https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/1/20/...I watched 2 pelican games so far (lonzo was really solid in those 2) and was all for trading for this guy until I read this
There's a reason these two lottery picks did not get extended contracts.
The clock is ticking for Lonzo Ball. The Pelicans guard is now in his fourth season, and it’s still unclear what role makes sense for him in the NBA. His defense and basketball IQ will keep him in the league for a long time, but his streaky jumper and inability to threaten defenses make it hard to fit him in to most starting lineups.
Sound Familiar
New Pelicans coach Stan Van Gundy has taken the ball away from Lonzo and given it to Brandon Ingram, who has taken another meaningful step forward this season.
The limitations in the rest of his game suggest Ball will always be haunted by his streaky jumper. One of the oldest rules of thumb is that a player whose jumper is off should get to the rim or the free throw line just to see a shot go through the net.But Lonzo doesn’t do either consistently.
There are way too many possessions when he dribbles the ball aimlessly at the 3-point line without putting any pressure on the defense:
There's highlights in the article showing this
I hear the Knicks are very interested, but IMO his value is not much higher than Frank and DSJ.
Even in NBA 2k game, the Pels let him walk when he was a RFA, despite having a 85 rating..lol
knicks1248 wrote:https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/1/20/...I watched 2 pelican games so far (lonzo was really solid in those 2) and was all for trading for this guy until I read this
There's a reason these two lottery picks did not get extended contracts.
The clock is ticking for Lonzo Ball. The Pelicans guard is now in his fourth season, and it’s still unclear what role makes sense for him in the NBA. His defense and basketball IQ will keep him in the league for a long time, but his streaky jumper and inability to threaten defenses make it hard to fit him in to most starting lineups.
Sound Familiar
New Pelicans coach Stan Van Gundy has taken the ball away from Lonzo and given it to Brandon Ingram, who has taken another meaningful step forward this season.
The limitations in the rest of his game suggest Ball will always be haunted by his streaky jumper. One of the oldest rules of thumb is that a player whose jumper is off should get to the rim or the free throw line just to see a shot go through the net.But Lonzo doesn’t do either consistently.
There are way too many possessions when he dribbles the ball aimlessly at the 3-point line without putting any pressure on the defense:
There's highlights in the article showing this
I hear the Knicks are very interested, but IMO his value is not much higher than Frank and DSJ.
Even in NBA 2k game, the Pels let him walk when he was a RFA, despite having a 85 rating..lol
Better?
In what way? Not having been your whipping boy for 4 years?
Seems to me that Frankie is a superior shooter who simply doesn't shoot enough. And a damned fine FT shooter.
Ball might be the better, off-the-bench PG but Frankie is a far more versatile swingman across 3-4 positions.
I would be dead set against acquiring a starting PG in a trade right now, unless it is a legit superstar player of Kyrie's, Dame's or Steph's level. We have an up-and-coming talented player in IQ, and putting a marginal talent into the starting role ahead of him for the next several years may deflate his ambition and enthusiasm, and not really help us become championship-caliber any way. So, the time to trade for or sign the Lonzos, D'Angelos or Shroeders of this world is over.
'
If we aren’t happy with our draft positioning and decide to get him this Summer, I would be ok with that. However, I would just stick with what we have and see where we can go and see if we can get lucky with the lottery if we end up being in it. There is currently no need to move assets unless there is an offer that blows us away.
funny because a few weeks ago you were like "We gotta sign this guy"
Today its "OK... I watched this guy play twice and he's not that good"
Guess what? He's not that good
we already have a pg that can't shoot - so there is no real upgrade.
Jason Kidd, Rajon Rondo - both pgs that excelled without lethal outside shots.
Ball shot .375% from 3 last year - this year is very different and his # is very low- .282%.
Maybe we can swap problems? DSjr for Ball? Or Frank or both, frankly- neither are contributing or likely part of our long term team.
fwk00 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/1/20/...I watched 2 pelican games so far (lonzo was really solid in those 2) and was all for trading for this guy until I read this
There's a reason these two lottery picks did not get extended contracts.
The clock is ticking for Lonzo Ball. The Pelicans guard is now in his fourth season, and it’s still unclear what role makes sense for him in the NBA. His defense and basketball IQ will keep him in the league for a long time, but his streaky jumper and inability to threaten defenses make it hard to fit him in to most starting lineups.
Sound Familiar
New Pelicans coach Stan Van Gundy has taken the ball away from Lonzo and given it to Brandon Ingram, who has taken another meaningful step forward this season.
The limitations in the rest of his game suggest Ball will always be haunted by his streaky jumper. One of the oldest rules of thumb is that a player whose jumper is off should get to the rim or the free throw line just to see a shot go through the net.But Lonzo doesn’t do either consistently.
There are way too many possessions when he dribbles the ball aimlessly at the 3-point line without putting any pressure on the defense:
There's highlights in the article showing this
I hear the Knicks are very interested, but IMO his value is not much higher than Frank and DSJ.
Even in NBA 2k game, the Pels let him walk when he was a RFA, despite having a 85 rating..lol
Better?
In what way? Not having been your whipping boy for 4 years?
Seems to me that Frankie is a superior shooter who simply doesn't shoot enough. And a damned fine FT shooter.
Ball might be the better, off-the-bench PG but Frankie is a far more versatile swingman across 3-4 positions.
Other than free throws, Ball shoots a better % than Frank from the field and from 3, so I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that Frank is a better shooter other than the fact that you like Frank more than Ball.
I like Frank, but his other issue is the lack of availability....
Uptown wrote:fwk00 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/1/20/...I watched 2 pelican games so far (lonzo was really solid in those 2) and was all for trading for this guy until I read this
There's a reason these two lottery picks did not get extended contracts.
The clock is ticking for Lonzo Ball. The Pelicans guard is now in his fourth season, and it’s still unclear what role makes sense for him in the NBA. His defense and basketball IQ will keep him in the league for a long time, but his streaky jumper and inability to threaten defenses make it hard to fit him in to most starting lineups.
Sound Familiar
New Pelicans coach Stan Van Gundy has taken the ball away from Lonzo and given it to Brandon Ingram, who has taken another meaningful step forward this season.
The limitations in the rest of his game suggest Ball will always be haunted by his streaky jumper. One of the oldest rules of thumb is that a player whose jumper is off should get to the rim or the free throw line just to see a shot go through the net.But Lonzo doesn’t do either consistently.
There are way too many possessions when he dribbles the ball aimlessly at the 3-point line without putting any pressure on the defense:
There's highlights in the article showing this
I hear the Knicks are very interested, but IMO his value is not much higher than Frank and DSJ.
Even in NBA 2k game, the Pels let him walk when he was a RFA, despite having a 85 rating..lol
Better?
In what way? Not having been your whipping boy for 4 years?
Seems to me that Frankie is a superior shooter who simply doesn't shoot enough. And a damned fine FT shooter.
Ball might be the better, off-the-bench PG but Frankie is a far more versatile swingman across 3-4 positions.
Other than free throws, Ball shoots a better % than Frank from the field and from 3, so I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that Frank is a better shooter other than the fact that you like Frank more than Ball.
I like Frank, but his other issue is the lack of availability....
That goes without saying...
I don't know how he can say he's a versatile swing man and he's 12th on the depth chart after 4 yrs in the league.
My point is that Ball doesn't bring enough of what we're missing in a pg (Leadership, perimeter shooting and penetration) for us to trade for him.
They certainly are not going to trade Ball for DSJ, Frank or Jared unless a 1st round pick is attached.
Lonzo Ball stuffs a stat-sheet in a way Frank doesn't. I'm not into advanced metrics like that but the general consensus is Ball is a true difference maker, whereas Frank hasn't been to this point. Frank has just had so many opportunities to grab a role like Quickley did immediately, but he hasn't done it. Frank still has a role in the league and maybe even on this team, but he's become injury prone and when healthy he can be a replacement player, unless someone like Dennis Smith. I like Frank and he plays the right way, but there's a mental hurdle he hasn't been able to overcome to be more aggressive offensively.
Do the Pelicans think Ball is a problem?
Elfrid vs Lonzo is a recurring topic on Reddit:
2021 https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/l1...
2019 https://www.reddit.com/r/suns/comments/a...
Funny how in 2019 folks were like HOW DARE YOU - Lonzo's the next Magic Johnson!)... and now he's compared to journeyman Elfrid Payton.
In 2021, the discussion has broken down to: "let's trade your sh*tty backup PG for ours".
In my book, I continue to monitor the career arc Dejounte Murray on the Spurs (pick 29 of the 2016 draft); he's the posterboy for consistent coaching and player development. Similar frame and length as Lonzo/Frank (6'6/6'7, near 7' wingspan), but wasn't supposed to be nearly as talented. In spite of losing 1 year of development to a torn ACL, he continues to outpace both of them in terms of year to year growth. (Ball and Frank in many ways seem to be going backwards)
Ball is more of a natural PG with better court vision. Has length and defensive capabilities. But he isn’t it. Can’t have a PG that’s a liability at the FT line. He could be a guy that cleans it all up and becomes a stud later in his career. But Knicks shouldn’t be looking to gamble on that. Would probably end up the same results as Mudiay and Burke and DSJr and Payton.
It's tough to say what Lonzo Ball or Frank are worth.
Both have shown their strengths... both have some significant gaps in their games.
Frank hasn't shown with any consistency that he'll be more Andre Roberson on OKC - a defensive specialist and little else. The main hint of progress is that he increased his FT% to 86% last season (33% FT in 4 games this year!)
And Lonzo hasn't shown he'll be much more than Elfrid Payton - who hasn't been able to get a long term deal since his rookie contract. Good for occasional triple doubles, but his shooting (from anywhere, from the FT line) can't be counted on. (At this point, Elfrid at least is a consistent 45% FG shooter for his career (largely because he doesn't launch a lot of 3's).
There are two things Lonzo does that Elfrid and/or Frank don't - he pushes the tempo/plays faster and he moves and cuts when not dribbling which promotes better ball movement for the other players.
Frank dribbles and hands off and sits in the corner. Elfrid dribbles and dribbles until Randle's iso is ready to go. He's far from perfect but if the cost is reasonable - he's still young with potential and did improve his shooting last season. I think he's worth a Dallas 1st (pick probably in the late teens or twenties) and a DSJr, Payton combo if that gets it done.
IQ can still develop without being forced into a bigger role because everyone ahead of him is lousy... he can still be that ideal combo guard that breeds life into the 2nd unit and if he develops beyond that - what did we really lose? Payton is stopgap, DSJr is barely in the league? So it comes down to rolling the dice between another pick in the late teens/early twenties or a former #2 pick that is still trying to find his game? We need more ball movement and Rubio's too old at this point - worth a try if the cost is reasonable.
Why give up assets for Lonzo? I’d rather stick with with IQ/Elf (as backup) and Frank
