Knicks · After sleeping on it (page 1)
Keep the core of guys as follows
Randle
Rj
Quickley
Obi
Mitch
Rose ( back up pg at the right price)
1 of bullock or burcks( I think I’m leaning burcks)
Goodbye to Noel( too expensive did not have the bounce needed against Atlanta)
Probably a goodbye to Gibson( good player but only as 4-5 big
Goodbye to frank Knox Payton
What we need
#1 size We need to use one of our picks or cap space on an athletic big man who can also score some
#2 pg I’ve advocated for Payne using mle. We get to watch him closely probably for another 8-12 games.
I’m well aware that we could try to go even higher here but I’m thinking the combo of Payne Rose draft pick will be a major improvement
#3 I’d like us to mix in a European player with size who can shoot pass dribble. Kind of like what he hawks have with bogdonavich 6-7 minimum height
#4 open to bigger deals even possible that include some core guys up top if it makes sense
#5 an athletic scrapper with two way skills. A jyd type. Last night I was upset how we were not getting to lose balls rebounds etc. Tgis should never happen and all teams need a scrappy player who sets tones
We have something but last night it was obvious we are not one player away nor two. Unless a trade presents a strange opportunity we will need a combination of our draft picks maybe a smart trade and good use of cap space to bring in 5-7 new guys who will help the team. We need more size— tgis series made that clear.
Bullock and burks can be replaced with a solid drafted player like (size and measurements counts)
Kispert
Duarte
Tre mann
Springer
Cam Thomas
Tre Murphy
Noel could be replaced by bassey but it will take 2 years for development.
Burks seems to be great 1/5 1/10 games he looks like an elite wing. The other 4 or 9 games it’s not much going on there. (Burks did win about 10 games for us his season)
Bullock is more stable but he disappears sometimes and bricks sometimes. He can’t dribble
He probably won us like 8-10 games as well
Both players were 40 percent from 3 this year. Both players will give you anywhere between 8-25 points with 25 points being once every 10 games and the 8 being 4/5 games
Fill their job with rookies or a cheaper alternative in free agency. Maybe keep 1
Noel
Burks
Bullock
I’d say keep 1.. who are we keeping?
I'd love to keep Burks, but where we improve is to simply find a better version of Burks, and start that player at either PG or wing (and Bullock goes to the bench.) Lowry, DeRozan, Powell via free agency or Brogdon, TJ Warren, Marcus Smart via trade. Someone who can go out and get buckets and provide secondary playmaking when needed, be it a PG or wing.
BRIGGS wrote:Here’s my thought process
Keep the core of guys as follows
Randle
Rj
Quickley
Obi
Mitch
Rose ( back up pg at the right price)
1 of bullock or burcks( I think I’m leaning burcks)
Goodbye to Noel( too expensive did not have the bounce needed against Atlanta)
Probably a goodbye to Gibson( good player but only as 4-5 big
Goodbye to frank Knox PaytonWhat we need
#1 size We need to use one of our picks or cap space on an athletic big man who can also score some
#2 pg I’ve advocated for Payne using mle. We get to watch him closely probably for another 8-12 games.
I’m well aware that we could try to go even higher here but I’m thinking the combo of Payne Rose draft pick will be a major improvement
#3 I’d like us to mix in a European player with size who can shoot pass dribble. Kind of like what he hawks have with bogdonavich 6-7 minimum height
#4 open to bigger deals even possible that include some core guys up top if it makes sense
#5 an athletic scrapper with two way skills. A jyd type. Last night I was upset how we were not getting to lose balls rebounds etc. Tgis should never happen and all teams need a scrappy player who sets tonesWe have something but last night it was obvious we are not one player away nor two. Unless a trade presents a strange opportunity we will need a combination of our draft picks maybe a smart trade and good use of cap space to bring in 5-7 new guys who will help the team. We need more size— tgis series made that clear.
1) I think we should keep Taj, just not in the role of a consistent, rotational player. His role needs to be the veteran, locker room, leadership guy (Herb Williams 2.0).
2) If Noel wants more than what he's getting now, see ya.
3) I'm now on board with Payne from the stand point of a) we unload Payton and Frank; b) he's viewed as a short term solution; c) we continue to pursue a prime time point guard, either this off season or next off season. To me he's an upgraded stop gap.
4) I think we can find replacements for Burks and Bullock if they both want more money.
Moonangie wrote:I think this round 1 performance demonstrated that neither Julius nor RJ are #1 scorers. They are both #2s. Until we get that primary scorer (e.g., Beal type) we will struggle to win first round series, let alone advance to ECF. Should we take care of getting our #1 first, and then find the complementary pieces?People keep talking about RJ like he's a finished product. He is a 20 year old 2nd year player.
Thinking role players and Cameron Payne is what the Knicks need is really exposing a lack of understanding of what drives winning an NBA title from you Briggs.
Knicks need all star caliber player(s) who can impose their will on the opposition. Without that you are watching your star get doubled and tripled and hoping like hell guys like Reggie Bullock (love him) get hot. Just ask Steph Curry.
Knicks have Randle/Mitch/RJ/IQ/Obi/Luka/Knox/Pele already signed and that's a fantastic start because they have the cap space to sign close to two max guys or absorb them that is a nice supporting cast right out of the gate.
Leon is targeting super star players. Derrick Rose even eluded to this when asked if he would be back. Said he would love to but the plans may be bigger than him.
fishmike wrote:you need another star. This is why fantastic players like Melo or KG have failed year after year in the playoffs... you must have other star players or at least a cast of just around all star caliber talent like Kawhi had with Lowry/Siakem/PowellI think we all know we need another star. The issue is how do you obtain one and what you have to give up to make it happen. I think you're misreading what people are saying. If you can't make a sensible deal to acquire a star, you continue to make incremental improvements to the roster as you wait for the opportunity to strike to get another star or develop you're own. We can probably make a deal for another star if we were willing to gut our assets, but what would that yield? Maybe getting bounced in the 2nd round instead of the 1st round?Thinking role players and Cameron Payne is what the Knicks need is really exposing a lack of understanding of what drives winning an NBA title from you Briggs.
Knicks need all star caliber player(s) who can impose their will on the opposition. Without that you are watching your star get doubled and tripled and hoping like hell guys like Reggie Bullock (love him) get hot. Just ask Steph Curry.
Knicks have Randle/Mitch/RJ/IQ/Obi/Luka/Knox/Pele already signed and that's a fantastic start because they have the cap space to sign close to two max guys or absorb them that is a nice supporting cast right out of the gate.
Leon is targeting super star players. Derrick Rose even eluded to this when asked if he would be back. Said he would love to but the plans may be bigger than him.
I don't think the goal is to build a championship team by next season. For a change, we need to start building the roster intelligently for the long term.
We need a pass first pg that makes life easier for our starters . Who can that PG be?
Spencer Dinwiddie
Lonzo Ball
I just don’t think this team should go after big money over the hill players like mike Conley jr or Kyle lowery
fitzfarm wrote:I think this team should really go after Norman Powell a perfect 3 and D who can also put the ball on the floor. Getting him in his prime years . You could resign burks or bullock to back him up.We need a pass first pg that makes life easier for our starters . Who can that PG be?
My "realistic" list has Powell and Ball in it. I mean, they are attainable if we open the wallet. Not necessarily a trade, although maybe with Ball.
Knicksfan wrote:fitzfarm wrote:I think this team should really go after Norman Powell a perfect 3 and D who can also put the ball on the floor. Getting him in his prime years . You could resign burks or bullock to back him up.We need a pass first pg that makes life easier for our starters . Who can that PG be?
My "realistic" list has Powell and Ball in it. I mean, they are attainable if we open the wallet. Not necessarily a trade, although maybe with Ball.
Playing for thibs might be exactly what both Powell and ball need to reach the next level. ESP with our player development coaches .
At first I wasn’t a fan of going after ball but considering his foundation, his core value as a pass first PG who’s a strong defensive player and a big PG who is only 23 years old . I think playing for thibs and having a mentor like rose takes him to a new level of play. The improved 3 is a nice plus as well.
The only question is will the pels let him walk?
fitzfarm wrote:I think the Pels are pretending they want to keep him to hopefully work out a sign and trade, but I think if backed into a corner they're not going to resign Ball for big money. They already have their PG of the future in Lewis and they're locked into paying Bledsoe $18M and $19M for the next couple of years. I just don't see it. If we really want Ball we can call their bluff. If they match, we move on. I'm not even entertaining a sign and trade unless they'll accept MINIMAL compensation (i.e. a 2nd round pick, at most the worst of our 1st round picks).Knicksfan wrote:fitzfarm wrote:I think this team should really go after Norman Powell a perfect 3 and D who can also put the ball on the floor. Getting him in his prime years . You could resign burks or bullock to back him up.We need a pass first pg that makes life easier for our starters . Who can that PG be?
My "realistic" list has Powell and Ball in it. I mean, they are attainable if we open the wallet. Not necessarily a trade, although maybe with Ball.
Playing for thibs might be exactly what both Powell and ball need to reach the next level. ESP with our player development coaches .
At first I wasn’t a fan of going after ball but considering his foundation, his core value as a pass first PG who’s a strong defensive player and a big PG who is only 23 years old . I think playing for thibs and having a mentor like rose takes him to a new level of play. The improved 3 is a nice plus as well.
The only question is will the pels let him walk?
fitzfarm wrote:Knicksfan wrote:fitzfarm wrote:I think this team should really go after Norman Powell a perfect 3 and D who can also put the ball on the floor. Getting him in his prime years . You could resign burks or bullock to back him up.We need a pass first pg that makes life easier for our starters . Who can that PG be?
My "realistic" list has Powell and Ball in it. I mean, they are attainable if we open the wallet. Not necessarily a trade, although maybe with Ball.
Playing for thibs might be exactly what both Powell and ball need to reach the next level. ESP with our player development coaches .
At first I wasn’t a fan of going after ball but considering his foundation, his core value as a pass first PG who’s a strong defensive player and a big PG who is only 23 years old . I think playing for thibs and having a mentor like rose takes him to a new level of play. The improved 3 is a nice plus as well.
The only question is will the pels let him walk?
I'm a fan of both Ball and Powell. The only issue is you're spending all your longterm dollars to get them and Randle is still our #1 option. Just feel we need to aim higher.
Moonangie wrote:I think this round 1 performance demonstrated that neither Julius nor RJ are #1 scorers. They are both #2s. Until we get that primary scorer (e.g., Beal type) we will struggle to win first round series, let alone advance to ECF. Should we take care of getting our #1 first, and then find the complementary pieces?
Yes to this. Neither RJ or Julius have the handle or ability to consistently get their own basket at a playoff level. And I don't know if that is a Yet or just at all. Having even a halfway decent passing PG would help both tremendously and probably unlock a little bit more scoring ease for each.
Welpee wrote:fitzfarm wrote:I think the Pels are pretending they want to keep him to hopefully work out a sign and trade, but I think if backed into a corner they're not going to resign Ball for big money. They already have their PG of the future in Lewis and they're locked into paying Bledsoe $18M and $19M for the next couple of years. I just don't see it. If we really want Ball we can call their bluff. If they match, we move on. I'm not even entertaining a sign and trade unless they'll accept MINIMAL compensation (i.e. a 2nd round pick, at most the worst of our 1st round picks).Knicksfan wrote:fitzfarm wrote:I think this team should really go after Norman Powell a perfect 3 and D who can also put the ball on the floor. Getting him in his prime years . You could resign burks or bullock to back him up.We need a pass first pg that makes life easier for our starters . Who can that PG be?
My "realistic" list has Powell and Ball in it. I mean, they are attainable if we open the wallet. Not necessarily a trade, although maybe with Ball.
Playing for thibs might be exactly what both Powell and ball need to reach the next level. ESP with our player development coaches .
At first I wasn’t a fan of going after ball but considering his foundation, his core value as a pass first PG who’s a strong defensive player and a big PG who is only 23 years old . I think playing for thibs and having a mentor like rose takes him to a new level of play. The improved 3 is a nice plus as well.
The only question is will the pels let him walk?
The big tell will be who they draft at #10. Davion Mitchell should be available with that spot and he would be another good pick for them regardless of Kira Lewis.
Knixkik wrote:fitzfarm wrote:Knicksfan wrote:fitzfarm wrote:I think this team should really go after Norman Powell a perfect 3 and D who can also put the ball on the floor. Getting him in his prime years . You could resign burks or bullock to back him up.We need a pass first pg that makes life easier for our starters . Who can that PG be?
My "realistic" list has Powell and Ball in it. I mean, they are attainable if we open the wallet. Not necessarily a trade, although maybe with Ball.
Playing for thibs might be exactly what both Powell and ball need to reach the next level. ESP with our player development coaches .
At first I wasn’t a fan of going after ball but considering his foundation, his core value as a pass first PG who’s a strong defensive player and a big PG who is only 23 years old . I think playing for thibs and having a mentor like rose takes him to a new level of play. The improved 3 is a nice plus as well.
The only question is will the pels let him walk?
I'm a fan of both Ball and Powell. The only issue is you're spending all your longterm dollars to get them and Randle is still our #1 option. Just feel we need to aim higher.
Yes.
Use cap space today with the possibility of trading players later or keep cap space and use it 1 year later.
Knicksfan wrote:fitzfarm wrote:I think this team should really go after Norman Powell a perfect 3 and D who can also put the ball on the floor. Getting him in his prime years . You could resign burks or bullock to back him up.We need a pass first pg that makes life easier for our starters . Who can that PG be?
My "realistic" list has Powell and Ball in it. I mean, they are attainable if we open the wallet. Not necessarily a trade, although maybe with Ball.
You guys are not concerned that BALL did not make they Pelicans a better team, and Powell is a 6'3" SF who didn't make The raptors much better.
With SF like Simmons, Tatum, Gannis, Butler, KD, all of the hawks SF's we need to getter bigger.
Knixkik wrote:I know we always go back and forth on Bullock and Burks but you have to keep Bullock for 3 reasons. 1 is Burks is only at his best when he's scoring, and although he's won us a lot of games, the bench ball duties are tight with Rose/Quickley on the roster and needing the ball. 2 is we have Bullock's bird rights, which makes a difference. 3 is Bullocks misses less time than Burks. Bottom line is Bullock has become the heart of the defense, even when not shooting well. In a smaller role he's the guy.I'd love to keep Burks, but where we improve is to simply find a better version of Burks, and start that player at either PG or wing (and Bullock goes to the bench.) Lowry, DeRozan, Powell via free agency or Brogdon, TJ Warren, Marcus Smart via trade. Someone who can go out and get buckets and provide secondary playmaking when needed, be it a PG or wing.
Ok good points. Leaning slightly towards bullock now
knicks1248 wrote:The deal with Ball is he was pretty much played out of position. Van Gundy kinda turned Zion into a point forward and took the ball out of Lonzo's hands. If he comes here and is given the keys to running the team, will it have a major impact? That's the question.Knicksfan wrote:fitzfarm wrote:I think this team should really go after Norman Powell a perfect 3 and D who can also put the ball on the floor. Getting him in his prime years . You could resign burks or bullock to back him up.We need a pass first pg that makes life easier for our starters . Who can that PG be?
My "realistic" list has Powell and Ball in it. I mean, they are attainable if we open the wallet. Not necessarily a trade, although maybe with Ball.
You guys are not concerned that BALL did not make they Pelicans a better team, and Powell is a 6'3" SF who didn't make The raptors much better.
With SF like Simmons, Tatum, Gannis, Butler, KD, all of the hawks SF's we need to getter bigger.
knicks1248 wrote:Knicksfan wrote:fitzfarm wrote:I think this team should really go after Norman Powell a perfect 3 and D who can also put the ball on the floor. Getting him in his prime years . You could resign burks or bullock to back him up.We need a pass first pg that makes life easier for our starters . Who can that PG be?
My "realistic" list has Powell and Ball in it. I mean, they are attainable if we open the wallet. Not necessarily a trade, although maybe with Ball.
You guys are not concerned that BALL did not make they Pelicans a better team, and Powell is a 6'3" SF who didn't make The raptors much better.
With SF like Simmons, Tatum, Gannis, Butler, KD, all of the hawks SF's we need to getter bigger.
Issue with Pels like many teams are the roster constructions. Tatum and Butler did not carry any further than Bullock this season by your standard of “what have you done today that I can plug in tommorow”?
The issue with Pels is what to do with Zion to max his talent and melt it with Ingram
Its not a question of anyone around here being concerned but does our coaching and FO think he can add to what we have.
So the discussion is not about what we think, but about ones opinion. NObody here has any kind of influence.
We don’t know Pels game plan but If I valued him I’d look at Nola’s roster and draft picks and perhaps create a scenario which is Brock Allers job. Then I consider do I value Ball today over what I can pick in teh lower half of the draft. Now we all an assume Nola has picks, also does not want to match a high salary and lose him for nothing. But at the same time if we value Ball, we don’t want to pay a high salary either for him.
Its in our best interest to find a number he’d accept, then offer compensation to Nola and we get what we want based on our valuation. Not what others think. If the price goes high fuck it. Move on.
some of you think he might be worth a 25th pick and Nola walks away and we get him for 18mm-20mil. To high? Then pass. Leon and CO. Will figure his value. They do that good, it was their job previously.
If another team wants to get stupid, good for Ball.
Question is doe Ball enhance OBI more than Randle? Who enhances Randle BTW? DRose and Randle don’t seem together much work except in iso. Rose pushes the ball. Randle slows it down. WE don’t see Randle and rose play a 2 man game.
After sleeping on it I love Randle but if there’s was a vision beyond I’m ok with that. If he fits in it thats cool. Few teams will offer him what we gave him this season. On a better team he is might not be a perennial Allstar. Fewer touches. They can offer him better shooters around him and that might open things up for him in the paint. We keep him we need to two that. Add that to what ATL did to tie him down. Took away Barrets corner. Pushed IQ out further, and let Burkes and Bullock be our saviors. They are not that good. They were for a lot of the season.
Do we take Ball here and yet let Randle be the PF and slow it down? If so, don’t bring him here.