart there. My main point is that this team is probably 2 years away from needing a coach like Thibbs. I think Miller earned the right to be given another year to prove himself. If you get Thibbs, then expectations become sky high, when the reality is that this team really needs to focus one more year on development and getting a high pick in the 2021 draft), rather than making the playoffs. Unless the Knicks are going to give Thibbs four years and commit to that timeframe, I think they would be better off sticking with Miller, who did get individual improvement out of the players.

fishmike wrote:Tom T's coming in and out of situations...

Chicago:
Year before Thibs 41-41
First year with Thibs 62-20
Last year with Thibs 50-32
First with without Thibs 42-40 (Hoiberg)

Minn:
29-53 With out Thibs
31-51 with Thibs
47-35 next year w/ Thibs
19-21 w/ Thibs, 17-25 w/ Saunders (replaces Thibs)
19-45 post Thibs

if you cant see the pattern its pretty straightforward... When Thibs comes more wins do also. When he leaves those wins leave also. Hmmmm.... but yea lets go with sentimental choices, ignore a career with losing teams and go Mike Miller and Woodson.

Look at how Woody built up the Hawks from nothing:

2004-5: 12-69
2005-6: 26-56
2006-7: 30-52
2007-8: 37-45
2008-9: 47-35
2009-10: 53-29

Added wins every season

Compare D'Antoni's half of the season with Woodson's half. Compare Woodsons first full season with the one before it. Woodson isn't a sentimental choice, he had a good record and did well with us, and for some reason doesn't get any due. Headscractching when you look at how poor all our other coaches have been since JVG.

D'Antoni: 2011-12: 18-24
Woody: 2011-12: 18-6
2012-13: 54-28
(Ignore the Bargnani year! I'm blaming it all on injuries and ridiculous roster moves (Chris Smith, Bargs, etc etc)

I think This has been unfairly trashed, but the reality is every interview the press will be pumping out "is This defensive scheme outdated?", players will be asked it all year long as they struggle to master it, to the point where they lose faith in it.

smackeddog wrote:

TheGame wrote:Mike Woodson definitely would be a good guy to get.

I would be happy with Miller, Woodson, or Atkinson. I question Thibs' ability to relate to the players.

For me, the main problem with Thibs is (and probably unfairly), the media has already trashed his reputation and system- we saw the impact that has with Phil, just constant stories of how his system is outdated, which in turn would undermine him and the players faith in it.

Thibs did coach Minnesota up to an offense that was above average, just looking at the numbers. I will never follow Minnesota that closely, so I can't tell if it was because of This, an assistant or the simple fact he roster if decent offensive players.

BigDaddyG wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TheGame wrote:Mike Woodson definitely would be a good guy to get.

I would be happy with Miller, Woodson, or Atkinson. I question Thibs' ability to relate to the players.

For me, the main problem with Thibs is (and probably unfairly), the media has already trashed his reputation and system- we saw the impact that has with Phil, just constant stories of how his system is outdated, which in turn would undermine him and the players faith in it.

Thibs did coach Minnesota up to an offense that was above average, just looking at the numbers. I will never follow Minnesota that closely, so I can't tell if it was because of This, an assistant or the simple fact he roster if decent offensive players.

Yeah, I can't be bothered researching the TWolves either! ha!

Looks like Alan Hahn was right, we were doing a big coaches search just in case This said no (and also to check out some possible assistant coaches)

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Little caveat

I’d like to hire the coach from Dayton. We’re simply rehiring massive retreads here. But I think Woodson is the better choice