Knicks · Cameron Payne (page 3)

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:In the last 4 games against the lakers in rd 2 he’s avg

16-4-4 with 9 threes and shooting 50% with limited turnovers in 25 minutes.

That would be a series changer here imho.

Yeah, except we have a different team, different roster, different coach and a different system and you can't assume the results would be the same here. Just look at what Austin Rivers is doing in Denver compared to how he played here.

Also, what happened to all of those Andre Drummond supporters who were begging us to pick him up?

I’m not sure but didn’t Phoenix whoop us? I think they were 2 Nd in the league in wins? So whatever style of play they are using seems to work very well. Payne has played very well— that’s the bottom line.

Exactly, it works well for THEM and THEIR roster. Can't assume if you just plug him in here you'd get the same results. That's the bottom line. Certainly an upgrade over Payton but more because anybody is an upgrade over Payton.

So I guess you can say the same thing for any other player on any other team that’s not a knick🥸
I think he’s a good player on a very good team.

He has proven to be a good fit for Phoenix after bouncing around the league for four years. Countless examples of similar players who get big contracts, are expected to duplicate the same production in a bigger role playing more minutes, and they get exposed. At least a guy like Terry Rozier had the opportunity to carry a team in the playoffs.

Terry rozier is a wildcard player. Most of his career he has shot a low %. He’s not really a pg per se. has a big salary and wouod cost us BOTH our cap space and all draft picks. He commands 16-18 shots a game — just a huge costly unknown. I’d rather keep my picks and offer Payne a full mle contract

franco12 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:In the last 4 games against the lakers in rd 2 he’s avg

16-4-4 with 9 threes and shooting 50% with limited turnovers in 25 minutes.

That would be a series changer here imho.

Yeah, except we have a different team, different roster, different coach and a different system and you can't assume the results would be the same here. Just look at what Austin Rivers is doing in Denver compared to how he played here.

Also, what happened to all of those Andre Drummond supporters who were begging us to pick him up?

I’m not sure but didn’t Phoenix whoop us? I think they were 2 Nd in the league in wins? So whatever style of play they are using seems to work very well. Payne has played very well— that’s the bottom line.

Exactly, it works well for THEM and THEIR roster. Can't assume if you just plug him in here you'd get the same results. That's the bottom line. Certainly an upgrade over Payton but more because anybody is an upgrade over Payton.

So I guess you can say the same thing for any other player on any other team that’s not a knick🥸
I think he’s a good player on a very good team.

He has proven to be a good fit for Phoenix after bouncing around the league for four years. Countless examples of similar players who get big contracts, are expected to duplicate the same production in a bigger role playing more minutes, and they get exposed. At least a guy like Terry Rozier had the opportunity to carry a team in the playoffs.

but he is 26 and that is when players start to figure things out, especially PGs.

Who exactly are we signing this off season? We desperately need help at the PG spot, this guy looks like he could be a huge upgrade over what we have.

Who knows, he might come here and with Thibs turn into an even better player.

Welpee wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:In the last 4 games against the lakers in rd 2 he’s avg

16-4-4 with 9 threes and shooting 50% with limited turnovers in 25 minutes.

That would be a series changer here imho.

Yeah, except we have a different team, different roster, different coach and a different system and you can't assume the results would be the same here. Just look at what Austin Rivers is doing in Denver compared to how he played here.

Also, what happened to all of those Andre Drummond supporters who were begging us to pick him up?

I’m not sure but didn’t Phoenix whoop us? I think they were 2 Nd in the league in wins? So whatever style of play they are using seems to work very well. Payne has played very well— that’s the bottom line.

Exactly, it works well for THEM and THEIR roster. Can't assume if you just plug him in here you'd get the same results. That's the bottom line. Certainly an upgrade over Payton but more because anybody is an upgrade over Payton.

So I guess you can say the same thing for any other player on any other team that’s not a knick🥸
I think he’s a good player on a very good team.

He has proven to be a good fit for Phoenix after bouncing around the league for four years. Countless examples of similar players who get big contracts, are expected to duplicate the same production in a bigger role playing more minutes, and they get exposed. At least a guy like Terry Rozier had the opportunity to carry a team in the playoffs.

but he is 26 and that is when players start to figure things out, especially PGs.

Who exactly are we signing this off season? We desperately need help at the PG spot, this guy looks like he could be a huge upgrade over what we have.

Who knows, he might come here and with Thibs turn into an even better player.

To be clear, I'm not opposed to acquiring Payne. I'm just saying it's risky signing a guy like Payne for a lot of money thinking what he produced playing 18 mins you can multiply over 30+ mins. Also, it's a lot different being a starter versus coming off the bench knowing you have Chris Paul as your safety net.

He’s an mle— no more. But he’s going to get that for sure. I think that’s 3 years 24 million?

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:In the last 4 games against the lakers in rd 2 he’s avg

16-4-4 with 9 threes and shooting 50% with limited turnovers in 25 minutes.

That would be a series changer here imho.

Yeah, except we have a different team, different roster, different coach and a different system and you can't assume the results would be the same here. Just look at what Austin Rivers is doing in Denver compared to how he played here.

Also, what happened to all of those Andre Drummond supporters who were begging us to pick him up?

I’m not sure but didn’t Phoenix whoop us? I think they were 2 Nd in the league in wins? So whatever style of play they are using seems to work very well. Payne has played very well— that’s the bottom line.

Exactly, it works well for THEM and THEIR roster. Can't assume if you just plug him in here you'd get the same results. That's the bottom line. Certainly an upgrade over Payton but more because anybody is an upgrade over Payton.

So I guess you can say the same thing for any other player on any other team that’s not a knick🥸
I think he’s a good player on a very good team.

He has proven to be a good fit for Phoenix after bouncing around the league for four years. Countless examples of similar players who get big contracts, are expected to duplicate the same production in a bigger role playing more minutes, and they get exposed. At least a guy like Terry Rozier had the opportunity to carry a team in the playoffs.

but he is 26 and that is when players start to figure things out, especially PGs.

Who exactly are we signing this off season? We desperately need help at the PG spot, this guy looks like he could be a huge upgrade over what we have.

Who knows, he might come here and with Thibs turn into an even better player.

To be clear, I'm not opposed to acquiring Payne. I'm just saying it's risky signing a guy like Payne for a lot of money thinking what he produced playing 18 mins you can multiply over 30+ mins. Also, it's a lot different being a starter versus coming off the bench knowing you have Chris Paul as your safety net.

He’s an mle— no more. But he’s going to get that for sure. I think that’s 3 years 24 million?

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:In the last 4 games against the lakers in rd 2 he’s avg

16-4-4 with 9 threes and shooting 50% with limited turnovers in 25 minutes.

That would be a series changer here imho.

Yeah, except we have a different team, different roster, different coach and a different system and you can't assume the results would be the same here. Just look at what Austin Rivers is doing in Denver compared to how he played here.

Also, what happened to all of those Andre Drummond supporters who were begging us to pick him up?

I’m not sure but didn’t Phoenix whoop us? I think they were 2 Nd in the league in wins? So whatever style of play they are using seems to work very well. Payne has played very well— that’s the bottom line.

Exactly, it works well for THEM and THEIR roster. Can't assume if you just plug him in here you'd get the same results. That's the bottom line. Certainly an upgrade over Payton but more because anybody is an upgrade over Payton.

So I guess you can say the same thing for any other player on any other team that’s not a knick🥸
I think he’s a good player on a very good team.

He has proven to be a good fit for Phoenix after bouncing around the league for four years. Countless examples of similar players who get big contracts, are expected to duplicate the same production in a bigger role playing more minutes, and they get exposed. At least a guy like Terry Rozier had the opportunity to carry a team in the playoffs.

but he is 26 and that is when players start to figure things out, especially PGs.

Who exactly are we signing this off season? We desperately need help at the PG spot, this guy looks like he could be a huge upgrade over what we have.

Who knows, he might come here and with Thibs turn into an even better player.

To be clear, I'm not opposed to acquiring Payne. I'm just saying it's risky signing a guy like Payne for a lot of money thinking what he produced playing 18 mins you can multiply over 30+ mins. Also, it's a lot different being a starter versus coming off the bench knowing you have Chris Paul as your safety net.

He’s an mle— no more. But he’s going to get that for sure. I think that’s 3 years 24 million?

It's about 3 years $18M to approximately $30M depending on whether or not the team is over the cap. Three years /$9 seems about right for Payne. Maybe give him a Payton type deal for a year. But, honestly, Payton did a helluva more in the league when the Knicks signed him.

BRIGGS wrote:
He’s an mle— no more. But he’s going to get that for sure. I think that’s 3 years 24 million?

Aligning practical projection against actual market value, I'd ballpark Payne as worth 2/12 with the second year a team option with a 1 million dollar buyout. Guarantee him the starting job if he hits certain benchmarks of production in the preseason and he'll take 2/9 or 2/10. For a guy in Payne's situation, starting and locked in playing time is worth more than upfront money. He's on the cusp of staying in journeyman status and this is likely his one shot to reset the way the league looks at him and values him.

Could he get more on the open market? Maybe. It's hard to say at this point.

3/24 is a MCC and is cap poison.

Dennis Smith Jr was a functional plan in theory. Pick up a young guy as a small piece in a much larger deal that nets assets and see if he can give you some value. The Knicks have lots of cap space. In whatever 3 to 4 team trade they get involved in, maybe they can pick up a young player who can help and save some cap space to boot. Or have more cap space to "rent" to get some assets.

What you pay Payne is mitigated against the value of renting that cap space. That's not a small question, it's actually a big question.

Briggs, you've seen me post for a long time here. If I say 3/24 is too much to keep a cap sheet clean, then it's honestly too much. I'm all for value, but let's try to see what can be had on a practical budget.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/3164...

He's looked good, but he has three stud young players, CP3 and Crowder out there.

Can't over pay role players unless you're close knocking on the door.

MS wrote:These are the signings that fuck kill teams.

He's looked good, but he has three stud young players, CP3 and Crowder out there.

Can't over pay role players unless you're close knocking on the door.

It’s been a nice chance to take a look at him in the playofffs. He hasn’t played as effectively post season to regular but he certainly belongs — but he hasn’t earned 8 mm here.

MS wrote:These are the signings that fuck kill teams.

He's looked good, but he has three stud young players, CP3 and Crowder out there.

Can't over pay role players unless you're close knocking on the door.

I keep reading ppl posting about overpaying players to come here, well i don't see that happening here at all, not with A Cap Guru in BROC, an ex super agent in Leon, and super communicator in Wesley.

If anything i see the opposite

knicks1248 wrote:

MS wrote:These are the signings that fuck kill teams.

He's looked good, but he has three stud young players, CP3 and Crowder out there.

Can't over pay role players unless you're close knocking on the door.

I keep reading ppl posting about overpaying players to come here, well i don't see that happening here at all, not with A Cap Guru in BROC, an ex super agent in Leon, and super communicator in Wesley.

If anything i see the opposite

I agree with both of you.

Over paying role players...is tricky. I'm learning what the knicks did when they over paid all those forwards, to short term deals. That's a different strategy that has worked for us.

Sometimes u over pay a key player on a short term deal and hope he's the key impact player that brings u a chip like kawhi did in Toronto....or further in the playoffs. But I don't see Payne as that impactful or missing link. I do like his scoring and confidence. But with CP out....we get to see how Payne looks as a starter now.

blkexec wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

MS wrote:These are the signings that fuck kill teams.

He's looked good, but he has three stud young players, CP3 and Crowder out there.

Can't over pay role players unless you're close knocking on the door.

I keep reading ppl posting about overpaying players to come here, well i don't see that happening here at all, not with A Cap Guru in BROC, an ex super agent in Leon, and super communicator in Wesley.

If anything i see the opposite

I agree with both of you.

Over paying role players...is tricky. I'm learning what the knicks did when they over paid all those forwards, to short term deals. That's a different strategy that has worked for us.

Sometimes u over pay a key player on a short term deal and hope he's the key impact player that brings u a chip like kawhi did in Toronto ahhh nobody....lol....or further in the playoffs. But I don't see Payne as that impactful or missing link. I do like his scoring and confidence. But with CP out....we get to see how Payne looks as a starter now.

Welpee wrote:BRIGGS, when can we expect your thread on how we should trade for Kevin Huerter?

BRIGGS
Posts: 51664
Alba Posts: 8
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
6/8/2018 12:41 PM
This might be insanely controversial but Ive fallen in love with the player. I just love the shooting size and overall IQ. And maybe Briggs of last year and beyond would've taken Wendall Carter every day all day---Im taking
Kevin Huerter

smackeddog wrote:Reggie Jackson has been performing better, I'd say, and is probably a better fit for a Thibs type of PG. Though I'd still rather go for Rozier who has shown for 2 seasons running that his 3pt shot is legit and has some clutch potential.

I agree....sign him them up.

BRIGGS wrote:

Welpee wrote:BRIGGS, when can we expect your thread on how we should trade for Kevin Huerter?

3 years ago I had Trae Young Mikal Bridges and Huerter way above kevin know hated knox

BRIGGS
Posts: 51664
Alba Posts: 8
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
6/8/2018 12:41 PM
This might be insanely controversial but Ive fallen in love with the player. I just love the shooting size and overall IQ. And maybe Briggs of last year and beyond would've taken Wendall Carter every day all day---Im taking
Kevin Huerter

BRIGGS wrote:Payne looks darn good in wcf

Welpee wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Payne looks darn good in wcf

I'm still having Jerome James flashbacks.

Two games started
Averaging 20 points. 9 assist only 1 to in 2 games 3 steals 3 blocks hrs saved the suns year