Knicks · Shariffe cooper vs tre Mann (page 2)

6'2" but only 170lbs. Frank-like wingspan

I can't see the Knicks taking him at #19 but maybe #32?

martin wrote:Can see the Knicks drafting this kid too. The more PG version of IQ.

6'2" but only 170lbs. Frank-like wingspan

I can't see the Knicks taking him at #19 but maybe #32?

Tremendous at getting into lane and at the rim with great vision.

If he the receiver catches the ball for touchdown it means cooper learned how to shoot.

BRIGGS wrote:Who do u have and why?

Cooper more of an engine

Tre Mann more of a curry type pg

At that likely range of the draft, I'd rather have Johnny Juzang. However if you put a gun to my head and said I had to pick one of those two no matter what, I'd pick Cooper.

Mann is more projectible based on tool set. But there are other factors here.

Any of you ever train in a fight gym? Boxing or Muay Thai or kickboxing or MMA or the like? I'm not talking about a little globo cardio boxing haven for soccer moms to put on pink gloves and pretend fight. I'm talking a gritty fucked up rusted out sweaty dungeon where people bleed all day to learn how to hurt other people. Sometimes you run into someone where you understand, just by standing in the same room, that if you fought them, it will cost you. Maybe you can kill them, but they will gouge out your eye and cripple your knees. If they have one last gasp of air, they will try to tear your throat out with their teeth. Some people are just wired that way, if you hit them, you better put them down, because they aren't staying down. They aren't stopping, they aren't negotiating, they aren't weighing out what they'll lose.

A tough guy doesn't size people up. Most people size others up. It's in our nature. It's very common in competitive environments. The true tough guy doesn't give a shit if you're 80 pounds heavier or 8 inches taller or 10 years more experienced. He doesn't care if you have a bat in your hand, or a knife, or even a gun. These are guys you don't shoot, you hit them with a truck and leave the truck over the body and run away on foot as fast as possible.

Cooper has lots of flaws. But he's the kind of guy who doesn't give a shit about winning. What he cares about is testing everyone to see if he can finally find someone who can put him down. That's it. It's not principle, it's not redemption, it's just relentless defiance. Guys like that don't sleep well at night, they are obsessed about being defiant on the court. They are looking for every little edge, every angle, every option to wipe out the other guy.

Would I take him at 19? No
Would I take him at 21? No
Would I take him at 32? Maybe

Let's not mince it, Cooper is very likely a psychopath but he exists in a framework where society at large will embrace that. You don't try to rehabilitate these guys, you just push them in a specific direction.

I get along with psychopaths pretty well. I understand how to talk to them and how to focus them in a direction. Can Thibs do that? I don't know. But they can be pretty useful in the right situation, the right tool for the right job. I've had lots of practice. I have lots of friends who are married and I get along with all their wives. Like I said, I get along with psychopaths.

Sometimes, rarely, you have to glean something past projectibles. This is one of those rare cases.

In Cooper's mind, he should be the first overall pick, and any team who doesn't draft him is telling him to go fuck himself and his only goal then will be to make them all pay. Forever. In a strong locker room, a guy like that is useful.

Cooper's personal anthem.

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Who do u have and why?

Cooper more of an engine

Tre Mann more of a curry type pg

At that likely range of the draft, I'd rather have Johnny Juzang. However if you put a gun to my head and said I had to pick one of those two no matter what, I'd pick Cooper.

Mann is more projectible based on tool set. But there are other factors here.

Any of you ever train in a fight gym? Boxing or Muay Thai or kickboxing or MMA or the like? I'm not talking about a little globo cardio boxing haven for soccer moms to put on pink gloves and pretend fight. I'm talking a gritty fucked up rusted out sweaty dungeon where people bleed all day to learn how to hurt other people. Sometimes you run into someone where you understand, just by standing in the same room, that if you fought them, it will cost you. Maybe you can kill them, but they will gouge out your eye and cripple your knees. If they have one last gasp of air, they will try to tear your throat out with their teeth. Some people are just wired that way, if you hit them, you better put them down, because they aren't staying down. They aren't stopping, they aren't negotiating, they aren't weighing out what they'll lose.

A tough guy doesn't size people up. Most people size others up. It's in our nature. It's very common in competitive environments. The true tough guy doesn't give a shit if you're 80 pounds heavier or 8 inches taller or 10 years more experienced. He doesn't care if you have a bat in your hand, or a knife, or even a gun. These are guys you don't shoot, you hit them with a truck and leave the truck over the body and run away on foot as fast as possible.

Cooper has lots of flaws. But he's the kind of guy who doesn't give a shit about winning. What he cares about is testing everyone to see if he can finally find someone who can put him down. That's it. It's not principle, it's not redemption, it's just relentless defiance. Guys like that don't sleep well at night, they are obsessed about being defiant on the court. They are looking for every little edge, every angle, every option to wipe out the other guy.

Would I take him at 19? No
Would I take him at 21? No
Would I take him at 32? Maybe

Let's not mince it, Cooper is very likely a psychopath but he exists in a framework where society at large will embrace that. You don't try to rehabilitate these guys, you just push them in a specific direction.

I get along with psychopaths pretty well. I understand how to talk to them and how to focus them in a direction. Can Thibs do that? I don't know. But they can be pretty useful in the right situation, the right tool for the right job. I've had lots of practice. I have lots of friends who are married and I get along with all their wives. Like I said, I get along with psychopaths.

Sometimes, rarely, you have to glean something past projectibles. This is one of those rare cases.

In Cooper's mind, he should be the first overall pick, and any team who doesn't draft him is telling him to go fuck himself and his only goal then will be to make them all pay. Forever. In a strong locker room, a guy like that is useful.

Once again very intriguing. I agree. He still needs to learn to shoot 😅

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BRIGGS wrote:With Duarte and Mann youd walk out of the draft with 3 point shooting riches from the 1-2 that can be a huge + for many years going forward. Both have good height athletic ability with other intangibles as well.

The low ceiling Can’t go wrong option. +1 😅😁

martin wrote:ugh

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Wow🥺😳

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:Can see the Knicks drafting this kid too. The more PG version of IQ.

6'2" but only 170lbs. Frank-like wingspan

I can't see the Knicks taking him at #19 but maybe #32?

He was one of the first guys the Knicks brought in after the college season ended. I think they might've had going in the second round initially, but I think he makes into the first. He's not a point, but I think his dribble and separation skills might be more advanced than IQs. But I'm still not sure how much pressure he puts on the defense in the paint.

He’s currently slotted to us at #19 on nbadraft.net and personally I’d draft him at 19. The downside is he’s probably 115 pounds. The upside is he can play

martin wrote:Can see the Knicks drafting this kid too. The more PG version of IQ.

6'2" but only 170lbs. Frank-like wingspan

I can't see the Knicks taking him at #19 but maybe #32?

SupremeCommander wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:Can see the Knicks drafting this kid too. The more PG version of IQ.

6'2" but only 170lbs. Frank-like wingspan

I can't see the Knicks taking him at #19 but maybe #32?

He was one of the first guys the Knicks brought in after the college season ended. I think they might've had going in the second round initially, but I think he makes into the first. He's not a point, but I think his dribble and separation skills might be more advanced than IQs. But I'm still not sure how much pressure he puts on the defense in the paint.

He's currently slotted to us at #19 on nbadraft.net and personally I'd draft him at 19. The downside is he's probably 115 pounds. The upside is he can play

BigDaddyG wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:Can see the Knicks drafting this kid too. The more PG version of IQ.

6'2" but only 170lbs. Frank-like wingspan

I can't see the Knicks taking him at #19 but maybe #32?

He was one of the first guys the Knicks brought in after the college season ended. I think they might've had going in the second round initially, but I think he makes into the first. He's not a point, but I think his dribble and separation skills might be more advanced than IQs. But I'm still not sure how much pressure he puts on the defense in the paint.

He's currently slotted to us at #19 on nbadraft.net and personally I'd draft him at 19. The downside is he's probably 115 pounds. The upside is he can play

I probably don't take him 19 because I like a few other players better and we already have IQ. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

BRIGGS wrote:Mann is legitimately over 6-4 although short arms and slower release on his J. That being said to find a taller pg shot creator who is a plus deep shooter at pick 20 is a nice possible option.
Cooper more of an engine pg with unproven jumper and certainly questionable size.

Cooper carries pure disruptive value. I'm not saying the Knicks should spend the 19th nor the 21st on him, I am saying defenses will be mentally and emotionally exhausted trying to contain him. He causes more problems for defenses than his talent level should practically allow.

Think Mario Elie. Elie wasn't the most talented guy and he had quite a few flaws. He had some streaks of pretty bad games as well. However he was always in the middle of shit if shit was going down somewhere on the court. When Elie was "On" and had his switched flipped on in the moments where it all lined up for him, he just was insufferable to other teams. He's the guy in the boxing gym, the MMA gym, the Muay Thai gym, the BJJ gym that isn't that talented but no one wants to fight anymore. He just keeps coming at you until you're all worn down to the bone.

Cooper doesn't play angry, he's just plain fucking angry period. Not just on the court, it's one of those all the time/candle is burning twice as hot as everyone else's situation. There are people just wired that way.

If you worked at a Sleep Train, and Cooper walked in, you'd probably give him a few free pillows to just leave you alone and stop his intense glare burning deep in the back of your skull. Why would someone be angry about pillows? No fucking clue. Like I said, some people are just wired that way.

We can have the same type of skilled player coming off the bench 😅😂

Would be a interesting duo

Bones hyland

We could use an aggressor athlete type

Or we could get sexton 😅lol

We really need a pg who can get us 20 points.

Someone who can demote Randle to you will get the ball when I feel like letting you shoot lol

Fro what I saw against the hawks we can’t win with Randle bricking away and still demanding the ball every time down the court

Randle has to be the third best player if we expect to win a championship

We need 2 more all star level players ….

With that being said if we don’t make any huge aggressive moves he has one more year to show he should be a second or first option when it matters. Up to him.

If not he needs to jump into his third option role lol

Unless rJ continues his upward trajectory I see him as the 4th best player if we are serious about a championship.

If he continues his upward trajectory I could see him as a 2nd option. If not he should be the 4th best player on our championship team.

First things first we need a pg who can get buckets and assist

martin wrote:Can see the Knicks drafting this kid too. The more PG version of IQ.

6'2" but only 170lbs. Frank-like wingspan

I can't see the Knicks taking him at #19 but maybe #32?

He is another good prospect. I have been looking into him too as a possible pick. His game looks almost identical to IQ’s including the same weaknesses but he might have more potential as a PG and he might even be a better shooter. I don’t see Bones lasting to 32. The Knicks would have to use their second pick (21) to get him. He is definitely someone the Knicks should consider with that second pick. But I would take Cooper at 19 still.

A guy name Michael Hopp from nbadraft.net wrote this about Bones and his combine performance:

Nah'Shon Hyland, VCU (6’2.0” barefoot, 6’3.5” in shoes, 8’5.5” standing reach, 169.0 lbs, 6’9.25” wingspan)

“Bones” (pictured) was the big standout on Day One, and made the smart decision to shut it down after such an impressive performance. He showed why his draft stock has been rising since the collegiate season finished. He was everywhere on both ends of the court, dominating in his 23 minutes in a 19-point blowout win, knocking down three 3s and putting up 17 points in very impressive fashion. Hyland has always been a knockdown shooter and that was clearly on display. He raised his scoring average by ten points and became a defensive menace this past season. The sophomore capped off a sterling combine by posting the second fastest lane agility time at 10.53 seconds. There is so much to love about Hyland as a player, between the beautiful shooting stroke, scoring punch and defensive intensity, and all these strengths were on full display at the combine. Hyland lacks height for a combo, at just 6’2 barefoot, but he has a massive 6’9.25 wingspan and recorded a 8’5.5 standing reach which is prototypical for an NBA 2-guard. He figures to ultimately find a spot in the second half of the first round and fill the role of instant offense off the bench perfectly (a la prime Louis Williams or Jordan Clarkson) at the next level.

Knicksfan wrote:Do you buy that Cooper is now lottery bound?

In this draft? It's possible. The line separating players mocked in the lower lottery and the mid to late first round is paper thin.