xavier wrote:franco12 wrote:My wish in the off season would have been to sign Ball. I haven’t watched the bulls play, but maybe the move would have been for DeRozan or Spencer Dinwiddie.
A good portion of us wanted Ball, but unfortunately he went to Chicago. DeRozan is not an ideal solution in the long run, which I wrote, but in the short term he is certainly a much "stronger" player than Fournier. So the Bulls hit pretty good with reinforcements and now they have a LaVine-DeRozan-Ball-Vucevic core which is realistically a lot stronger than our core.
Derozan 2021 = Amare 2010
Both guys started out hot with their new teams. And then reality hit
smackeddog wrote:After 5 games you wanted IQ benched, 5 games later you made a thread calling for him to be made starter. Yet still you find the concept of patience outrageous.
one might even say stupid... especially when you talk about body language and chemistry. How was IQ's body language and chemistry last night? Dude played like a real piece of the future last night on both ends of the floor
Philc1 wrote:xavier wrote:franco12 wrote:My wish in the off season would have been to sign Ball. I haven’t watched the bulls play, but maybe the move would have been for DeRozan or Spencer Dinwiddie.
A good portion of us wanted Ball, but unfortunately he went to Chicago. DeRozan is not an ideal solution in the long run, which I wrote, but in the short term he is certainly a much "stronger" player than Fournier. So the Bulls hit pretty good with reinforcements and now they have a LaVine-DeRozan-Ball-Vucevic core which is realistically a lot stronger than our core.
Derozan 2021 = Amare 2010
Both guys started out hot with their new teams. And then reality hit
Derozen never had an injured history, he wasn't asked to come in and carry the team, and he certainly is not being run to the ground like MDA did to Amare his first 3 months, so I'm not sure why your comparing the 2, It's no comparison on any level.
Philc1 wrote:xavier wrote:franco12 wrote:My wish in the off season would have been to sign Ball. I haven’t watched the bulls play, but maybe the move would have been for DeRozan or Spencer Dinwiddie.
A good portion of us wanted Ball, but unfortunately he went to Chicago. DeRozan is not an ideal solution in the long run, which I wrote, but in the short term he is certainly a much "stronger" player than Fournier. So the Bulls hit pretty good with reinforcements and now they have a LaVine-DeRozan-Ball-Vucevic core which is realistically a lot stronger than our core.
Derozan 2021 = Amare 2010
Both guys started out hot with their new teams. And then reality hit
You can do this after 20% of the season passed and project 5 years? That was Amare’s contract.
Amare had knee and back issues to the degree PHX only offered 3 years. That was the right time frame. We made him an offer he could not refuse.
Is DeRozen paid like a tier one star for 5 years? Nope, 81mm over 3 years. Amare got like 100mil over 5 years. ELEVEN YEARS AGO!!!!
Is Derozen injury prone with prexisting issues? Nope. He is the 3rd option for now. Good player.
Not our timeline and at the end of the day Bulls wanted him and got via sign and trade. Was it a good idea?
lets see how it plays out. THat is reality.
knicks1248 wrote:Philc1 wrote:xavier wrote:franco12 wrote:My wish in the off season would have been to sign Ball. I haven’t watched the bulls play, but maybe the move would have been for DeRozan or Spencer Dinwiddie.
A good portion of us wanted Ball, but unfortunately he went to Chicago. DeRozan is not an ideal solution in the long run, which I wrote, but in the short term he is certainly a much "stronger" player than Fournier. So the Bulls hit pretty good with reinforcements and now they have a LaVine-DeRozan-Ball-Vucevic core which is realistically a lot stronger than our core.
Derozan 2021 = Amare 2010
Both guys started out hot with their new teams. And then reality hit
Derozen never had an injured history, he wasn't asked to come in and carry the team, and he certainly is not being run to the ground like MDA did to Amare his first 3 months, so I'm not sure why your comparing the 2, It's no comparison on any level.
He’s 32 and the season just started. The wall is coming
Nalod wrote:Philc1 wrote:xavier wrote:franco12 wrote:My wish in the off season would have been to sign Ball. I haven’t watched the bulls play, but maybe the move would have been for DeRozan or Spencer Dinwiddie.
A good portion of us wanted Ball, but unfortunately he went to Chicago. DeRozan is not an ideal solution in the long run, which I wrote, but in the short term he is certainly a much "stronger" player than Fournier. So the Bulls hit pretty good with reinforcements and now they have a LaVine-DeRozan-Ball-Vucevic core which is realistically a lot stronger than our core.
Derozan 2021 = Amare 2010
Both guys started out hot with their new teams. And then reality hit
You can do this after 20% of the season passed and project 5 years? That was Amare’s contract.
Amare had knee and back issues to the degree PHX only offered 3 years. That was the right time frame. We made him an offer he could not refuse.
Is DeRozen paid like a tier one star for 5 years? Nope, 81mm over 3 years. Amare got like 100mil over 5 years. ELEVEN YEARS AGO!!!!
Is Derozen injury prone with prexisting issues? Nope. He is the 3rd option for now. Good player.
Not our timeline and at the end of the day Bulls wanted him and got via sign and trade. Was it a good idea?
lets see how it plays out. THat is reality.
He’s 32 and it’s an 82 game season. Reality is undefeated
We can be patient all we want. Fourmier and Kemba sets us back defensibly and there is no miracle change. I think with Fourmier we spent money for money sake. A possible upgrade to Bullock but we did not think about the other side of the ball. Now locked into big $$$$
we also have a coach who will do the same thing day in day out with no thought to change--but what gonna change? Only way to do it is to DO IT
BRIGGS wrote:We can be patient all we want. Fourmier and Kemba sets us back defensibly and there is no miracle change. I think with Fourmier we spent money for money sake. A possible upgrade to Bullock but we did not think about the other side of the ball. Now locked into big $$$$we also have a coach who will do the same thing day in day out with no thought to change--but what gonna change? Only way to do it is to DO IT
quit being a twat. The person doing the same thing day in and day out is you. Starting crying threads and this one isnt even accurate. Didnt Thibs bench the starters and play the bench the entire 4th? Didnt he extend the bench minutes a game that? Didnt he replace guys struggling like RJ/Kemba/EF with Burks/IQ/Rose? Those differences in minutes and rotations is "doing the same thing?"
BRIGGS wrote:We can be patient all we want. Fourmier and Kemba sets us back defensibly and there is no miracle change. I think with Fourmier we spent money for money sake. A possible upgrade to Bullock but we did not think about the other side of the ball. Now locked into big $$$$we also have a coach who will do the same thing day in day out with no thought to change--but what gonna change? Only way to do it is to DO IT
You can’t have Kemba and Fournier on the court at the same time. Neither guy can defend and tbh they don’t even look willing
And it’s not as simple as “just have one of them come off the bench” because you then weaken the second unit which has won games for us
were gonna patience ourselves into the lottery
This was apparent when we were 4-1 But its ez to hide behind 4-1
Other than Julius--man I would try full scale changes
Play Julius at C and hell be the biggest mismatch night mare in the league
Put Obi at the 4
Burcks at 3
Grimes at 2
IQ at 1 guard
6th man Barrett
C Noel/robinson
PG Rose
SG Fournier
Use Kemba off the bench as a utility/situational scorer if we go ten deep
Play fast and then come in with a solid unit 2
BRIGGS wrote:were gonna patience ourselves into the lotteryThis was apparent when we were 4-1 But its ez to hide behind 4-1
Other than Julius--man I would try full scale changes
Play Julius at C and hell be the biggest mismatch night mare in the league
Put Obi at the 4
Burcks at 3
Grimes at 2
IQ at 1 guard
6th man Barrett
C Noel/robinson
PG Rose
SG Fournier
Use Kemba off the bench as a utility/situational scorer if we go ten deep
Play fast and then come in with a solid unit 2
Grimes fever, “catch it”…..
This is a dead team that needs an injection of life
BRIGGS wrote:This is a dead team that needs an injection of life
I hate to say it but thibs needs to trust Walker and Fournier more. They are sucking but need to trust who they are and let them play thru it. The starting lineup isn’t going to develop chemistry with such limited and fluctuating minutes and those 2 aren’t going to snap out of it playing 20 mpg or less. They need to be given the benefit of the doubt for an extended period of time and if they are still struggling by Dec 15 than time to search for a trade.
BRIGGS wrote:were gonna patience ourselves into the lotteryThis was apparent when we were 4-1 But its ez to hide behind 4-1
Other than Julius--man I would try full scale changes
Play Julius at C and hell be the biggest mismatch night mare in the league
Put Obi at the 4
Burcks at 3
Grimes at 2
IQ at 1 guard
6th man Barrett
C Noel/robinson
PG Rose
SG Fournier
Use Kemba off the bench as a utility/situational scorer if we go ten deep
Play fast and then come in with a solid unit 2
Problem is you can’t start Rose or otherwise he gets burned out by the 3rd quarter
Philc1 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:were gonna patience ourselves into the lotteryThis was apparent when we were 4-1 But its ez to hide behind 4-1
Other than Julius--man I would try full scale changes
Play Julius at C and hell be the biggest mismatch night mare in the league
Put Obi at the 4
Burcks at 3
Grimes at 2
IQ at 1 guard
6th man Barrett
C Noel/robinson
PG Rose
SG Fournier
Use Kemba off the bench as a utility/situational scorer if we go ten deep
Play fast and then come in with a solid unit 2
Problem is you can’t start Rose or otherwise he gets burned out by the 3rd quarter
Yeah Im keeping him unit 2 no matter what.
Im thinking if we can move Fourmier and Barrett to unit 2 they can play with less pressure. the starting line up becomes faster.
BRIGGS wrote:Philc1 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:were gonna patience ourselves into the lotteryThis was apparent when we were 4-1 But its ez to hide behind 4-1
Other than Julius--man I would try full scale changes
Play Julius at C and hell be the biggest mismatch night mare in the league
Put Obi at the 4
Burcks at 3
Grimes at 2
IQ at 1 guard
6th man Barrett
C Noel/robinson
PG Rose
SG Fournier
Use Kemba off the bench as a utility/situational scorer if we go ten deep
Play fast and then come in with a solid unit 2
Problem is you can’t start Rose or otherwise he gets burned out by the 3rd quarter
Yeah Im keeping him unit 2 no matter what.
Im thinking if we can move Fourmier and Barrett to unit 2 they can play with less pressure. the starting line up becomes faster.
I know Barrett’s shooting has sucked last 10 games but last night his defense and rebounding was off the charts good
Slumps happen. IQ couldn’t put the ball in the ocean first 10 games of the year now everyone wants him to play 48 minutes a night
Fournier is probably getting benched after we go 2-3 games below .500
We don't play enough small ball, and the starters are strictly a half court team that will struggle to score because they will always face a set defense on almost every possessions..
kemba is the new ELF, so we still haven't solved our PG issue and Randle is still our primary Ball handler, who walks the ball up court LIKE FRANK on almost every possession
When Randle posts up and draw double teams, nobody moves and rotates to the open spot the way Bullocks did by the time they do, it's 4 to 5 seconds left on the shot clock resulting in a rush shot, or turnover...that's why Founier and RJ shoot so poorly, they hardly get good rhythm shots
knicks1248 wrote:We don't play enough small ball, and the starters are strictly a half court team that will struggle to score because they will always face a set defense on almost every possessions..kemba is the new ELF, so we still haven't solved our PG issue and Randle is still our primary Ball handler, who walks the ball up court LIKE FRANK on almost every possession
When Randle posts up and draw double teams, nobody moves and rotates to the open spot the way Bullocks did by the time they do, it's 4 to 5 seconds left on the shot clock resulting in a rush shot, or turnover...that's why Founier and RJ shoot so poorly, they hardly get good rhythm shots
This seems like a stretch by even your standards.
BRIGGS wrote:This is a dead team that needs an injection of life
What drives me insane is when we have 3 players on the court who can facilitate, pass and handle the ball, but insist in giving the ball to Randle every possession to make something happen, while they stand back and watch him dribble and turn the ball over- it's so frustrating!
fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:We can be patient all we want. Fourmier and Kemba sets us back defensibly and there is no miracle change. I think with Fourmier we spent money for money sake. A possible upgrade to Bullock but we did not think about the other side of the ball. Now locked into big $$$$we also have a coach who will do the same thing day in day out with no thought to change--but what gonna change? Only way to do it is to DO IT
quit being a twat. The person doing the same thing day in and day out is you. Starting crying threads and this one isnt even accurate. Didnt Thibs bench the starters and play the bench the entire 4th? Didnt he extend the bench minutes a game that? Didnt he replace guys struggling like RJ/Kemba/EF with Burks/IQ/Rose? Those differences in minutes and rotations is "doing the same thing?"
I'll agree Briggs whines a lot, but while you're right that Thibs has changed playing time around, this team needs some more dramatic change. I don't understand why he is set with having the bench unit together- please switch some things up, get IQ and Obi into the starting line, see if that sparks any signs of life into RJ & Randle.
And I do wonder if we had a coach like 
if we'd be talking about the same kind of struggles. I think there is a way to teach guys to think about basketball and while I have been surprised by some of the offensive outbursts we've had, overwhelmingly it seems like we play unimaginative basketball system wise.
Thibs won't be the first COY winner to be fired 
Taking a step back. We all assumed we'd be better this year. I didn't think it was a guarantee, but it's safe to understand how fans felt that way, how our front office and coaching staff felt this way.
There are some new parts that on paper seem to make us better.
Maybe they need time to figure out how to play together.
But I think what we have witnessed is a whole lot of warts that we didn't see before.
Nothing is guaranteed in sports. That's why it's better than watching reruns of the same old crap on TV.
Last year was special.
I hope Thibs can make some adjustments.
franco12 wrote:fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:We can be patient all we want. Fourmier and Kemba sets us back defensibly and there is no miracle change. I think with Fourmier we spent money for money sake. A possible upgrade to Bullock but we did not think about the other side of the ball. Now locked into big $$$$we also have a coach who will do the same thing day in day out with no thought to change--but what gonna change? Only way to do it is to DO IT
quit being a twat. The person doing the same thing day in and day out is you. Starting crying threads and this one isnt even accurate. Didnt Thibs bench the starters and play the bench the entire 4th? Didnt he extend the bench minutes a game that? Didnt he replace guys struggling like RJ/Kemba/EF with Burks/IQ/Rose? Those differences in minutes and rotations is "doing the same thing?"
I'll agree Briggs whines a lot, but while you're right that Thibs has changed playing time around, this team needs some more dramatic change. I don't understand why he is set with having the bench unit together- please switch some things up, get IQ and Obi into the starting line, see if that sparks any signs of life into RJ & Randle.
And I do wonder if we had a coach like if we'd be talking about the same kind of struggles. I think there is a way to teach guys to think about basketball and while I have been surprised by some of the offensive outbursts we've had, overwhelmingly it seems like we play unimaginative basketball system wise.
Thibs won't be the first COY winner to be fired
Taking a step back. We all assumed we'd be better this year. I didn't think it was a guarantee, but it's safe to understand how fans felt that way, how our front office and coaching staff felt this way.
There are some new parts that on paper seem to make us better.
Maybe they need time to figure out how to play together.
But I think what we have witnessed is a whole lot of warts that we didn't see before.
Nothing is guaranteed in sports. That's why it's better than watching reruns of the same old crap on TV.
Last year was special.
I hope Thibs can make some adjustments.
the 10 best players we have are the ones in the rotation right now. If there was a savior on the bench he would be getting minutes. IQ got minutes right away last year because the coaching staff saw he was worth it. Last night Burks played 30 minutes. IQ played 25. Randle/RJ/
Rose/Burks/IQ had the most minutes last night. I made some bold because that is proof of adjustments. Who cares if you start but dont play in crunch time.
Franco 2 weeks ago you wanted to bench IQ for Grimes. Now you want to start him. You think you can jerk around NBA players playing time like that? It doesnt work that way. Sustainable winning doesnt come from sparks. It comes from what Thibs said.. everyone knowing what their job is and doing it and doing it well. There's no excuses these guys need to play better from what we have seen Thibs is supportive until he isnt (see Knox, Frank, DSjr)
