Knicks · Trade Kevin knox (page 2)

Philc1 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

TheGame wrote:It still is not clear to me if Kevin Knox is a solid young player with potential that we just underused or a below average player who is not worth being in the rotation. I suspect that if he went to a team that gave him 20 minutes a game, he probably would produce at a decent rate but at this point, I think the Knicks should just trade him to some team like Orlando or Houston if we could get a high second round pick for him. I hope that we can package him with the 19th pick and move up 3-5 spots.

Had high hopes for him before the 2018 season. I wanted Bridges but Calipari had such high praise for him and I remembered him going on like crazy praising an 18 year old Kobe Bryant and no one should underestimate him just because he didn’t play in college. He looked really good that summer league on offense and also played really well first couple months of that season

I don’t know if Fiz ruined him or he was asked to do too much his rookie year or both. And then we drafted RJ who plays the same position and hired a defensive coach and Knox doesn’t play D

He and RJ don't play the same position. I'm not sure you can blame Fiz on his lack of development. The question about Knox coming out of college involved his lack of motor and that has proven to be true so far. I can't think of too many players who developed a motor after becoming pro (I'm sure there are some examples). However, if all we can get in return for Knox is a 2nd round pick lets continue to work with him for another year. Now, if we need to include him in a deal for a player we need all bets are off.

I just don’t see Thibs ever warming up to him. Knox is a DSJ-esque liability on defense. It’s incredible how good he is at running the floor north/south but he has zero lateral quickness

I would try to use him in a package for someone like Ball or Lillard

Yeah, I wouldn't hesitate to include him in a trade package. Definitely don't see the wisdom in essentially giving him away for just a 2nd round pick.

At the moment Knox simply has no trade value. He may be part of some trade, but he won’t move the needle. He is simply a bust in the eyes of most at the moment. Does that mean he will be out of the league when his contract expires? Of course not, someone will surely give him a second chance for a veteran minimum. But why would anyone give anything concrete for him at this point? There is no logic.

xavier wrote:At the moment Knox simply has no trade value. He may be part of some trade, but he won’t move the needle. He is simply a bust in the eyes of most at the moment. Does that mean he will be out of the league when his contract expires? Of course not, someone will surely give him a second chance for a veteran minimum. But why would anyone give anything concrete for him at this point? There is no logic.

Yeah, trading him at his lowest point won't yield much in return. But he could be a trade throw-in that helps make the deal happen if a team liked him prior to his draft and still believes he could become useful.

NBA has so many stories of players that rose from early disappointments. Chris Middleton, PJ tucker, etc. Far more that did not ascend.

Yet we all seem to have written the book on Knox like we know. More than likely he is not going to pan out. But we don’t know what Thibs thinks. WE do know how he coaches. Thibs job is to coach whom the FO rosters. HE and others get input.
They may see him on the verge of something. Frank was there but it did not happen. Just because that occurrence happend does not mean Knox won’t.

Odds of a good outcome dwindles over time. I’m not advocating or his greatness. But I sure as shit don’t write him off based on what Thibs thinks. If he is quoted as giving up on him, or until time he is not rostered, then I’m assuming he is a prospect to some degree.

Id trade him for a bag of 100 white castles and a 2 liter coke

For what though? He probably doesn't have the goods, but you can't get anything for him, so your best bet is giving him another chance and hope he learned to shoot with more confidence/consistency.

It sort of depends on who the potential replacement would be. I certainly don’t want too hold on to him just because we drafted him… I don’t want to watch it play out like Frank or DSJ. For the right international or d league player I’d cut Knox. If someone wants to give us future second, great, I’d probably jump at the chance

In short: addition by subtraction

cooch2584 wrote:Id trade him for a bag of 100 white castles and a 2 liter coke

I'd trade him for a copy of a Roseanne and Tom Arnold sex tape, barf bag optional.

SupremeCommander wrote:It sort of depends on who the potential replacement would be. I certainly don't want too hold on to him just because we drafted him… I don't want to watch it play out like Frank or DSJ. For the right international or d league player I'd cut Knox. If someone wants to give us future second, great, I'd probably jump at the chance

In short: addition by subtraction

Knox doesn't appear to be a locker room problem and always seems very supportive of his teammates, so I'm not sure we get better simply by letting him go (addition by subtraction).

Nalod wrote:NBA has so many stories of players that rose from early disappointments. Chris Middleton, PJ tucker, etc. Far more that did not ascend.

Yet we all seem to have written the book on Knox like we know. More than likely he is not going to pan out. But we don’t know what Thibs thinks.

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/players/

Knox is No#221 on this list. It's tiered by salary. So let's look at every player making less than Knox in the NBA this past season. I'm going to make this more than fair.

First, remove all the All Stars and All NBA types. Second, remove anyone about to enter a lucrative long term extension next season. Third, remove any player who was a part of Knox's draft class and all classes after his draft.

So restrict the list down to journeymen. How many of those would be more valuable in helping the Knicks win basketball games compared to Knox? How many would not?

Frank Kaminsky and Patrick Patterson can actually shoot a three point shot and make defenses think about it. Boban can give you some rim protection. DeMarcus Cousins can at least give you six hard fouls.

Here's the fucked up part. The guys on that list who were journeymen but represent dead money and aren't going to play again period, at least they weren't eating up a roster spot and minutes. Their teams could give another inexpensive young player a chance to do something to help their teams win.

There are guys on that list who will NEVER play in the NBA again who offer more upside and do so CHEAPER than Knox gives the Knicks.

But Kevin Knox is more valuable than Frank Mason! Yeah, OK, how fucked up is that if it has to get that far?

If your head coach doesn't play you until he absolutely has no choice and needs a warm body, then you know EXACTLY want that coach thinks of you. EVERYONE knows what that coach thinks of that specific player. Knox has played in 182 games and close to 3800 minutes. He also had the pandemic stretch run and time to develop during the Delete 8 layoff. At some point, a guy is no longer about potential and what you see is what you get. As time moves on, Knox plays less and plays worse.

Can anyone name one single tangible consistent thing that Knox does to help the Knicks win basketball games?

Welpee wrote: Knox doesn't appear to be a locker room problem and always seems very supportive of his teammates, so I'm not sure we get better simply by letting him go (addition by subtraction).

Does Knox also host a great Game Night for his teammates too? Does he enjoy the camaraderie of good company engaged in games based on skill and chance?

How can that be profitable for Frito Lay?

HOW CAN THAT BE PROFITABLE FOR FRITO LAY?

Welpee wrote:Knox doesn't appear to be a locker room problem and always seems very supportive of his teammates, so I'm not sure we get better simply by letting him go (addition by subtraction).

I suppose we see low motor players dissimilarly, as we see also see towel wavers differently.

sometimes you just read the tea leaves. knicks made great progress under thibs - who made it clear the progress was occurring without the contributions of knox - OR frank. time to cut the cord with both of them imo

Welpee wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:It sort of depends on who the potential replacement would be. I certainly don't want too hold on to him just because we drafted him… I don't want to watch it play out like Frank or DSJ. For the right international or d league player I'd cut Knox. If someone wants to give us future second, great, I'd probably jump at the chance

In short: addition by subtraction

Knox doesn't appear to be a locker room problem and always seems very supportive of his teammates, so I'm not sure we get better simply by letting him go (addition by subtraction).

In a 10 man Rotation where exactly does he fit if the knicks add at least 2 to 3 FA, a draft pick or 2, and retain bullock and Rose.

This is the same issue you will have with OBI if Randle is here.

I'm almost certain he will be in any trade the knicks make

We'd be lucky to find a taker for Knox that didn't require us to take someone else we didn't want.

knicks1248 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:It sort of depends on who the potential replacement would be. I certainly don't want too hold on to him just because we drafted him… I don't want to watch it play out like Frank or DSJ. For the right international or d league player I'd cut Knox. If someone wants to give us future second, great, I'd probably jump at the chance

In short: addition by subtraction

Knox doesn't appear to be a locker room problem and always seems very supportive of his teammates, so I'm not sure we get better simply by letting him go (addition by subtraction).

In a 10 man Rotation where exactly does he fit if the knicks add at least 2 to 3 FA, a draft pick or 2, and retain bullock and Rose.

This is the same issue you will have with OBI if Randle is here.

I'm almost certain he will be in any trade the knicks make

1) can't predict injuries; 2) you're assuming that Knox remains the exact same player he was this season and displays zero progress or development. Again, I don't hold out a lot of hope for Knox but it wouldn't be unheard of for him to turn his game around; 3) I agree, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that he's included in a trade.

cooch2584 wrote:Id trade him for a bag of 100 white castles and a 2 liter coke

Is 1 2 of Coke liter enough for 100 White Castle burgers? I think you should ask for some fries in the deal.

Welpee wrote:1) can't predict injuries; 2) you're assuming that Knox remains the exact same player he was this season and displays zero progress or development. Again, I don't hold out a lot of hope for Knox but it wouldn't be unheard of for him to turn his game around; 3) I agree, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that he's included in a trade.

OK, so taking a different angle, let's say I was a part of Verus and was assigned to be Knox's agent. What would I do to help salvage his career?

First, he needs to get off the Knicks roster. Thibs doesn't trust him and I don't blame Thibs for that. Thibs and the current front office has no linkage nor association nor legacy with Knox on the day he was drafted. Yes, there is a Kentucky connection but it's not Leon Rose nor Thibs betting their own judgement here. They didn't pick Knox and have the pressure of owning the mistake of having him on the roster. He's a problem inherited from the previous regime.

Second, since the Knicks have so much open cap space, trading Knox is actually harder. Teams hard up against the cap have no choice but to dump salaries on other teams and no one can do anything about it. This is a bit different. If the Knicks were right up against the cap line, they could say you have to take Knox or we can't legally find a way to make this deal. But that's not the case here.

Third, Knox needs to go to a team that will organically tank. That means they will trade all the veterans they can off their roster and let cast offs, UDFAs and overwhelmed rookies take the majority of minutes. It helps that teams draft position and they care less about who is getting minutes as long as the team is losing and they can say they are giving their "core" rookies some minutes and development. In this kind of situation, Knox doesn't have too much pressure, might get extended minutes ( esp with injuries if they happen around him), and then can try to rebrand himself and his market value with pure volume and counting stats.

If the Knicks can't trade Knox, I'd push for the team to waive him. Doubtful another team will pick him up off of waivers. Then he has a chance to find a team who is organically tanking without hoping a trade pathway there.

In terms of career, Knox is not a wing. The kind of work profile to become a functional wing is just not in his mental makeup. What Knox can do is try to convert to a small ball pivot. His defense is pure ass, but now he's got something to work on. His offense reeks for a converted wing. However it's passable for a small ball pivot ( where any offensive ability is gravy to a team) He has to change the direction of his pressure. Right now, his defense is total shit and there is immense pressure to make up for it offensively. However he's just not good enough offensively to make that work. Instead, he should focus 90 percent of his effort in improving his defense and accept his limitations on offense. You only have so much work capacity to try to improve. You have to pick your spots. Being a lazy unskilled gunner isn't going to work here. But this is shit he should have doing in the Delete 8 layoff.

I've seen his interviews, I've seen his decision making on the court, I've seen trends that just didn't improve period. He's not....he's not a rocket scientist. Not even close. His future will rely on a team making things very very very very very very very simple for him. Guys like this need to be taught how to be a hammer, and to see the rest of the world as nails.

One of the worst things to happen in the "Go Woke/Go Broke" era of modern sports is you can't just say a player is purely fucking dumb anymore. You'll likely be called a racist. Michael Vick could NOT read the most basic NFL defense to save his life. He just couldn't. If you called him a low football IQ quarterback, then you would be called a racist. It's unfortunate, because most players need a "Come To Jesus" moment where they have to face the reality of their broken sports careers. Knox honestly needs to hear he's a purely dumb player and the inherent laziness combined with that is just not acceptable. You might get away with being hard working and dumb. Or smart and lazy. Maybe for a little while. But you can't be fucking dumb AND lazy as fuck at the same motherfucking time.

Knox plays like an asshole because he's been enabled all his life and coddled to believe he's fine and perfect even though he's actually playing like an asshole.

If I was Knox's agent, I'd want him to go to the Heat. But they have close to no use for a guy like this. But the Heat wouldn't tolerate any of this soft serve jogging around bullshit. Jimmy Butler would fucking strangle Knox on the team bus for pulling this limp wristed Momma's Boy shit.

This team desperately needs a veteran player, an old dog like a Haslem, who will walk around and tell people to go fuck themselves if they actually deserve to hear that they need to go fuck themselves.

Make no mistake, I'm from the old school. If I was on the same roster as Knox, and saw him lolly gagging around like a school girl playing double dutch at recess, I would no doubt punch him in the fucking face.

Don't be motherfucking lazy. Not ever. It's not profitable for Frito Lay.

cooch2584 wrote:Id trade him for a bag of 100 white castles and a 2 liter coke

yummy

I can see knox going to Cleveland in a sexton trade

Every time i have seen him play it looks like he dont know where to be on the court.He looks like a deer in the headlights. Get rid of the bum.