Knicks · Tom Thibodeau finalizing 5 year deal with knicks per woj (7/30: it's official) (page 3)

KnickDanger wrote:I get being unsure but I find the super negative takes curious. Then again this is a Knicks board.

We all wanted Atkinson and the media manipulated people into accepting Thibs by the rumor that Kidd was a favorite. They even started false rumors to make it seem he was wanted elsewhere but That wasn’t enough to make people not prefer Atkinson. Basically Thibs was for many people a second choice and for a good size of the fanbase even lower on the scale of available candidates.

Thibs is not a popular choice and the media will try to sell it like it’s not a failed coach getting a chance because of who he is friends with. The biggest punch line is they gave him 5 years. That stinks of him being hooked up by his friend with a hefty contract where neither his record or demand for his services necessitated it.

wargames wrote:

Uptown wrote:I'll say this, hiring Thibs is definitely a culture shift and the Knicks will finally have an identity. Last coach we hired that gave us a true identity was MDA.

MDA sucked here.... there wasn’t an identity because we never had the players he needed to run SSOL. The Knicks just wasted his time

We actually did, the pre melo knicks team was a d antoni team. Too bad we all knew what happened

unstopaball12 wrote:

wargames wrote:

Uptown wrote:I'll say this, hiring Thibs is definitely a culture shift and the Knicks will finally have an identity. Last coach we hired that gave us a true identity was MDA.

MDA sucked here.... there wasn’t an identity because we never had the players he needed to run SSOL. The Knicks just wasted his time

We actually did, the pre melo knicks team was a d antoni team. Too bad we all knew what happened

Didn't like D'Antoni but we screwed him over like we did most coaches over the decades by not giving them a decent PG. Felton was as good as it got and D'Antoni did well with him. We have to fill the PG spot!

I know people might be disappointed with the Thibs hiring, i myself wanted Kenny to get the job. A part of me is glad it wasn't Kidd. Im fine with the Thibs hire.

Alot of people question the motives behind Leon Rose's decision to Hire Thibs, it's possible that its Thibs right from the start but going through 2 rounds of interviews for 11 candidates can look like a genuine education/research to get to know the other side of the NBA better and not just done as a favor. Rose was a successful agent and wants to be a successful NBA executive. He hired Thibs because he genuinely think he is the best man for the job. And its in both of their interest for this hire to succeed.

I am ok with the 5 year deal, the knicks haven't had a coach that lasted for more than 3 years in a long time. I think Rose is hoping Thibs can be the long term coach the knicks have been missing. A resident coach like Pop is for the spurs.

My take is that the thinking here is that in the era of load management, putting together a young team that plays tough-nosed defense every night is a way they can win a little over their heads during the regular season and get superstar free agents to take a look in the 2021 class. The roster is also shallow so relying on Barrett, Robinson and whoever this year's lottery pick is to play heavy minutes and teach them defense is probably the right way to go about things in the short-term.

In the event it works, Thibs probably isn't coaching team when superstars with the power to get coaches fired actually come in, but then they can just fire him and pay the cash.

Jimbo5 wrote:I know people might be disappointed with the Thibs hiring, i myself wanted Kenny to get the job. A part of me is glad it wasn't Kidd. Im fine with the Thibs hire.

Alot of people question the motives behind Leon Rose's decision to Hire Thibs, it's possible that its Thibs right from the start but going through 2 rounds of interviews for 11 candidates can look like a genuine education/research to get to know the other side of the NBA better and not just done as a favor. Rose was a successful agent and wants to be a successful NBA executive. He hired Thibs because he genuinely think he is the best man for the job. And its in both of their interest for this hire to succeed.

I am ok with the 5 year deal, the knicks haven't had a coach that lasted for more than 3 years in a long time. I think Rose is hoping Thibs can be the long term coach the knicks have been missing. A resident coach like Pop is for the spurs.

Add more levels to it. I think 9 of the 11 people interviewed were CAA clients

Everything about their moves so far has been “Fox is running the hen house moves” I want to see FA and the draft, but if we keep bringing in CAA clients it’s clear that the NY Knicks are really the NY CAA’s.

BRIGGS wrote:Hire a defensive coach in an offensive league

If you look at the history of the league, it seems as if championship teams don't win rings following current league trends. Things seem to be cyclical. If we try to win a ring attempting to duplicate the Warriors we'll never get it done.

I wanted our new coach in this order

1. JVG
2. Thibs, Atkinson, Miller

I am good with Thibs. He has developed young players and is a defensive minded coach.

People complain that his offense is predictable and stale. Tell me, outside of Golden State, San Antonio and Houston, what other teams have a dynamic offense? Yup. All of the good offensive teams have superstars that can get buckets. We need to develop our roots. Thibs can do this.

Our core of RJ, Mitch and Frank have 1 thing that they are already good at. They are very good defensively. Thibs will make them even better. This is the best for this team right now.

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Hire a defensive coach in an offensive league

If you look at the history of the league, it seems as if championship teams don't win rings following current league trends. Things seem to be cyclical. If we try to win a ring attempting to duplicate the Warriors we'll never get it done.

You want two way players and you want to be able to stop guys BUT

This is an offensive league now— the rules cater to it. Guys shoot from 30 feet
And there’s no hand checking on d. While I agree with u style of play changes. Right now you better have some good size with some good shooters. When ya at its best— impossible to stop. Need to fight fire with fire

NYKBocker wrote:I wanted our new coach in this order

1. JVG
2. Thibs, Atkinson, Miller

I am good with Thibs. He has developed young players and is a defensive minded coach.

People complain that his offense is predictable and stale. Tell me, outside of Golden State, San Antonio and Houston, what other teams have a dynamic offense? Yup. All of the good offensive teams have superstars that can get buckets. We need to develop our roots. Thibs can do this.

Our core of RJ, Mitch and Frank have 1 thing that they are already good at. They are very good defensively. Thibs will make them even better. This is the best for this team right now.

JVG? This isn’t 1997??

wargames wrote:

Uptown wrote:I'll say this, hiring Thibs is definitely a culture shift and the Knicks will finally have an identity. Last coach we hired that gave us a true identity was MDA.

MDA sucked here.... there wasn’t an identity because we never had the players he needed to run SSOL. The Knicks just wasted his time

I wasn't a huge MDA supporter, but he never had elite players to run his SSOL offensive successfully. But he did run the SSOL early offense, especially during the 2010-2011 season before they traded for Melo. I liked Melo, but he and MDA were a clash in styles.

Thibs is an excellent hire. Briggs hasnt watched basketball for some years if he thinks Thibs is a "defensive coach" when the last team he had was the exact opposite. KAT became an all star under Thibs and he coached that team to the 4th best offense in the league. 4th. Thats elite. He wins and everywhere he goes players get better and the records improve. When he leaves records go south.

Lets start with winning more games and making our players better. Two things Thibs has a proven track record with.

Deng was in the league for 6 years. Under Thibs goes to b2b all star games. RJ is a nice fit with Thibs. Noah was another. In the league 4 years. Under Thibs goes to b2b all star games.

Thibs didnt try to turn Minn into a defensive. He coached up their offense (their only strength) into an elite offense. He took good defensive player in Chi and made them all stars. He wins games.

This is a good start. Let have a good draft next.

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Hire a defensive coach in an offensive league

If you look at the history of the league, it seems as if championship teams don't win rings following current league trends. Things seem to be cyclical. If we try to win a ring attempting to duplicate the Warriors we'll never get it done.

You want two way players and you want to be able to stop guys BUT

This is an offensive league now— the rules cater to it. Guys shoot from 30 feet
And there’s no hand checking on d. While I agree with u style of play changes. Right now you better have some good size with some good shooters. When ya at its best— impossible to stop. Need to fight fire with fire

But that's the problem. Isn't that what Houston has been trying to do, fight fire with fire. Back in the day, when Showtime was all the rage, Detroit didn't try to out Showtime the Lakers.

I get what you're saying about the rules, but I don't think you have to necessarily fight fire with fire. I don't think there are enough players who can shoot to do that. Even with today's rules there are different ways to win. Teams that try to play "follow the leader" rarely do it well enough to dethrone whoever is on top.

BRIGGS wrote:Hire a defensive coach in an offensive league

That is what I am thinking too. There was all this flak about Phil for running an 'outdated' triangle offense, I fear before long we will see a retread of that theme in terms of:

"Why did we hire an outdated defensive-minded coach in an era of an offense-oriented NBA?"
"Why did we hire a coach who runs a few core players into the ground, when we need to develop so many young players by giving them meaningful minutes" (remember how we chastised JVG and Hornacek for rotations only 8-players deep and all veterans at that?)
'Why did we hire a coach who cannot relate to young players?'
'Why are our players always gassed or injured?'

I feel that in the last few years our main problem was an unimaginative offense, with one-on-one isolations and scant passing, which did not force opposing teams to work hard on the defensive end, and as a result they stayed fresher through four quarters, while our players ran out of gas. This was true with or without Melo, and under several coaches. And I feel this was one of the reasons why KP was not as successful as he could have been here, since in Europe he was used to playing within a flow of a team offense, getting easier buckets on cuts, putbacks and open perimeter shots, in a better orchestrated offense based on team play and passing. While in NY it was; here's the ball, create your own shot somehow, while your teammates stand around and watch. It is much different for him with Doncic and Dallas's offense.

To me this is simply a retread of the past.
Tom T connects some of the end of the Knicks good years. Some fans still know he’s part of that.
But the reality is he had oodles of trouble in Minnesota and while he won in Chicago— something went very foul for them to cut bait.

I’m looking for the next Eric Spolestra — I want fresh and innovative. I really don’t care what skin color a coach is— neither do the players but at the end in Chicago and the whole in Minnesota— this guy was not good. That Jimmy Butler trade he made-/ one that got the bulls Zach LaVine scared me— that mentality is not where I want to go

ESOMKnicks wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Hire a defensive coach in an offensive league

That is what I am thinking too. There was all this flak about Phil for running an 'outdated' triangle offense, I fear before long we will see a retread of that theme in terms of:

"Why did we hire an outdated defensive-minded coach in an era of an offense-oriented NBA?"
"Why did we hire a coach who runs a few core players into the ground, when we need to develop so many young players by giving them meaningful minutes" (remember how we chastised JVG and Hornacek for rotations only 8-players deep and all veterans at that?)
'Why did we hire a coach who cannot relate to young players?'
'Why are our players always gassed or injured?'

I feel that in the last few years our main problem was an unimaginative offense, with one-on-one isolations and scant passing, which did not force opposing teams to work hard on the defensive end, and as a result they stayed fresher through four quarters, while our players ran out of gas. This was true with or without Melo, and under several coaches. And I feel this was one of the reasons why KP was not as successful as he could have been here, since in Europe he was used to playing within a flow of a team offense, getting easier buckets on cuts, putbacks and open perimeter shots, in a better orchestrated offense based on team play and passing. While in NY it was; here's the ball, create your own shot somehow, while your teammates stand around and watch. It is much different for him with Doncic and Dallas's offense.

I think this is where getting the right assistant coaches comes into play.

BRIGGS wrote:To me this is simply a retread of the past.
Tom T connects some of the end of the Knicks good years. Some fans still know he’s part of that.
But the reality is he had oodles of trouble in Minnesota and while he won in Chicago— something went very foul for them to cut bait.

I’m looking for the next Eric Spolestra — I want fresh and innovative. I really don’t care what skin color a coach is— neither do the players but at the end in Chicago and the whole in Minnesota— this guy was not good. That Jimmy Butler trade he made-/ one that got the bulls Zach LaVine scared me— that mentality is not where I want to go

considering you dont seem to know what you are talking about as far as Thibs in Chi/Minn I can see your confusion.

BRIGGS wrote:To me this is simply a retread of the past.
Tom T connects some of the end of the Knicks good years. Some fans still know he’s part of that.
But the reality is he had oodles of trouble in Minnesota and while he won in Chicago— something went very foul for them to cut bait.

I’m looking for the next Eric Spolestra — I want fresh and innovative. I really don’t care what skin color a coach is— neither do the players but at the end in Chicago and the whole in Minnesota— this guy was not good. That Jimmy Butler trade he made-/ one that got the bulls Zach LaVine scared me— that mentality is not where I want to go

You do realize that Spolestra only has a 53% regular season/39% playoff winning percentage minus Lebron, right?

fishmike wrote:Thibs is an excellent hire. Briggs hasnt watched basketball for some years if he thinks Thibs is a "defensive coach" when the last team he had was the exact opposite. KAT became an all star under Thibs and he coached that team to the 4th best offense in the league. 4th. Thats elite. He wins and everywhere he goes players get better and the records improve. When he leaves records go south.

Lets start with winning more games and making our players better. Two things Thibs has a proven track record with.

Deng was in the league for 6 years. Under Thibs goes to b2b all star games. RJ is a nice fit with Thibs. Noah was another. In the league 4 years. Under Thibs goes to b2b all star games.

Thibs didnt try to turn Minn into a defensive. He coached up their offense (their only strength) into an elite offense. He took good defensive player in Chi and made them all stars. He wins games.

This is a good start. Let have a good draft next.

Fish mike— there is nothing positive from the Minnesota situation. He did many wrong things and forced them into firing him. I’m sure w the Knicks it may be a coaching only deal. And maybe he has learned something but I’d rather find out own Erik Spoelstra

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:To me this is simply a retread of the past.
Tom T connects some of the end of the Knicks good years. Some fans still know he’s part of that.
But the reality is he had oodles of trouble in Minnesota and while he won in Chicago— something went very foul for them to cut bait.

I’m looking for the next Eric Spolestra — I want fresh and innovative. I really don’t care what skin color a coach is— neither do the players but at the end in Chicago and the whole in Minnesota— this guy was not good. That Jimmy Butler trade he made-/ one that got the bulls Zach LaVine scared me— that mentality is not where I want to go

You do realize that Spolestra only has a 53% regular season/39% playoff winning percentage minus Lebron, right?

They had to rebuild and he stayed competitive while they did it. I’d rather a 35-40 yo old coach. Someone who could grow w the team. Just didn’t go that way

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:To me this is simply a retread of the past.
Tom T connects some of the end of the Knicks good years. Some fans still know he’s part of that.
But the reality is he had oodles of trouble in Minnesota and while he won in Chicago— something went very foul for them to cut bait.

I’m looking for the next Eric Spolestra — I want fresh and innovative. I really don’t care what skin color a coach is— neither do the players but at the end in Chicago and the whole in Minnesota— this guy was not good. That Jimmy Butler trade he made-/ one that got the bulls Zach LaVine scared me— that mentality is not where I want to go

You do realize that Spolestra only has a 53% regular season/39% playoff winning percentage minus Lebron, right?

They had to rebuild and he stayed competitive while they did it. I’d rather a 35-40 yo old coach. Someone who could grow w the team. Just didn’t go that way

But then you advocated for mid-50s Anthony Grant? There are only two coaches currently in the league that fit that description, Luke Walton with the Kings and Ryan Saunders with the Wolves. Thanks but no thanks. It is highly probable they're going to grow to the unemployment line.