Knicks · Free agency can't come soon enough, Lonzo Ball is the answer (page 1)

He would completely unlock this team. The slowest team in the league would get a jolt without sacrificing what has been working. Ball brings ball movement, 3pt shooting, defense and versatility. He's young enough where maybe he can develop similar to Randle in terms of growth as he gets into his mid 20s. He's a strong fit next to Randle and Barrett because he can open up the floor but also get out on the break and we can take advantage of Randle and Barrett's downhill abilities that get under-utilized right now.

If the Knicks really wanted to go all-in this summer they could sign both Ball and DeRozan and see where that gets them, but I don't think we necessarily should rush the process. Add Ball, run it back and see where we stand. Ball is a RFA, so the contract will have to be big, and we may have to settle on a sign-and-trade and deal an asset, but it's worth it. Ball replacing Payton in the line-up with the rest remaining the same makes too much sense. And Ball can easily play alongside Rose or Quickley in smaller lineups, something Payton can't do. Ball has become a strong defensive player and has even fixed his free throw shooting. Adding him would just be too perfect.

This is a continuation of the discussion in the Derozan thread. Agree that Lonzo and Derozan could be a game changer. Derozan's ability to get buckets, and share the rock outweighs what negatives he might have on D.

The addition of these two players, while bringing most of the rotation back (and Mitch) Thats a squad good enough to get to the ECF IMO. Brooklyn has to worry more about their stars being healthy than we would, Im guessing. Could come down to them missing a star or two when it matters.

We would have a DPOY level defender at the 5, and All-Star level talent (RJ and Lonzo getting there) at the other spots.

GustavBahler wrote:This is a continuation of the discussion in the Derozan thread. Agree that Lonzo and Derozan could be a game changer. Derozan's ability to get buckets, and share the rock outweighs what negatives he might have on D.

The addition of these two players, while bringing most of the rotation back (and Mitch) Thats a squad good enough to get to the ECF IMO. Brooklyn has to worry more about their stars being healthy than we would, Im guessing. Could come down to them missing a star or two when it matters.

We would have a DPOY level defender at the 5, and All-Star level talent (RJ and Lonzo getting there) at the other spots.

C Mitch
PF Randle
SF DeRozan
SG Barrett
PG Ball

with Noel, Rose, Quickley, Bullock, Toppin, and a couple rookies off the bench would be serious. Just not sure about DeRozan give age and fit. But he would provide a closer we don't have now.

I like Derozan a lot. He can carry your scoring load most nights and playing next to Randle/RJ he would be lethal. Lonzo is a role player. He's good but overpaying role players rarely works out. That being said you pay big hoping his game (especially offense) has some levels it can still get to.

Knicks would have the space to sign both I believe. It would cost bringing some guys back like Noel and Burks. I think Bullock might get a close to MLE offer but if not maybe we bring him back at some modest deal. Taj will come back on a veteran min. Rose should come back because the NBA money doesnt really matter with his Adidas contract, he just needs to be in the league.

team would looks like this:
PG Ball
SG RJ
SF Derozan
PF Randle
C Mitch
Bench: Rose, IQ, Obi, Knox, Taj, FRP, FRP

I agree 1000% Ball should be our top priority! I have always like DeRozan but he should be the second or third choice because of the direction of the league. I don't think you have to conform completely to shooting threes but you do need a few three-point shooters in your line up at least to spread the floor.

Knixkik wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:This is a continuation of the discussion in the Derozan thread. Agree that Lonzo and Derozan could be a game changer. Derozan's ability to get buckets, and share the rock outweighs what negatives he might have on D.

The addition of these two players, while bringing most of the rotation back (and Mitch) Thats a squad good enough to get to the ECF IMO. Brooklyn has to worry more about their stars being healthy than we would, Im guessing. Could come down to them missing a star or two when it matters.

We would have a DPOY level defender at the 5, and All-Star level talent (RJ and Lonzo getting there) at the other spots.

C Mitch
PF Randle
SF DeRozan
SG Barrett
PG Ball

with Noel, Rose, Quickley, Bullock, Toppin, and a couple rookies off the bench would be serious. Just not sure about DeRozan give age and fit. But he would provide a closer we don't have now.

dont think Noel/Bullock come back if you add Ball/DD... dont see those economic working out. Still have cap holds for the picks and Ball/DD are gonna cost you $55mm at least eating up everything but the low level stuff. I dont think the MLE is available if you had cap space first.

fishmike wrote:I like Derozan a lot. He can carry your scoring load most nights and playing next to Randle/RJ he would be lethal. Lonzo is a role player. He's good but overpaying role players rarely works out. That being said you pay big hoping his game (especially offense) has some levels it can still get to.

Knicks would have the space to sign both I believe. It would cost bringing some guys back like Noel and Burks. I think Bullock might get a close to MLE offer but if not maybe we bring him back at some modest deal. Taj will come back on a veteran min. Rose should come back because the NBA money doesnt really matter with his Adidas contract, he just needs to be in the league.

team would looks like this:
PG Ball
SG RJ
SF Derozan
PF Randle
C Mitch
Bench: Rose, IQ, Obi, Knox, Taj, FRP, FRP

Lonzo is a role player but I think he has some more upside. Plus I believe his impact exceeds role player status. He just does so many things well. The shooting was the biggest concern and he's addressed it. DeRozan isn't a great fit but with Randle shooting 40% from 3 and Barrett shooting 38% it sort of expands the options with this team. Not too long ago the biggest concern was this team not making sense with Randle, Barrett, and Mitch in a line-up together because of lack of spacing, but those concerns are pretty much out the window now.

Man RJ Barret shooting 38 percent from 3!! Sweet!! The work is paying off.

If that stroke is legit expect 20ppg next yeAr

Get consistent with the 3 and mid range then your talking about all star by the time he is 23

Oh yea definetly ball this summer 20m

Just be 14ppg 4 rebounds 6 assist knock down your open 3 unlock Mitch and obi and that’s what we need. We need a floor general who can tell Randle go to your spot dude lol I got this. You don’t need to be dribbling up the court 😅

The final piece we get has to be able to get buckets and close games.

If we get the right guy we will have enough talent to compete in the eastern conference finals for a long time

Also who we draft is important this year. We need to solidify our bench with guys who Thibs will feel comfortable with playing lol

Here is the thing. We have 4 picks. Most likely we are not keeping all 4

But 1 out of 3 has to be legit. Someone Thibs is confident in and is ready to go.

We are looking for a legit role player who can eat second units. If he turns into a all star that’s a great and a bonus!

We are approaching the part of the rebuild where we need (talent)

Lonzo is an RFA. What would it take to get him?

xblvdels3 wrote:Man RJ Barret shooting 38 percent from 3!! Sweet!! The work is paying off.

If that stroke is legit expect 20ppg next yeAr

Get consistent with the 3 and mid range then your talking about all star by the time he is 23

Oh yea definetly ball this summer 20m

Just be 14ppg 4 rebounds 6 assist knock down your open 3 unlock Mitch and obi and that’s what we need. We need a floor general who can tell Randle go to your spot dude lol I got this. You don’t need to be dribbling up the court 😅

The final piece we get has to be able to get buckets and close games.

If we get the right guy we will have enough talent to compete in the eastern conference finals for a long time

Also who we draft is important this year. We need to solidify our bench with guys who Thibs will feel comfortable with playing lol

Here is the thing. We have 4 picks. Most likely we are not keeping all 4

But 1 out of 3 has to be legit. Someone Thibs is confident in and is ready to go.

We are looking for a legit role player who can eat second units. If he turns into a all star that’s a great and a bonus!

We are approaching the part of the rebuild where we need (talent)

The way I see it is there are 2 legit options this summer:

1. Go all-in on Ball and DeRozan (or some combination of 2 major free agents) and pay them both 20-25 mil per season. You can probably retain Bullock and Rose using their bird rights (having low salaries) and extend Mitch, and replace Burks and Noel via the draft. With Randle also extension-eligible, this is basically the way the team puts in all of their chips before making tough decisions on Randle and/or Mitch in terms of extension offers so all cap space is out the window but you can easily keep your best players.

2. Just grab 1 player like Ball for 20-25 mil per season and continue to stay flexible. Keep the players out of Rose, Bullock, Burks, and Noel willing to come back for 1 year again (like Payton did) or on a discounted multi-year deal. Push off the Mitch decision for another year (and risk losing him next summer as a UFA) and either try to lock Randle at his max extension which would be a discount for what he's probably worth, or just wait until next year. It keeps the books clean for a major free agent in the future and options open. But that plan eventually loses value because eventually you will have to pay Randle, Barrett, Mitch etc or risk losing them. This plan only works best if L Rose feels confident in landing someone specific within the next year or two.

I think what it comes down to is whether or not Rose feels like he can LaVine or Beal next summer or if he likes DeRozan and Ball. We know he likes Ball. DeRozan i'm not sure, we will have to see.

NYKBocker wrote:Lonzo is an RFA. What would it take to get him?

Guessing Brogdon and VanVleet type money. 4 years 85-90 mil. That is to steal him from the Pelicans.

fishmike wrote:I like Derozan a lot. He can carry your scoring load most nights and playing next to Randle/RJ he would be lethal. Lonzo is a role player. He's good but overpaying role players rarely works out. That being said you pay big hoping his game (especially offense) has some levels it can still get to.

Knicks would have the space to sign both I believe. It would cost bringing some guys back like Noel and Burks. I think Bullock might get a close to MLE offer but if not maybe we bring him back at some modest deal. Taj will come back on a veteran min. Rose should come back because the NBA money doesnt really matter with his Adidas contract, he just needs to be in the league.

team would looks like this:
PG Ball
SG RJ
SF Derozan
PF Randle
C Mitch
Bench: Rose, IQ, Obi, Knox, Taj, FRP, FRP

^^^ This , improves our team and is realistic of who we can sign ..

BillTheButcher wrote:

fishmike wrote:I like Derozan a lot. He can carry your scoring load most nights and playing next to Randle/RJ he would be lethal. Lonzo is a role player. He's good but overpaying role players rarely works out. That being said you pay big hoping his game (especially offense) has some levels it can still get to.

Knicks would have the space to sign both I believe. It would cost bringing some guys back like Noel and Burks. I think Bullock might get a close to MLE offer but if not maybe we bring him back at some modest deal. Taj will come back on a veteran min. Rose should come back because the NBA money doesnt really matter with his Adidas contract, he just needs to be in the league.

team would looks like this:
PG Ball
SG RJ
SF Derozan
PF Randle
C Mitch
Bench: Rose, IQ, Obi, Knox, Taj, FRP, FRP

^^^ This , improves our team and is realistic of who we can sign ..

I agree. We can also keep Bullock using his bird rights.

C Mitch/ Gibson
PF Randle/ Toppin
SF DeRozan/ Bullock
SG Barrett/ Quickley
PG Ball/ Rose

with our 2 first round picks and early second round pick rounding things out. Realistically I see us drafting a wing, PG, and big man in some order. Roster spots 14 and 15 go to a vet bigman and our hypeman Pinson. 2-way spots for a couple of prospects. I think Knox and Ntilikina are likely gone.

NYKBocker wrote:Lonzo is an RFA. What would it take to get him?

We have covers this a lot in other chats on the board. Basically it will be a front office playoff this off-season between the Knicks and pelicans.

Maybe we get him for just making an offer or maybe we have to give up a pick or something more.

Knixkik wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:Man RJ Barret shooting 38 percent from 3!! Sweet!! The work is paying off.

If that stroke is legit expect 20ppg next yeAr

Get consistent with the 3 and mid range then your talking about all star by the time he is 23

Oh yea definetly ball this summer 20m

Just be 14ppg 4 rebounds 6 assist knock down your open 3 unlock Mitch and obi and that’s what we need. We need a floor general who can tell Randle go to your spot dude lol I got this. You don’t need to be dribbling up the court 😅

The final piece we get has to be able to get buckets and close games.

If we get the right guy we will have enough talent to compete in the eastern conference finals for a long time

Also who we draft is important this year. We need to solidify our bench with guys who Thibs will feel comfortable with playing lol

Here is the thing. We have 4 picks. Most likely we are not keeping all 4

But 1 out of 3 has to be legit. Someone Thibs is confident in and is ready to go.

We are looking for a legit role player who can eat second units. If he turns into a all star that’s a great and a bonus!

We are approaching the part of the rebuild where we need (talent)

The way I see it is there are 2 legit options this summer:

1. Go all-in on Ball and DeRozan (or some combination of 2 major free agents) and pay them both 20-25 mil per season. You can probably retain Bullock and Rose using their bird rights (having low salaries) and extend Mitch, and replace Burks and Noel via the draft. With Randle also extension-eligible, this is basically the way the team puts in all of their chips before making tough decisions on Randle and/or Mitch in terms of extension offers so all cap space is out the window but you can easily keep your best players.

2. Just grab 1 player like Ball for 20-25 mil per season and continue to stay flexible. Keep the players out of Rose, Bullock, Burks, and Noel willing to come back for 1 year again (like Payton did) or on a discounted multi-year deal. Push off the Mitch decision for another year (and risk losing him next summer as a UFA) and either try to lock Randle at his max extension which would be a discount for what he's probably worth, or just wait until next year. It keeps the books clean for a major free agent in the future and options open. But that plan eventually loses value because eventually you will have to pay Randle, Barrett, Mitch etc or risk losing them. This plan only works best if L Rose feels confident in landing someone specific within the next year or two.

I think what it comes down to is whether or not Rose feels like he can LaVine or Beal next summer or if he likes DeRozan and Ball. We know he likes Ball. DeRozan i'm not sure, we will have to see.

We are on the same page as far as direction

Knixkik wrote:

BillTheButcher wrote:

fishmike wrote:I like Derozan a lot. He can carry your scoring load most nights and playing next to Randle/RJ he would be lethal. Lonzo is a role player. He's good but overpaying role players rarely works out. That being said you pay big hoping his game (especially offense) has some levels it can still get to.

Knicks would have the space to sign both I believe. It would cost bringing some guys back like Noel and Burks. I think Bullock might get a close to MLE offer but if not maybe we bring him back at some modest deal. Taj will come back on a veteran min. Rose should come back because the NBA money doesnt really matter with his Adidas contract, he just needs to be in the league.

team would looks like this:
PG Ball
SG RJ
SF Derozan
PF Randle
C Mitch
Bench: Rose, IQ, Obi, Knox, Taj, FRP, FRP

^^^ This , improves our team and is realistic of who we can sign ..

I agree. We can also keep Bullock using his bird rights.

C Mitch/ Gibson
PF Randle/ Toppin
SF DeRozan/ Bullock
SG Barrett/ Quickley
PG Ball/ Rose

with our 2 first round picks and early second round pick rounding things out. Realistically I see us drafting a wing, PG, and big man in some order. Roster spots 14 and 15 go to a vet bigman and our hypeman Pinson. 2-way spots for a couple of prospects. I think Knox and Ntilikina are likely gone.

Yes pinson is crucial haha 😂

Knixkik wrote:

BillTheButcher wrote:

fishmike wrote:I like Derozan a lot. He can carry your scoring load most nights and playing next to Randle/RJ he would be lethal. Lonzo is a role player. He's good but overpaying role players rarely works out. That being said you pay big hoping his game (especially offense) has some levels it can still get to.

Knicks would have the space to sign both I believe. It would cost bringing some guys back like Noel and Burks. I think Bullock might get a close to MLE offer but if not maybe we bring him back at some modest deal. Taj will come back on a veteran min. Rose should come back because the NBA money doesnt really matter with his Adidas contract, he just needs to be in the league.

team would looks like this:
PG Ball
SG RJ
SF Derozan
PF Randle
C Mitch
Bench: Rose, IQ, Obi, Knox, Taj, FRP, FRP

^^^ This , improves our team and is realistic of who we can sign ..

I agree. We can also keep Bullock using his bird rights.

C Mitch/ Gibson
PF Randle/ Toppin
SF DeRozan/ Bullock
SG Barrett/ Quickley
PG Ball/ Rose

with our 2 first round picks and early second round pick rounding things out. Realistically I see us drafting a wing, PG, and big man in some order. Roster spots 14 and 15 go to a vet bigman and our hypeman Pinson. 2-way spots for a couple of prospects. I think Knox and Ntilikina are likely gone.

No complaints about Bullock or Gibson, but I would make Noel a priority. Cant undersell what having Mitch and Noel at the 5 can do for our playoff aspirations. Teams would have a hard time driving on us, with no respite when Mitch rests.

If he opts out, I prefer Kawhi & Lonzo. Where would that put the Knicks then?

How about Lonzo and Jarrett Allen?

Then move Obi, Mitch, Knox, 4 first rounders and a pick swap for Bradley Beal.

NYStateOfMind wrote:If he opts out, I prefer Kawhi & Lonzo. Where would that put the Knicks then?

In a lucid dream that I never want wake up from.

GustavBahler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BillTheButcher wrote:

fishmike wrote:I like Derozan a lot. He can carry your scoring load most nights and playing next to Randle/RJ he would be lethal. Lonzo is a role player. He's good but overpaying role players rarely works out. That being said you pay big hoping his game (especially offense) has some levels it can still get to.

Knicks would have the space to sign both I believe. It would cost bringing some guys back like Noel and Burks. I think Bullock might get a close to MLE offer but if not maybe we bring him back at some modest deal. Taj will come back on a veteran min. Rose should come back because the NBA money doesnt really matter with his Adidas contract, he just needs to be in the league.

team would looks like this:
PG Ball
SG RJ
SF Derozan
PF Randle
C Mitch
Bench: Rose, IQ, Obi, Knox, Taj, FRP, FRP

^^^ This , improves our team and is realistic of who we can sign ..

I agree. We can also keep Bullock using his bird rights.

C Mitch/ Gibson
PF Randle/ Toppin
SF DeRozan/ Bullock
SG Barrett/ Quickley
PG Ball/ Rose

with our 2 first round picks and early second round pick rounding things out. Realistically I see us drafting a wing, PG, and big man in some order. Roster spots 14 and 15 go to a vet bigman and our hypeman Pinson. 2-way spots for a couple of prospects. I think Knox and Ntilikina are likely gone.

No complaints about Bullock or Gibson, but I would make Noel a priority. Cant undersell what having Mitch and Noel at the 5 can do for our playoff aspirations. Teams would have a hard time driving on us, with no respite when Mitch rests.

Noel is a priority if we only get 1 big free agent. Maybe we can squeeze him into the mid level, but we don't have his bird rights, so he's only likely if we sign just one big name. If we only sign Ball, we can bring him back easily. If we sign Ball and DeRozan, i'm not sure how we do.