In this environment with all the health and safety protocols having depth is a good thing. Stay ready Austin.
fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:With no true alpha in Rose's eyes on this team he is going to chuck a shot every 2 possesions. He is going to destroy the teams chemistry. This is a horrendus move but not suprising. Don't know why I expected competence. He is going to freeze out Barrett such a huge mistake
my god what a drama queen.... but so long as you are talking about destroying chemistry there's this:
You are right about thing tho... based on who went to dinner with him he did freeze out RJ
I care more about IQ and Barrets touches. I guess I'm the only one that remembers how much Porzingis hated playing with Rose
Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:With no true alpha in Rose's eyes on this team he is going to chuck a shot every 2 possesions. He is going to destroy the teams chemistry. This is a horrendus move but not suprising. Don't know why I expected competence. He is going to freeze out Barrett such a huge mistake
my god what a drama queen.... but so long as you are talking about destroying chemistry there's this:
You are right about thing tho... based on who went to dinner with him he did freeze out RJ
I care more about IQ and Barrets touches. I guess I'm the only one that remembers how much Porzingis hated playing with Rose
Nope... everyone remembers. You are just the only one that thinks Derrick Rose 4 years ago and how KP feels have any relevance whatsoever to this current situation. [SPOILER] they dont
Why are you talking about 3-4 years ago? Also you were the guy who said the whole roster was trash when we started 0-2
So being a “situational” player is like being “designated for assignment” in MLB, we are just waiting for a taker to offer a trade.
Imagine a world where people thru experiences change.
Lebron is not the same immature kid he was 15 years ago. THink about how “King James” in high school was so anointed and the head trip that is. All to grow up, marry his high school sweetheart and continue to build a media empire with quality and civically motivated to change things for the good. some of you are stuck with “Lebron is an asshole”. Thats fine and nobody has to be a fan of “LeDouche” but have to acknowledge his talent, his intensity, motivation, and subsequent acknowledgement of his body of work.
Rose was a dick. 22 year old MVP on top of the world, got max money from Nike and Bulls and then blows out the knee and it crushed him. To be traded from his home town bulls was awfuland he did not handle it well. You don’t have to be sympathetic. He came here and promptly had a very public sex scandal that he was civically being accused (not criminal). I thought he was not guilty and thus did not have to pay the women. That don’t mean he was innocent or it was a bad look for him. I was not a fan then and really don’t think about DRose all that much. 5 years later we are to just assume e is the same person and player?
Its not like he was engaged to your daughter, cheated on her, then she take him back and our suppose to just forget it. Its sports, its about Thibs and DRose reconciling his his time and place in the game, his legacy, the highs and the lows.
This is NYC baby, a place were you can get a second chance and make it right. Its on him. Let’s see how his story unfolds.
BTW, it gets told on the basketball court, not in the papers............
While he has a 14mill contract from Nike to motivate him he stays in the league it would appear he has adapted to being a role player. I doubt he had much choice but we forget how hard it is to remain in the top 1% world wide and be good enough to do more than just sit on the bench. He is not the same player but good enough to be wanted.
As for KP? Would I take him back? Its not even feasible so its a non starter. But lets just in 4-5 years he proves durable and his time in Dallas for what ever reason has moved on and we are contending. Say he would have a role here. Not as the main man as since we are “contending” we obviously have our team. KP is contrite, says all the right things, has proven to have matured and wants to “Make something in his history right”, then yeah I’d take him. It starts with his fit as a player on the court. Janis, his diva attitude are all secondary. The whole KP affair was regrettable. His shitty attitude was part of it. That PHil could not trade him, his brother, MIlls, the way the team was built for him, etc etc. He was not 100% at fault. Do I like the way he handled it? Of course not. Does the Mav’s thus far lack of success matter? Just that pick! IM glad we have it for sure.
WE get to swap the 2023 pick. This shyt keeps up we might benefit from that also! LOL. But thats only sweet if Knicks rise up the rankings!!! So or a lot of reasons I root for our success and not Mav’s failure.
DRose is not the savior. He is here to assist in the here and now and that includes some mentorship to promote the Taskmaster (Thibs) agenda.
Meanwhile we are moving Rivers aside as he has not been effective. He missed most of camp with his injury and did come back nice but his game is getting worse as the team installs more complex sets and defensive schematics. He is making errors and not on the bench. He was given the benefit of the doubt but its just not happening here. Its a tough business. I like the guy, and he’ll be fine. Likley we trade for a second round pick or buy him out as a courtesy so he can latch on somewhere else.
fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:With no true alpha in Rose's eyes on this team he is going to chuck a shot every 2 possesions. He is going to destroy the teams chemistry. This is a horrendus move but not suprising. Don't know why I expected competence. He is going to freeze out Barrett such a huge mistake
my god what a drama queen.... but so long as you are talking about destroying chemistry there's this:
You are right about thing tho... based on who went to dinner with him he did freeze out RJ
I care more about IQ and Barrets touches. I guess I'm the only one that remembers how much Porzingis hated playing with Rose
Nope... everyone remembers. You are just the only one that thinks Derrick Rose 4 years ago and how KP feels have any relevance whatsoever to this current situation. [SPOILER] they dontWhy are you talking about 3-4 years ago? Also you were the guy who said the whole roster was trash when we started 0-2
You're right, Rose isnt the same player. He has 4 more years of wear and tear. Fair to bring up his last time here. He earned it. If this had happened on another franchise, I would agree with you, but it didnt.
Rose had some good moments, but we also watched what happens when you leave him out there too long. Still would rather see Payton start. Better defender, better at getting to the rim, at this point in their respective careers.
We'll see if Rose can keep IQ involved in the offense.
SupremeCommander wrote:I personally love the trade... I am not someone who thinks minutes freely given to yoots is valuable--Fizz anyone? I think what is infinitely more valuable is seeing a former MVP in action. I also think seeing players and the front office colloborate on WINNING is the most important training a player can get. also, maybe this is too old school, but I think the best way for a young player to develop is to take minutes away from vets by earning minutes
Would agree with this. Also think that their is a lot of value having a player that knows what a coach wants him to do. Makes coaching much easier. My only issue with the trade was that I hoped we would have used/saved assets to garnish a younger player with a timeline fitting the rest of the squad with a future here. ie, the way Rose used 2nd's in this past draft to move up for a player they really wanted. However, Rose will be a good mentor. Will play his best with Thibs and at worst, help IQ and RJ learn things maybe coaches can't teach.
HofstraBBall wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I personally love the trade... I am not someone who thinks minutes freely given to yoots is valuable--Fizz anyone? I think what is infinitely more valuable is seeing a former MVP in action. I also think seeing players and the front office colloborate on WINNING is the most important training a player can get. also, maybe this is too old school, but I think the best way for a young player to develop is to take minutes away from vets by earning minutes
Would agree with this. Also think that their is a lot of value having a player that knows what a coach wants him to do. Makes coaching much easier. My only issue with the trade was that I hoped we would have used/saved assets to garnish a younger player with a timeline fitting the rest of the squad with a future here. ie, the way Rose used 2nd's in this past draft to move up for a player they really wanted. However, Rose will be a good mentor. Will play his best with Thibs and at worst, help IQ and RJ learn things maybe coaches can't teach.
Don't you worry, Knicks got PLENTY of draft assets to do that still. It's hard to trade for exactly the player you are looking for that matches what DRose could do.
We really didn't give up much at all. If Rose continues to do what he did last night then it will be an excellent trade. If not, cut bait.
GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:With no true alpha in Rose's eyes on this team he is going to chuck a shot every 2 possesions. He is going to destroy the teams chemistry. This is a horrendus move but not suprising. Don't know why I expected competence. He is going to freeze out Barrett such a huge mistake
my god what a drama queen.... but so long as you are talking about destroying chemistry there's this:
You are right about thing tho... based on who went to dinner with him he did freeze out RJ
I care more about IQ and Barrets touches. I guess I'm the only one that remembers how much Porzingis hated playing with Rose
Nope... everyone remembers. You are just the only one that thinks Derrick Rose 4 years ago and how KP feels have any relevance whatsoever to this current situation. [SPOILER] they dontWhy are you talking about 3-4 years ago? Also you were the guy who said the whole roster was trash when we started 0-2
You're right, Rose isnt the same player. He has 4 more years of wear and tear. Fair to bring up his last time here. He earned it. If this had happened on another franchise, I would agree with you, but it didnt.
Rose had some good moments, but we also watched what happens when you leave him out there too long. Still would rather see Payton start. Better defender, better at getting to the rim, at this point in their respective careers.
We'll see if Rose can keep IQ involved in the offense.
Payton is NOT a better player than Rose. He just isnt. Rose was excellent on D last night and Payton is absolutely NOT better at getting to the rim. I have no idea how or what you are basing that on. Go look at their shooting percentages. Lasts 3-4 years Rose is shooting about 10% higher at the rim than Elf.
You just clearly dislike Rose, but he's simply better than Elf in pretty much every way
KnickDanger wrote:We really didn't give up much at all. If Rose continues to do what he did last night then it will be an excellent trade. If not, cut bait.
Agreed; I still can't believe we got Rose for what we did. At this point, it was almost akin to getting anything for Eddy Curry.
As long as he doesn't become a revolving door on D, I'm happy. He's saying all the right things, and he WANTED to be here. Imagine that.
Next up, Leon trades Knox, Ron Baker's knee braces and some Rebecca Harlow stills to Portland for Melo 
Now there's a second unit:
Rose
Frankie
Melo
Noel
Obi-1
Rose said his 3 point shooting has improved... so I looked it up. He's shooting .342 over the last 3 years (114-333). A touch below league average but when you consider this is regarded as the weakest part of his game that is very good.
fishmike wrote:Rose said his 3 point shooting has improved... so I looked it up. He's shooting .342 over the last 3 years (114-333). A touch below league average but when you consider this is regarded as the weakest part of his game that is very good.
He also seems to have a pretty decent assist rate the last couple of years. He has really tried to round out his game.
fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:With no true alpha in Rose's eyes on this team he is going to chuck a shot every 2 possesions. He is going to destroy the teams chemistry. This is a horrendus move but not suprising. Don't know why I expected competence. He is going to freeze out Barrett such a huge mistake
my god what a drama queen.... but so long as you are talking about destroying chemistry there's this:
You are right about thing tho... based on who went to dinner with him he did freeze out RJ
I care more about IQ and Barrets touches. I guess I'm the only one that remembers how much Porzingis hated playing with Rose
Nope... everyone remembers. You are just the only one that thinks Derrick Rose 4 years ago and how KP feels have any relevance whatsoever to this current situation. [SPOILER] they dontWhy are you talking about 3-4 years ago? Also you were the guy who said the whole roster was trash when we started 0-2
You're right, Rose isnt the same player. He has 4 more years of wear and tear. Fair to bring up his last time here. He earned it. If this had happened on another franchise, I would agree with you, but it didnt.
Rose had some good moments, but we also watched what happens when you leave him out there too long. Still would rather see Payton start. Better defender, better at getting to the rim, at this point in their respective careers.
We'll see if Rose can keep IQ involved in the offense.
Payton is NOT a better player than Rose. He just isnt. Rose was excellent on D last night and Payton is absolutely NOT better at getting to the rim. I have no idea how or what you are basing that on. Go look at their shooting percentages. Lasts 3-4 years Rose is shooting about 10% higher at the rim than Elf. You just clearly dislike Rose, but he's simply better than Elf in pretty much every way
Who said anything about the last 3-4 years? Im talking about 3-4 years of wear and tear on his body.Im talking about the present. Id rather see Rose come off the bench, instant offense. You make it sound like its some kind of punishment, for a 32 year old PG, who cant handle major minutes.
You want a 32 year old PG to start, finish while giving Payton as little PT as possible. Cmon man, does that make any sense?
Can Rose defend the best PGs in the league better than Payton? What's our defense ranked? Not suggesting Payton is anything more than a stopgap. Rose is a stopgap with a lot more miles on the odometer. Best to bring him off the bench.
BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:
Wonder if he mentioned if that situation was on the Knicks or another team
It's a weird situation. I wonder if they'd just waive him if he requested since he makes so little. I gotta think another move is coming. They have too many combo guards who have varying degrees of effectiveness and not enough three point shooting.
I read immediately after the signing that “league sources” thought the Knicks signed him to trade him to Doc eventually. The contract is so weird I remember accepting that as fact, as in the Knicks can just cut bait on the un guaranteed years if he doesn’t get deals at the deadline. The guaranteed doesn’t matter if he gets traded to dad
GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:With no true alpha in Rose's eyes on this team he is going to chuck a shot every 2 possesions. He is going to destroy the teams chemistry. This is a horrendus move but not suprising. Don't know why I expected competence. He is going to freeze out Barrett such a huge mistake
my god what a drama queen.... but so long as you are talking about destroying chemistry there's this:
You are right about thing tho... based on who went to dinner with him he did freeze out RJ
I care more about IQ and Barrets touches. I guess I'm the only one that remembers how much Porzingis hated playing with Rose
Nope... everyone remembers. You are just the only one that thinks Derrick Rose 4 years ago and how KP feels have any relevance whatsoever to this current situation. [SPOILER] they dontWhy are you talking about 3-4 years ago? Also you were the guy who said the whole roster was trash when we started 0-2
You're right, Rose isnt the same player. He has 4 more years of wear and tear. Fair to bring up his last time here. He earned it. If this had happened on another franchise, I would agree with you, but it didnt.
Rose had some good moments, but we also watched what happens when you leave him out there too long. Still would rather see Payton start. Better defender, better at getting to the rim, at this point in their respective careers.
We'll see if Rose can keep IQ involved in the offense.
Payton is NOT a better player than Rose. He just isnt. Rose was excellent on D last night and Payton is absolutely NOT better at getting to the rim. I have no idea how or what you are basing that on. Go look at their shooting percentages. Lasts 3-4 years Rose is shooting about 10% higher at the rim than Elf. You just clearly dislike Rose, but he's simply better than Elf in pretty much every way
Who said anything about the last 3-4 years? Im talking about 3-4 years of wear and tear on his body.Im talking about the present. Id rather see Rose come off the bench, instant offense. You make it sound like its some kind of punishment, for a 32 year old PG, who cant handle major minutes.
You want a 32 year old PG to start, finish while giving Payton as little PT as possible. Cmon man, does that make any sense?
Can Rose defend the best PGs in the league better than Payton? What's our defense ranked? Not suggesting Payton is anything more than a stopgap. Rose is a stopgap with a lot more miles on the odometer. Best to bring him off the bench.
The bold.
I never said Rose should be a starter. Where did I say that? Rose is better basketball player than ELF, so playing him more makes perfect sense. This isnt calculus. As it turns out Rose is taking the backup PG spot from Rivers.
Knixkik wrote:fishmike wrote:Rose said his 3 point shooting has improved... so I looked it up. He's shooting .342 over the last 3 years (114-333). A touch below league average but when you consider this is regarded as the weakest part of his game that is very good.
He also seems to have a pretty decent assist rate the last couple of years. He has really tried to round out his game.
This is weird coming from 2 ppl who hated Rose when he was here, wanted no parts of him, and were OK with Jack running the point( i blame him for frank), who is currently in the G league
Rose has never been a selfish player, has always been a solid teammate. He said he didn't feel the need to shoot 3's before, but the league has changed and he needed to make a change.
Idk if many ppl know this but Rose is on a Permanent Minutes restriction and won't be playing beyond 23 to 25 minutes.
knicks1248 wrote:Knixkik wrote:fishmike wrote:Rose said his 3 point shooting has improved... so I looked it up. He's shooting .342 over the last 3 years (114-333). A touch below league average but when you consider this is regarded as the weakest part of his game that is very good.
He also seems to have a pretty decent assist rate the last couple of years. He has really tried to round out his game.
This is weird coming from 2 ppl who hated Rose when he was here, wanted no parts of him, and were OK with Jack running the point( i blame him for frank), who is currently in the G league
Rose has never been a selfish player, has always been a solid teammate. He said he didn't feel the need to shoot 3's before, but the league has changed and he needed to make a change.
Idk if many ppl know this but Rose is on a Permanent Minutes restriction and won't be playing beyond 23 to 25 minutes.
Detroit had him on a minutes restriction, we have no idea if that will carry over. Obviously with Payton and Quickley both in the mix still, Rose isn't going to be playing 30 mpg. If Payton is moved, I bet his minutes creep above 23-25, maybe in the 28 range. Thibs never has him as a full time starter in Minn, but seems more apt to do it here. But i'm still holding out hope that Quickley becomes the guy here, but maybe Thibs wants him in that 6th man role for a year or two, we will see. I'm definitely not a big Rose fan, but this time around he seems more fitting and seems to give the Knicks more options both with the lineup and improving the offense. The Knicks have been playing like a league average team, we just have to see now if Rose moves the needle any.
knicks1248 wrote:Knixkik wrote:fishmike wrote:Rose said his 3 point shooting has improved... so I looked it up. He's shooting .342 over the last 3 years (114-333). A touch below league average but when you consider this is regarded as the weakest part of his game that is very good.
He also seems to have a pretty decent assist rate the last couple of years. He has really tried to round out his game.
This is weird coming from 2 ppl who hated Rose when he was here, wanted no parts of him, and were OK with Jack running the point( i blame him for frank), who is currently in the G league
Rose has never been a selfish player, has always been a solid teammate. He said he didn't feel the need to shoot 3's before, but the league has changed and he needed to make a change.
Idk if many ppl know this but Rose is on a Permanent Minutes restriction and won't be playing beyond 23 to 25 minutes.
If you cant tell the difference between Rose now and Rose with the Melo/KP/Horneck Knicks you are really lost man.
Also literally Rose himself said last time he was here he was stubborn, didnt listen to the coach and wanted to do it HIS way. So the bold is utterly UNTRUE and confirmed by Rose himself. So yes, I didnt like Rose here last time for those really obvious reasons. He's actually a better player now that he's willing to play a role AND he's become a much better shooter going from zero threat from 3 to being a serviceable shooter.
So its only weird to you, because you dont generally pay attention or notice anything that is actually happening 
fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Knixkik wrote:fishmike wrote:Rose said his 3 point shooting has improved... so I looked it up. He's shooting .342 over the last 3 years (114-333). A touch below league average but when you consider this is regarded as the weakest part of his game that is very good.
He also seems to have a pretty decent assist rate the last couple of years. He has really tried to round out his game.
This is weird coming from 2 ppl who hated Rose when he was here, wanted no parts of him, and were OK with Jack running the point( i blame him for frank), who is currently in the G league
Rose has never been a selfish player, has always been a solid teammate. He said he didn't feel the need to shoot 3's before, but the league has changed and he needed to make a change.
Idk if many ppl know this but Rose is on a Permanent Minutes restriction and won't be playing beyond 23 to 25 minutes.
If you cant tell the difference between Rose now and Rose with the Melo/KP/Horneck Knicks you are really lost man.Also literally Rose himself said last time he was here he was stubborn, didnt listen to the coach and wanted to do it HIS way. So the bold is utterly UNTRUE and confirmed by Rose himself. So yes, I didnt like Rose here last time for those really obvious reasons. He's actually a better player now that he's willing to play a role AND he's become a much better shooter going from zero threat from 3 to being a serviceable shooter.
So its only weird to you, because you don't generally pay attention or notice anything that is actually happening
But I told you all of this back then, I told you the culture and the Vibe around the knicks wasn't right, nobody gave a rats ass about playing in the triangle, Not Rose, Not melo, Not Afflalo, KP skipping out on exit meetings, melo requesting a trade, noah partying like it's 1999.
The key point was he wanted to be here when nobody else did.
