Knicks · More OBI and Randle Please..less mitch to start the season (page 1)

For all the positives that Mitch brings, he is a total clog in the paint, guys just can't penetrate when he is in the game because he and the guy guarding him are planted in the paint...jump shots and floaters from the FT line is all thats available for our guards

They're were a hand full of possession where by the time he made it down court on offense we were going back the other way, it's no wonder he was on fumes.

He is completely out of shape, and thats to be expected from all the time he missed, the weight he gained, plus he had no ability to work on his perimeter game, and he didn't start running until a week into training camp.

I wouldn't start him until January.

I'm also hoping the Pacers have a rough going early and the FIRE sale gets going by december...Myles Turner anyone?

<waits for denial>

Marv wrote:bwahahaha. after all the pissing you did in your cornflakes about how obi could NEVER play center in this league, you start a thread like this?

<waits for denial>

Marv wrote:bwahahaha. after all the pissing you did in your cornflakes about how obi could NEVER play center in this league, you start a thread like this?

<waits for denial>

There's some tough love here in the forum!

Obi's defense has been a pleasant surprise since day one and he finally seemed to put it all?together in the pressure cooker of the last game. I think it will give Thibs some confidence to try that lineup out during the season.

Mitchell and Noel can't dribble drive and pass- Taj looked great as did Obi during the preseason because they can. A lot of the Knicks defense is based on funneling guys into the paint to get blocked，I still expect that to be the plan most nights. Still，Thibs has options.

Rather than concentrate on what Mitchell couldn't do we should recognize the positives after the long lay off. He looks massive. The only way to compete with the Bucks and Hawks to come at them with equivalent swole- Taj，Obi，and Noel just don't have it. Once Mitchell gets his legs under him let's hope he has some 20/10 games in store.

Just sayin.

knicks1248 wrote:I really liked the line up we had out there to finish the preseason in Grand fashion.

For all the positives that Mitch brings, he is a total clog in the paint, guys just can't penetrate when he is in the game because he and the guy guarding him are planted in the paint...jump shots and floaters from the FT line is all thats available for our guards

They're were a hand full of possession where by the time he made it down court on offense we were going back the other way, it's no wonder he was on fumes.

He is completely out of shape, and thats to be expected from all the time he missed, the weight he gained, plus he had no ability to work on his perimeter game, and he didn't start running until a week into training camp.

I wouldn't start him until January.

I've given this ample consideration and I'm still okay with the NBA Coach of the Year's judgment on this one..

Noel’s injury provided the Knicks an opportunity to take a long look at rookie big man Jericho Sims, who has made the initial 15-man roster. Thibodeau also utilized a smaller lineup in the fourth quarter of Friday’s comeback win against Washington, using Julius Randle at center with Obi Toppin at power forward.

“Yeah, just to change the game. We have good depth,” Thibodeau said. “I think rim protection is important, but sometimes, you have to inject more energy, speed. So, it’s something that I think the way Obi has grown, I think it will allow us to do that more.”

Marv wrote:bwahahaha. after all the pissing you did in your cornflakes about how obi could NEVER play center in this league, you start a thread like this?

<waits for denial>

Ahhhhh, when was OBI playing Center, he was still playing the only position he's good at..PF.

The game is being played so fast, and players are shooting just an unbelievable amount of 3's from every position on the floor.

just pay attn to mitch in these highlights, he is just slow AF, and his IQ is just low. I mean he'll make some good plays here and there, but dudes are just flying by him on a regular

knicks1248 wrote:

Marv wrote:bwahahaha. after all the pissing you did in your cornflakes about how obi could NEVER play center in this league, you start a thread like this?

<waits for denial>

Ahhhhh, when was OBI playing Center, he was still playing the only position he's good at..PF.

The game is being played so fast, and players are shooting just an unbelievable amount of 3's from every position on the floor.

just pay attn to mitch in these highlights, he is just slow AF, and his IQ is just low. I mean he'll make some good plays here and there, but dudes are just flying by him on a regular

all right i stand corrected but that felt good anyway

If you gonna harp on the endless Myles turner thing at least look at their roster, how many contracts they have. Look at the Salaries and our roster, and think what makes sense in a trade. Maybe even plagiarize someones else’s work as some form of viable trade scenario. Don’t forget his contract status, potential valuation, and risks to both teams.

knicks1248 wrote:

Marv wrote:bwahahaha. after all the pissing you did in your cornflakes about how obi could NEVER play center in this league, you start a thread like this?

<waits for denial>

Ahhhhh, when was OBI playing Center, he was still playing the only position he's good at..PF.

The game is being played so fast, and players are shooting just an unbelievable amount of 3's from every position on the floor.

just pay attn to mitch in these highlights, he is just slow AF, and his IQ is just low. I mean he'll make some good plays here and there, but dudes are just flying by him on a regular

Little aggressive. Robinson certainly didn't look ready to play 28 minutes. That said, I think some of the worst plays were where the defense failed to rotate or the opposing guard got a foot forward in a PnR. He didn't have the same bounce that he had in prior years. So much of this is analyzing a guy's first game back. He was sluggish most of the game. He acknowledged that himself - so this isn't a revelation or a condemnation. Its a work in process.

I saw some real positive though. For instance. he made that 3/4 length outlet pass to Barrett. I saw him closing out to the three point line, even if he was a step slow. I saw him aggressive when he had the ball. I saw him bodying other players.

Easily needs another 10 games to get back to form. Maybe needs a season to understand his new weight.

I'm still a huge fan of his growth.

EwingsGlass wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Marv wrote:bwahahaha. after all the pissing you did in your cornflakes about how obi could NEVER play center in this league, you start a thread like this?

<waits for denial>

Ahhhhh, when was OBI playing Center, he was still playing the only position he's good at..PF.

The game is being played so fast, and players are shooting just an unbelievable amount of 3's from every position on the floor.

just pay attn to mitch in these highlights, he is just slow AF, and his IQ is just low. I mean he'll make some good plays here and there, but dudes are just flying by him on a regular

Little aggressive. Robinson certainly didn't look ready to play 28 minutes. That said, I think some of the worst plays were where the defense failed to rotate or the opposing guard got a foot forward in a PnR. He didn't have the same bounce that he had in prior years. So much of this is analyzing a guy's first game back. He was sluggish most of the game. He acknowledged that himself - so this isn't a revelation or a condemnation. Its a work in process.

I saw some real positive though. For instance. he made that 3/4 length outlet pass to Barrett. I saw him closing out to the three point line, even if he was a step slow. I saw him aggressive when he had the ball. I saw him bodying other players.

Easily needs another 10 games to get back to form. Maybe needs a season to understand his new weight.

I'm still a huge fan of his growth.

that foot has to stay together!!!!! Wonder if we resign him?

That's the measuring stick?

martin wrote:At the end of the game Obi and Randle were going up against the stout front court of Daniel Gafford and Avdija while patrolling the paint again rim runners in Neto, KCP and Kispert?

That's the measuring stick?

Martin, you with the details! Details matter?
They do to Thibs!!!! Not to 1248. He has a very short measure.
I saw Beal played just 9 minutes that game. Did he tweak something?

I get what Thibs does preseason. Just can't measure with being undefeated and not exactly against stellar comp.
Does it matter to Thibs that we went undefeated? Sure. Does it count? Nope.

martin wrote:At the end of the game Obi and Randle were going up against the stout front court of Daniel Gafford and Avdija while patrolling the paint again rim runners in Neto, KCP and Kispert?

That's the measuring stick?

EwingsGlass wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Marv wrote:bwahahaha. after all the pissing you did in your cornflakes about how obi could NEVER play center in this league, you start a thread like this?

<waits for denial>

Ahhhhh, when was OBI playing Center, he was still playing the only position he's good at..PF.

The game is being played so fast, and players are shooting just an unbelievable amount of 3's from every position on the floor.

just pay attn to mitch in these highlights, he is just slow AF, and his IQ is just low. I mean he'll make some good plays here and there, but dudes are just flying by him on a regular

Little aggressive. Robinson certainly didn't look ready to play 28 minutes. That said, I think some of the worst plays were where the defense failed to rotate or the opposing guard got a foot forward in a PnR. He didn't have the same bounce that he had in prior years. So much of this is analyzing a guy's first game back. He was sluggish most of the game. He acknowledged that himself - so this isn't a revelation or a condemnation. Its a work in process.

I saw some real positive though. For instance. he made that 3/4 length outlet pass to Barrett. I saw him closing out to the three point line, even if he was a step slow. I saw him aggressive when he had the ball. I saw him bodying other players.

Easily needs another 10 games to get back to form. Maybe needs a season to understand his new weight.

I'm still a huge fan of his growth.

Growth?

where exactly is the growth other than he stop committing silly fouls after 2 1/2 seasons.

I like Mitch, but this dude has to ADAPT to todays game and the way it's played..

All he can do is dunk the ball.... maybe it's just my expectations, but I need to see more if im extending his contract.

He was laboring down the court before the injury, and it's gotten worse for obvious reasons, he is usually the last guy down court on offense, the ball handler is usually 10 yards ahead of him, so forget about him on most fast breaks.

You can't even run a baseline back door because he's already in the paint, so he it makes easy for his man to protect the penetration and keep a him at arms length.

even on defense he was scared to come out and guard Harrell on the perimeter, because of fear of the blow by, so harrell drained a 15 footer right in his grill because he gave him 3 feet

knicks1248 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Marv wrote:bwahahaha. after all the pissing you did in your cornflakes about how obi could NEVER play center in this league, you start a thread like this?

<waits for denial>

Ahhhhh, when was OBI playing Center, he was still playing the only position he's good at..PF.

The game is being played so fast, and players are shooting just an unbelievable amount of 3's from every position on the floor.

just pay attn to mitch in these highlights, he is just slow AF, and his IQ is just low. I mean he'll make some good plays here and there, but dudes are just flying by him on a regular

Little aggressive. Robinson certainly didn't look ready to play 28 minutes. That said, I think some of the worst plays were where the defense failed to rotate or the opposing guard got a foot forward in a PnR. He didn't have the same bounce that he had in prior years. So much of this is analyzing a guy's first game back. He was sluggish most of the game. He acknowledged that himself - so this isn't a revelation or a condemnation. Its a work in process.

I saw some real positive though. For instance. he made that 3/4 length outlet pass to Barrett. I saw him closing out to the three point line, even if he was a step slow. I saw him aggressive when he had the ball. I saw him bodying other players.

Easily needs another 10 games to get back to form. Maybe needs a season to understand his new weight.

I'm still a huge fan of his growth.

Growth?

where exactly is the growth other than he stop committing silly fouls after 2 1/2 seasons.

I like Mitch, but this dude has to ADAPT to todays game and the way it's played..

All he can do is dunk the ball.... maybe it's just my expectations, but I need to see more if im extending his contract.

He was laboring down the court before the injury, and it's gotten worse for obvious reasons, he is usually the last guy down court on offense, the ball handler is usually 10 yards ahead of him, so forget about him on most fast breaks.

You can't even run a baseline back door because he's already in the paint, so he it makes easy for his man to protect the penetration and keep a him at arms length.

even on defense he was scared to come out and guard Harrell on the perimeter, because of fear of the blow by, so harrell drained a 15 footer right in his grill because he gave him 3 feet

Growth - as in put on 30 lbs of muscle.

Using this first game back to generalize about his overall skill set is just a waste of time. His conditioning is not there yet. I don't think you can extrapolate his performance for this season or his career based on this game. He was clearly sluggish and slow footed.

He was chasing guards out to the perimeter all game. This is my point about the lack of defensive rotations (or communication). Robinson is chasing Beal to the 3pt line all day while the guards are getting lost on PnRs. He's pinning his man and no one is rotating to guard the 3 ball.

Regardless - as a first game back, I am still encouraged. I think you are looking for reasons to knock the guy while I am happy he is on the court - something you said would not happen until January in other threads.

martin wrote:At the end of the game Obi and Randle were going up against the stout front court of Daniel Gafford and Avdija while patrolling the paint again rim runners in Neto, KCP and Kispert?

That's the measuring stick?

You can get away with Obi at Center against the Wizards, run that line-up against the 76ers, Bucks, Bulls, Miami, Cavs or Hawks its a different animal all together. I did not like the Obi pick it all, but he has played really well this pre-season. The more good players we have, the better chance we can make a trade for an elite wing or PG. Obi plays well maybe you don't have to gut the roster for Beal or Lillard

knicks1248 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Marv wrote:bwahahaha. after all the pissing you did in your cornflakes about how obi could NEVER play center in this league, you start a thread like this?

<waits for denial>

Ahhhhh, when was OBI playing Center, he was still playing the only position he's good at..PF.

The game is being played so fast, and players are shooting just an unbelievable amount of 3's from every position on the floor.

just pay attn to mitch in these highlights, he is just slow AF, and his IQ is just low. I mean he'll make some good plays here and there, but dudes are just flying by him on a regular

Little aggressive. Robinson certainly didn't look ready to play 28 minutes. That said, I think some of the worst plays were where the defense failed to rotate or the opposing guard got a foot forward in a PnR. He didn't have the same bounce that he had in prior years. So much of this is analyzing a guy's first game back. He was sluggish most of the game. He acknowledged that himself - so this isn't a revelation or a condemnation. Its a work in process.

I saw some real positive though. For instance. he made that 3/4 length outlet pass to Barrett. I saw him closing out to the three point line, even if he was a step slow. I saw him aggressive when he had the ball. I saw him bodying other players.

Easily needs another 10 games to get back to form. Maybe needs a season to understand his new weight.

I'm still a huge fan of his growth.

Growth?

where exactly is the growth other than he stop committing silly fouls after 2 1/2 seasons.

I like Mitch, but this dude has to ADAPT to todays game and the way it's played..

All he can do is dunk the ball.... maybe it's just my expectations, but I need to see more if im extending his contract.

He was laboring down the court before the injury, and it's gotten worse for obvious reasons, he is usually the last guy down court on offense, the ball handler is usually 10 yards ahead of him, so forget about him on most fast breaks.

You can't even run a baseline back door because he's already in the paint, so he it makes easy for his man to protect the penetration and keep a him at arms length.

even on defense he was scared to come out and guard Harrell on the perimeter, because of fear of the blow by, so harrell drained a 15 footer right in his grill because he gave him 3 feet

You lost any sympathy I had with this post. Harrell shooting a 15 footer is a win for the defense. He has to make 3 of those before I worry about guarding him.

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:At the end of the game Obi and Randle were going up against the stout front court of Daniel Gafford and Avdija while patrolling the paint again rim runners in Neto, KCP and Kispert?

That's the measuring stick?

You can get away with Obi at Center against the Wizards, run that line-up against the 76ers, Bucks, Bulls, Miami, Cavs or Hawks its a different animal all together. I did not like the Obi pick it all, but he has played really well this pre-season. The more good players we have, the better chance we can make a trade for an elite wing or PG. Obi plays well maybe you don't have to gut the roster for Beal or Lillard

As long as Obi can rebound the way he has in the preseason, I think he can play C minutes against any team except the ones with a Post up center. Meaning the Bucks, Sixers are the only two I would be worried about.

He’s faster than starting Center in the league, he creates more fast break points.
I’m hoping he plays against the Celtics, I think he’s a great matchup as Horford since Al is a just a stretch 5 nowadays