Knicks · Knicks Free Agency 2020 (page 5)

their additions (FA or draft) should be as much, or more, about players who are smart and do things the right way (brains and heart), to start building a team and winning habits.

We're not a player or draft pick away. No dummies, no prima donnas

Chandler wrote:If Knicks wanted my advice, their FA plans should mirror what I suggested for drafting

their additions (FA or draft) should be as much, or more, about players who are smart and do things the right way (brains and heart), to start building a team and winning habits.

We're not a player or draft pick away. No dummies, no prima donnas

100%

TripleThreat wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:Randle to the Jazz is not necessary about roster fit for the Jazz but maybe more of a cap space move for them, giving them more room to make more moves to improve for next year.

Well, it will be interesting to see what develops through the offseason. It seems the front office would like to make a splash and change the roster significantly.

Mirror Test this. If the Knicks had Conley, would they trade him for Randle?

Randle is a no defense ball stopper who doesn't protect the rim. He clogs the Jazz's floor spacing. And while Conley is old and overpaid, he still fills a role for them. He also has a 4 million dollar buyout in that team option year.

Adding Randle is a net negative with a walk year tax that creates a new hole on your roster.

Agreed but can’t mirror test it. This is a small market franchise that has lost a lot of money this year. Of course it probably won’t happen but it’s based on the premise that Utah needs to bail out of that contract. Swapping those contacts gets them away from luxury tax and under the cap. If they need to do that.

Knixkik wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:Randle to the Jazz is not necessary about roster fit for the Jazz but maybe more of a cap space move for them, giving them more room to make more moves to improve for next year.

Well, it will be interesting to see what develops through the offseason. It seems the front office would like to make a splash and change the roster significantly.

Mirror Test this. If the Knicks had Conley, would they trade him for Randle?

Randle is a no defense ball stopper who doesn't protect the rim. He clogs the Jazz's floor spacing. And while Conley is old and overpaid, he still fills a role for them. He also has a 4 million dollar buyout in that team option year.

Adding Randle is a net negative with a walk year tax that creates a new hole on your roster.

Agreed but can’t mirror test it. This is a small market franchise that has lost a lot of money this year. Of course it probably won’t happen but it’s based on the premise that Utah needs to bail out of that contract. Swapping those contacts gets them away from luxury tax and under the cap. If they need to do that.

Yep, look at the jazz salary numbers next season--with conley they're on $117 mil before they even re-sign Clarkson. Swapping Conley for Randle allows them to re-sign Clarkson without their total salary becoming crazy (saves them $14mil which should cover his new salary) and Randles deal should be very tradeable at the deadline for them to add a $20mil player.

Plus they can try out life without Gobert by playing randle at C and seeing how that goes (I'm guessing not well!)

I think the main threat would be Detroit or the hawks offering to take his full salary for free, but likely they'd want greater pick considerations than we would

TripleThreat wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:Randle to the Jazz is not necessary about roster fit for the Jazz but maybe more of a cap space move for them, giving them more room to make more moves to improve for next year.

Well, it will be interesting to see what develops through the offseason. It seems the front office would like to make a splash and change the roster significantly.

Mirror Test this. If the Knicks had Conley, would they trade him for Randle?

Randle is a no defense ball stopper who doesn't protect the rim. He clogs the Jazz's floor spacing. And while Conley is old and overpaid, he still fills a role for them. He also has a 4 million dollar buyout in that team option year.

Adding Randle is a net negative with a walk year tax that creates a new hole on your roster.

Your premise is what? All things being equal?

That isn't the case. Utah needs to be fiscally responsible, moreso than the Knicks. You already know this. We aren't talking about a basketball trade. We're talking pure economics.

IFF the Knicks had the same budget considerations you do a trade. If these teams are bargaining, Utah should look to trade into some useful players who would fill needs that are more expensive on the open market. Conley and a swap of late picks works for both teams.

fwk00 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:Randle to the Jazz is not necessary about roster fit for the Jazz but maybe more of a cap space move for them, giving them more room to make more moves to improve for next year.

Well, it will be interesting to see what develops through the offseason. It seems the front office would like to make a splash and change the roster significantly.

Mirror Test this. If the Knicks had Conley, would they trade him for Randle?

Randle is a no defense ball stopper who doesn't protect the rim. He clogs the Jazz's floor spacing. And while Conley is old and overpaid, he still fills a role for them. He also has a 4 million dollar buyout in that team option year.

Adding Randle is a net negative with a walk year tax that creates a new hole on your roster.

Your premise is what? All things being equal?

That isn't the case. Utah needs to be fiscally responsible, moreso than the Knicks. You already know this. We aren't talking about a basketball trade. We're talking pure economics.

IFF the Knicks had the same budget considerations you do a trade. If these teams are bargaining, Utah should look to trade into some useful players who would fill needs that are more expensive on the open market. Conley and a swap of late picks works for both teams.

Also add to that Conley never fit well there, and outside of one really good game in the playoffs didn’t produce near his contract level. Utah can ditch Conley, probably switch #23 for #27 and save $14 Mil in salary. So they get the better, younger player (because Randle does look like the better player now), save $14 Mil, and move down to #27.

Conley is a CAA client, and the Knicks have a lot of ties to the current Jazz FO. It makes sense. Even if the Knicks draft one of Hayes, Hal, or Kira. Conley whose been a professional his whole life is a great mentor, and potentially someone who could earn another contract in NY.

2-3 years at 12 Mil would be fair, and would give a rookie PG time to improve before they take over eventually.

wargames wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:Randle to the Jazz is not necessary about roster fit for the Jazz but maybe more of a cap space move for them, giving them more room to make more moves to improve for next year.

Well, it will be interesting to see what develops through the offseason. It seems the front office would like to make a splash and change the roster significantly.

Mirror Test this. If the Knicks had Conley, would they trade him for Randle?

Randle is a no defense ball stopper who doesn't protect the rim. He clogs the Jazz's floor spacing. And while Conley is old and overpaid, he still fills a role for them. He also has a 4 million dollar buyout in that team option year.

Adding Randle is a net negative with a walk year tax that creates a new hole on your roster.

Your premise is what? All things being equal?

That isn't the case. Utah needs to be fiscally responsible, moreso than the Knicks. You already know this. We aren't talking about a basketball trade. We're talking pure economics.

IFF the Knicks had the same budget considerations you do a trade. If these teams are bargaining, Utah should look to trade into some useful players who would fill needs that are more expensive on the open market. Conley and a swap of late picks works for both teams.

Also add to that Conley never fit well there, and outside of one really good game in the playoffs didn’t produce near his contract level. Utah can ditch Conley, probably switch #23 for #27 and save $14 Mil in salary. So they get the better, younger player (because Randle does look like the better player now), save $14 Mil, and move down to #27.

Conley is a CAA client, and the Knicks have a lot of ties to the current Jazz FO. It makes sense. Even if the Knicks draft one of Hayes, Hal, or Kira. Conley whose been a professional his whole life is a great mentor, and potentially someone who could earn another contract in NY.

2-3 years at 12 Mil would be fair, and would give a rookie PG time to improve before they take over eventually.

Conley would be perfect because he’s still only 32 and can provide a few more years of good basketball at a moderate decline while hopefully our PG of the future (from the 8th pick, 27 pick, or another avenue) develops behind him. And then they eventually just swap places and Conley finishes his career out as a backup. Rose's guys seem really loyal to him so I’m expecting some of his vets like Conley or Paul and/or Melo to finish careers as knicks. I’m sure they want to play for contenders but have to assume whatever the sales pitch to get Bryant and Payne to leave their jobs to come to the Knicks will be the same pitch made for some of these vets.

fwk00 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:Randle to the Jazz is not necessary about roster fit for the Jazz but maybe more of a cap space move for them, giving them more room to make more moves to improve for next year.

Well, it will be interesting to see what develops through the offseason. It seems the front office would like to make a splash and change the roster significantly.

Mirror Test this. If the Knicks had Conley, would they trade him for Randle?

Randle is a no defense ball stopper who doesn't protect the rim. He clogs the Jazz's floor spacing. And while Conley is old and overpaid, he still fills a role for them. He also has a 4 million dollar buyout in that team option year.

Adding Randle is a net negative with a walk year tax that creates a new hole on your roster.

Your premise is what? All things being equal?

That isn't the case. Utah needs to be fiscally responsible, moreso than the Knicks. You already know this. We aren't talking about a basketball trade. We're talking pure economics.

IFF the Knicks had the same budget considerations you do a trade. If these teams are bargaining, Utah should look to trade into some useful players who would fill needs that are more expensive on the open market. Conley and a swap of late picks works for both teams.

Cap space teams

Six NBA teams project to have cap space at $109 million. They just project to have a little bit less than originally thought.

Atlanta Hawks: $43.2 million

New York Knicks: $41.5 million

Detroit Pistons: $28.2 million

Charlotte Hornets: $22.5 million

Miami Heat: $20.9 million

Phoenix Suns: $18.9 million

The first four teams will assuredly seek to be players this offseason. The Hawks are hoping to make the jump to being a playoff team. The Knicks are perpetually rebuilding, this time with a new front office in place. The Pistons have kicked off a rebuild, but still have some big enough salaries that they could look for a quick turnaround. And the Hornets feel they aren’t far from being a playoff team.

The Heat are already making waves that they could choose to roll over their space to the summer of 2021. This could include re-signing their own free agents to big one-year deals. The Suns could choose to do the same. The reason why is twofold. First, the free-agent class projects to be far better in 2021 than this summer. The second reason is that we’ll hopefully be in a more normal cap environment next summer. That means space could go much further in 2021 vs. 2020.
Luxury tax teams

While cap space teams won’t change much in this scenario, tax teams could change quite a bit. A projected cap of $115 million comes with a luxury tax at about $139 million. In that scenario, five to nine teams project to be over the luxury tax. A cap of $109 million carries a tax line of $132.6 million. At those figures, eight to 15 teams project to be over the tax.

The eight teams that are almost guaranteed to be in or around the tax are:

Boston Celtics

Brooklyn Nets

Golden State Warriors

Houston Rockets

Los Angeles Clippers

Los Angeles Lakers

Milwaukee Bucks

Philadelphia 76ers

These teams are already in the tax at $115 million or are very close to it.

The seven teams that could join them, pending roster decisions, are:

Denver Nuggets

Indiana Pacers

Oklahoma City Thunder

Orlando Magic

San Antonio Spurs

Toronto Raptors

Utah Jazz

These teams are probably clear of the tax in the original projection. If the tax line drops, these teams could face difficult decisions on retaining their own free agents and/or using exceptions.

Exception-limited teams

These nine teams are limited to using the non-taxpayer mid-level exception and/or bi-annual exception, whether the cap falls or not.

Chicago Bulls

Cleveland Cavaliers

Dallas Mavericks

Memphis Grizzlies

Minnesota Timberwolves

New Orleans Pelicans

Portland Trail Blazers

Sacramento Kings

Washington Wizards

The challenge these teams face is that they could be looking at approximately $500,000 less to use with the non-taxpayer MLE and almost $200,000 less with the bi-annual. While it’s an even playing field, having that much less to offer could make it hard to land free agents. It may be more enticing for a player to re-sign with his current team than leave for a lower than expected starting salary elsewhere.

1) The Knicks aren't the only team with open cap space

2) The premise relies on this being the best deal for the Jazz, there are other teams in the league. It also relies on this being the best deal for the Knicks to use their open cap space. There are other teams in the league.

3) The premise relies on the league not changing the tax line or the tax structure. If they don't individual teams will likely collapse financially across the intermediate term.

4) The premise relies on the Jazz resigning Clarkson as the only option and Conley as the only cap maneuver possible. They do have his Bird Rights. Is he the player that sparked the team in a contract year? Or is he more the player he's shown in the three years before?

newyorknewyork wrote:While I wouldn't mind that Conley deal. The fact that we are hearing rumors about it tells me that its not going to happen. But it could be purposely floated out there by the Knicks as a negotiation move with OKC for Paul. Showing there are other routes Knicks could take. Or by Utah to draw up interest in Conley.

I think there’s a reasonable chance we end up with Paul or Conley.

What ever moves the front office makes i just hope they keep their young core in the team. I want Mitch, RJ, Frank, Knox, Dot, Iggy, Wooten, Harper all spend 1 full year with the new staff and give them a chance to finally develop.

I wouldn't mind trading Randle and DSJ and at most give up 2 first rounders to get us key pieces to compliment our youth.

Im sure changes will come but im hoping the core above will still be with the team next year.

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Ha ha!

Jimbo5 wrote:There is an idea out there that the Knicks big move this offseason is to go all in on FVV and trading for Oladipo, pairing the two to be the Knicks dynamic duo.

Honestly, i would rather wait 1 more year and just sign Oladipo instead of trading for him and giving up assets. Next season could be a prove your worth year for Oladipo to show everyone that he is back from his injury. At this point, there are alot of unknowns with Oladipo's health, did his skill level return to his pre-injury state? I feel like the risk for trading for Oladipo is an Amare or T-mac situation, we might just get only a shell of the Allstar Oladipo we would like on the team

Oladipo hasn’t been the same since the injury. He’s just a catch and shoot guy now. Knicks need that but not at that contract or with what the pacers will be asking for

Knixkik wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:While I wouldn't mind that Conley deal. The fact that we are hearing rumors about it tells me that its not going to happen. But it could be purposely floated out there by the Knicks as a negotiation move with OKC for Paul. Showing there are other routes Knicks could take. Or by Utah to draw up interest in Conley.

I think there’s a reasonable chance we end up with Paul or Conley.

Don’t want Conley. Do want Paul

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I think the Raptors would offer that to him, and the suns would probably bid a bit more/offer a sign and trade with Rubio

TripleThreat wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:Randle to the Jazz is not necessary about roster fit for the Jazz but maybe more of a cap space move for them, giving them more room to make more moves to improve for next year.

Well, it will be interesting to see what develops through the offseason. It seems the front office would like to make a splash and change the roster significantly.

Mirror Test this. If the Knicks had Conley, would they trade him for Randle?

Randle is a no defense ball stopper who doesn't protect the rim. He clogs the Jazz's floor spacing. And while Conley is old and overpaid, he still fills a role for them. He also has a 4 million dollar buyout in that team option year.

Adding Randle is a net negative with a walk year tax that creates a new hole on your roster.

Your premise is what? All things being equal?

That isn't the case. Utah needs to be fiscally responsible, moreso than the Knicks. You already know this. We aren't talking about a basketball trade. We're talking pure economics.

IFF the Knicks had the same budget considerations you do a trade. If these teams are bargaining, Utah should look to trade into some useful players who would fill needs that are more expensive on the open market. Conley and a swap of late picks works for both teams.

Cap space teams

Six NBA teams project to have cap space at $109 million. They just project to have a little bit less than originally thought.

Atlanta Hawks: $43.2 million

New York Knicks: $41.5 million

Detroit Pistons: $28.2 million

Charlotte Hornets: $22.5 million

Miami Heat: $20.9 million

Phoenix Suns: $18.9 million

The first four teams will assuredly seek to be players this offseason. The Hawks are hoping to make the jump to being a playoff team. The Knicks are perpetually rebuilding, this time with a new front office in place. The Pistons have kicked off a rebuild, but still have some big enough salaries that they could look for a quick turnaround. And the Hornets feel they aren’t far from being a playoff team.

The Heat are already making waves that they could choose to roll over their space to the summer of 2021. This could include re-signing their own free agents to big one-year deals. The Suns could choose to do the same. The reason why is twofold. First, the free-agent class projects to be far better in 2021 than this summer. The second reason is that we’ll hopefully be in a more normal cap environment next summer. That means space could go much further in 2021 vs. 2020.
Luxury tax teams

While cap space teams won’t change much in this scenario, tax teams could change quite a bit. A projected cap of $115 million comes with a luxury tax at about $139 million. In that scenario, five to nine teams project to be over the luxury tax. A cap of $109 million carries a tax line of $132.6 million. At those figures, eight to 15 teams project to be over the tax.

The eight teams that are almost guaranteed to be in or around the tax are:

Boston Celtics

Brooklyn Nets

Golden State Warriors

Houston Rockets

Los Angeles Clippers

Los Angeles Lakers

Milwaukee Bucks

Philadelphia 76ers

These teams are already in the tax at $115 million or are very close to it.

The seven teams that could join them, pending roster decisions, are:

Denver Nuggets

Indiana Pacers

Oklahoma City Thunder

Orlando Magic

San Antonio Spurs

Toronto Raptors

Utah Jazz

These teams are probably clear of the tax in the original projection. If the tax line drops, these teams could face difficult decisions on retaining their own free agents and/or using exceptions.

Exception-limited teams

These nine teams are limited to using the non-taxpayer mid-level exception and/or bi-annual exception, whether the cap falls or not.

Chicago Bulls

Cleveland Cavaliers

Dallas Mavericks

Memphis Grizzlies

Minnesota Timberwolves

New Orleans Pelicans

Portland Trail Blazers

Sacramento Kings

Washington Wizards

The challenge these teams face is that they could be looking at approximately $500,000 less to use with the non-taxpayer MLE and almost $200,000 less with the bi-annual. While it’s an even playing field, having that much less to offer could make it hard to land free agents. It may be more enticing for a player to re-sign with his current team than leave for a lower than expected starting salary elsewhere.

1) The Knicks aren't the only team with open cap space

2) The premise relies on this being the best deal for the Jazz, there are other teams in the league. It also relies on this being the best deal for the Knicks to use their open cap space. There are other teams in the league.

3) The premise relies on the league not changing the tax line or the tax structure. If they don't individual teams will likely collapse financially across the intermediate term.

4) The premise relies on the Jazz resigning Clarkson as the only option and Conley as the only cap maneuver possible. They do have his Bird Rights. Is he the player that sparked the team in a contract year? Or is he more the player he's shown in the three years before?

Utah has shown interest in Portis (so maybe Portis instead of Randle), DSJ, Knox...

smackeddog wrote:

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I think the Raptors would offer that to him, and the suns would probably bid a bit more/offer a sign and trade with Rubio

No way Van Vleet is coming here.

Bertans we might have a shot at if we overpay

Philc1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

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I think the Raptors would offer that to him, and the suns would probably bid a bit more/offer a sign and trade with Rubio

No way Van Vleet is coming here.

Bertans we might have a shot at if we overpay

So do the Knicks want Fred or CP3? IMO you can’t really have both.

Allanfan20 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

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I think the Raptors would offer that to him, and the suns would probably bid a bit more/offer a sign and trade with Rubio

No way Van Vleet is coming here.

Bertans we might have a shot at if we overpay

So do the Knicks want Fred or CP3? IMO you can’t really have both.

Probably will cover both bases and see which one is actually possible

not sure i feel about FVV on the KNicks. ON the Raptors, what's not to like? how does he fit with us