Knicks · Lonzo and... (page 2)
TheGame wrote:What Lonzo brings is a pass first PG who can run the fast break and setup other players at a high level. Payton is a decent passer but he is not Lonzo’s level as a passer and neither is Rose or IQ. Lonzo would be an instant upgrade in facilitating more passing with the starters and now that he has improved his 3pt shot, defenses cannot play off of him like to do Payton. Plus, Lonzo has the height to play off ball with IQ, who I think will turn into a Jamal Crawford/Lou Williams type scorer, but who is probably not going to run the offense as a full time pg. This summer’s goal should be to sign Lonzo (3-4 year deal), resign Noel (2-3 year deal) and probably resign Burke’s and/or Bullock (1-2 year deals). I then probably package Frank with Knox and one of our first rounders to move up in the draft, since our picks will likely be in the 15-22 range.
Sounds about right.
Unless we have to give the pelicans 2 picks and a player for Lonzo UFA
It would come down to a bidding war with other teams and I do t think we want to spend more than 20m on him.
I think ball would put the Knicks as a top 3 destination. if he really wants ny he would take 17m
But yea there will be games played for his services between the pelicans and teams interested in him.
xblvdels3 wrote:TheGame wrote:What Lonzo brings is a pass first PG who can run the fast break and setup other players at a high level. Payton is a decent passer but he is not Lonzo’s level as a passer and neither is Rose or IQ. Lonzo would be an instant upgrade in facilitating more passing with the starters and now that he has improved his 3pt shot, defenses cannot play off of him like to do Payton. Plus, Lonzo has the height to play off ball with IQ, who I think will turn into a Jamal Crawford/Lou Williams type scorer, but who is probably not going to run the offense as a full time pg. This summer’s goal should be to sign Lonzo (3-4 year deal), resign Noel (2-3 year deal) and probably resign Burke’s and/or Bullock (1-2 year deals). I then probably package Frank with Knox and one of our first rounders to move up in the draft, since our picks will likely be in the 15-22 range.Sounds about right.
Unless we have to give the pelicans 2 picks and a player for Lonzo bird rights.
He is a restricted FA. We just have to sign him and hope New Orleans doesn’t match. We may be able to workout a sign and trade but those type deals in restricted free agency usually only require a second round pick and maybe a player because the former team does not have much leverage (if they are talking trade then they probably were not going to match the contract anyway so they have little leverage to demand more). I think Lonzo would be worth a salary in the $17-$20 million a year range. $17 million a year is an ideal deal but we are probably going to have to do a slight overplay to get him.
TheGame wrote:xblvdels3 wrote:TheGame wrote:What Lonzo brings is a pass first PG who can run the fast break and setup other players at a high level. Payton is a decent passer but he is not Lonzo’s level as a passer and neither is Rose or IQ. Lonzo would be an instant upgrade in facilitating more passing with the starters and now that he has improved his 3pt shot, defenses cannot play off of him like to do Payton. Plus, Lonzo has the height to play off ball with IQ, who I think will turn into a Jamal Crawford/Lou Williams type scorer, but who is probably not going to run the offense as a full time pg. This summer’s goal should be to sign Lonzo (3-4 year deal), resign Noel (2-3 year deal) and probably resign Burke’s and/or Bullock (1-2 year deals). I then probably package Frank with Knox and one of our first rounders to move up in the draft, since our picks will likely be in the 15-22 range.Sounds about right.
Unless we have to give the pelicans 2 picks and a player for Lonzo bird rights.
He is a restricted FA. We just have to sign him and hope New Orleans doesn’t match. We may be able to workout a sign and trade but those type deals in restricted free agency usually only require a second round pick and maybe a player because the former team does not have much leverage (if they are talking trade then they probably were not going to match the contract anyway so they have little leverage to demand more).
Good info. Thanks
TheGame wrote:xblvdels3 wrote:TheGame wrote:What Lonzo brings is a pass first PG who can run the fast break and setup other players at a high level. Payton is a decent passer but he is not Lonzo’s level as a passer and neither is Rose or IQ. Lonzo would be an instant upgrade in facilitating more passing with the starters and now that he has improved his 3pt shot, defenses cannot play off of him like to do Payton. Plus, Lonzo has the height to play off ball with IQ, who I think will turn into a Jamal Crawford/Lou Williams type scorer, but who is probably not going to run the offense as a full time pg. This summer’s goal should be to sign Lonzo (3-4 year deal), resign Noel (2-3 year deal) and probably resign Burke’s and/or Bullock (1-2 year deals). I then probably package Frank with Knox and one of our first rounders to move up in the draft, since our picks will likely be in the 15-22 range.Sounds about right.
Unless we have to give the pelicans 2 picks and a player for Lonzo bird rights.
He is a restricted FA. We just have to sign him and hope New Orleans doesn’t match. We may be able to workout a sign and trade but those type deals in restricted free agency usually only require a second round pick and maybe a player because the former team does not have much leverage (if they are talking trade then they probably were not going to match the contract anyway so they have little leverage to demand more). I think Lonzo would be worth a salary in the $17-$20 million a year range. $17 million a year is an ideal deal but we are probably going to have to do a slight overplay to get him.
I think they might match to keep him as an asset. He could be used in a trade down the road.
Jmpasq wrote:TheGame wrote:xblvdels3 wrote:TheGame wrote:What Lonzo brings is a pass first PG who can run the fast break and setup other players at a high level. Payton is a decent passer but he is not Lonzo’s level as a passer and neither is Rose or IQ. Lonzo would be an instant upgrade in facilitating more passing with the starters and now that he has improved his 3pt shot, defenses cannot play off of him like to do Payton. Plus, Lonzo has the height to play off ball with IQ, who I think will turn into a Jamal Crawford/Lou Williams type scorer, but who is probably not going to run the offense as a full time pg. This summer’s goal should be to sign Lonzo (3-4 year deal), resign Noel (2-3 year deal) and probably resign Burke’s and/or Bullock (1-2 year deals). I then probably package Frank with Knox and one of our first rounders to move up in the draft, since our picks will likely be in the 15-22 range.Sounds about right.
Unless we have to give the pelicans 2 picks and a player for Lonzo bird rights.
He is a restricted FA. We just have to sign him and hope New Orleans doesn’t match. We may be able to workout a sign and trade but those type deals in restricted free agency usually only require a second round pick and maybe a player because the former team does not have much leverage (if they are talking trade then they probably were not going to match the contract anyway so they have little leverage to demand more). I think Lonzo would be worth a salary in the $17-$20 million a year range. $17 million a year is an ideal deal but we are probably going to have to do a slight overplay to get him.
I think they might match to keep him as an asset. He could be used in a trade down the road.
A poison pill type of contract is very possible. And if Pels match it's not going to be a very tradable asset
xblvdels3 wrote:The Knicks have 4 picks this year. Either we are getting Lonzo ball or we will use all our picks to move up.
im ok with that. I'm not sure if its enough to get a top tier player.
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I think he ends ups on the Bulls
I don’t know if our FO wants him and how much, but as far as it looks, there have been no serious contacts before the deadline and in fact the only rumor is the one placed by his camp that NY is one of his preferred destinations.
He is RFA this summer, but I'm afraid the team that wants to bring him that way will have to overpay a lot.
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I'm all in for Ball. I just think he's the perfect PG to add for this team. His age puts him on the same timeline. New Orleans being so cheap benefits teams like the Knicks. Randle, Barrett, Quickley, Ball, and possibly Mitch would be a fantastic core.
Few things here. Lonzo can accept the QO and be free in one more year. Ball is young, he can do this. If he has his mind set on NY or CHI and both have assets for a trade, or sign and trade its in Pels interests to do this and for the teams bidding on him not over pay either by trade or salary.
With draft picks of unknown placement it makes sense to do a deal in the off season once the order is set and parameters are known. Bulls can say the same about Markkanen who also is in a similar situation.
Nalod wrote:
Few things here. Lonzo can accept the QO and be free in one more year. Ball is young, he can do this. If he has his mind set on NY or CHI and both have assets for a trade, or sign and trade its in Pels interests to do this and for the teams bidding on him not over pay either by trade or salary.
With draft picks of unknown placement it makes sense to do a deal in the off season once the order is set and parameters are known. Bulls can say the same about Markkanen who also is in a similar situation.
Everyone can do it the moment their rookie contract expires, but in the end it turns out everyone still values the security of a 4-year contract more than the QO and the “freedom” to do what they want after that season.
xblvdels3 wrote:you never answered my question. Is Ball worth that? Is Lonzo Ball as good as Lowry or Mike Conley? Are the Knicks competing for a title after paying Lonzo $100mm?fishmike wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Is Ball worth that? You are banking heavily that his upward trend continues.GustavBahler wrote:Lets say Knicks sign Lonzo for the 20 million a year he wants. Who do we bring back who is coming off the books? Who else should the FO pursue in free agency?Mitch/Noel would be a great anchor for the D, going forward. Hope we can bring Noel back.
They will match at 20 million
Ball is an excellent defender. Very good rebounding guard. Very good passer.
First time in 4 years he's averaging respectable shooting %s
Would be a good fit at PG for Thibs with his defense and size
Not a good half court player.
Doesnt create his own shot
Never gets to the FT line
Offense consists of shooting 3s at varying successIs this the player you want to throw $100mm+ at?
Lonzo is good at $15mm ish. He's a role player. Supporting cast and he's only OK at that.
Ok ayo dosunmo it is then at pick 15
OrTell me your pg we can get that is over the hill that you are a fan of?
Dosunmo or rose starts since your very concerned over a down hill pg
And have iq and ball at the 1 and 2 off the bench lol problem solved (sarcasm)Reasons for ball.(not in order)
1. Has to fit timeline to be an asset we could potential ship in a monster trade down the line
2. Has to fit timeline of group
3. We are looking to be good for 2020-2033 not 2020-2023
4. Nobody said Lonzo is our savior offensively.
5. We will be signing another all star caliber player
6. If he can sustain his current level of production and get slightly better, that’s exactly what we need
7 if we ge ball we will trade 2 picks and players to be named at draft. This will free 3 million of cap so really he would cost us 17m because we didn’t sign 2 rookie picksWhich would leave 30m + available for the next 2 seasons to find our perfect blend
Or trade all 4 picks and like Knox and Toppin and move up to get suggs
OrAyo dosunmo and rose it is!
OrYour over the hill vet you have in mind?
I understand all your reasons and he fills a position of need. The question is how well does he fill that and is he worth the cost?
His current level of production is NOT worth what it takes to sign him, unless you are banking on him taking a Julius Randle type of leap
xavier wrote:Nalod wrote:
Few things here. Lonzo can accept the QO and be free in one more year. Ball is young, he can do this. If he has his mind set on NY or CHI and both have assets for a trade, or sign and trade its in Pels interests to do this and for the teams bidding on him not over pay either by trade or salary.
With draft picks of unknown placement it makes sense to do a deal in the off season once the order is set and parameters are known. Bulls can say the same about Markkanen who also is in a similar situation.Everyone can do it the moment their rookie contract expires, but in the end it turns out everyone still values the security of a 4-year contract more than the QO and the “freedom” to do what they want after that season.
He has some form of leverage if he wants to take the risk. KP held it over our heads and he was traded. No team wants to test the resolve of a player nor pay a disgruntled one big money. Might as well trade them sooner than later. Injury also lowers trade value. No two scenarios are the same.
Any player can take this leap of faith. Few do.
Question outside of rumors how bad do the knicks want Lonzo?
xavier wrote:I’m actually pretty surprised the Bulls weren’t a little more aggressive and tried to bring him in before the deadline. But who knows, maybe they did, but the Pelicans asked for way too much.I don’t know if our FO wants him and how much, but as far as it looks, there have been no serious contacts before the deadline and in fact the only rumor is the one placed by his camp that NY is one of his preferred destinations.
He is RFA this summer, but I'm afraid the team that wants to bring him that way will have to overpay a lot.
I don't know how a fan makes that type of statement
smackeddog wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/TheHoopCentral/status/1376235550143770627?s=19
Click here to view the TweetI think he ends ups on the Bulls
Unless Bulls are offering Coby White in a S&T, they don’t have much cap flexibility this summer to make it work. Possible but the numbers arnt in their favor. Also I’d be a bit skeptical of the words of some NBA agent.
Believe this offseason we're going to see Rose try to put his own stamp on the roster with some big FA signings, easier if we're a playoff team.
I think there is a good chance that Lonzo will be one of them. Seems to be mutual interest.
GustavBahler wrote:So far, this roster was built mostly by Perry. Im sure Rose wants to put his own stamp on the team. He was very smart not to make changes like past execs, just to put their own stamp on the team. Wether it really made sense,or not.Believe this offseason we're going to see Rose try to put his own stamp on the roster with some big FA signings, easier if we're a playoff team.
I think there is a good chance that Lonzo will be one of them. Seems to be mutual interest.
“I’m sure”....how is that come to be? I mean there is a logical process of picks, trades, and FA’s but the notion of putting his own stamp on it for the sake of it is not really logical given a teams record is what matters. Dolan hired Leon with the thought and knowledge he’d revamp the whole organization at some Point. Leon comes in and just a few weeks later Covid shuts it down. Free agency, the draft, the whole summer process got out of kilter and there was no normalcy. Made perfect sense keep Perry around and perfect sense for Perry to not relate his family. what happens going forward? I don’t know. Leon might love Perry and want to keep him, or maybe Toronto hires him away when Masai goes off to work for U.N. Save the world. I have no idea.
Leon bought in all his own people and over time they will put their stamp on it but not for ego sake, but the logical process of making decisions. If they were ego driven and impatient that would not be the mark of a good executive. Given the circumstances last spring of Covid that would have been even worse.