gradyandrew wrote:BRIGGS wrote:No way is he a 12 min back up for Randle. I really wonder if we can slot him as a 3 and use formier as a 6 th man. Obi brings more to the all around table—- he’s got the underlying talent to be the best player on the team in 2-3 years. His game has jettisoned —- I don’t care sl batman league whatever. For our big team to move up it would be smart to move the 6/9 Toppin to starting sf.I like our rookies—we’ll see how Tibs integrates. Iq so highly undisciplined — way to inconsistent to be a major player as a starting pg.
Yeah，I'm still on the fence. I think Obi still misses way too many shots at the rim. Defensively he's fine; he's making the right rotations and knows where to go to recover when he gets beat. He still can improve as a one on one defender.
I hate to go all 2019 off season here but I just haven't seen the dog in Obi's game yet. He seems like too nice of a guy. He needs to learn how to step on a guys neck before he can become a star.
I think he can dunk many more shots. He doesnt need to flip it at the basket--he needs to flush. But He is also showing mid range and deep too.
BRIGGS wrote:gradyandrew wrote:BRIGGS wrote:No way is he a 12 min back up for Randle. I really wonder if we can slot him as a 3 and use formier as a 6 th man. Obi brings more to the all around table—- he’s got the underlying talent to be the best player on the team in 2-3 years. His game has jettisoned —- I don’t care sl batman league whatever. For our big team to move up it would be smart to move the 6/9 Toppin to starting sf.I like our rookies—we’ll see how Tibs integrates. Iq so highly undisciplined — way to inconsistent to be a major player as a starting pg.
Yeah，I'm still on the fence. I think Obi still misses way too many shots at the rim. Defensively he's fine; he's making the right rotations and knows where to go to recover when he gets beat. He still can improve as a one on one defender.
I hate to go all 2019 off season here but I just haven't seen the dog in Obi's game yet. He seems like too nice of a guy. He needs to learn how to step on a guys neck before he can become a star.
I think he can dunk many more shots. He doesnt need to flip it at the basket--he needs to flush. But He is also showing mid range and deep too.
Exactly! I'm not sure if he jumps too early or he's worried about drawing contact or what but yeah，he should be Posterizing fools all game.
BRIGGS wrote:Knixkik wrote:He doesn’t have the skill set for the 3 and isn’t stealing minutes from Burks/Barrett/ Fournier etc. he is a 4 that needs to develop into a stretch 5 in order to increase his minutes. The question is how much of that time is taken from Mitch?
Why box a player in to a position? He has more upside as a player than Formier. Formier is a better Bullock. Toppin has Shawn Marion upside. But for our team--he may have to play the so called 3 position because of randle.
He can’t play the 3 defensively or even have the offensive skill. It’s not boxing him into a position as opposed to doing him a disservice as a prospect. Unless the game dramatically changes it’s never going to utilize his best strengths properly. Best case is he ends up shifting between 4 and 5 and sees major minutes that way.
Knicksfan wrote:The key this season might actually be the evolution of… our coach!At PG and C, we should have a very clear substitution strategy where both main players play similar time. Both Rose and Kemba will need their rest, as will Mitch. Noel needs burn. None of them should be abused.
Same with Randle and Obi to some extent. Randle will get his minutes, but he needs more rest and Obi needs more burn.
These positions need to be managed differently from last season, and I hope Thibs is up to the challenge.
This is golden, but can one teach an old dog new tricks?
TLover wrote:Obi has the athleticism to play the 3.Would like to see Grimes run the point.. he describes his game similar to Jamal Murray.
Grimes is not running the point with Walker, Rose, IQ and Deuce as all way better options.
He's going to be buried on the bench 80% of this season.
ESOMKnicks wrote:Knicksfan wrote:The key this season might actually be the evolution of… our coach!At PG and C, we should have a very clear substitution strategy where both main players play similar time. Both Rose and Kemba will need their rest, as will Mitch. Noel needs burn. None of them should be abused.
Same with Randle and Obi to some extent. Randle will get his minutes, but he needs more rest and Obi needs more burn.
These positions need to be managed differently from last season, and I hope Thibs is up to the challenge.
This is golden, but can one teach an old dog new tricks?
I still get confused by this position on load management. These guys are working in practice, working out after practice. Shooting on off days and travel days. And we are concerned that a guy plays 38 minutes instead of 32? I love this “earn your minutes” philosophy. Toppin wants to take Randle’s minutes… come get them.
Payton’s minutes is the only thing that eludes me. Seemed as though there was a starting promise there that Thibs didn’t break. Maybe Payton earned it, but his real +/- was pretty terrible. Guess that’s what happens when Derrick Rose is your backup.
We kept one of the healthiest squads out there last year. A lot of factors could influence that. Having the extended non-bubble break. Nobody showed up looking like Doncic or Harden needing the time to get in shape. And they established a gym rat culture where the coach is trying to get them to stop working out.
My point is that it’s not going to be the game minutes that defines these players’ workload. It worked fine last season, if it ain’t broke…
Love the Briggs knee jerk threads. Even moreso after a summer league game. Obi has a good game in summer league and Briggs has him starting over EF?
Obi still has not shown he can create much on his own. And no, I mean at the NBA regular season level. He has not shown that he can defend 4's well let alone 3's. His shot is still slow and awkward and will be hard to get off against NON summer league defenses.
I hope I am wrong and I wanted to draft him but I was not impressed with what I saw last year. He still has a lot to prove and it's not in summer league. But sure 31 points is always good to see.
HofstraBBall wrote:Love the Briggs knee jerk threads. Even moreso after a summer league game. Obi has a good game in summer league and Briggs has him starting over EF? Obi still has not shown he can create much on his own. And no, I mean at the NBA regular season level. He has not shown that he can defend 4's well let alone 3's. His shot is still slow and awkward and will be hard to get off against NON summer league defenses.
I hope I am wrong and I wanted to draft him but I was not impressed with what I saw last year. He still has a lot to prove and it's not in summer league. But sure 31 points is always good to see.
He’s 6/9 and he’s showing 3 level scoring with nba tier 1 athletic ability. We don’t really have that. I think he’s expanded past a 10 min role.
We trade Randle(s) in a year or two. Ok. It might happen.
Cool. Now you can say you told us. Cool.
BRIGGS wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Love the Briggs knee jerk threads. Even moreso after a summer league game. Obi has a good game in summer league and Briggs has him starting over EF? Obi still has not shown he can create much on his own. And no, I mean at the NBA regular season level. He has not shown that he can defend 4's well let alone 3's. His shot is still slow and awkward and will be hard to get off against NON summer league defenses.
I hope I am wrong and I wanted to draft him but I was not impressed with what I saw last year. He still has a lot to prove and it's not in summer league. But sure 31 points is always good to see.
He’s 6/9 and he’s showing 3 level scoring with nba tier 1 athletic ability. We don’t really have that. I think he’s expanded past a 10 min role.
Problem is, where will he pick up minutes from? TT is not sitting his Knick player of the year. He is also not playing Obi at the 3. TT likes solid defense there. EF and most other true 3s are also much better shooters. Having MR and Noel means he is not playing him at the 5 either. I do not see a problem with Obi getting 10 to 15 a game to give high energy minutes that allows starters to get some rest. So not think Obi playing well in summer is enough to say he should be taking more of the starters minutes. Especially after last year's lack luster showing.
Best wish at this point is that he continues to improve and earns the right to be in at the end of games. Can't say we can say that right now. Let's wait until we play a real NBA game with all our regular roster guys. Imho
HofstraBBall wrote:Love the Briggs knee jerk threads. Even moreso after a summer league game. Obi has a good game in summer league and Briggs has him starting over EF? Obi still has not shown he can create much on his own. And no, I mean at the NBA regular season level. He has not shown that he can defend 4's well let alone 3's. His shot is still slow and awkward and will be hard to get off against NON summer league defenses.
I hope I am wrong and I wanted to draft him but I was not impressed with what I saw last year. He still has a lot to prove and it's not in summer league. But sure 31 points is always good to see.
His handle is awful, he has no lateral agility, there is no fing way he can play big minutes at the 3. Better chance of him playing center, and there he has problems too. At least at center he would be an offensive mismatch. Probably a net positve as a back-up center on most nights. Just don't think Thibs will play him there.
Randle is working 10x harder and smarter right now than OBI so who's miutes are you reducing..or should everything change for OBI
knicks1248 wrote:Randle is working 10x harder and smarter right now than OBI so who's miutes are you reducing..or should everything change for OBI
What do you base this statement on?
The last game against the Pistons was the most productive game so far for Obi, he moved well without the ball getting a ton of dunks and lobs...playing at Center. We finally got a glimpse of Obi playing at center. I hope Thibs notices that so he can incorporate that next season.
Obi is not yet there defensively, if he plays center who are the other 4 guys thats ideal to make that 5 man line up work?
The knicks are utilizing summer league well for Obi and IQ giving the coaching staff a look at IQ at the point and Obi at center.
Coming out of high school, Grimes was a highly recruited PG, i hope Johnny Bryant can focus on Grimes development hopefully he can tighten Grimes handles for the next level.
I still think Obi is growing into his body. I remember that he was a guard in high school and then had a late growth spurt that turned him from a fringe player (not heavily recruited) to player of the year in two years.
You see that in his game. A cross between a high school wing and a mid tier college center. He wants to drive and hit jumpers off the bounce and drive on guys when he has a clear advantage. There have been，no doubt，flashes of an all purpose wing of the LeBron/ Kawhi/ PG type. But realistically he's not there yet. So many aspects of his game need to go from average to good before he can be a starting level player. Anyway，he's got 3 more seasons to figure it out.
knicks1248 wrote:Randle is working 10x harder and smarter right now than OBI so who's miutes are you reducing..or should everything change for OBI
Randle led the league in minutes last season. He should want us to reduce his minutes simply just to preserve his career long term
EwingsGlass wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Randle is working 10x harder and smarter right now than OBI so who's miutes are you reducing..or should everything change for OBI
What do you base this statement on?
His track record
Its not a knock on OBI its just an unfortunate situation..He has a really good player in front of him on a stack team..
knicks1248 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Randle is working 10x harder and smarter right now than OBI so who's miutes are you reducing..or should everything change for OBI
What do you base this statement on?
His track record
Its not a knock on OBI its just an unfortunate situation..He has a really good player in front of him on a stack team..
Don't think its unfortunate at all even from his perspective. He had no real pressure to live up to his draft status last yr in a mostly terrible yr for him. He will have a steady specific role that he can grow out of, giving the Knicks quality depth. With Randle and Taj being quality mentors around him.
When its time to extend him, Knicks will either get value back for Randle or Obi.
knicks1248 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Randle is working 10x harder and smarter right now than OBI so who's miutes are you reducing..or should everything change for OBI
What do you base this statement on?
His track record
Its not a knock on OBI its just an unfortunate situation..He has a really good player in front of him on a stack team..
Only thing unfortunate is a fans short sighted perception. Other than that his play will determine his minutes. You want players to get better? Isn’t that a good thing?
knicks1248 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Randle is working 10x harder and smarter right now than OBI so who's miutes are you reducing..or should everything change for OBI
What do you base this statement on?
His track record
Its not a knock on OBI its just an unfortunate situation..He has a really good player in front of him on a stack team..
Where are you getting your information about how hard they are each working in the offseason? Everything I see show me Randle is working out hard and so is Toppin. Have not seen a single statement other than yours that Toppin isn’t working out hard to even a tenth of what Randle is doing.
Feels like you made it up to make your point.
EwingsGlass wrote:knicks1248 wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Randle is working 10x harder and smarter right now than OBI so who's miutes are you reducing..or should everything change for OBI
What do you base this statement on?
His track record
Its not a knock on OBI its just an unfortunate situation..He has a really good player in front of him on a stack team..
Where are you getting your information about how hard they are each working in the offseason? Everything I see show me Randle is working out hard and so is Toppin. Have not seen a single statement other than yours that Toppin isn’t working out hard to even a tenth of what Randle is doing.
Feels like you made it up to make your point.
I'm not trying to compare the 2 and it seems like that's what your reaching for. We all know OBI is putting in the work that's no secrete, and we all know Randles work ethic because his numbers have gone up every yr since he was in the league.
So if Randle comes in even better than last season, how does that benefit OBI. The only way i see him getting more min is to play randle at Center. It's a safe bet that Noel or Mitch won't play more the 65 games.
