Knicks · Obi toppin looks like a tweener (page 3)

MS wrote:It’s unbelievably hard as a big to excel without a true point guard. Let’s bleed the breaks a little bit.

I would imagine he will be included in a trade with Mitch, Knox and a couple of first for Towns at some point. But the right pick was Halliburton, from a cultural standpoint and even a stabilization standpoint.

Obi is a nice player, but those guys come around a lot. Collins, Bagley, etc.

Vessel was the safe pick, like Mikaal Bridges was two years ago. Locking in a starter for a decade is big luxury. Especially with this years draft upcoming.

Yeah, I don't see Vassell as a difference maker in the league. You can find players like him anywhere. If we're going to overreact to one game why isn't anybody talking about Haliburton's first game?

jskinny35 wrote:I think it's a valid concern (being a good or bad fit). Concern doesn't mean it can't work - but it's clear we have too much of an outside shooting void when Mitch/Randle is playing with Obi... He's super talented and a hard worker - so he will likely turn into a productive player. The point is if we are considering RJ a player to build around - we do need more shooting to maximize the talent we have on the floor. I was all in for Vassell but that ship has sailed. Having Randle and Mitch being lousy or non-existant outside shooters only magnifies the focus/need of the current NBA. Now Obi could break out and we shift gears to prioritize him but currently it does seem like a poor fit. Best case - we move Randle and obtain some more outside shooting so playing Obi doesn't accentuate the existing issue. While I was pro-Mitch historically, I would now have to realistically consider the rumored 3 way deal involving the Kings and Celts (lose Mitch, Randle DSJr for Hield, R.Holmes and 2nd round picks). Another way to go would be to obtain that true stretch 4 we thought we were targeting this offseason - Lauri (Chi) is probably available as he reportedly wanted out at the end of last season. Point is it will continue to pose a problem unless we can hide his limitations by greatly increasing our shooting capacity.

I just want the team to have some forethought. How do we want to play, and get players that accentuate that style. I feel like we just throw players together and hope it works. If your going to draft players like Knox and Obi, would it not make sense to get a PG that pushes the pace? Playing Elfrid Payton doesn't help anyone. Our two biggest needs this off-season was a SF that could shoot and 2 PG's. I don't think Obi helps Mitch or Barrett get better

Jmpasq wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:I think it's a valid concern (being a good or bad fit). Concern doesn't mean it can't work - but it's clear we have too much of an outside shooting void when Mitch/Randle is playing with Obi... He's super talented and a hard worker - so he will likely turn into a productive player. The point is if we are considering RJ a player to build around - we do need more shooting to maximize the talent we have on the floor. I was all in for Vassell but that ship has sailed. Having Randle and Mitch being lousy or non-existant outside shooters only magnifies the focus/need of the current NBA. Now Obi could break out and we shift gears to prioritize him but currently it does seem like a poor fit. Best case - we move Randle and obtain some more outside shooting so playing Obi doesn't accentuate the existing issue. While I was pro-Mitch historically, I would now have to realistically consider the rumored 3 way deal involving the Kings and Celts (lose Mitch, Randle DSJr for Hield, R.Holmes and 2nd round picks). Another way to go would be to obtain that true stretch 4 we thought we were targeting this offseason - Lauri (Chi) is probably available as he reportedly wanted out at the end of last season. Point is it will continue to pose a problem unless we can hide his limitations by greatly increasing our shooting capacity.

I just want the team to have some forethought. How do we want to play, and get players that accentuate that style. I feel like we just throw players together and hope it works. If your going to draft players like Knox and Obi, would it not make sense to get a PG that pushes the pace? Playing Elfrid Payton doesn't help anyone. Our two biggest needs this off-season was a SF that could shoot and 2 PG's. I don't think Obi helps Mitch or Barrett get better

Barrett doesn’t need a pg to get better but you’re 100% on the other players.

Well, looking at the bright side:
Knicks picked who they thought was the best player in Obi. On the team as constructed, (esp with Randle on board) he may need some adjustment time. We've seen some good flashes from him.
* he's pretty active on defense.
* he can put the ball on the floor a little
* he can shoot from the perimeter
* he moves without the ball and sees the openings for cheap shots around the basket
* he is a very confident passer

I think we'll eventually see him put it all together in a cohesive game. We're 1 game into the season.

Separately, we did improve at PG and SF:
We picked up exactly the PG we need (and possible an absolute steal) in Quickley. It's scary, though, how much of a perceived impact he has on our play. The fact we notice it so much really speaks to how much of a skill deficit we have at PG.

Burks gives us some nice skill at the wing position. He's 29, and perhaps is a little out of our ideal champion window - but he'll help our players develop. He does a bit of everything well - no glaring deficiencies in his game.

BigDaddyG wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

ItalianStallion wrote:The problem with Obi is that he did most of his scoring in college by being bigger, stronger, and more athletic than the 18-19 year olds he was playing against. He would leak out, cut to the hoop, dunk etc... The pros are bigger, stronger, and more athletic than college kids and take away almost all the leak out fast break dunks. The Knicks needed a STRETCH PF to help create space for Robinson and Barrett. Instead they got a more athletic version of Randle that does most of his work inside. That's not a good fit because we already have problems with spacing. You can see how that impacts Randle and RJ negatively all the time. Unless Obi can stretch his game out to the NBA 3 point line, I'm not sure he was worth the 8th pick for this team. It's just not a good fit. It's way too early to panic. He's only 22 and is said to be a workaholic. But these are the issues.

Yep, you got it. The thing is I keep seeing Obi labeled as a stretch 4 when thats not his game at all. He isn't the outside shooter he was made out to be before the draft. Bad fit with Mitch and a bad fit with RJ.

Come on man let’s give it more than a game before labeling g him a bad fit 😂. It was his first nba game

Yeah, I'd say Obi's real problem is that here are fans ready to jump on one rookie's sack and call another rookie a bust after one game. Remember how bad RJ looked his first couple of SL games and much better he looked his first pro game? Obi didn't even SL.

ItalianStallion that's a very good observation, It was also mention in the Pacers telecast that he had never attempted 7 treys in any one game.

I stated before the draft I always prefer fit over Talent. I rather have a player that fits snug and compliments his teammates, than a player you have to make all kinds of adjustments in order for him to fit.

An overreaction is concluding Obi's a bust after one game - that's crazy and not what is being said. Obi was clearly the best talent available so can understand why the Knicks selected him. We are so void of talent that maybe we do have to pick that way (at the moment) - hopefully we can accumulate enough talent to develop a style of play and then start selecting players that fit the system/talent we already have. Obi's style of play does not seem to be a good fit with Randle, Mitch and the fact that we have little outside shooting. I do think he will become a very good player - maybe even a star like Amare... but right now I do understand the concern when you see him standing on the perimeter hoisting multiple threes because Randle is in the paint and/or Mitch can't shoot from outside. I also agree he looks a little smaller next to the NBA players and seems like he dominated college based on exceptional athletic talent and hard work. Maybe he replicates the collegiate dominance and we shift to building around him at some point. But the concern is still valid that we have a bunch of mismatched parts and are praying that some stick and play well together. Hopefully the Knicks have a plan but cannot see a positive future with both Mitch and Randle playing with Obi (unless Mitch develops an outside/face up game) long-term.

BRIGGS wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:I think it's a valid concern (being a good or bad fit). Concern doesn't mean it can't work - but it's clear we have too much of an outside shooting void when Mitch/Randle is playing with Obi... He's super talented and a hard worker - so he will likely turn into a productive player. The point is if we are considering RJ a player to build around - we do need more shooting to maximize the talent we have on the floor. I was all in for Vassell but that ship has sailed. Having Randle and Mitch being lousy or non-existant outside shooters only magnifies the focus/need of the current NBA. Now Obi could break out and we shift gears to prioritize him but currently it does seem like a poor fit. Best case - we move Randle and obtain some more outside shooting so playing Obi doesn't accentuate the existing issue. While I was pro-Mitch historically, I would now have to realistically consider the rumored 3 way deal involving the Kings and Celts (lose Mitch, Randle DSJr for Hield, R.Holmes and 2nd round picks). Another way to go would be to obtain that true stretch 4 we thought we were targeting this offseason - Lauri (Chi) is probably available as he reportedly wanted out at the end of last season. Point is it will continue to pose a problem unless we can hide his limitations by greatly increasing our shooting capacity.

I just want the team to have some forethought. How do we want to play, and get players that accentuate that style. I feel like we just throw players together and hope it works. If your going to draft players like Knox and Obi, would it not make sense to get a PG that pushes the pace? Playing Elfrid Payton doesn't help anyone. Our two biggest needs this off-season was a SF that could shoot and 2 PG's. I don't think Obi helps Mitch or Barrett get better

Barrett doesn’t need a pg to get better but you’re 100% on the other players.

Barrett just needs guards next to him who can shoot and find the open man so help defense doesn’t just clog the lane against Barrett.

Jmpasq wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:I think it's a valid concern (being a good or bad fit). Concern doesn't mean it can't work - but it's clear we have too much of an outside shooting void when Mitch/Randle is playing with Obi... He's super talented and a hard worker - so he will likely turn into a productive player. The point is if we are considering RJ a player to build around - we do need more shooting to maximize the talent we have on the floor. I was all in for Vassell but that ship has sailed. Having Randle and Mitch being lousy or non-existant outside shooters only magnifies the focus/need of the current NBA. Now Obi could break out and we shift gears to prioritize him but currently it does seem like a poor fit. Best case - we move Randle and obtain some more outside shooting so playing Obi doesn't accentuate the existing issue. While I was pro-Mitch historically, I would now have to realistically consider the rumored 3 way deal involving the Kings and Celts (lose Mitch, Randle DSJr for Hield, R.Holmes and 2nd round picks). Another way to go would be to obtain that true stretch 4 we thought we were targeting this offseason - Lauri (Chi) is probably available as he reportedly wanted out at the end of last season. Point is it will continue to pose a problem unless we can hide his limitations by greatly increasing our shooting capacity.

I just want the team to have some forethought. How do we want to play, and get players that accentuate that style. I feel like we just throw players together and hope it works. If your going to draft players like Knox and Obi, would it not make sense to get a PG that pushes the pace? Playing Elfrid Payton doesn't help anyone. Our two biggest needs this off-season was a SF that could shoot and 2 PG's. I don't think Obi helps Mitch or Barrett get better

Agreed that we need a pg who can push the tempo and excell in the open court if we are going to get best out of Obi and Knox who play better in an uptempo style. But, we need to cut the new front office some slack because you can't build a complete team in one summer. I also feel like That's why Quickley was targeted with our 2nd pick. Im sure a pg is at the top of our list as we go into next season...I honestly feel like Cade, Suggs or Lonzo will be our pg next yr...

Uptown wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:I think it's a valid concern (being a good or bad fit). Concern doesn't mean it can't work - but it's clear we have too much of an outside shooting void when Mitch/Randle is playing with Obi... He's super talented and a hard worker - so he will likely turn into a productive player. The point is if we are considering RJ a player to build around - we do need more shooting to maximize the talent we have on the floor. I was all in for Vassell but that ship has sailed. Having Randle and Mitch being lousy or non-existant outside shooters only magnifies the focus/need of the current NBA. Now Obi could break out and we shift gears to prioritize him but currently it does seem like a poor fit. Best case - we move Randle and obtain some more outside shooting so playing Obi doesn't accentuate the existing issue. While I was pro-Mitch historically, I would now have to realistically consider the rumored 3 way deal involving the Kings and Celts (lose Mitch, Randle DSJr for Hield, R.Holmes and 2nd round picks). Another way to go would be to obtain that true stretch 4 we thought we were targeting this offseason - Lauri (Chi) is probably available as he reportedly wanted out at the end of last season. Point is it will continue to pose a problem unless we can hide his limitations by greatly increasing our shooting capacity.

I just want the team to have some forethought. How do we want to play, and get players that accentuate that style. I feel like we just throw players together and hope it works. If your going to draft players like Knox and Obi, would it not make sense to get a PG that pushes the pace? Playing Elfrid Payton doesn't help anyone. Our two biggest needs this off-season was a SF that could shoot and 2 PG's. I don't think Obi helps Mitch or Barrett get better

Agreed that we need a pg who can push the tempo and excell in the open court if we are going to get best out of Obi and Knox who play better in an uptempo style. But, we need to cut the new front office some slack because you can't build a complete team in one summer. I also feel like That's why Quickley was targeted with our 2nd pick. Im sure a pg is at the top of our list as we go into next season...I honestly feel like Cade, Suggs or Lonzo will be our pg next yr...

. Exactly. Can’t expect them to get everything done in one offseason. The good news is that we have plenty of picks and cap flexibility going forward so most likely we will be getting a pg very soon

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:This is the wildest thread. People really already calling Obi a bad fit ? He was the BPA and a great fit.

Yeah that always annoys me. After one game you can’t make a conclusion one way or the other. He did some good things but also some things he needs to fix. He was probably a bit nervous being his first game.

I was not a fan of Obi’s selection. From both a talent and fit perspective. Having said that Gotta give the rook some time to adjust to the league. He’s going to have to hit the weight room ASAP.

I didn’t like the amount of threes he don’t but there were other things he did which I did like. Look I get it most fans wantEd a pg but the Knicks had obj highest on their board. Plus the odds are we will get a good one in the 2021 draft. I think there is a great chance both our first and the Dallas first will be in pretty good positions. Plus Quickley seems like a guy who flew under the radar and can run an offense at least in the sample size we have seen thus far