EwingsGlass wrote:I mean, if you added Bouknight and Kispert in the 21 draft, you look pretty solid. Quickley/Rivers
Barrett/Burks/Bouknight
Knox/Bullock/Kispert
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel
Biggest issue with this roster is that it must spend like 60mm on 3 roster spots.
And that's the issue Randles deal could cause. I'm glad Randle is stepping up. But realistically, what's the ceiling if Randle is the best player on the team. Eighth seed? Is that where guys want to invest cap space? I'm all for the wait and see approach. Now is the time to start working out to be prepared for all the different scenarios, but we need to see how this team continues to roll before making any substantial plans.
BigDaddyG wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I mean, if you added Bouknight and Kispert in the 21 draft, you look pretty solid. Quickley/Rivers
Barrett/Burks/Bouknight
Knox/Bullock/Kispert
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel
Biggest issue with this roster is that it must spend like 60mm on 3 roster spots.
And that's the issue Randles deal could cause. I'm glad Randle is stepping up. But realistically, what's the ceiling if Randle is the best player on the team. Eighth seed? Is that where guys want to invest cap space? I'm all for the wait and see approach. Now is the time to start working out to be prepared for all the different scenarios, but we need to see how this team continues to roll before making any substantial plans.
You have that team and can still add 3 FAs if you wanted, or are stocked with youth to make a move.
If Randle can control TOs and keep playing like this, he is worth every penny of that 19.8m option. I had no idea he would react like this to the new coaching.
Assume you add Jrue Holiday and Kawhi Leonard to that lineup. Maybe you add Serge Ibaka also with the MLE?
Holiday/Quickley/Rivers
Barrett/Burks/Bouknight
Leonard/Knox/Bullock/Kispert
Randle/Toppin
Ibaka/Robinson/Noel
That could be one of the best defensive teams of all time.
EwingsGlass wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I mean, if you added Bouknight and Kispert in the 21 draft, you look pretty solid. Quickley/Rivers
Barrett/Burks/Bouknight
Knox/Bullock/Kispert
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel
Biggest issue with this roster is that it must spend like 60mm on 3 roster spots.
And that's the issue Randles deal could cause. I'm glad Randle is stepping up. But realistically, what's the ceiling if Randle is the best player on the team. Eighth seed? Is that where guys want to invest cap space? I'm all for the wait and see approach. Now is the time to start working out to be prepared for all the different scenarios, but we need to see how this team continues to roll before making any substantial plans.
You have that team and can still add 3 FAs if you wanted, or are stocked with youth to make a move.
If Randle can control TOs and keep playing like this, he is worth every penny of that 19.8m option. I had no idea he would react like this to the new coaching.
Assume you add Jrue Holiday and Kawhi Leonard to that lineup. Maybe you add Serge Ibaka also with the MLE?
Holiday/Quickley/Rivers
Barrett/Burks/Bouknight
Leonard/Knox/Bullock/Kispert
Randle/Toppin
Ibaka/Robinson/Noel
That could be one of the best defensive teams of all time.
I mean.... that.... that is the best team in the league. Like we would have to win a championship.... jeez.... Wow I never thought a potential lineup could make me so happy
Then this would happen and we would have to let a few of them get taken away..... smh
BigDaddyG wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I mean, if you added Bouknight and Kispert in the 21 draft, you look pretty solid. Quickley/Rivers
Barrett/Burks/Bouknight
Knox/Bullock/Kispert
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel
Biggest issue with this roster is that it must spend like 60mm on 3 roster spots.
And that's the issue Randles deal could cause. I'm glad Randle is stepping up. But realistically, what's the ceiling if Randle is the best player on the team. Eighth seed? Is that where guys want to invest cap space? I'm all for the wait and see approach. Now is the time to start working out to be prepared for all the different scenarios, but we need to see how this team continues to roll before making any substantial plans.
I don't think Randle is the best player on the team - that mantle will fall to Barrett. And I could see Quickly becoming the #2 player on the roster. And we haven't see Obi yet.
So - with Randle as the third best player, yea, I like it!
fishmike wrote:Panos wrote:I think at some point you need to start consolidating some of your assets into better players. You can't play 15 people, and you can't have 25 on the roster (with all the draft picks).
I agree it is always good to keep your draft picks for insurance and cheap production, but at some point you have start making 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 trades to get more power on the floor.
And luckily, since our roster is in good shape, not having to try to dump unreasonable contracts, we should be able to sit down at the table with other teams on a fair footing
instead of having to give up assets to rid ourselves of bad contracts -- meaning we should be able to trade reasonable contracts for reasonable contracts.
I keep looking up and down rosters wondering who the next guy to force a trade or become available and I am not sure I want much part in those deals.Lilliard? 
Gordan Hayward? 
Olidipo? 
Booker? 
Kemba? 
John Wall? 
Westbrook? 
There's just not a ton of choices that either make sense or are very desirable. Keep the picks and use this staff to keep developing guys. Things always change but we have a lot of flexibility and a legit prospect/rotation guy at every position with IQ/RJ/Knox/Obi/Mitch. Lets develop a squad that defends every night and build those guys up (until Booker demands a trader here)
I think Panos is right and we have to look to consolidate up with talent.
Now - perhaps that means we trade our first rounder, the dallas first rounder this year and next to move up in the draft?
We have Frank & DSjr that seem to be on the outside. Time to perhaps trade them now.
franco12 wrote:fishmike wrote:Panos wrote:I think at some point you need to start consolidating some of your assets into better players. You can't play 15 people, and you can't have 25 on the roster (with all the draft picks).
I agree it is always good to keep your draft picks for insurance and cheap production, but at some point you have start making 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 trades to get more power on the floor.
And luckily, since our roster is in good shape, not having to try to dump unreasonable contracts, we should be able to sit down at the table with other teams on a fair footing
instead of having to give up assets to rid ourselves of bad contracts -- meaning we should be able to trade reasonable contracts for reasonable contracts.
I keep looking up and down rosters wondering who the next guy to force a trade or become available and I am not sure I want much part in those deals.Lilliard?
Gordan Hayward?
Olidipo?
Booker?
Kemba?
John Wall?
Westbrook?
There's just not a ton of choices that either make sense or are very desirable. Keep the picks and use this staff to keep developing guys. Things always change but we have a lot of flexibility and a legit prospect/rotation guy at every position with IQ/RJ/Knox/Obi/Mitch. Lets develop a squad that defends every night and build those guys up (until Booker demands a trader here)
I think Panos is right and we have to look to consolidate up with talent.
Now - perhaps that means we trade our first rounder, the dallas first rounder this year and next to move up in the draft?
We have Frank & DSjr that seem to be on the outside. Time to perhaps trade them now.
I agree about consolidating talent, but I also think they will continue to push off draft picks, such as what they are doing getting the 2023 picks. I don't see them keeping all 4 picks in the 2021 draft. Booker is probably the guy I have my eyes on, but it will be a few years. I think LaVine is a more likely target sooner, but we will see. Maybe it will be someone unexpected, but I can always just see them staying patient. They will have to pay Robinson soon, and Randle in a year if they keep him. As much as consolidating talent is necessary, I think we only have a rotations worth of decent players as it is.
C Robinson, F/C Randle, F Toppin, G/F Barrett, G/F Burks, G Rivers, G Quickley
Maybe throw Bullock, Payton, and Noel in there as fringe rotation players but I only think we have 7 guys who are considered real talent right now.
BigDaddyG wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I mean, if you added Bouknight and Kispert in the 21 draft, you look pretty solid. Quickley/Rivers
Barrett/Burks/Bouknight
Knox/Bullock/Kispert
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel
Biggest issue with this roster is that it must spend like 60mm on 3 roster spots.
And that's the issue Randles deal could cause. I'm glad Randle is stepping up. But realistically, what's the ceiling if Randle is the best player on the team. Eighth seed? Is that where guys want to invest cap space? I'm all for the wait and see approach. Now is the time to start working out to be prepared for all the different scenarios, but we need to see how this team continues to roll before making any substantial plans.
the bold is wildy flawed thinking... why does keeping Randle ensure we cant get other good or better players? Is Randle going to keep RJ/Mitch/Obi/IQ or anyone else we draft from being all stars? I dont understand this.
Also Randle is resigned for next year unless you want to pay his $5mm and let him walk. I am pretty sure his option will be picked up and we can figure out what to do in his walk year
Like anything else if there is market interest then we listen to what’s offered.
If not we have a double double machine for now. RJ is our blue chip future, Randle is 26.
Nothing need be over thought for now. Just enjoy what’s in front of you. Its not like other teams don’t know his value, his contract or what our coaches are doing right.
While in no way this a thing but his ascent does make him as a big trade chip easier as long as he agrees to some big extension.
Or he walks for nothing. We got hm for free.
As I did last year, consider him as part of the KP trade. Sub out Dennis for hm and it looks better.
Regardless the outcome, his play at this level is not a bad thing.
If randle keeps this up you have to keep him through his prime years.. we have a 26 yo PF who is nearly averaging a triple double... randle isn’t just playing like a star, he’s playing like a superstar and the best power forward in the league
fitzfarm wrote:If randle keeps this up you have to keep him through his prime years.. we have a 26 yo PF who is nearly averaging a triple double... randle isn’t just playing like a star, he’s playing like a superstar and the best power forward in the league
Agreed. With Randle playing like a star, Barrett playing like a future star, and Robinson, Toppin, and Quickley all having elite role player likely outcomes, I like the foundation here a lot.
fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I mean, if you added Bouknight and Kispert in the 21 draft, you look pretty solid. Quickley/Rivers
Barrett/Burks/Bouknight
Knox/Bullock/Kispert
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel
Biggest issue with this roster is that it must spend like 60mm on 3 roster spots.
And that's the issue Randles deal could cause. I'm glad Randle is stepping up. But realistically, what's the ceiling if Randle is the best player on the team. Eighth seed? Is that where guys want to invest cap space? I'm all for the wait and see approach. Now is the time to start working out to be prepared for all the different scenarios, but we need to see how this team continues to roll before making any substantial plans.
the bold is wildy flawed thinking... why does keeping Randle ensure we cant get other good or better players? Is Randle going to keep RJ/Mitch/Obi/IQ or anyone else we draft from being all stars? I dont understand this.Also Randle is resigned for next year unless you want to pay his $5mm and let him walk. I am pretty sure his option will be picked up and we can figure out what to do in his walk year
OK, but realistically, we're a treadmill team fighting for the 8th spot. Maybe we get lucky? With a draft pick? Maybe RJ, Mitch and Obi pop? Maybe free agency bails them out...which becomes a harder proposition if you extend Mitch and Randle. Big maybes...extending Randle screws with the cap which screws with flexibility. I want the Knicks to have legit shots at titles and not just settle for play in games. I realize baby steps, but you have to factor in the long-term too.
BigDaddyG wrote:fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I mean, if you added Bouknight and Kispert in the 21 draft, you look pretty solid. Quickley/Rivers
Barrett/Burks/Bouknight
Knox/Bullock/Kispert
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel
Biggest issue with this roster is that it must spend like 60mm on 3 roster spots.
And that's the issue Randles deal could cause. I'm glad Randle is stepping up. But realistically, what's the ceiling if Randle is the best player on the team. Eighth seed? Is that where guys want to invest cap space? I'm all for the wait and see approach. Now is the time to start working out to be prepared for all the different scenarios, but we need to see how this team continues to roll before making any substantial plans.
the bold is wildy flawed thinking... why does keeping Randle ensure we cant get other good or better players? Is Randle going to keep RJ/Mitch/Obi/IQ or anyone else we draft from being all stars? I dont understand this.Also Randle is resigned for next year unless you want to pay his $5mm and let him walk. I am pretty sure his option will be picked up and we can figure out what to do in his walk year
OK, but realistically, we're a treadmill team fighting for the 8th spot. Maybe we get lucky? With a draft pick? Maybe RJ, Mitch and Obi pop? Maybe free agency bails them out...which becomes a harder proposition if you extend Mitch and Randle. Big maybes...extending Randle screws with the cap which screws with flexibility. I want the Knicks to have legit shots at titles and not just settle for play in games. I realize baby steps, but you have to factor in the long-term too.
Your right. If Randle is the real deal he can be extended and maybe traded as well. cap space as we all know is not enough. Gotta have the talent around the player.
Maybe we draft to replace Mitch and he is traded? He might be the best chip right now.
All I know is we have to crawl out of this hole and the better our team the more options we have.
Nalod wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I mean, if you added Bouknight and Kispert in the 21 draft, you look pretty solid. Quickley/Rivers
Barrett/Burks/Bouknight
Knox/Bullock/Kispert
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel
Biggest issue with this roster is that it must spend like 60mm on 3 roster spots.
And that's the issue Randles deal could cause. I'm glad Randle is stepping up. But realistically, what's the ceiling if Randle is the best player on the team. Eighth seed? Is that where guys want to invest cap space? I'm all for the wait and see approach. Now is the time to start working out to be prepared for all the different scenarios, but we need to see how this team continues to roll before making any substantial plans.
the bold is wildy flawed thinking... why does keeping Randle ensure we cant get other good or better players? Is Randle going to keep RJ/Mitch/Obi/IQ or anyone else we draft from being all stars? I dont understand this.Also Randle is resigned for next year unless you want to pay his $5mm and let him walk. I am pretty sure his option will be picked up and we can figure out what to do in his walk year
OK, but realistically, we're a treadmill team fighting for the 8th spot. Maybe we get lucky? With a draft pick? Maybe RJ, Mitch and Obi pop? Maybe free agency bails them out...which becomes a harder proposition if you extend Mitch and Randle. Big maybes...extending Randle screws with the cap which screws with flexibility. I want the Knicks to have legit shots at titles and not just settle for play in games. I realize baby steps, but you have to factor in the long-term too.
Your right. If Randle is the real deal he can be extended and maybe traded as well. cap space as we all know is not enough. Gotta have the talent around the player.
Maybe we draft to replace Mitch and he is traded? He might be the best chip right now.
All I know is we have to crawl out of this hole and the better our team the more options we have.
Yes we have to get better, otherwise it's just rinse and repeat. IF Randle does what he's doing or close for the next 2 seasons, we have to pay him. Same with Robinson. The goal should always be to have good players, plenty of draft picks, and maintain 1 max cap slot. If we sign Randle and Robinson we can still leave a max slot open. And hope that we keep getting better and 1 star says he wants to come here and make a difference. But we have to be a good team first.
I think mission accomplished on that. This team looks like it's one superstar away from contending hard in the East. Kawhi would be the perfect fit but there are a few other SFs out there who might elevate the team as well.
Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I mean, if you added Bouknight and Kispert in the 21 draft, you look pretty solid. Quickley/Rivers
Barrett/Burks/Bouknight
Knox/Bullock/Kispert
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel
Biggest issue with this roster is that it must spend like 60mm on 3 roster spots.
And that's the issue Randles deal could cause. I'm glad Randle is stepping up. But realistically, what's the ceiling if Randle is the best player on the team. Eighth seed? Is that where guys want to invest cap space? I'm all for the wait and see approach. Now is the time to start working out to be prepared for all the different scenarios, but we need to see how this team continues to roll before making any substantial plans.
the bold is wildy flawed thinking... why does keeping Randle ensure we cant get other good or better players? Is Randle going to keep RJ/Mitch/Obi/IQ or anyone else we draft from being all stars? I dont understand this.Also Randle is resigned for next year unless you want to pay his $5mm and let him walk. I am pretty sure his option will be picked up and we can figure out what to do in his walk year
OK, but realistically, we're a treadmill team fighting for the 8th spot. Maybe we get lucky? With a draft pick? Maybe RJ, Mitch and Obi pop? Maybe free agency bails them out...which becomes a harder proposition if you extend Mitch and Randle. Big maybes...extending Randle screws with the cap which screws with flexibility. I want the Knicks to have legit shots at titles and not just settle for play in games. I realize baby steps, but you have to factor in the long-term too.
Your right. If Randle is the real deal he can be extended and maybe traded as well. cap space as we all know is not enough. Gotta have the talent around the player.
Maybe we draft to replace Mitch and he is traded? He might be the best chip right now.
All I know is we have to crawl out of this hole and the better our team the more options we have.
Yes we have to get better, otherwise it's just rinse and repeat. IF Randle does what he's doing or close for the next 2 seasons, we have to pay him. Same with Robinson. The goal should always be to have good players, plenty of draft picks, and maintain 1 max cap slot. If we sign Randle and Robinson we can still leave a max slot open. And hope that we keep getting better and 1 star says he wants to come here and make a difference. But we have to be a good team first.
Yeah this for me. Assuming RJ Mitch and Randle is the way all we need is “the guy” via max slot, trade or draft pick which will be at our disposal.
