Shaq at the same age was not a “Thick” as Zion. That he played well into his 30’s was a genetic wonder given his size. Google Shaq rookie year.
Obi = Zion+ next to RJ. Yeah, okay.
I mean, I get the attempt at sunshine given there was nothing going on in FA for us, but let's not go all Steve Novak on this.
Love that he wants to be here though. And if his "My man Thibs is going to mold my weakling D into monster D" is legit, I'm happy.
jrodmc wrote:Obi = Zion+ next to RJ. Yeah, okay.
I mean, I get the attempt at sunshine given there was nothing going on in FA for us, but let's not go all Steve Novak on this.
Love that he wants to be here though. And if his "My man Thibs is going to mold my weakling D into monster D" is legit, I'm happy.
Heh heh heh -- "let's not go all Steve Novak" should be the new catch phrase : ) Though I tried it on my girfriend earlier and she just looked at me cross eyed.
KnickDanger wrote:jrodmc wrote:Obi = Zion+ next to RJ. Yeah, okay.
I mean, I get the attempt at sunshine given there was nothing going on in FA for us, but let's not go all Steve Novak on this.
Love that he wants to be here though. And if his "My man Thibs is going to mold my weakling D into monster D" is legit, I'm happy.
Heh heh heh -- "let's not go all Steve Novak" should be the new catch phrase : ) Though I tried it on my girfriend earlier and she just looked at me cross eyed.
But did you do the swagtastic discount double check at her? 
jrodmc wrote:KnickDanger wrote:jrodmc wrote:Obi = Zion+ next to RJ. Yeah, okay.
I mean, I get the attempt at sunshine given there was nothing going on in FA for us, but let's not go all Steve Novak on this.
Love that he wants to be here though. And if his "My man Thibs is going to mold my weakling D into monster D" is legit, I'm happy.
Heh heh heh -- "let's not go all Steve Novak" should be the new catch phrase : ) Though I tried it on my girfriend earlier and she just looked at me cross eyed.
But did you do the swagtastic at her?
i'm going to need to work that into my repertoire!
Nalod wrote:Shaq at the same age was not a “Thick” as Zion. That he played well into his 30’s was a genetic wonder given his size. Google Shaq rookie year.
Shaq's knees may be ok, but his back is jacked. Have you seen the way he moves now? It because his game was physical and he didn't use that explosiveness in his knees as much as he used his size and physicality.
Genetics play a huge roll in repetitive motion injuries, In regards to why Houston's knees were shot and Allan's weren't. There are so many variables. Also I think Rip and Reggie are in a different conversation because they are so much lighter than Ray Allen and Houston.
Nalod wrote:Shaq at the same age was not a “Thick” as Zion. That he played well into his 30’s was a genetic wonder given his size. Google Shaq rookie year.
Shaq didn’t fill out into the big beast we all remember him as until his 4th year in the league. He was lean his first couple years in the league
It was also much more of a half-court league back then. Way less full court running which helped Shaq’s longevity
Reading the latest articles about Obi-1 got me thinking: he has legit size and length to play a big man game (6’9” height, 7’2” wingspan vs Zion’s 6’6” height 6’10.5” span). Zion’s teams will tend to play with a size deficit and will have to make up size at other positions.
Nalod wrote:Shaq at the same age was not a “Thick” as Zion. That he played well into his 30’s was a genetic wonder given his size. Google Shaq rookie year.
Shaq is a 7fter, cant really compare the two.
Shaq wasnt as big as a rook, but he was still one of the "thicker" centers in the league at the time. It was his combination of size and quickness which made him so intimidating. We didnt have to wait years to see that. He was built more like a 3 or 4, than an old school center.
Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Shaq at the same age was not a “Thick” as Zion. That he played well into his 30’s was a genetic wonder given his size. Google Shaq rookie year.
Shaq didn’t fill out into the big beast we all remember him as until his 4th year in the league. He was lean his first couple years in the league
It was also much more of a half-court league back then. Way less full court running which helped Shaq’s longevity
Actually Shaq and Penny ran their share of fastbreaks back in the day. What fans hadnt seen before was a center who was so mobile. That he was able to lead the fast break at times.
Surprisingly Shaq could handle the demands of uptempo b-ball better than Penny could long term. They were one of the best one/two punches in NBA history. Sorry to see it end so soon.
Looks like at the very least conditioning won't be an issue for Toppin. Berman reported he's wowing the team with conditioning. We know that's not a strong suit of Zion as conditioning is always a major concern of his, so in that sense we are better off with Obi at the very least.
If Obi proves to be able to play competent defense (big if!), then he really could be just as dominating on offense. He does not have Zion’s power, but he is a better outside shooter and he is just as effective in pick and roll situations. Zion clearly is better but, if Obi can find his defense, he would not be that much of a step down. Time will tell.
Shaq was not the brick shithouse until age 24-25 and he was amazing all thru his career.
Zion is a freak. Reminds me too much of a young start NFL running back who kills it in college, gets all the awards,, then replicates it in the NFL for a few years but by age 25 one injury and they worn out. The genetics of power.
Zion is incomparable at age 19-20. His motor, prey drive, and ability to fly has not been seen before. Is it sustainable?
Shaq and Lebron started life not quite as thick as this kid. Zion is not fat. This is about muscle mass, tendons and its relationship with his bones.
As for the thread the question is: “Should we be excited about our two young guys??” If Obi was taken 1st or second and perhaps had a run to the final 4 might we be all excited? Perhaps. That he fell to 8th and he is 22 diminish the potential? Are we over looking our starphuch that is staring us in the face? RJ and Obi!!!
We might be. Fans are not very creative as we like to extrapolate the past into the present. We read from ourselves “I’m not sold on.......” frequently. Well if it has not happened yet you can’t be “sold”. Potential is a hard pill to swallow. Because the knicks history its hard to drink the kool aid to wash it down.
This is a good thread topic and its not really about Zion. Its about Obi. IF you think of RJ and all you can muster is his FT% and worried about his 3pt % your not focusing on his elite ability to finish at the rim for a teenager. Rare. That level of athletic ability is not something thats easier to build as is his shot which is not that terrible at all.
Will it come together this year? I don’t know. Right now Frank and Dennis have the 4th year urgency to show something. Kevin has 2 more years. This new mitch stuff about not being focused is something new.
Nalod wrote:Shaq was not the brick shithouse until age 24-25 and he was amazing all thru his career.
Zion is a freak. Reminds me too much of a young start NFL running back who kills it in college, gets all the awards,, then replicates it in the NFL for a few years but by age 25 one injury and they worn out. The genetics of power.
Zion is incomparable at age 19-20. His motor, prey drive, and ability to fly has not been seen before. Is it sustainable?
Shaq and Lebron started life not quite as thick as this kid. Zion is not fat. This is about muscle mass, tendons and its relationship with his bones. As for the thread the question is: “Should we be excited about our two young guys??” If Obi was taken 1st or second and perhaps had a run to the final 4 might we be all excited? Perhaps. That he fell to 8th and he is 22 diminish the potential? Are we over looking our starphuch that is staring us in the face? RJ and Obi!!!
We might be. Fans are not very creative as we like to extrapolate the past into the present. We read from ourselves “I’m not sold on.......” frequently. Well if it has not happened yet you can’t be “sold”. Potential is a hard pill to swallow. Because the knicks history its hard to drink the kool aid to wash it down.
This is a good thread topic and its not really about Zion. Its about Obi. IF you think of RJ and all you can muster is his FT% and worried about his 3pt % your not focusing on his elite ability to finish at the rim for a teenager. Rare. That level of athletic ability is not something thats easier to build as is his shot which is not that terrible at all.
Will it come together this year? I don’t know. Right now Frank and Dennis have the 4th year urgency to show something. Kevin has 2 more years. This new mitch stuff about not being focused is something new.
The 82 game seasons are going to be too much for Zion’s knees
TheGame wrote:If Obi proves to be able to play competent defense (big if!), then he really could be just as dominating on offense. He does not have Zion’s power, but he is a better outside shooter and he is just as effective in pick and roll situations. Zion clearly is better but, if Obi can find his defense, he would not be that much of a step down. Time will tell.
Obi is still pretty powerful in his own right. Already has an nba body at 22. For him to really be successful at least offensively he has to be able to hit 3’s at around the same percentage he did in college (39%)
While he’s not a good defender he can block shots so it will be fun watching him and Mitch swat
Philc1 wrote:TheGame wrote:If Obi proves to be able to play competent defense (big if!), then he really could be just as dominating on offense. He does not have Zion’s power, but he is a better outside shooter and he is just as effective in pick and roll situations. Zion clearly is better but, if Obi can find his defense, he would not be that much of a step down. Time will tell.
Obi is still pretty powerful in his own right. Already has an nba body at 22. For him to really be successful at least offensively he has to be able to hit 3’s at around the same percentage he did in college (39%)
While he’s not a good defender he can block shots so it will be fun watching him and Mitch swat
I know we all saw those videos but if he is this “Athletic freak” then I suppose he has the physical tools to be a decent defender. If he has to think it will hold him back a bit. Knox I think got messed up by improving on defense and finishing strong to the rim. It hurt his shooting.
Zion does not have to play 82 games. He has to learn to dial it down a bit for the grind.
You can't compare zion to shaq. Shaq was like wilt. Dude defies logic. Zion as much as I like him I don't think will last that long unless he controls his weight.
NYKBocker wrote:You can't compare zion to shaq. Shaq was like wilt. Dude defies logic. Zion as much as I like him I don't think will last that long unless he controls his weight.
One guy is an all time great and the other guy won rookie of the year. You can't compare careers. But, I can look at their stats, compare their rookie years and tell you they're comparable. You could also make a case that Zion was better. I wouldn't because Zion played fewer games, but the case is their: https://stathead.com/tiny/dagxI
Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:TheGame wrote:If Obi proves to be able to play competent defense (big if!), then he really could be just as dominating on offense. He does not have Zion’s power, but he is a better outside shooter and he is just as effective in pick and roll situations. Zion clearly is better but, if Obi can find his defense, he would not be that much of a step down. Time will tell.
Obi is still pretty powerful in his own right. Already has an nba body at 22. For him to really be successful at least offensively he has to be able to hit 3’s at around the same percentage he did in college (39%)
While he’s not a good defender he can block shots so it will be fun watching him and Mitch swat
I know we all saw those videos but if he is this “Athletic freak” then I suppose he has the physical tools to be a decent defender. If he has to think it will hold him back a bit. Knox I think got messed up by improving on defense and finishing strong to the rim. It hurt his shooting.
Zion does not have to play 82 games. He has to learn to dial it down a bit for the grind.
If Zion is playing 40-50 games a year while on a minutes restriction that’s a problem
Obi’s problems on defense are fixable but it will take time. He has length and lateral quickness. He needs to fix his footwork and timing.
Knox has zero lateral quickness which is why he will always be a defensive liability
Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:TheGame wrote:If Obi proves to be able to play competent defense (big if!), then he really could be just as dominating on offense. He does not have Zion’s power, but he is a better outside shooter and he is just as effective in pick and roll situations. Zion clearly is better but, if Obi can find his defense, he would not be that much of a step down. Time will tell.
Obi is still pretty powerful in his own right. Already has an nba body at 22. For him to really be successful at least offensively he has to be able to hit 3’s at around the same percentage he did in college (39%)
While he’s not a good defender he can block shots so it will be fun watching him and Mitch swat
I know we all saw those videos but if he is this “Athletic freak” then I suppose he has the physical tools to be a decent defender. If he has to think it will hold him back a bit. Knox I think got messed up by improving on defense and finishing strong to the rim. It hurt his shooting.
Zion does not have to play 82 games. He has to learn to dial it down a bit for the grind.
If Zion is playing 40-50 games a year while on a minutes restriction that’s a problem
Obi’s problems on defense are fixable but it will take time. He has length and lateral quickness. He needs to fix his footwork and timing.
Knox has zero lateral quickness which is why he will always be a defensive liability
I don’t put the word “Always” on any player under 22. Knox was too young to come into the league. His feel were like too big, and he was not developed. I’m not saying he can be DPOTY but perhaps good enough for Thibs.
Zion’s issues are not his weight. Its his mass. Kid is not fat. He can fly but is not built for it. Nobody really is but question is how do you reduce a body mass of muscle that is naturally his propensity?
Does he have the tendons and ligaments to sustain that mass in the way he moves about? Issue with the 7footers is the length of those tendons and they don’t sustain. That Zions Legs are thick might really be the key but he has to stay closer to the ground! He can take up a lot of space still and be an allstar! His injury in college was indicative of what the issue is. Both God and Nike cannot sustain that force that he generates. He is a phenomenal athlete. This is a Lawrence Taylor type of generational athlete.
Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:TheGame wrote:If Obi proves to be able to play competent defense (big if!), then he really could be just as dominating on offense. He does not have Zion’s power, but he is a better outside shooter and he is just as effective in pick and roll situations. Zion clearly is better but, if Obi can find his defense, he would not be that much of a step down. Time will tell.
Obi is still pretty powerful in his own right. Already has an nba body at 22. For him to really be successful at least offensively he has to be able to hit 3’s at around the same percentage he did in college (39%)
While he’s not a good defender he can block shots so it will be fun watching him and Mitch swat
I know we all saw those videos but if he is this “Athletic freak” then I suppose he has the physical tools to be a decent defender. If he has to think it will hold him back a bit. Knox I think got messed up by improving on defense and finishing strong to the rim. It hurt his shooting.
Zion does not have to play 82 games. He has to learn to dial it down a bit for the grind.
If Zion is playing 40-50 games a year while on a minutes restriction that’s a problem
Obi’s problems on defense are fixable but it will take time. He has length and lateral quickness. He needs to fix his footwork and timing.
Knox has zero lateral quickness which is why he will always be a defensive liability
I don’t put the word “Always” on any player under 22. Knox was too young to come into the league. His feel were like too big, and he was not developed. I’m not saying he can be DPOTY but perhaps good enough for Thibs.
Zion’s issues are not his weight. Its his mass. Kid is not fat. He can fly but is not built for it. Nobody really is but question is how do you reduce a body mass of muscle that is naturally his propensity?
Does he have the tendons and ligaments to sustain that mass in the way he moves about? Issue with the 7footers is the length of those tendons and they don’t sustain. That Zions Legs are thick might really be the key but he has to stay closer to the ground! He can take up a lot of space still and be an allstar! His injury in college was indicative of what the issue is. Both God and Nike cannot sustain that force that he generates. He is a phenomenal athlete. This is a Lawrence Taylor type of generational athlete.
Eeeehhhhhh he’s a bit gynoid fat. His stomach is very lean but he definitely has a lot of weight in his hips and ass. You’re right about his mass and tendons though. Hopefully he’ll find a way to sustain the pounding he puts in his joints. I am a big fan of his game and he seems like a good kid.
Hopefully Topin doesn’t suffer the Amar’e fate!
