Am i the only one who has found the current regime's silence refreshing?
Phil era: everyone had expectations for players and team identity because of Phil himself. Long players who are smart even if not elite athletes, etc. Great plan to some, horrible execution
Mills error: all over the map. First smart two way players, then FA chase, then stopgap. All along the way hubris that we would somehow be smart enough to turn around careers off track. horrible plans and execution
Rose era: i'm clueless. both he and TT have been tight lipped. I haven't heard either give some smoochy-face interview complimenting one of our players (and frankly probably none deserve it; didn't see anyone even comment on RJ's rookie team snub) Many are predicting TT to repeat himself but i'm less sure. pretty much the only comments i've heard him say is how he visited other teams to learn after the Wolves exit. Will he still play the same games/schemes or will we see new wrinkles???
my predictions for what they're worth:
1) players: super competitive, smart guys. No plays off. all minutes are earned. Not necessarily well rounded, See Noah. Guy needs to contribute something, have some impact on same facet of the game
2) PG: i'm far from convinced TT sees Frank as an asset even though TT is thought of as prioritizing defense . Hahn comments. Kris Dunn is a pg who could defend and TT shipped him. Have a tough time seeing him starting a rookie PG and a tough time seeing them pick pg at 8. i expect a vet signing or trade
3) trades: with the possible exception of RJ, i think TT and Rose view everyone else as more than expendable, including Mitch, all turning to price. First, this is probably correct assessment. Second, they're not their picks so no emotional attachment. Third, sending a message of sorts
4) draft. At one point i thought they would pick a guy to help establish an identity. Now i'm less sure because so many of the players are young i don't see that happening easily. Okoro may be an exception but i think he's too small. And i think RJ may fit that role anyway despite his youth: poised but super-competitive.
The knicks have been tight lip handing out Memo's to announce signings and any move they make since Phil.
I'm not sure if they value their young players that have no real NBA value. They have a lot of decisions to make without much time to do it. You essentially have 2 to 3 weeks to draft/trade/signed/renounce the players you want, and 7 to 8 guys that they need to replace.
A weak draft, and weak FA class, and desirable players that we had interest in already on the move. With the way the market is around the NBA for decent talent, it's kind of hard to predict what their thinking really is.
The good thing is you wont have to wait long to find out...Tic Toc your on the the clock.
I really wanted Bogdan
Well, they are absolutely dodging the MSM trap of tipping their hand as to who they might draft. That way there's no snickering, media hamster dancing when the desired pick gets chosen just before the Knicks.
With 8 the Knicks can say this is exactly who we wanted and nobody can second-guess.
The knicks silence during the start Of the trading season is very alarming. I have a gut feeling that their big move will come on draft day- moving up to the top 3 spot and trading away RJ for laMelo or trading away Mitch to get Wiseman. The knicks are notorious in pulling off sone head scratcher of moves. The front office will make a grand entrance by trading up and trading away one of their most promising player for an unproven player.
I hate to say it but my crystal ball shows Obi Toppin. I hope not but that would be such a Knick move.
I dont know Allan, if the knicks end up drafting Obi toppin, i think they are going into this situation with both eyes open. His defensive deficiency is well documented. Perrin does his homework. Thibs is a defense first kind of coach. I think they have done extensive research on Toppin to make a sound choice if the knicks end up with Obi
Funny how we all read the same stuff but interpret differently. Great fun.
I’m as intrigued as anyone to the lack of “rumors” but even when supplied were mostly inaccurate.
So we sit and wait.
Since we (with some justification) to undervalue I get where the Rainman comes in on this but its not important what we think. Its the reality that plays out on the court.
Most of us will get mad with small moves.
Most of us will get mad with a big splash1
Most of us will get mad with little to no trade activity.
Mostly we mad at ourselves for being Knick Fans!!111
I don't like Toppin's defense and I doubt it can be fixed imo but he'd technically be the BPA by quite a bit so you'd have to take him unless Okoro was on the board
Allanfan20 wrote:I hate to say it but my crystal ball shows Obi Toppin. I hope not but that would be such a Knick move.
i'd be intrigued. We've seen guys who are spectacularly good on one end get quite qood on the other (e.g., Klay, Kawhi). We've also see tne opposite
some think Okoro will develop a shot; other may see Obi developing on D.
personally i'm hoping for someone who can impact some aspect of the game. I don't want a jack of all trades master of none type at 8
Allanfan20 wrote:I hate to say it but my crystal ball shows Obi Toppin. I hope not but that would be such a Knick move.
Obi's defense or lack thereof will prevent teams from drafting him in the top 3, but @ 8, he is great value. He will be the best offensive player on this team the moment he is drafted. Every single player that will be drafted 1-60 comes with major question marks and red flags...Not many can step right in and drop 20 pts on December 23rd.
Uptown wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:I hate to say it but my crystal ball shows Obi Toppin. I hope not but that would be such a Knick move.
Obi's defense or lack thereof will prevent teams from drafting him in the top 3, but @ 8, he is great value. He will be the best offensive player on this team the moment he is drafted. Every single player that will be drafted 1-60 comes with major question marks and red flags...Not many can step right in and drop 20 pts on December 23rd.
Hey, if he develops any defensive game then he could be a superstar. I feel like a lot of players in this draft have that one missing piece preventing them from entering stardom.
At the very least, Toppin looks like Amar’e on both offense and defense!
Allanfan20 wrote:Uptown wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:I hate to say it but my crystal ball shows Obi Toppin. I hope not but that would be such a Knick move.
Obi's defense or lack thereof will prevent teams from drafting him in the top 3, but @ 8, he is great value. He will be the best offensive player on this team the moment he is drafted. Every single player that will be drafted 1-60 comes with major question marks and red flags...Not many can step right in and drop 20 pts on December 23rd.
Hey, if he develops any defensive game then he could be a superstar. I feel like a lot of players in this draft have that one missing piece preventing them from entering stardom.
At the very least, Toppin looks like Amar’e on both offense and defense!
Unfortunately you just can't learn the footwork and defensive IQ that the Amare/Obi types don't already have
martin wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Uptown wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:I hate to say it but my crystal ball shows Obi Toppin. I hope not but that would be such a Knick move.
Obi's defense or lack thereof will prevent teams from drafting him in the top 3, but @ 8, he is great value. He will be the best offensive player on this team the moment he is drafted. Every single player that will be drafted 1-60 comes with major question marks and red flags...Not many can step right in and drop 20 pts on December 23rd.
Hey, if he develops any defensive game then he could be a superstar. I feel like a lot of players in this draft have that one missing piece preventing them from entering stardom.
At the very least, Toppin looks like Amar’e on both offense and defense!
Unfortunately you just can't learn the footwork and defensive IQ that the Amare/Obi types don't already have
Correct. Kind of like shooting, that can just go on unlearned.
still perplexed how so many are down on Obi but fine with Okoro. two different sides of the same coin.
i'd be more than fine with Obi under the circumstances -- though still want a shooter. If TT thinks Okoro is a form of Butler 2.0 fine with that too but his size and shot scare me more than Obi's lack of D
Chandler wrote:
still perplexed how so many are down on Obi but fine with Okoro. two different sides of the same coin.i'd be more than fine with Obi under the circumstances -- though still want a shooter. If TT thinks Okoro is a form of Butler 2.0 fine with that too but his size and shot scare me more than Obi's lack of D
Because teams are damn near averaging 120 ppg, so There is a much higher premium on scorers then defensive players
Chandler wrote:
still perplexed how so many are down on Obi but fine with Okoro. two different sides of the same coin.i'd be more than fine with Obi under the circumstances -- though still want a shooter. If TT thinks Okoro is a form of Butler 2.0 fine with that too but his size and shot scare me more than Obi's lack of D
I agree. I've been in the Okoro camp at 8 for a while, but if Obi is there, you take him without a second thought. You have to be able to score points in todays game and Obi is one of the best all around offensive bigs in this draft. In fact, he would be the Knicks best all around scorer the moment puts on a uniform.
Knicks are far from a finished product so we can add players to the team that can compliment or cover his weaknesses.
Uptown wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:I hate to say it but my crystal ball shows Obi Toppin. I hope not but that would be such a Knick move.
Obi's defense or lack thereof will prevent teams from drafting him in the top 3, but @ 8, he is great value. He will be the best offensive player on this team the moment he is drafted. Every single player that will be drafted 1-60 comes with major question marks and red flags...Not many can step right in and drop 20 pts on December 23rd.
He's also a good long term fit next to Mitch who may or may not be offensively retarded, jury is out. We do know on offense that front line would be wildly athletic, absolutely insane in transition...
My dream draft day would be Obi falls to us at 8 and we are able to move up and add Maxsey somehow. Frank and Mitch are experienced enough to play meaningful defensive roles in whatever Thibs comes up with next year. RJ has the motor, size and desire but has a lot to learn on both sides of the ball. Still VERY high on RJ to become something like a Caron Butler/Jimmy Butler hybrid. Adding Obi/Maxsey would inject elite speed in the formula.
Obi has the chops to be a top tier scorer. You just cant ask for more at 8. I like him more than Ball/Edwards in the top of the draft. I would want no part of those guys if I am picking in the top 3.
Obi's inside outside + power/speed game reminds me of Larry Johnson coming out of UNLV playing for the Hornets. LJ was strong and Obi is longer but they both could just overwhelm you anywhere.
I dont see anyway he gets past the Hawks or Cavs but who knows? There are some mocks that him his dropping. If some of these teams fall in love with Patrick WIlliams or the euro kid Deni than Obi could drop. What a phucking stroke of luck that would be IMO
Uptown wrote:Chandler wrote:
still perplexed how so many are down on Obi but fine with Okoro. two different sides of the same coin.i'd be more than fine with Obi under the circumstances -- though still want a shooter. If TT thinks Okoro is a form of Butler 2.0 fine with that too but his size and shot scare me more than Obi's lack of D
I agree. I've been in the Okoro camp at 8 for a while, but if Obi is there, you take him without a second thought. You have to be able to score points in todays game and Obi is one of the best all around offensive bigs in this draft. In fact, he would be the Knicks best all around scorer the moment puts on a uniform.
Knicks are far from a finished product so we can add players to the team that can compliment or cover his weaknesses.
I want no part of Okoro at 8. Would rather reach a bit for Kira Lewis add a burner who can score.
Also I view Bullock as one of the veterans worth keeping around. He plays really does and has great intangibles like fighting over screens and setting picks/screens. Okoro reminds me too much of Justice Winslow
Chandler wrote:
still perplexed how so many are down on Obi but fine with Okoro. two different sides of the same coin.i'd be more than fine with Obi under the circumstances -- though still want a shooter. If TT thinks Okoro is a form of Butler 2.0 fine with that too but his size and shot scare me more than Obi's lack of D
Okoro has weaknesses on offense, but he's not a complete nonthreat on that end. Plus, he has the potential to get much better. Obi might be one of the worse defenders picked in the lottery I've ever seen. And his limitations on that end don't seem like they're going to improve much on that end.
fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:Chandler wrote:
still perplexed how so many are down on Obi but fine with Okoro. two different sides of the same coin.i'd be more than fine with Obi under the circumstances -- though still want a shooter. If TT thinks Okoro is a form of Butler 2.0 fine with that too but his size and shot scare me more than Obi's lack of D
I agree. I've been in the Okoro camp at 8 for a while, but if Obi is there, you take him without a second thought. You have to be able to score points in todays game and Obi is one of the best all around offensive bigs in this draft. In fact, he would be the Knicks best all around scorer the moment puts on a uniform.
Knicks are far from a finished product so we can add players to the team that can compliment or cover his weaknesses.
I want no part of Okoro at 8. Would rather reach a bit for Kira Lewis add a burner who can score. Also I view Bullock as one of the veterans worth keeping around. He plays really does and has great intangibles like fighting over screens and setting picks/screens. Okoro reminds me too much of Justice Winslow
Okoro also comps well with guys like Butler and Artest. Truth is, Okoro is an athletic outlier and your not going to find a complete comp.
fishmike wrote:Uptown wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:I hate to say it but my crystal ball shows Obi Toppin. I hope not but that would be such a Knick move.
Obi's defense or lack thereof will prevent teams from drafting him in the top 3, but @ 8, he is great value. He will be the best offensive player on this team the moment he is drafted. Every single player that will be drafted 1-60 comes with major question marks and red flags...Not many can step right in and drop 20 pts on December 23rd.
He's also a good long term fit next to Mitch who may or may not be offensively retarded, jury is out. We do know on offense that front line would be wildly athletic, absolutely insane in transition... My dream draft day would be Obi falls to us at 8 and we are able to move up and add Maxsey somehow. Frank and Mitch are experienced enough to play meaningful defensive roles in whatever Thibs comes up with next year. RJ has the motor, size and desire but has a lot to learn on both sides of the ball. Still VERY high on RJ to become something like a Caron Butler/Jimmy Butler hybrid. Adding Obi/Maxsey would inject elite speed in the formula.
Obi has the chops to be a top tier scorer. You just cant ask for more at 8. I like him more than Ball/Edwards in the top of the draft. I would want no part of those guys if I am picking in the top 3.
Obi's inside outside + power/speed game reminds me of Larry Johnson coming out of UNLV playing for the Hornets. LJ was strong and Obi is longer but they both could just overwhelm you anywhere.
I dont see anyway he gets past the Hawks or Cavs but who knows? There are some mocks that him his dropping. If some of these teams fall in love with Patrick WIlliams or the euro kid Deni than Obi could drop. What a phucking stroke of luck that would be IMO
I pretty much agree with everything you said here...As uncertain as most of these prospects are, one thing is for certain, Obi will be one of if not the best scorer in the class baring injury.
Would love to add Obi and Maxey to this team as they would force us to play faster and we would be more athletic. But, I can't see Obi being available at 8 and I definitely don't see Maxey still being on the board at 23. I think the purpose of the trade today was to package both 8 and 23 to move up and grab Obi. Possibly at 5 with the Cavs pick.
