Knicks · Does Dolan deserve any credit? (page 2)

I’d say the accolades are as follows

Julius Randle
Derrick rose
Thibs( who likely was responsible for derrick rose
Whoever hired thibs whether Perry or l rose
Then Dolan as he takes the blame when shts been bed x10 so he gets a kudos here

Owners get measured by two metrics:

Do they spend?
Do they meddle?

Spending's never been an issue. As long as Dolan keeps his nose out of everything, I have no qualms about voting him Most Improved Owner. Embrace your role!

BRIGGS wrote:I’d say the accolades are as follows

Julius Randle
Derrick rose
Thibs( who likely was responsible for derrick rose
Whoever hired thibs whether Perry or l rose
Then Dolan as he takes the blame when shts been bed x10 so he gets a kudos here

how about lets talk about what actually happened rather than guess?

Randle is a CAA guy... remember the whole "oh no, we are gonna be a CAA dumping ground " ???

Sorry, I got sidetracked.

Randle is a CAA guy and BEFORE Rose was hired last year they (Randle/Leon/WWWes) were out at dinner and Randle said he needed a coach who would push him and hold him accountable.

Mills is gone and Leon is hired. Leon brings in WWWes as the right hand guy and retains Perry.

Next step hiring a HC. At this point its Leon's turn to shine and he does. If you are dishing out credit its Leon. Randle/DRose/Thibs are doing their jobs. What makes its stick is synergy and Leon has executed with incredible precision.

He accurately gauged the talent on the current roster:
-Patient with Randle
-Patient with RJ
-Brings Elf back for 1/2 price
-Brings Bullock back
-Backs up Mitch with Noel
-Burks on 1 year deal

Hires Thibs. Builds out staff with nice mix of developmental (Kenny Payne) and pro (Woodson) and Thib's own guys he relies on. Thibs comes in, establishes this culture and immediately bonds with Randle.

Leon has a good draft
IQ/Obi

Dumps DSrj for DRose and grabs Taj (Rose move great, Taj move my 8 year old could execute)

And now we have the 8th best record in the NBA and are fighting for home court.

Despite being an "antiquated retread" Thibs has done and is doing some of the best coaching I have seen in the NBA. Most of us did not think this possible, yet most of those same doubters not only believe it but see it as sustainable. He's done this with the complete and total backing of the FO who in Leon executed the big moves and the little ones like a chess master working the board.

I cant wait for this offseason.

Dolan writes the checks and we blamed him for a lot. I did.
Dolan rightfully blamed as the architect for our misery.
He deserves some cred for hiring Leon no matter what. Most of the “CAA”thing was thought of as nefarious act of under minded evil.
“Fuck Dolan” but at the same time he writes the checks that Leon and his group take to the bank. We don’t credit him for his hard work. Nobody is taking a thing away from Thibs. Thats on Leon!!!

Nalod wrote:Dolan writes the checks and we blamed him for a lot. I did.
Dolan rightfully blamed as the architect for our misery.
He deserves some cred for hiring Leon no matter what. Most of the “CAA”thing was thought of as nefarious act of under minded evil.
“Fuck Dolan” but at the same time he writes the checks that Leon and his group take to the bank. We don’t credit him for his hard work. Nobody is taking a thing away from Thibs. Thats on Leon!!!

Is the season enough for you to reverse your name?

You can’t have it both ways with blaming Dolan when we lose, but not give him any credit when we win.

So yes, he does deserve credit.

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:it 100% was lucky. You think Dolan found Leon and recruited him? What was lucky was the job came open at a time when Leon/Thibs were open to coming here and doing it right. Lucky because in most other years those guys would have commitments that made it not an option.

When you phuck something up over and over again and fall into the right choice its luck.

That logic is kinda ridiculous. You can apply that to every non-inside hire ever made. So the Warriors were lucky because the job was available when Steve Kerr was open to be their coach? So KC was lucky because Andy Reid got fired the year they needed to hire a coach? So just ignore that there were a zillion other directions those teams could've gone, but they chose the option that led to championships?

same logic thing you are doing. You ignore 6 bad decisions because the last one worked? No its still shit decision making.

You want me to give Dolan credit for sitting back and doing nothing? OK. Thanks Jimmy!

Again, your logic/thinking is very flawed. The question wasn't how do you analyze Dolan's tenure as an owner. THAT is when you pull out the score card and list the checks and minuses and factor in the "6 bad decisions" he made. THAT wasn't the question.

The question was does he get credit for the current success? If you failed the CPA exam six previous times but passed it on the seventh try, you don't say "well, you failed it the first six times so you don't get credit for passing it on the seventh try." You're addressing an issue that wasn't asked.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:Dolan writes the checks and we blamed him for a lot. I did.
Dolan rightfully blamed as the architect for our misery.
He deserves some cred for hiring Leon no matter what. Most of the “CAA”thing was thought of as nefarious act of under minded evil.
“Fuck Dolan” but at the same time he writes the checks that Leon and his group take to the bank. We don’t credit him for his hard work. Nobody is taking a thing away from Thibs. Thats on Leon!!!

Is the season enough for you to reverse your name?

Ha! 2 1/2 years on the board and now I get it!

KnickDanger wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:Dolan writes the checks and we blamed him for a lot. I did.
Dolan rightfully blamed as the architect for our misery.
He deserves some cred for hiring Leon no matter what. Most of the “CAA”thing was thought of as nefarious act of under minded evil.
“Fuck Dolan” but at the same time he writes the checks that Leon and his group take to the bank. We don’t credit him for his hard work. Nobody is taking a thing away from Thibs. Thats on Leon!!!

Is the season enough for you to reverse your name?

Ha! 2 1/2 years on the board and now I get it!

lol

KnickDanger wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:Dolan writes the checks and we blamed him for a lot. I did.
Dolan rightfully blamed as the architect for our misery.
He deserves some cred for hiring Leon no matter what. Most of the “CAA”thing was thought of as nefarious act of under minded evil.
“Fuck Dolan” but at the same time he writes the checks that Leon and his group take to the bank. We don’t credit him for his hard work. Nobody is taking a thing away from Thibs. Thats on Leon!!!

Is the season enough for you to reverse your name?

Ha! 2 1/2 years on the board and now I get it!

I have not thought about this in a long time actually.
Dolan gets it backwards. Lets just say it was not meant as a compliment.

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I’d say the accolades are as follows

Julius Randle
Derrick rose
Thibs( who likely was responsible for derrick rose
Whoever hired thibs whether Perry or l rose
Then Dolan as he takes the blame when shts been bed x10 so he gets a kudos here

how about lets talk about what actually happened rather than guess?

Randle is a CAA guy... remember the whole "oh no, we are gonna be a CAA dumping ground " ???

Sorry, I got sidetracked.

Randle is a CAA guy and BEFORE Rose was hired last year they (Randle/Leon/WWWes) were out at dinner and Randle said he needed a coach who would push him and hold him accountable.

Mills is gone and Leon is hired. Leon brings in WWWes as the right hand guy and retains Perry.

Next step hiring a HC. At this point its Leon's turn to shine and he does. If you are dishing out credit its Leon. Randle/DRose/Thibs are doing their jobs. What makes its stick is synergy and Leon has executed with incredible precision.

He accurately gauged the talent on the current roster:
-Patient with Randle
-Patient with RJ
-Brings Elf back for 1/2 price
-Brings Bullock back
-Backs up Mitch with Noel
-Burks on 1 year deal

Hires Thibs. Builds out staff with nice mix of developmental (Kenny Payne) and pro (Woodson) and Thib's own guys he relies on. Thibs comes in, establishes this culture and immediately bonds with Randle.

Leon has a good draft
IQ/Obi

Dumps DSrj for DRose and grabs Taj (Rose move great, Taj move my 8 year old could execute)

And now we have the 8th best record in the NBA and are fighting for home court.

Despite being an "antiquated retread" Thibs has done and is doing some of the best coaching I have seen in the NBA. Most of us did not think this possible, yet most of those same doubters not only believe it but see it as sustainable. He's done this with the complete and total backing of the FO who in Leon executed the big moves and the little ones like a chess master working the board.

I cant wait for this offseason.

So the theory of owner relativity is thus: anything bad happens, it's Jimmie's fault. Anything good happens and it's just Jimmie managing to find gold floating in a backed up toilet.

Everyone else involved in good things are just "gone" (Mills), managerially brilliant, "shiny", "doing their jobs", or engaged in "accurate gauging".

Yeah fish. Might want to just slow the roll on the full tilt rich-little-douche-owner-hate. You're not sounding all that coherent.
Luck doesn't exist.

“We’ve gotten great support from our owner,” Thibodeau said. “He’s given us everything we asked for.’’

No. Next question.

Bruh.

1. LeonRose for signing Quickley

2. World Wide Wes for having a great nickname

3. Tom Thibodeau for bringing the competitive playoff fire

BRIGGS wrote:I’d say the accolades are as follows

Julius Randle
Derrick rose
Thibs( who likely was responsible for derrick rose
Whoever hired thibs whether Perry or l rose
Then Dolan as he takes the blame when shts been bed x10 so he gets a kudos here

misterearl wrote:Bruh.

1. LeonRose for signing Quickley

2. World Wide Wes for having a great nickname

3. Tom Thibodeau for bringing the competitive playoff fire

BRIGGS wrote:I’d say the accolades are as follows

Julius Randle
Derrick rose
Thibs( who likely was responsible for derrick rose
Whoever hired thibs whether Perry or l rose
Then Dolan as he takes the blame when shts been bed x10 so he gets a kudos here

If you believe some of the reports, you might have to credit WWW for IQ too. Sounded like he was the one really pushing for him on draft night while Obi was Leon's guy.

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:it 100% was lucky. You think Dolan found Leon and recruited him? What was lucky was the job came open at a time when Leon/Thibs were open to coming here and doing it right. Lucky because in most other years those guys would have commitments that made it not an option.

When you phuck something up over and over again and fall into the right choice its luck.

That logic is kinda ridiculous. You can apply that to every non-inside hire ever made. So the Warriors were lucky because the job was available when Steve Kerr was open to be their coach? So KC was lucky because Andy Reid got fired the year they needed to hire a coach? So just ignore that there were a zillion other directions those teams could've gone, but they chose the option that led to championships?

same logic thing you are doing. You ignore 6 bad decisions because the last one worked? No its still shit decision making.

You want me to give Dolan credit for sitting back and doing nothing? OK. Thanks Jimmy!

Again, your logic/thinking is very flawed. The question wasn't how do you analyze Dolan's tenure as an owner. THAT is when you pull out the score card and list the checks and minuses and factor in the "6 bad decisions" he made. THAT wasn't the question.

The question was does he get credit for the current success? If you failed the CPA exam six previous times but passed it on the seventh try, you don't say "well, you failed it the first six times so you don't get credit for passing it on the seventh try." You're addressing an issue that wasn't asked.

"do you get credit...?" It took you 7 tries to pass the CPA exam and you want credit? No. That is some gold star kindergarten bullshit. You can come to me for credit when you're paying your own bills with that accounting gig you landed. Until then its embarrassing not something you to get credit for. Thats something you dont mention until years later lol. Jimmy can have credit when the Knicks are a successful franchise for more than the 10 minutes he chose to not fuck it up.

How's that logic? Sorry you dont like my answer but I am quite comfortable with it.

I’m sure Winston Wolf would say something more akin to “we ain’t out of the woods” if since the media is gushing about our turn around the question was posed.

“Any credit”? Yes, he gets partial, just like any other time good or bad. Him and Oak don’t contribute to losing unless its cultural but thats abstract. Spike? Not a thing for on court. Dolan hired Leon. He gets partial credit for the change in culture.
Pass the CPA on the 10th try, your a CPA. It might show fortitude and persistency to take it so many times. Participation is just showing up. Dolan need not do heavy lifting but lift his pen. He did. he gets Partial credit.

Is this Rangers debacle Dolan's way of balancing the force?

Dolan OK"d the hiring of Perry, which got us off the treadmill. Hired Rose, who moved the franchise forward. Strictly speaking yes, Dolan deserves credit. Just sorry it took him so long to figure out who to listen to.

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

fishmike wrote:it 100% was lucky. You think Dolan found Leon and recruited him? What was lucky was the job came open at a time when Leon/Thibs were open to coming here and doing it right. Lucky because in most other years those guys would have commitments that made it not an option.

When you phuck something up over and over again and fall into the right choice its luck.

That logic is kinda ridiculous. You can apply that to every non-inside hire ever made. So the Warriors were lucky because the job was available when Steve Kerr was open to be their coach? So KC was lucky because Andy Reid got fired the year they needed to hire a coach? So just ignore that there were a zillion other directions those teams could've gone, but they chose the option that led to championships?

same logic thing you are doing. You ignore 6 bad decisions because the last one worked? No its still shit decision making.

You want me to give Dolan credit for sitting back and doing nothing? OK. Thanks Jimmy!

Again, your logic/thinking is very flawed. The question wasn't how do you analyze Dolan's tenure as an owner. THAT is when you pull out the score card and list the checks and minuses and factor in the "6 bad decisions" he made. THAT wasn't the question.

The question was does he get credit for the current success? If you failed the CPA exam six previous times but passed it on the seventh try, you don't say "well, you failed it the first six times so you don't get credit for passing it on the seventh try." You're addressing an issue that wasn't asked.

"do you get credit...?" It took you 7 tries to pass the CPA exam and you want credit? No. That is some gold star kindergarten bullshit. You can come to me for credit when you're paying your own bills with that accounting gig you landed. Until then its embarrassing not something you to get credit for. Thats something you dont mention until years later lol. Jimmy can have credit when the Knicks are a successful franchise for more than the 10 minutes he chose to not fuck it up.

How's that logic? Sorry you dont like my answer but I am quite comfortable with it.

Again your logic is utterly ridiculous. Maybe read up on how many billionaires failed numerous times before finding success. Guess they don't deserve credit when they finally get it right either, huh? smh!

Nalod wrote:
Pass the CPA on the 10th try, your a CPA. It might show fortitude and persistency to take it so many times. Participation is just showing up. Dolan need not do heavy lifting but lift his pen. He did. he gets Partial credit.

He don't get it.

0

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Pass the CPA on the 10th try, your a CPA. It might show fortitude and persistency to take it so many times. Participation is just showing up. Dolan need not do heavy lifting but lift his pen. He did. he gets Partial credit.

He don't get it.

Neither do you. Dolan did not create the “Billions”, he inherited from his dad. He has earned all his bad press and then some. Granted he did sell Cablevison at the right time so as chairman he gets partial credit for not fucking it up.
I never faulted him for not giving Riley equity as it was not entirely his to give and the structure of cooperation as it was might have not been that easy. Aronson in Miami had a far simplier set up and he made a really good deal to bring on Riles. But Dolan moving on from Checketts was trying to prove a point that he failed at miserably. We can go on and on.
But, as stated if he takes much blame he gets some credit even if the odds were in our favor that eventually we’d right ship.
Dolan post Isiah with Walsh and steppping over him to make the melo deal as it was set up the team for another decade in ineptitude. Hiring PHil was a good attempt I don’t blame him for. That was just bad luck. The KP thing was bad luck. Fiz was bad luck. Bad Karma perhaps?
We not out of the woods yet with this.

By the way, Love the statement from his office about head of player safety and getting fined!!!!
Dude is showing spunk. Got pissed off nobody defended his guys, fired them, and is pissed off!!!! They got Drury but will they bring in Messier?