Knicks · Length bothered both Rose and IQ (page 1)

wargames wrote:A small guard up line up is usually a bench lineup for this reason. If they’ve aren’t working you can go to the starters. Which we could of did but didn’t

It will be easier to scout the Knicks. No interior scoring R.J. loves going to his left and the guards off the bench can’t handle length.

BRIGGS wrote:It was a game where we should’ve stayed with our bigger guards—- Payton and Barrett and relied on our smaller guys even as the ship be sinkin. In the future we may have to adjust against bigger teams

Don't look too much into this. Both of them shot horribly and never found any type of rhythm. I don't think there's anymore to this than just 2 players who had an off night. Quickley especially. He missed open shots he normally makes. There's no adjustments other than just forget it and move onto the next. Poor shooting and lack of intensity on defense carrying over. For what it's worth Quickley was solid defensively last night.

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:It was a game where we should’ve stayed with our bigger guards—- Payton and Barrett and relied on our smaller guys even as the ship be sinkin. In the future we may have to adjust against bigger teams

Don't look too much into this. Both of them shot horribly and never found any type of rhythm. I don't think there's anymore to this than just 2 players who had an off night. Quickley especially. He missed open shots he normally makes. There's no adjustments other than just forget it and move onto the next. Poor shooting and lack of intensity on defense carrying over. For what it's worth Quickley was solid defensively last night.

We win games mostly by defense, thats only going to win us half of our games, which is why we are hanging close to 500.

The lack of 3 point shooting is a glaring weakness with this team, and the pace we play at is just tooooo slow. We are not talented enough to beat teams consistently in a half court set

We also lack a center who can score, or shoot a face up jumpers (Taj doesn't get enough minutes) which would open up the paint.

I wish MDA was Thibs assistant

BRIGGS wrote:It was a game where we should’ve stayed with our bigger guards—- Payton and Barrett and relied on our smaller guys even as the ship be sinkin. In the future we may have to adjust against bigger teams

Disagree. How much does length bother you when you can get off 22 shots? The question should be why did Thibs go with them when RJ and Payton were shooting better? Cant be plus/minus. Rose and IQ were two of the worst on the team in that last night.

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:It was a game where we should’ve stayed with our bigger guards—- Payton and Barrett and relied on our smaller guys even as the ship be sinkin. In the future we may have to adjust against bigger teams

Disagree. How much does length bother you when you can get off 22 shots? The question should be why did Thibs go with them when RJ and Payton were shooting better? Cant be plus/minus. Rose and IQ were two of the worst on the team in that last night.

With the chemistry and success that they (IQ and Rose) have showed so far, it's understandable as to why he went that route.

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:It was a game where we should’ve stayed with our bigger guards—- Payton and Barrett and relied on our smaller guys even as the ship be sinkin. In the future we may have to adjust against bigger teams

Disagree. How much does length bother you when you can get off 22 shots? The question should be why did Thibs go with them when RJ and Payton were shooting better? Cant be plus/minus. Rose and IQ were two of the worst on the team in that last night.

With the chemistry and success that they (IQ and Rose) have showed so far, it's understandable as to why he went that route.

Maybe. But a better question than their length? Agree that sometimes coaches go with feel. However, think this was one of very few bad feel calls for Thibs. Seemed like a homer fandom move than a experienced coach move.

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:It was a game where we should’ve stayed with our bigger guards—- Payton and Barrett and relied on our smaller guys even as the ship be sinkin. In the future we may have to adjust against bigger teams

Disagree. How much does length bother you when you can get off 22 shots? The question should be why did Thibs go with them when RJ and Payton were shooting better? Cant be plus/minus. Rose and IQ were two of the worst on the team in that last night.

With the chemistry and success that they (IQ and Rose) have showed so far, it's understandable as to why he went that route.

Maybe. But a better question than their length? Agree that sometimes coaches go with feel. However, think this was one of very few bad feel calls for Thibs. Seemed like a homer fandom move than a experienced coach move.

I think its the opposite. Thibs is all about consistency and as an experience coach, having consistent subs and lineups brings stability to a team. The down side of this coaching stability is the lack of adjustability during certain match-ups. I do agree that Payton and RJ shouldve been in the game a little longer and finished the 4th, based on what the sub did or didn't do in that 2nd quarter. As thibs said, when he subbed in Rose and IQ in the 2nd half, they lost that 10 pt lead and never recovered.

Our problem is the same as b4. Our makes or misses dictates our defensive efficiency and mental toughness on the defensive end.

If I was the coach, I would've came up with a game plan to play against a taller lineup, vs bringing 2 small guards off the bench, in Rose and IQ....against a team that has a 6'7 PG who easily posted Payton in the post.. what do u think he would do against Ross or IQ? I believe if only 1 of them came in, with a traditional SG type size player, the outcome would've been different. IQ was exposed on defense and thigs pulled him out early. IQ missed all his shots from that point on. Im still a huge fan, but he clearly can't handle certain defensive match-ups at PG or SG. And as a rookie, his confidence can get shaky real easy. Hopefully this was a good learning lesson for both players and coaches.

BRIGGS wrote:It was a game where we should’ve stayed with our bigger guards—- Payton and Barrett and relied on our smaller guys even as the ship be sinkin. In the future we may have to adjust against bigger teams

Speed amd making open shots bothers teams too.

If we had won, your thread title would've been, Rose and IQ are no bothered by height....because speed kills.

blkexec wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:It was a game where we should’ve stayed with our bigger guards—- Payton and Barrett and relied on our smaller guys even as the ship be sinkin. In the future we may have to adjust against bigger teams

Speed amd making open shots bothers teams too.

If we had won, your thread title would've been, Rose and IQ are no bothered by height....because speed kills.

Don't watch other teams but feel like the Knicks are consistently the one team that misses completely wide open shots on the regular

I get it that team's core values are on the defensive side of things but man, it's frustrating to watch

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:It was a game where we should’ve stayed with our bigger guards—- Payton and Barrett and relied on our smaller guys even as the ship be sinkin. In the future we may have to adjust against bigger teams

Speed amd making open shots bothers teams too.

If we had won, your thread title would've been, Rose and IQ are no bothered by height....because speed kills.

Don't watch other teams but feel like the Knicks are consistently the one team that misses completely wide open shots on the regular

I get it that team's core values are on the defensive side of things but man, it's frustrating to watch

The main reason is because teams are playing zone and forcing the knicks to make open shots. And because they are almost 'too open' they miss more often. It's like a mind-game, daring them to shoot. It's much harder than making rhythm shots that are lightly contested due to good ball movement. Bottom line is if the knicks add a couple legit shooters it will force the defenses to adjust and the domino effect of good shooting will make a difference. Having a great shooter (like Curry, Lillard or even Duncan Robinson) matters because the rest of the team feeds off of that. I will drive this home until the draft, if Kispert is available for us, we need to draft him. Knicks have some guys that can make shots but no elite 3pt shooters. We are dependent on Quickley really developing, as he can become as elite shooter as well. If we have Quickley and Kispert to surround Randle and Barrett with, it's a different situation. Another option would be signing Gary Trent Jr this summer.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:It was a game where we should’ve stayed with our bigger guards—- Payton and Barrett and relied on our smaller guys even as the ship be sinkin. In the future we may have to adjust against bigger teams

Speed amd making open shots bothers teams too.

If we had won, your thread title would've been, Rose and IQ are no bothered by height....because speed kills.

Don't watch other teams but feel like the Knicks are consistently the one team that misses completely wide open shots on the regular

I get it that team's core values are on the defensive side of things but man, it's frustrating to watch

I think its conditioning. Playing both sides....and using a lot of energy on defense, including practices, affects the legs which impacts the jumper. Obviously that's not the only reason, but long practices and chopping it up on defense, will affect most jumpshooters....especially average to below shooters like the knicks. And Quickley did not look like he had his legs. His lateral defense was bad.. I saw guys just drive right by him sometimes.

I'm hoping come next season, players will be like ok, I need to step up my workouts. See what Randle did. It takes a special conditioning to survive in thibs system as a shooter. I think for defenders like Mitch or Noah, they will look like stars on defense, becasue they don't have to shoot on offense. If Quickley has to guard 6'7 players all the time as a SG off the bench, he will have these kind of games.

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:It was a game where we should’ve stayed with our bigger guards—- Payton and Barrett and relied on our smaller guys even as the ship be sinkin. In the future we may have to adjust against bigger teams

Disagree. How much does length bother you when you can get off 22 shots? The question should be why did Thibs go with them when RJ and Payton were shooting better? Cant be plus/minus. Rose and IQ were two of the worst on the team in that last night.

With the chemistry and success that they (IQ and Rose) have showed so far, it's understandable as to why he went that route.

Maybe. But a better question than their length? Agree that sometimes coaches go with feel. However, think this was one of very few bad feel calls for Thibs. Seemed like a homer fandom move than a experienced coach move.

I think its the opposite. Thibs is all about consistency and as an experience coach, having consistent subs and lineups brings stability to a team. The down side of this coaching stability is the lack of adjustability during certain match-ups. I do agree that Payton and RJ shouldve been in the game a little longer and finished the 4th, based on what the sub did or didn't do in that 2nd quarter. As thibs said, when he subbed in Rose and IQ in the 2nd half, they lost that 10 pt lead and never recovered.

Our problem is the same as b4. Our makes or misses dictates our defensive efficiency and mental toughness on the defensive end.

If I was the coach, I would've came up with a game plan to play against a taller lineup, vs bringing 2 small guards off the bench, in Rose and IQ....against a team that has a 6'7 PG who easily posted Payton in the post.. what do u think he would do against Ross or IQ? I believe if only 1 of them came in, with a traditional SG type size player, the outcome would've been different. IQ was exposed on defense and thigs pulled him out early. IQ missed all his shots from that point on. Im still a huge fan, but he clearly can't handle certain defensive match-ups at PG or SG. And as a rookie, his confidence can get shaky real easy. Hopefully this was a good learning lesson for both players and coaches.

Thibs has been consistent in that he has gone with the hot hands down the stretch. Especially at the PG position. He failed to do that last night. Considering it was obvious Rose and IQ did not have it going.

As for our problem. It's not as complicated. When we do not hit outside/3 pt. shots we lose. Which is the case for any team. From HS to the Pros. Think there is too much thought that goes on trying to figure why guys are missing shots. For all that have played the game you know there are nights you cant miss and nights you cant hit wide open shots. Fact is they just did not hit their shots last night. This whole thread would not have been constructed if they did.

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:It was a game where we should’ve stayed with our bigger guards—- Payton and Barrett and relied on our smaller guys even as the ship be sinkin. In the future we may have to adjust against bigger teams

Don't look too much into this. Both of them shot horribly and never found any type of rhythm. I don't think there's anymore to this than just 2 players who had an off night. Quickley especially. He missed open shots he normally makes. There's no adjustments other than just forget it and move onto the next. Poor shooting and lack of intensity on defense carrying over. For what it's worth Quickley was solid defensively last night.

We win games mostly by defense, thats only going to win us half of our games, which is why we are hanging close to 500.

The lack of 3 point shooting is a glaring weakness with this team, and the pace we play at is just tooooo slow. We are not talented enough to beat teams consistently in a half court set

We also lack a center who can score, or shoot a face up jumpers (Taj doesn't get enough minutes) which would open up the paint.

I wish MDA was Thibs assistant

This is right on point. I was watching this game thinking how hard it would be to win when they are making a 3 for every 2 pt basket we made.

P.s. I HATE this new NBA.

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:It was a game where we should’ve stayed with our bigger guards—- Payton and Barrett and relied on our smaller guys even as the ship be sinkin. In the future we may have to adjust against bigger teams

Don't look too much into this. Both of them shot horribly and never found any type of rhythm. I don't think there's anymore to this than just 2 players who had an off night. Quickley especially. He missed open shots he normally makes. There's no adjustments other than just forget it and move onto the next. Poor shooting and lack of intensity on defense carrying over. For what it's worth Quickley was solid defensively last night.

We win games mostly by defense, thats only going to win us half of our games, which is why we are hanging close to 500.

The lack of 3 point shooting is a glaring weakness with this team, and the pace we play at is just tooooo slow. We are not talented enough to beat teams consistently in a half court set

We also lack a center who can score, or shoot a face up jumpers (Taj doesn't get enough minutes) which would open up the paint.

I wish MDA was Thibs assistant

Payton need some 3 touch plays, and Rose need some 3 touch plays .. ISO on every offensive-possession from Payton/Rose or Randle, or RJ, or IQ, or Obi, and the only reason for passing the ball because they got a tough defender on them .. Wsup? As a team our winning offense depends on 3-ball shooting! We shoot to many 3-balls a game! When u watch NBA TV games u will notice a lot of good teams lose games mainly from their 3-ball shooting, and the Knicks has been in the top LOSER by shooting below 30% from 3-ball in games.
Every Knicks player cant shoot 3-BALLS !!!

And Noel missing 4 easy putbacks, plus letting a injury-prone Magic team own the paint on offense/defense for 30 minute. Why didnt we trade for Bamba when Magic had him on the trade-table in the offseason.

Gibson need to help Rose and IQ create a couple of Pick&Role plays for him and Obi, and let Burks run on the perimeter for open catch n shoot.

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:It was a game where we should’ve stayed with our bigger guards—- Payton and Barrett and relied on our smaller guys even as the ship be sinkin. In the future we may have to adjust against bigger teams

Disagree. How much does length bother you when you can get off 22 shots? The question should be why did Thibs go with them when RJ and Payton were shooting better? Cant be plus/minus. Rose and IQ were two of the worst on the team in that last night.

With the chemistry and success that they (IQ and Rose) have showed so far, it's understandable as to why he went that route.

Maybe. But a better question than their length? Agree that sometimes coaches go with feel. However, think this was one of very few bad feel calls for Thibs. Seemed like a homer fandom move than a experienced coach move.

I think its the opposite. Thibs is all about consistency and as an experience coach, having consistent subs and lineups brings stability to a team. The down side of this coaching stability is the lack of adjustability during certain match-ups. I do agree that Payton and RJ shouldve been in the game a little longer and finished the 4th, based on what the sub did or didn't do in that 2nd quarter. As thibs said, when he subbed in Rose and IQ in the 2nd half, they lost that 10 pt lead and never recovered.

Our problem is the same as b4. Our makes or misses dictates our defensive efficiency and mental toughness on the defensive end.

If I was the coach, I would've came up with a game plan to play against a taller lineup, vs bringing 2 small guards off the bench, in Rose and IQ....against a team that has a 6'7 PG who easily posted Payton in the post.. what do u think he would do against Ross or IQ? I believe if only 1 of them came in, with a traditional SG type size player, the outcome would've been different. IQ was exposed on defense and thigs pulled him out early. IQ missed all his shots from that point on. Im still a huge fan, but he clearly can't handle certain defensive match-ups at PG or SG. And as a rookie, his confidence can get shaky real easy. Hopefully this was a good learning lesson for both players and coaches.

Thibs has been consistent in that he has gone with the hot hands down the stretch. Especially at the PG position. He failed to do that last night. Considering it was obvious Rose and IQ did not have it going.

As for our problem. It's not as complicated. When we do not hit outside/3 pt. shots we lose. Which is the case for any team. From HS to the Pros. Think there is too much thought that goes on trying to figure why guys are missing shots. For all that have played the game you know there are nights you cant miss and nights you cant hit wide open shots. Fact is they just did not hit their shots last night. This whole thread would not have been constructed if they did.

Agree with your reply. I was only speaking on my experience how your legs are connected to your jump shot. Maybe it's just me, but I doubt it. I've always over analyzing certain things, since that's my job and how I'm wired. So when I started missing shots or making shots, I'm always asking myself why. And majority of the time it was my legs. Outside or just screwing around and not getting any sleep.

But you are right that we over analyze and sometimes it comes down to just missing shots. I would like this team to find ways to win games when they are missing shots. Like the old defensive teams in the 80s/90s. Maybe that's too much to ask for, in this offensive era these players grew up in.