Knicks · Scattered uneven play too reliant on 3 (page 2)

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Our biggest issue is there is no Glue guy, Last yr Bullock missed 7 games and we were 1-6 in those games.

Somebody mention this in another thread, who the hell is our glue guy in the starting unit, it really should be Mitch, but he can't pass, and he can't guard the perimeter.

Anybody can see that mitch belongs with the second unit, that group plays together, plays faster, moves the ball better, plays with the most energy.

Taj or Noel is a much better fit for the starting unit, but none of those guys can stay healthy enough to get anything accomplish.

Did we really just invest 21 mill in NOEL, the guy who's suing his X agent for loss wages.... WTF

You are right. There is no glue guy. That is why they need to trade for Simmons. He is that guy who can make everyone better. For all his faults Payton was a glue guy. That kept Randle efficient, there were multiple glue guys on the team. Bullock, Payton, Frank. These guys aren’t looking to score every trip down, they were creating flow for the others. The defense has fallen as well. We need to get a guy who looks to pass, plays defense. I think Simmons is that guy. Lonzo was my ideal choice in free agency for me. But that ship has sailed. Would look to get Simmons in any trade scenario.

Thing with Simmons is you need 4 shooters around him to be successful. So, is he a C in a small ball lineup? Can you live with him with Mitch/Noel?

Agree....it works if Simmons plays center. But as good as Simmons is on defense, he's not a rim protector like Mitch. So the rim would be wide open. Switch out Mitch and input Turner or some other center who can shoot and you have a winning team. But Simmons is tricky to build around. I feel the same way with Randle. He's not a shooter, but he puts up 11 shoot attempts from 3? At least RJ attacks the rim and plays defense. RJ brings energy. So when his shot isn't falling, it's not a total hit because he does other things well.

Morey is on some other stuff and I'm not sure he's desperate enough to make that deal yet. I'd stay away from the Ben situation for the time being. My problem with Lonzo, and you still see it, is that he doesn't touch the paint and create in the half court. DeRozan and Lavine still do most of the heavy lifting for Chicago in the half court. I'd expect the same here and I think Julius still wouldn't respect Lonzo enough to hand over the keys.

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Our biggest issue is there is no Glue guy, Last yr Bullock missed 7 games and we were 1-6 in those games.

Somebody mention this in another thread, who the hell is our glue guy in the starting unit, it really should be Mitch, but he can't pass, and he can't guard the perimeter.

Anybody can see that mitch belongs with the second unit, that group plays together, plays faster, moves the ball better, plays with the most energy.

Taj or Noel is a much better fit for the starting unit, but none of those guys can stay healthy enough to get anything accomplish.

Did we really just invest 21 mill in NOEL, the guy who's suing his X agent for loss wages.... WTF

You are right. There is no glue guy. That is why they need to trade for Simmons. He is that guy who can make everyone better. For all his faults Payton was a glue guy. That kept Randle efficient, there were multiple glue guys on the team. Bullock, Payton, Frank. These guys aren’t looking to score every trip down, they were creating flow for the others. The defense has fallen as well. We need to get a guy who looks to pass, plays defense. I think Simmons is that guy. Lonzo was my ideal choice in free agency for me. But that ship has sailed. Would look to get Simmons in any trade scenario.

Thing with Simmons is you need 4 shooters around him to be successful. So, is he a C in a small ball lineup? Can you live with him with Mitch/Noel?

Let’s not make him out to be a non scorer. He does average 15-17 points a game. What Simmons does is allow for Quickly, to play. The line up consists of shooters and decent passers on the floor. What people for get is he a really good defensive player as well.

It has less to do with Simmons as a scorer and more to do with having 2 non shooters on the floor at the same time. Can you survive or thrive with Mitch/Noel and Simmons on the floor at same time?

Looking all over Knicks forums(not just this one) it seems like a lot of people are really down on the team. I still believe in this team. I just think we don't have people in the right place to succeed.

I think RJ and Mitch would flourish with the bench.

Noel is needed in the starting lineup because he is by far our best defender and he proved to work well with Randle last year.

I would start Burks in place of RJ.

I would switch Quick with EF. We can't have Kemba and EF starting at the same time. That has only led the old starters to the worse defensive rating in NBA history.

No more Randle ISO's. Use him as a decoy and have him only shoot when he is going down hill or wide open. Randle is too inefficient to have the ball continually going through him.

If Obi is having a great game and Randle in not his minutes will increase in that game. I don't play favorites.

Kemba will have a short leash. If he is looking like he is having a bad shooting night his time will be cut because his defense is too bad to allow for bad shooting.

I think this new mix of starters and bench would help put everyone in a better place to succeed.

Starters - Kemba, Quick, Burks, Randle, Noel
Better mix of defenders who are also shot makers. Just have to make sure the ball does not stick to Randle.

Bench - Rose, EF, RJ, Obi, Mitch
Still athletic and fast. RJ is best in transition so he would thrive. Mitch and Obi will be catching lobs from Rose. EF will play better with the increased ball movement and player movement from the bench players.

Clean wrote:Looking all over Knicks forums(not just this one) it seems like a lot of people are really down on the team. I still believe in this team. I just think we don't have people in the right place to succeed.

I think RJ and Mitch would flourish with the bench.

Noel is needed in the starting lineup because he is by far our best defender and he proved to work well with Randle last year.

I would start Burks in place of RJ.

I would switch Quick with EF. We can't have Kemba and EF starting at the same time. That has only led the old starters to the worse defensive rating in NBA history.

No more Randle ISO's. Use him as a decoy and have him only shoot when he is going down hill or wide open. Randle is too inefficient to have the ball continually going through him.

If Obi is having a great game and Randle in not his minutes will increase in that game. I don't play favorites.

Kemba will have a short leash. If he is looking like he is having a bad shooting night his time will be cut because his defense is too bad to allow for bad shooting.

I think this new mix of starters and bench would help put everyone in a better place to succeed.

Starters - Kemba, Quick, Burks, Randle, Noel
Better mix of defenders who are also shot makers. Just have to make sure the ball does not stick to Randle.

Bench - Rose, EF, RJ, Obi, Mitch
Still athletic and fast. RJ is best in transition so he would thrive. Mitch and Obi will be catching lobs from Rose. EF will play better with the increased ball movement and player movement from the bench players.

Weve needed a shake up. Sounds contradictory to the thread title but its obvious. Maybe Burcks for Fourmier is the avenue. Let Fourmier play off the bench

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Our biggest issue is there is no Glue guy, Last yr Bullock missed 7 games and we were 1-6 in those games.

Somebody mention this in another thread, who the hell is our glue guy in the starting unit, it really should be Mitch, but he can't pass, and he can't guard the perimeter.

Anybody can see that mitch belongs with the second unit, that group plays together, plays faster, moves the ball better, plays with the most energy.

Taj or Noel is a much better fit for the starting unit, but none of those guys can stay healthy enough to get anything accomplish.

Did we really just invest 21 mill in NOEL, the guy who's suing his X agent for loss wages.... WTF

You are right. There is no glue guy. That is why they need to trade for Simmons. He is that guy who can make everyone better. For all his faults Payton was a glue guy. That kept Randle efficient, there were multiple glue guys on the team. Bullock, Payton, Frank. These guys aren’t looking to score every trip down, they were creating flow for the others. The defense has fallen as well. We need to get a guy who looks to pass, plays defense. I think Simmons is that guy. Lonzo was my ideal choice in free agency for me. But that ship has sailed. Would look to get Simmons in any trade scenario.

Thing with Simmons is you need 4 shooters around him to be successful. So, is he a C in a small ball lineup? Can you live with him with Mitch/Noel?

Let’s not make him out to be a non scorer. He does average 15-17 points a game. What Simmons does is allow for Quickly, to play. The line up consists of shooters and decent passers on the floor. What people for get is he a really good defensive player as well.

It has less to do with Simmons as a scorer and more to do with having 2 non shooters on the floor at the same time. Can you survive or thrive with Mitch/Noel and Simmons on the floor at same time?

I can see it and see it being successful. Like I said he can score I’ll take two point FG I have no problem with it. I’m not to enamored with continuous three pointers as the only means to get points.

Clean wrote:Looking all over Knicks forums(not just this one) it seems like a lot of people are really down on the team. I still believe in this team. I just think we don't have people in the right place to succeed.

I think RJ and Mitch would flourish with the bench.

Noel is needed in the starting lineup because he is by far our best defender and he proved to work well with Randle last year.

I would start Burks in place of RJ.

I would switch Quick with EF. We can't have Kemba and EF starting at the same time. That has only led the old starters to the worse defensive rating in NBA history.

No more Randle ISO's. Use him as a decoy and have him only shoot when he is going down hill or wide open. Randle is too inefficient to have the ball continually going through him.

If Obi is having a great game and Randle in not his minutes will increase in that game. I don't play favorites.

Kemba will have a short leash. If he is looking like he is having a bad shooting night his time will be cut because his defense is too bad to allow for bad shooting.

I think this new mix of starters and bench would help put everyone in a better place to succeed.

Starters - Kemba, Quick, Burks, Randle, Noel
Better mix of defenders who are also shot makers. Just have to make sure the ball does not stick to Randle.

Bench - Rose, EF, RJ, Obi, Mitch
Still athletic and fast. RJ is best in transition so he would thrive. Mitch and Obi will be catching lobs from Rose. EF will play better with the increased ball movement and player movement from the bench players.

I’d move RJ to SF and start IQ at the 2. RJ and IQ together would have both our best perimeter defenders on the floor together. Kemba has taken a beating from the fans but his shooting first several games of the year was really good

Burks I like as instant offense off the bench

Philc1 wrote:

Clean wrote:Looking all over Knicks forums(not just this one) it seems like a lot of people are really down on the team. I still believe in this team. I just think we don't have people in the right place to succeed.

I think RJ and Mitch would flourish with the bench.

Noel is needed in the starting lineup because he is by far our best defender and he proved to work well with Randle last year.

I would start Burks in place of RJ.

I would switch Quick with EF. We can't have Kemba and EF starting at the same time. That has only led the old starters to the worse defensive rating in NBA history.

No more Randle ISO's. Use him as a decoy and have him only shoot when he is going down hill or wide open. Randle is too inefficient to have the ball continually going through him.

If Obi is having a great game and Randle in not his minutes will increase in that game. I don't play favorites.

Kemba will have a short leash. If he is looking like he is having a bad shooting night his time will be cut because his defense is too bad to allow for bad shooting.

I think this new mix of starters and bench would help put everyone in a better place to succeed.

Starters - Kemba, Quick, Burks, Randle, Noel
Better mix of defenders who are also shot makers. Just have to make sure the ball does not stick to Randle.

Bench - Rose, EF, RJ, Obi, Mitch
Still athletic and fast. RJ is best in transition so he would thrive. Mitch and Obi will be catching lobs from Rose. EF will play better with the increased ball movement and player movement from the bench players.

I’d move RJ to SF and start IQ at the 2. RJ and IQ together would have both our best perimeter defenders on the floor together. Kemba has taken a beating from the fans but his shooting first several games of the year was really good

Burks I like as instant offense off the bench

I would be down to try that. It can't be worse than what we have now. How hard can it be to improve on the worst defensive rating in NBA history.

He does have some issues that don't seem to be getting better:

1. Bad court awareness...dribbles into double teams and usually gets stripped from the back side.
2. Slows down the pace and continuity...looks like he's trying to be like LeBron to get attentions ( I hope not )
3. Too sloppy with the ball...too many unforced turnovers.
4. Situational play is lacking...his play is not consistent in pressure situations.

On balance he's doing more harm then good.

We have a thread going for every player in the starting 5, which means they are all playing super inconsistent.

Randle......whats wrong with him?
Fournier....what a waste of $$$
Kemba.......One mans trash is another mans treasure, well that doesn't apply here
RJ..........Is this just another slow start
Mitch.......out of shape, out of touch and running out of time..you cringe every time he hit's the floor

This unit has no idea what their roles are, no fkng idea..

I watched on 4 straight possession each of them go 1 on 1, after one pass, Then there will be a time where they're just over passing and hesitant.

"WE NEED TO SHOOT MORE THREE'S" right out of the gate from Media Day on...Look good in preseason, but how about that ZONE DEFENSE, and you ask why Randle took 10 3's.

It's the transition 3's in rhythm the slow ass starting unit doesn't get, they wait for the opposing team set up their zone defense and launch 3 point bricks..because they aren't good rhythm shots

That unit is all about Randle and RJ....every body else find a corner and do the little sht, make sure those 2 get good shots, is that simple..

That's what Payton, Noel and Bullock did

ccch wrote:He does have some issues that don't seem to be getting better:

1. Bad court awareness...dribbles into double teams and usually gets stripped from the back side.
2. Slows down the pace and continuity...looks like he's trying to be like LeBron to get attentions ( I hope not )
3. Too sloppy with the ball...too many unforced turnovers.
4. Situational play is lacking...his play is not consistent in pressure situations.

On balance he's doing more harm then good.

So he’s just playing the same way he was prior to last season?

We must be the only "3pt shooting" team that just can't figure out a zone. Zones kill us every single time a team goes to it. Look at the last 2 quarters of the Magic game where we beat them by 30. They threw a zone at us in the second half and noticed we could not figure it out. This is why after going up about 30 in the 1st half we played them even in the second half. They used that to then kill us at MSG.

Clean wrote:We must be the only "3pt shooting" team that just can't figure out a zone. Zones kill us every single time a team goes to it. Look at the last 2 quarters of the Magic game where we beat them by 30. They threw a zone at us in the second half and noticed we could not figure it out. This is why after going up about 30 in the 1st half we played them even in the second half. They used that to then kill us at MSG.

When you don’t hit 3’s the zone kills you. We couldn’t buy a 3 last game against the magic we shot 32%. Our free throw shooting was absolute dogsh t too

knicks1248 wrote:We have a thread going for every player in the starting 5, which means they are all playing super inconsistent.

Randle......whats wrong with him?
Fournier....what a waste of $$$
Kemba.......One mans trash is another mans treasure, well that doesn't apply here
RJ..........Is this just another slow start
Mitch.......out of shape, out of touch and running out of time..you cringe every time he hit's the floor

This unit has no idea what their roles are, no fkng idea..

I watched on 4 straight possession each of them go 1 on 1, after one pass, Then there will be a time where they're just over passing and hesitant.

"WE NEED TO SHOOT MORE THREE'S" right out of the gate from Media Day on...Look good in preseason, but how about that ZONE DEFENSE, and you ask why Randle took 10 3's.

It's the transition 3's in rhythm the slow ass starting unit doesn't get, they wait for the opposing team set up their zone defense and launch 3 point bricks..because they aren't good rhythm shots

That unit is all about Randle and RJ....every body else find a corner and do the little sht, make sure those 2 get good shots, is that simple..

That's what Payton, Noel and Bullock did

I agree with you here on all fronts. Our SL is all ISO players except our C