Knicks · We don’t have 1 player we can sit and say we can build w this guy (page 1)

BRIGGS wrote:That’s what the team needs. One guy who we can build around. And unlesS we figure out the basics in that area— almost any move is a secondary move. Trading K P was awful// shouodve worked the issues through. We atleast had a kp —- now we don’t. We have to sit and pray that a free agent wants to come here or overpay for a 35 year old.

Barrett has a chance. Obviously we have no idea at this point in time if he can be that guy. Maybe he can't. But impossible to rule him out yet. As a playmaking wing, he's the type of player you need in today's league. The shooting concerns are there of course, but the profile can help offset it.

BRIGGS wrote:That’s what the team needs. One guy who we can build around. And unlesS we figure out the basics in that area— almost any move is a secondary move. Trading K P was awful// shouodve worked the issues through. We atleast had a kp —- now we don’t. We have to sit and pray that a free agent wants to come here or overpay for a 35 year old.

Every team in the league is saying that except the Clippers, Lakers, Dallas and Milwaukee. Heck, even if we had still had KP, we'd probably be wondering the same thing. All you can do is collect assets and strike when one of those players becomes available through the draft, free agency or a trade.

KP may have been that guy but
a) he didn't want to be it here
b) he seems like a perfect Robin to Luka
c) time to move on and not pine for past loves

RJ is a hard worker and we'll know pretty quickly if he takes steps this offseason. Like most, I'm hoping he works on his outside shooting, free throws and court vision to improve on a solid rookie year.

I would not underestimate MR either. He's a year or two away physically but man 'o' shevitz....

RJ Barrett's rookie performance wasn't close to what a lot of Knick fans expected .. Knox will become a decent NBA player on the Knicks or the next team.
The Knicks roster could use one or two NBA star leader players to give the young-core players guidance on the court of the many b.ball situation.

fwk00 wrote:We still have the unicorn, Ntilikina.

He will be coming into his own under Thibs and I'm looking forward to it.

I would not underestimate MR either. He's a year or two away physically but man 'o' shevitz....

Frank has to show he can play 2 decent games in a row. I’m pretty sure he was in sane draft as Devon booker— just a tad behind him skill wise

BRIGGS wrote:

fwk00 wrote:We still have the unicorn, Ntilikina.

He will be coming into his own under Thibs and I'm looking forward to it.

I would not underestimate MR either. He's a year or two away physically but man 'o' shevitz....

Frank has to show he can play 2 decent games in a row. I’m pretty sure he was in sane draft as Devon booker— just a tad behind him skill wise

Devin Booker was part of the 2015 class with KP. Knicks got Frank with 8th pick in 2017, DSJr was the 9th that year.... and so were Donovan Mitchell and Bam Adebayo at picks 13, 14.

RJ Barrett has potential as a player you could build around. If, let's say, he shot 42% FG, 34% 3PT, 70% FT as a rookie, we'd probably have even more optimism around him.

We have a 2 year window to get our sh*t together with having foundational pieces and free agents, because Mitchell Robinson 4 year steal deal will be coming to a close. With the current rules, he has the makings of a potential max deal ($20-30m likely), which would be a mistake if we didn't have the team built out.

So best case scenario:
1) RJ takes a step forward and becomes our go-to-guy.
2) Randle becomes a legit 20/10 player and solidifies his reliability as a #1 or #2 scoring option. (honestly, I look at his numbers this year and 19.5ppg, 9.7rpg, 3.1apg, 46% FG... that's pretty solid - I was just turned off by his odd turnovers and performance in clutch moments)
3) Mitch grows his game and looks more like Clint Capela, Rudy Gobert, vintage DeAndre Jordan or even Dwight Howard.
4) a serviceable PG emerges. I'm holding out hope it could be DSJ, but I fear he's lost his explosiveness as he's grown up - he's always been too reliant on his athleticism and his skills haven't grown enough to compensate with merely above average athleticism.

Alternate scenario:
We sign Ingram and he becomes our superstar. That would totally change the complexion of the team. The best version of Ingram from the Pelicans checks off all the boxes, shoots the lights out all over the floor, can initiate the offense. That takes away the pressure of 1-4 having to happen.

technomaster wrote:Devin Booker was actually in the KP draft class, 13th overall. There was a long list of blown lottery picks that season. He's debatably better than KAT, Russell, KP, Turner. (and clearly better than the busts: Okafor, Hezonja, Cauley-Stein-Stein, Mudiay, Stanley Johnson, Kaminsky, Justise, Lyles... some of whom are still decent rotation players)

RJ Barrett has potential as a player you could build around. If, let's say, he shot 42% FG, 34% 3PT, 70% FT as a rookie, we'd probably have even more optimism around him.

We have a 2 year window to get our sh*t together with having foundational pieces and free agents, because Mitchell Robinson 4 year steal deal will be coming to a close. With the current rules, he has the makings of a potential max deal ($20-30m likely), which would be a mistake if we didn't have the team built out.

So best case scenario:
1) RJ takes a step forward and becomes our go-to-guy.
2) Randle becomes a legit 20/10 player and solidifies his reliability as a #1 or #2 scoring option. (honestly, I look at his numbers this year and 19.5ppg, 9.7rpg, 3.1apg, 46% FG... that's pretty solid - I was just turned off by his odd turnovers and performance in clutch moments)
3) Mitch grows his game and looks more like Clint Capela, Rudy Gobert, vintage DeAndre Jordan or even Dwight Howard.
4) a serviceable PG emerges. I'm holding out hope it could be DSJ, but I fear he's lost his explosiveness as he's grown up - he's always been too reliant on his athleticism and his skills haven't grown enough to compensate with merely above average athleticism.

Alternate scenario:
We sign Ingram and he becomes our superstar. That would totally change the complexion of the team. The best version of Ingram from the Pelicans checks off all the boxes, shoots the lights out all over the floor, can initiate the offense. That takes away the pressure of 1-4 having to happen.

We have to keep in mind Barrett was really coming into his own once Miller took over as HC and Morris was moved. Morris wasn't the issue, but having him and Randle take turns playing with the ball while Barrett was stuck in the corner wasn't a good offense for him. I think with a better situation and more freedom with the ball he can excel. People who are against him really focus on the negative advanced analytics but he was obviously in a terrible situation and to me he passed the eye test. He started to come on late and i think we would have seen better numbers had the season completed. Would love to see us grab a complimentary PG like FVV that doesn't need the ball in his hands all the time and let Barrett run as sort of the 1A option with FVV as 1B and a nice cast of role players and see if Barrett can be a go-to guy to at least trend in that direction.

Chandler wrote:i think Barrett can be that guy. He needs to develop parts of his game but he's very tough minded and competitive. We need to keep him at the 2

If I was on the Knicks I might be willing to move Barrett to Pg. I said on another site 18 months ago I think if he could develop a better j he could be a Harden hybrid pg type

But Barrett also deters me from Lamelo ball— I don’t see synergy nor is the shooting anywhere good enough to have both.

BRIGGS wrote:

Chandler wrote:i think Barrett can be that guy. He needs to develop parts of his game but he's very tough minded and competitive. We need to keep him at the 2

If I was on the Knicks I might be willing to move Barrett to Pg. I said on another site 18 months ago I think if he could develop a better j he could be a Harden hybrid pg type

But Barrett also deters me from Lamelo ball— I don’t see synergy nor is the shooting anywhere good enough to have both.

He should be a wing, but play alongside a PG that can play off the ball. That is a big reason i value Haliburton so much. We need a plug and play PG that can knock down open shots, play D, and move the ball.

Chandler wrote:i think Barrett can be that guy. He needs to develop parts of his game but he's very tough minded and competitive. We need to keep him at the 2

With the way the NBA is played now (position-less and launching 40+ 3's per game) running like a track meet, load management.

Building around one or 2 players is not that important anymore when stars (young and old) are being traded, and requesting trades more than ever before

I think it's more important to build a deep 8 man roster, sort of like the Raptors.

The average contract in the NBA is like 3 yrs or under..Have look for yourself(https://www.basketball-reference.com/con... unless your a proven star.

That makes it much more easier to build a championship, rather than sit though 3 or 4 yrs hoping a guy develops into something special

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:i think Barrett can be that guy. He needs to develop parts of his game but he's very tough minded and competitive. We need to keep him at the 2

With the way the NBA is played now (position-less and launching 40+ 3's per game) running like a track meet, load management.

Building around one or 2 players is not that important anymore when stars (young and old) are being traded, and requesting trades more than ever before

I think it's more important to build a deep 8 man roster, sort of like the Raptors.

The average contract in the NBA is like 3 yrs or under..Have look for yourself(https://www.basketball-reference.com/con... unless your a proven star.

That makes it much more easier to build a championship, rather than sit though 3 or 4 yrs hoping a guy develops into something special

It's true, the Raptors are so well-built. But still, Kawhi was a franchise player and led them last year, and Siakam stepped up to franchise player territory this year. Lowry and VanVleet are excellent 2nd and 3rd guys and obviously they are very deep. They have a lot of guys who compete defensively and a lot of guys that can shoot the 3.

Besides, this is why Rose and "Worlwide" Wes are here. To use their many connections to bring that player to NY.

GustavBahler wrote:If Mitch rounds out his game, he could be that player. We still dont know his ceiling. Barely played.

Besides, this is why Rose and "Worlwide" Wes are here. To use their many connections to bring that player to NY.

Mitch can be elite but i don't see him as a guy you build around. He's a strong complimentary piece. Still i'm very confident we have 2 long-term starters on a winning team.

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:i think Barrett can be that guy. He needs to develop parts of his game but he's very tough minded and competitive. We need to keep him at the 2

With the way the NBA is played now (position-less and launching 40+ 3's per game) running like a track meet, load management.

Building around one or 2 players is not that important anymore when stars (young and old) are being traded, and requesting trades more than ever before

I think it's more important to build a deep 8 man roster, sort of like the Raptors.

The average contract in the NBA is like 3 yrs or under..Have look for yourself(https://www.basketball-reference.com/con... unless your a proven star.

That makes it much more easier to build a championship, rather than sit though 3 or 4 yrs hoping a guy develops into something special

It's true, the Raptors are so well-built. But still, Kawhi was a franchise player and led them last year, and Siakam stepped up to franchise player territory this year. Lowry and VanVleet are excellent 2nd and 3rd guys and obviously they are very deep. They have a lot of guys who compete defensively and a lot of guys that can shoot the 3.

You may have to look at RJ like The raptors looked at Derozen, great talent and a loyal player, but the team lacked that killer instinct, so they took a BIG BOY risk on kawhi, and it paid of handsomely...took a risk on Lowry and gave up a first round pick, something knicks fans cringed at the possibility of giving up another 1st round pick...

When lowry became available again, Mills was scared to death to pull the trigger because it would have included a 1st round pick (frank)

Imagine making that same mistake twice, which I felt we did by not trading FOR DLO..at least that would have secured the back court with RJ and DLO...

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Chandler wrote:i think Barrett can be that guy. He needs to develop parts of his game but he's very tough minded and competitive. We need to keep him at the 2

If I was on the Knicks I might be willing to move Barrett to Pg. I said on another site 18 months ago I think if he could develop a better j he could be a Harden hybrid pg type

But Barrett also deters me from Lamelo ball— I don’t see synergy nor is the shooting anywhere good enough to have both.

He should be a wing, but play alongside a PG that can play off the ball. That is a big reason i value Haliburton so much. We need a plug and play PG that can knock down open shots, play D, and move the ball.

this is where I'm at. There are tons of top teams where the offense does not run through a pg: lakers, rockets, denver, bucks to name a few

you want a situation where the guy can handle the ball better than the opponent can defend that guy with the ball, and also want someone smart with good vision. i can totally see the offense running through RJ. I just want his FT% to improve (a lot) and his shooting to improve at least some and steadily

Chandler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Chandler wrote:i think Barrett can be that guy. He needs to develop parts of his game but he's very tough minded and competitive. We need to keep him at the 2

If I was on the Knicks I might be willing to move Barrett to Pg. I said on another site 18 months ago I think if he could develop a better j he could be a Harden hybrid pg type

But Barrett also deters me from Lamelo ball— I don’t see synergy nor is the shooting anywhere good enough to have both.

He should be a wing, but play alongside a PG that can play off the ball. That is a big reason i value Haliburton so much. We need a plug and play PG that can knock down open shots, play D, and move the ball.

this is where I'm at. There are tons of top teams where the offense does not run through a pg: lakers, rockets, denver, bucks to name a few

you want a situation where the guy can handle the ball better than the opponent can defend that guy with the ball, and also want someone smart with good vision. i can totally see the offense running through RJ. I just want his FT% to improve (a lot) and his shooting to improve at least some and steadily

I wonder what it would take to get Monte Morris from Denver? He’s a free agent next year and I can’t see Denver paying him to remain stuck behind Murray. The fans and media have been calling for him to start alongside Murray over Harris. He’s a younger PG with a good bbiq, can knock down open shots, takes care of the ball and plays decent D. I’d give our late first round pick or a future pick for him. Such a great fit next to Barrett. Not a high upside guy but could be a good starting PG on a winning team if the plan is to run the offense thru a wing player.

I’m not particularly high on Ntilikina because of his confidence issues, but man if he can get his shooting to come around than on paper he’s a good fit with Barrett. He just needs to become a spot up threat.