Rest of year and let him work through it. Payton stop gap but quickly isn’t even playing pg off the bench. He’s playing a 14 min Lou Williams role. I think mathematically were in the top 10 so let’s play Quickley at pg to start games. Could he be worse than Payton? Payton has been brutal
IDK IQ's PH looks a bit low. lol
Seriously. Payton can be frustrating to watch, but he is a stopgap. Have to take the good with the bad. Rose is where he should be. Rose is playing this time around like a real PG. Quickley is playing like Rose did his first time in NY. Looking mostly to score. Thats fine. Thats his role, not starting PG.
Quickley can learn plenty from playing with Rose. Seeing how he alternates between setting up teammates, and attacking.
Dont believe he's skilled, or big enough to defend elite PGs. Not as well as Payton. He isnt the answer at PG. Besides, we're trying to make the playoffs. Dont believe starting IQ will give us a better chance to get there. No way Thibs lets up to develop a potential starting PG of the future.
He’s not ready
Like others have said, he has tunnel vision and his efficiency has fallen through the floor in the last 20 games. Teams lock him down, and they go directly at him on defense.
I would rather start D Rose.
GustavBahler wrote:<snip>
Dont believe he's skilled, or big enough to defend elite PGs. <snip>
No one, I mean no one does a good job consistently defending against these elite PGs (except Frank Ntilikina, if he gets minutes!!!). You just hope to contain them by having the person guarding them be the sacrificial lamb, while trying to stop them from doing damage with passing.
I think he has the basic tools to do it - he has *enough* anticipation, lateral quickness, and strength. The top PGs come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. Some are little speedsters, some are large power bruisers, others are masters of using picks and shifty dribbling to find space. There's no one magical prototypical way to defend them all. His greatest area to improve his defensive skills - he'll be learning NBA-level techniques and tricks to counter all of these different styles - and simply, getting game experience against these types of attacks. And he'll need tutors (like Payton) to help him develop.
On offense, Quickley has a good feel for the pick and roll, plus he runs the plays and gets to his spots on the floor. That's a good start. But at the moment, if the defense covers well, his go-to read is to look for his own shot. He still has a lot of room to grow, but come on, he's a rookie averaging less than 20mpg. (tho this is a good reason why he's averaging less than 20mpg - and usually on the floor with another PG)
I think we could be looking at a very different player going into next season (after an off-season of development/NBA conditioning/studying tape/working with staff/summer league/training camp) - but yeah, I'm done lobbying him for him as PG *this* season.
I like him a lot but right now he is The Microwave 2.0.
Vmart wrote:A PG with tunnel vision.
Passing for IQ is definitely 3rd option for him, but then again does it matter seeing Randle controls the ball 85% of the time.
I gotta believe that's starting to take a toll on him, because by the end of games he's gassed Mentally and Physically
knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:A PG with tunnel vision.
Passing for IQ is definitely 3rd option for him, but then again does it matter seeing Randle controls the ball 85% of the time.
I gotta believe that's starting to take a toll on him, because by the end of games he's gassed Mentally and Physically
Randle hasn’t been same since hip pointer suffered.
he missed obi for a easy dunk yesterday. Poor obi lol. Sure you can force him to be a starting pg but he would essentially be learning on the job. I see a lot of mistakes he makes. He is not ready and that’s fine with me.
Let him develop with time by observing rose or who we pick up this summer.
By the time he is 26 he could be the starting pg
Right now he is our short lightweight combo guard who needs to deliver points for us off the bench.
xblvdels3 wrote:he missed obi for a easy dunk yesterday. Poor obi lol. Sure you can force him to be a starting pg but he would essentially be learning on the job. I see a lot of mistakes he makes. He is not ready and that’s fine with me.Let him develop with time by observing rose or who we pick up this summer.
By the time he is 26 he could be the starting pg
Right now he is our short lightweight combo guard who needs to deliver points for us off the bench.
Every one seems to miss Obi for easy points. We're not getting stellar playmaking from Payton anyway. Put Rose or IQ in. You can always sub Payton if the team needs his "stellar" defense.
technomaster wrote:GustavBahler wrote:<snip>
Dont believe he's skilled, or big enough to defend elite PGs. <snip>
No one, I mean no one does a good job consistently defending against these elite PGs (except Frank Ntilikina, if he gets minutes!!!)....
No one, I mean no one has been more anemic on offense over almost 4 seasons than Frank has. Doubt its even close. Its much too often 4 on 5 on offense. Cant say that about Payton on either side of the ball. Thats why Payton starts and Frank sits. Mistakes and all.
The offense never became anything but brief flashes. Coaches cant afford to count on vets like Frank for anything but situational D. Not sure why this is still debated.
GustavBahler wrote:technomaster wrote:GustavBahler wrote:<snip>
Dont believe he's skilled, or big enough to defend elite PGs. <snip>
No one, I mean no one does a good job consistently defending against these elite PGs (except Frank Ntilikina, if he gets minutes!!!)....
No one, I mean no one has been more anemic on offense over almost 4 seasons than Frank has. Doubt its even close. Its much too often 4 on 5 on offense. Cant say that about Payton on either side of the ball. Thats why Payton starts and Frank sits. Mistakes and all.
The offense never became anything but brief flashes. Coaches cant afford to count on vets like Frank for anything but situational D. Not sure why this is still debated.
Would have liked to see ntlikina disrupt luka or kyrie for a minute or two (atkeast try)
His fielding might be questionable, but I'd rather not waste IQ's developmental years on pinch hitting.
Serioulsy, I'd rather just start Rose and spell him with Quickley, or even play them together for long stretches. Burn this rookie wall down with minutes.
Anything to get people to stop whining about Satan.
technomaster wrote:GustavBahler wrote:<snip>
Dont believe he's skilled, or big enough to defend elite PGs. <snip>
No one, I mean no one does a good job consistently defending against these elite PGs (except Frank Ntilikina, if he gets minutes!!!). You just hope to contain them by having the person guarding them be the sacrificial lamb, while trying to stop them from doing damage with passing.
I think he has the basic tools to do it - he has *enough* anticipation, lateral quickness, and strength. The top PGs come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. Some are little speedsters, some are large power bruisers, others are masters of using picks and shifty dribbling to find space. There's no one magical prototypical way to defend them all. His greatest area to improve his defensive skills - he'll be learning NBA-level techniques and tricks to counter all of these different styles - and simply, getting game experience against these types of attacks. And he'll need tutors (like Payton) to help him develop.
On offense, Quickley has a good feel for the pick and roll, plus he runs the plays and gets to his spots on the floor. That's a good start. But at the moment, if the defense covers well, his go-to read is to look for his own shot. He still has a lot of room to grow, but come on, he's a rookie averaging less than 20mpg. (tho this is a good reason why he's averaging less than 20mpg - and usually on the floor with another PG)
I think we could be looking at a very different player going into next season (after an off-season of development/NBA conditioning/studying tape/working with staff/summer league/training camp) - but yeah, I'm done lobbying him for him as PG *this* season.
He has a frickin 6'10 wingspan. I don't get why Quickley is painted as to small
Absolutely love IQ and more versatile than given credit for
He shouldn't start at pg yet though. He's more of a basketball player period than a specific guard position
Rose could but i think the issue is he is better coming off the bench where his court leadership is needed more for second unit
One thing Rose should get credit for. He is VERY decisive. He gets the ball and everything is straight up, Put pressure on D, etc
Payton dawdles. the one time i saw him try and imitate Rose and push the ball he lost the ball out of bounds and literally fell on his face. Then when he gets up court. He dawdles some more so we're trying to get a quality shot in last 10s and the defense has been resting for the prior 14 knowing our options have been cut way down by then. He's the most over rated, under rated player i have seen. he's not close to under rated. He deserves all the criticism he gets and then some
Jmpasq wrote:technomaster wrote:GustavBahler wrote:<snip>
Dont believe he's skilled, or big enough to defend elite PGs. <snip>
No one, I mean no one does a good job consistently defending against these elite PGs (except Frank Ntilikina, if he gets minutes!!!). You just hope to contain them by having the person guarding them be the sacrificial lamb, while trying to stop them from doing damage with passing.
I think he has the basic tools to do it - he has *enough* anticipation, lateral quickness, and strength. The top PGs come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. Some are little speedsters, some are large power bruisers, others are masters of using picks and shifty dribbling to find space. There's no one magical prototypical way to defend them all. His greatest area to improve his defensive skills - he'll be learning NBA-level techniques and tricks to counter all of these different styles - and simply, getting game experience against these types of attacks. And he'll need tutors (like Payton) to help him develop.
On offense, Quickley has a good feel for the pick and roll, plus he runs the plays and gets to his spots on the floor. That's a good start. But at the moment, if the defense covers well, his go-to read is to look for his own shot. He still has a lot of room to grow, but come on, he's a rookie averaging less than 20mpg. (tho this is a good reason why he's averaging less than 20mpg - and usually on the floor with another PG)
I think we could be looking at a very different player going into next season (after an off-season of development/NBA conditioning/studying tape/working with staff/summer league/training camp) - but yeah, I'm done lobbying him for him as PG *this* season.
He has a frickin 6'10 wingspan. I don't get why Quickley is painted as to small
agreed, and his defense is fine.
i think the issue is right now his energy is needed on the second unit and in the fourth. He needs a longer leash and more minutes.
These posts are a cautionary tale on reacting to the immediate.
No matter how exciting it is to have Quick and him being impressive in earlier games, truth for this season has settled: he is a good shooter that is still developing in other areas and is inconsistent on them as most rookies are.
So no matter how bad Payton looks, he is the starting PG we have to live with. Rose would be the clear starter 10 years ago, but now he is a weapon on limited playing time. Quick at this point of his development isn’t a PG, much less the one we need to maximize the offense in the starting lineup.
So it is what it is. Whether I’d give Quick more minutes or not, truth is he is where he has to be at this stage of his career, on the bench.
Knicksfan wrote:These posts are a cautionary tale on reacting to the immediate.No matter how exciting it is to have Quick and him being impressive in earlier games, truth for this season has settled: he is a good shooter that is still developing in other areas and is inconsistent on them as most rookies are.
So no matter how bad Payton looks, he is the starting PG we have to live with. Rose would be the clear starter 10 years ago, but now he is a weapon on limited playing time. Quick at this point of his development isn’t a PG, much less the one we need to maximize the offense in the starting lineup.
So it is what it is. Whether I’d give Quick more minutes or not, truth is he is where he has to be at this stage of his career, on the bench.
I think if given a chance quickly can probably do as much as payton.
BRIGGS wrote:Knicksfan wrote:These posts are a cautionary tale on reacting to the immediate.No matter how exciting it is to have Quick and him being impressive in earlier games, truth for this season has settled: he is a good shooter that is still developing in other areas and is inconsistent on them as most rookies are.
So no matter how bad Payton looks, he is the starting PG we have to live with. Rose would be the clear starter 10 years ago, but now he is a weapon on limited playing time. Quick at this point of his development isn’t a PG, much less the one we need to maximize the offense in the starting lineup.
So it is what it is. Whether I’d give Quick more minutes or not, truth is he is where he has to be at this stage of his career, on the bench.
I think if given a chance quickly can probably do as much as payton.
Dude you're tripping.
When both Rose and Payton were out that was the opportunity to make a statement, don't make it easy for the coach to pull you.
Burks makes it almost impossible to pull him in the 4th
