In his rookie year Kevin Knox took 364 3 point shots. The Knicks had hired Fizdale with the understanding that in a post Melo world with an injured KP，their most likely path to contention was to tank hard for a top pick in the draft. By February it was clear that Zion Williamson was going to be a generational type player and that a much less discussed but from the Knicks stand point highly beneficial extra of the KP trade was that by trading Tim Hardaway Jr the Knicks also got rid of the best player on the roster. Fizdale could be confident that every ill advised Knox FGA brought him one step closer to a roster built around KD，Kyrie，and Zion. The best laid plans of the mice and men often go awry and Zion's first basket in the NBA is a clear enough summary: He ripped the ball out of Knox's hands and dunked on him.
Failure is the mother of invention and in Jim Dolan's case the implausibility of that plan allowed him to finally realize that the bright lights of MSG alone would never bring the success us fans crave. Loyal to a fault he shelled out big bucks for management，coaches，and players. How and why he was able to convince Leon Rose to come on board has never been revealed but I think the answer is simple. Like us，Rose is a Knicks fan. The fortuitous availability of Thibodeau sealed the deal.
Thibodeau was eager to rebuild his image after the disastrous end of the Jimmy Butler era in Minnesota. Despite being handed the keys to the franchise he ultimately failed with just a single playoff series to show for it. You can't fault Thibodeau for lack of trying. He's married to the game like a nun to Christ. He brings a single minded determination to the game in a way that even Michael could emulate. No golf games during the season for Thibodeau. I question even whether he worries about wins and losses in the cumulative sense. I'd be surprised if he knows his career record. For him，the process is the important part. You can see from his career that talent is never a substitute for process. Luol Deng never amounted for much outside of Chicago， but in his time there he led the NBA in minutes played.
From Thibodeau's first post game comments of the season you could hear his pride. He clearly has nothing but love for Randle. The pre Thibs knock against Randle was that he was a selfish player; Thibs gushed about Randle's willingness to pass out of the blitz and trust his teammates to make the right play. Randle's night work outs were called out. When the 100 million dollar man is working overtime it sets the tone for the entire roster. Obi and Quickley were singled out for their work ethic. "Team Green" the rookies were praised for being in New York all summer. The make-up of the team，where solid vets are passing their know how down to the rookies gives us some idea of the sustainability of last seasons turn around.
There was one zag. Thibodeau talked about how the offense will shoot more 3s this season but only the right kind of 3s. To me，there was only one egregious error all game. While Thibs in a comment on Sims miscues was happy to allow players to make mistakes，he did point out that when they do they can't continue making the same ones. Which brings me back to Kevin Knox.
After making two good plays off of cuts to the basket Knox decided to hoist a deep 3 in traffic early in the shot clock. Regardless of whether the shot goes in or doesn't (it didn't) it's tough to imagine building any sort of winning community off that play. In a word，it was selfish. Everyone out there is playing for a spot in the NBA and the easiest way to do it is to score points. That no one else on the court ever had the advantage of those aforementioned 364 shots or the millions guaranteed by being a high lottery pick only makes it worse. For a 22 year old whose baptism in the NBA was the greenest of lights it's a tough pill to swallow; the reason he had that license to shoot was because everyone was hoping he would miss. Now the coach wants him to win.
Thibodeau is no Doc Rivers willing to throw his own players under the bus to preserve his own reputation，but for anyone willing to read between the lines the message is clear enough: Vets，rookies，Randle，RJ，Obi， and IQ put in the work but despite knowing better Knox continues to make the same mistakes and the time is past for course correction. The optimist could be convinced that it's a motivational tool to teach， more likely is that we have seen the last shot for Knox as a Knick.
I just don't see him getting minutes ahead of OBI, Randle, Taj, or Burks. In order to get minutes he has to out play the guys ahead of him, and lets be honest, who is he better than.
The only way i see him getting any meaningful minutes is if we get a rash of injuries, and even then we have seen Thibs shorten his rotation.
I think he's done in NY, it's just a matter of time
First rate essay both in what you say and how you say it. Rose and Thibs have established a culture of commitment to a team concept that would seem conducive to players growing. Knox is an enigma.
gradyandrew wrote:In his rookie year Kevin Knox took 364 3 point shots. The Knicks had hired Fizdale with the understanding that in a post Melo world with an injured KP，their most likely path to contention was to tank hard for a top pick in the draft. By February it was clear that Zion Williamson was going to be a generational type player and that a much less discussed but from the Knicks stand point highly beneficial extra of the KP trade was that by trading Tim Hardaway Jr the Knicks also got rid of the best player on the roster. Fizdale could be confident that every ill advised Knox FGA brought him one step closer to a roster built around KD，Kyrie，and Zion. The best laid plans of the mice and men often go awry and Zion's first basket in the NBA is a clear enough summary: He ripped the ball out of Knox's hands and dunked on him.Failure is the mother of invention and in Jim Dolan's case the implausibility of that plan allowed him to finally realize that the bright lights of MSG alone would never bring the success us fans crave. Loyal to a fault he shelled out big bucks for management，coaches，and players. How and why he was able to convince Leon Rose to come on board has never been revealed but I think the answer is simple. Like us，Rose is a Knicks fan. The fortuitous availability of Thibodeau sealed the deal.
Thibodeau was eager to rebuild his image after the disastrous end of the Jimmy Butler era in Minnesota. Despite being handed the keys to the franchise he ultimately failed with just a single playoff series to show for it. You can't fault Thibodeau for lack of trying. He's married to the game like a nun to Christ. He brings a single minded determination to the game in a way that even Michael could emulate. No golf games during the season for Thibodeau. I question even whether he worries about wins and losses in the cumulative sense. I'd be surprised if he knows his career record. For him，the process is the important part. You can see from his career that talent is never a substitute for process. Luol Deng never amounted for much outside of Chicago， but in his time there he led the NBA in minutes played.
From Thibodeau's first post game comments of the season you could hear his pride. He clearly has nothing but love for Randle. The pre Thibs knock against Randle was that he was a selfish player; Thibs gushed about Randle's willingness to pass out of the blitz and trust his teammates to make the right play. Randle's night work outs were called out. When the 100 million dollar man is working overtime it sets the tone for the entire roster. Obi and Quickley were singled out for their work ethic. "Team Green" the rookies were praised for being in New York all summer. The make-up of the team，where solid vets are passing their know how down to the rookies gives us some idea of the sustainability of last seasons turn around.
There was one zag. Thibodeau talked about how the offense will shoot more 3s this season but only the right kind of 3s. To me，there was only one egregious error all game. While Thibs in a comment on Sims miscues was happy to allow players to make mistakes，he did point out that when they do they can't continue making the same ones. Which brings me back to Kevin Knox.
After making two good plays off of cuts to the basket Knox decided to hoist a deep 3 in traffic early in the shot clock. Regardless of whether the shot goes in or doesn't (it didn't) it's tough to imagine building any sort of winning community off that play. In a word，it was selfish. Everyone out there is playing for a spot in the NBA and the easiest way to do it is to score points. That no one else on the court ever had the advantage of those aforementioned 364 shots or the millions guaranteed by being a high lottery pick only makes it worse. For a 22 year old whose baptism in the NBA was the greenest of lights it's a tough pill to swallow; the reason he had that license to shoot was because everyone was hoping he would miss. Now the coach wants him to win.
Thibodeau is no Doc Rivers willing to throw his own players under the bus to preserve his own reputation，but for anyone willing to read between the lines the message is clear enough: Vets，rookies，Randle，RJ，Obi， and IQ put in the work but despite knowing better Knox continues to make the same mistakes and the time is past for course correction. The optimist could be convinced that it's a motivational tool to teach， more likely is that we have seen the last shot for Knox as a Knick.
Knox payed 4 minutes and one shot does not label him. Good analysis. Knox is not yet in the rotation based on last night. I would expect Thibs to perhaps play with lineups to see what he got and Knox, like all others will get opportunities to step up. Does he? We’ll see! Odds are not in his favor.
knicks1248 wrote:I just don't see him getting minutes ahead of OBI, Randle, Taj, or Burks. In order to get minutes he has to out play the guys ahead of him, and lets be honest, who is he better than.The only way i see him getting any meaningful minutes is if we get a rash of injuries, and even then we have seen Thibs shorten his rotation.
I think he's done in NY, it's just a matter of time
A lot of “I” in your responses. Do you ever consider the moving pieces that you don’t know or just go with the obvious? Even the most ardent Knox fan an see the path to rotation inclusion is not apparent. You like to boast about being right? Nobody is claiming to have insight. We should all hope the kid kills it in practice and gets a chance and supplants a vet infront of him. Who is he better than? Based on previous seasons he is not better than those in front of. He is 22 and at the cross road. It would be great if he could move to back up 3 and push Burks to the bench. That means team improved!!!! That means eitehr Burks or KK could be of value in a trade. Its what knicks want.
You either want internal improvement or be a fan that claims to be right. BOth are enjoyable I suppose.
“I” like to see internal development. Yes, we all know Knox has not lived up to his rookie promise.
Nalod wrote:gradyandrew wrote:In his rookie year Kevin Knox took 364 3 point shots. The Knicks had hired Fizdale with the understanding that in a post Melo world with an injured KP，their most likely path to contention was to tank hard for a top pick in the draft. By February it was clear that Zion Williamson was going to be a generational type player and that a much less discussed but from the Knicks stand point highly beneficial extra of the KP trade was that by trading Tim Hardaway Jr the Knicks also got rid of the best player on the roster. Fizdale could be confident that every ill advised Knox FGA brought him one step closer to a roster built around KD，Kyrie，and Zion. The best laid plans of the mice and men often go awry and Zion's first basket in the NBA is a clear enough summary: He ripped the ball out of Knox's hands and dunked on him.Failure is the mother of invention and in Jim Dolan's case the implausibility of that plan allowed him to finally realize that the bright lights of MSG alone would never bring the success us fans crave. Loyal to a fault he shelled out big bucks for management，coaches，and players. How and why he was able to convince Leon Rose to come on board has never been revealed but I think the answer is simple. Like us，Rose is a Knicks fan. The fortuitous availability of Thibodeau sealed the deal.
Thibodeau was eager to rebuild his image after the disastrous end of the Jimmy Butler era in Minnesota. Despite being handed the keys to the franchise he ultimately failed with just a single playoff series to show for it. You can't fault Thibodeau for lack of trying. He's married to the game like a nun to Christ. He brings a single minded determination to the game in a way that even Michael could emulate. No golf games during the season for Thibodeau. I question even whether he worries about wins and losses in the cumulative sense. I'd be surprised if he knows his career record. For him，the process is the important part. You can see from his career that talent is never a substitute for process. Luol Deng never amounted for much outside of Chicago， but in his time there he led the NBA in minutes played.
From Thibodeau's first post game comments of the season you could hear his pride. He clearly has nothing but love for Randle. The pre Thibs knock against Randle was that he was a selfish player; Thibs gushed about Randle's willingness to pass out of the blitz and trust his teammates to make the right play. Randle's night work outs were called out. When the 100 million dollar man is working overtime it sets the tone for the entire roster. Obi and Quickley were singled out for their work ethic. "Team Green" the rookies were praised for being in New York all summer. The make-up of the team，where solid vets are passing their know how down to the rookies gives us some idea of the sustainability of last seasons turn around.
There was one zag. Thibodeau talked about how the offense will shoot more 3s this season but only the right kind of 3s. To me，there was only one egregious error all game. While Thibs in a comment on Sims miscues was happy to allow players to make mistakes，he did point out that when they do they can't continue making the same ones. Which brings me back to Kevin Knox.
After making two good plays off of cuts to the basket Knox decided to hoist a deep 3 in traffic early in the shot clock. Regardless of whether the shot goes in or doesn't (it didn't) it's tough to imagine building any sort of winning community off that play. In a word，it was selfish. Everyone out there is playing for a spot in the NBA and the easiest way to do it is to score points. That no one else on the court ever had the advantage of those aforementioned 364 shots or the millions guaranteed by being a high lottery pick only makes it worse. For a 22 year old whose baptism in the NBA was the greenest of lights it's a tough pill to swallow; the reason he had that license to shoot was because everyone was hoping he would miss. Now the coach wants him to win.
Thibodeau is no Doc Rivers willing to throw his own players under the bus to preserve his own reputation，but for anyone willing to read between the lines the message is clear enough: Vets，rookies，Randle，RJ，Obi， and IQ put in the work but despite knowing better Knox continues to make the same mistakes and the time is past for course correction. The optimist could be convinced that it's a motivational tool to teach， more likely is that we have seen the last shot for Knox as a Knick.
Knox payed 4 minutes and one shot does not label him. Good analysis. Knox is not yet in the rotation based on last night. I would expect Thibs to perhaps play with lineups to see what he got and Knox, like all others will get opportunities to step up. Does he? We’ll see! Odds are not in his favor.
great read @gradyandrew
Nalod.. the dude played 4 minutes and somehow did all the things that lost him his spot in the rotation. He plays hard but like someone who forgets which button does what on the controller. Damn... I meant to pass, looks like Im shooting a 30 footer. Damn, I meant to shoot, looks like Im putting it on the floor.
He's 22. He's like 2 year younger than Duarte who's an old rookie. I think Knox still has a reasonable Al Harrington type ceiling but hard to see it happen here
All Harrington was not a winning player.
We're building around team oriented players, not shot-jackers
I'm rooting for the kid. Everyone likes a good underdog story.
Nalod I spent about 1000 words explaining why if it hasn't happened yet it won't. The 'rookie promise' line in particular grates. Unless you are referring to his first month，the rest of his season was designed to fail. Fizdale did not have Knox's future in mind when he played him more than anyone else on the team. Thibs is right，when you continue to make the same mistakes，it's on you.
Let's look at the most talked about play of the offseason for comparison. Simmons gets past his man and has Trae Young caught in a two on one situation. As Trae rotates over he passes to Thybulle who bobbles the pass before getting fouled. Should Simmons have dunked it? Should he have taken the contact as the better career FT shooter? Sure. Was it a selfish play? Hell no. I take a play like that 100 times over Knox's shot. You can build a team off that play. Pull Ben aside and pump him up etc. Wrong play but it was unselfish. I'm not sure how you coach a guy out of the Knox play. He's heard it all before.
Panos wrote:All Harrington was not a winning player.
We're building around team oriented players, not shot-jackers
Al was solid for like a year or two early on... but regardless I agree and its so refreshing
My only question is why some don't hate him like Frank. But I know the answer.
Anyway, "Basketball IQ" may be the issue. And I like that the FO is veering away to players who seem smart and solid. Of course I'd still like to see the kid succeed. Here.
This main issue with Knox is that if he's not hitting shots, he's pretty useless. He doesn't contribute in any other aspect aside from spreading the floor at the 4. He's kind of like a poor man's Novak.
And you can't call a lottery pick an underdog. Lottery picks are expected to contribute and Knox hasn't shown any signs he can do that in a rotation on a winning team. I don't think he'll be in the league next season. But maybe Dallas will sign him after waiving Frank. 
SergioNYK wrote:This main issue with Knox is that if he's not hitting shots, he's pretty useless. He doesn't contribute in any other aspect aside from spreading the floor at the 4. He's kind of like a poor man's Novak. And you can't call a lottery pick an underdog. Lottery picks are expected to contribute and Knox hasn't shown any signs he can do that in a rotation on a winning team. I don't think he'll be in the league next season. But maybe Dallas will sign him after waiving Frank.
He is certainly an underdog as he has under performed thus far. The major criticism I hear of him is lack of intense, gets easily winded etc. I hope he can overcome these obstacles and at least be a rotational player.
The ship on Knox appears to have sailed. But Knicks fans love their underdogs.
You watch him shoot, and the form is just so reminiscent to me of Allan Houston. I am sure that is what scouts and our front office fell in love with. And then you look at other players and you don’t see that, but they have a drive to want to win, and those players turn into something you never could have expected.
Donavan Mitchell was a player I wanted not because I thought he would become the great player he has, but because of his exposure to NY Sports media, I figured here was a kid that could handle pressure.
Same thing with some of the kids of NBA players. They know first hand what it’s like, the lights, the big stage.
I hope Knox finds a role. Sadly I don’t see it here.
There do seem to be a bunch of players that have a decent first year, and then fall out of the league.
Trey Burke kinda had that path- he was lucky and worked hard and turned things around.
Knox is still on the team?!
I wish him well but there is no way he is here past next summer. I think a team change will do him some good, if he can find the right team. He should get at least one more shot next year with another NBA team. If he fails then, he will be out of the league before he is 25. Personally, I think he has enough potential to bounce around the league for 2-5 more years.
I think he’s looking at a Doug McDermott type of career upside. He could also get a little thicker, get a little violent, and follow the path of the Morris Twins.
His growth and development has been superseded by the greater readiness/completeness from the likes of RJ/Randle/Obi/Burks/Fournier.
He may not have a single skill better than any of those other players, and the blend of his skills still don’t give him any specific niche either.
He could end up on a team that has less versatile competition for playing time. For example, let’s say he were on a team that had someone like Jae Crowder or PJ Tucker, he’d have a much easier time carving out a role when the matchups called for it.
Randle out tonite. Read his wife about to give birth. Truth is he is carrying the child. Thats what a bad ass he is!!!
So OBI gets the start and Knox gets time.
The box score won’t tell the whole tale.
Knox is gone the way of Frank. His agent should request a trade or release. How does a player go from being rookie of the month to an afterthought. Another giant Knicks failure to develop. Also a victims of favoritism. GMs coaches to many changes for any player to develop.
Release after 3 years and pay him 8mm to go away? I don’t think so. Unless a team is really after him and he gets a bonafide role what is his trade value? Has he shown to be a rotational player? Often a former coach who believes in him could take a flyer on him, but Lakers don’t have that kind of salary space. Buy outs for players that can land on another team and contribute. Are we really keeping him back?
Frank had a string of unfortunate circumstances when it mattered. Knox got covid at SL. He has yet to show he can do things without the ball or hitting shots. He’ll get preseaon look.
Knox is one of many in the league. After his rookie contract ends he could be free to land where needed and get another chance if he does not stick here.
