Knicks · This years 2021-2022 Defense is off to a better start than last years 2020-2021 Defense (throughout first 38 games). (page 1)

2020-2021 Knicks after 38 games last year = 105.2 points allowed per game.

2021-2022 Knicks after 38 games this year = 105.4 points allowed per game.

Don't let that difference of 0.2 fool you.

Last year throughout 38 games?

☆ Only 10 opponents were held to under 100 points.

This year throughout 38 games?

☆ Already 14 opponents have been held to under 100 points.

And more importantly?

We're starting to peak earlier.

This year (below).

6 of our last 8 opponents this year (between games #31-#38) have been held to under 100 points (91, 124, 87, 88, 85, 95, 120 and 94) ala 98.0 poins allowed per game.

Vs. Lasr year (below).

Only 2 of our their last 8 opponents last year (between games #31-#38) were held to under 100 points (99, 114, 121, 107, 90, 119, 104 and 134) ala 111.0 points allowed per game.

As we can see. Our Defense this year (in regards to points allowed) is already playing much better than last years Defense (@ this point of the season).

Which is really encouraging moving forward. Because if last years Defense could pick it up towards the middle/end of the season and end the year as the NBAs #1 Defense? We know this one can too.

However. Imo. The only way I feel we can become top 5 again? Is if Evan Fournier continues to get fewer minutes while (both of) Grimes/Deuce begin to receive increased minutes (it's all up to coach Thibs).

In closing:

Despite finishing last year as the #1 Defense, we collapsed during the playoffs while allowing Atlanta to go off and score games of 92, 103, 105, 107 and 113 points ala 104.0 points per game and 4/5 games of all over 103+ points (and that is the negative impact that not having our Defensive anchor in Mitchell Robinson did to our Defense vs. Atlanta).

▪︎1.) Reduce Evan Fournier's minutes to no more than 20 minutes per game.

▪︎2.) Continue to give both Grimes and Deuce increased minutes.

▪︎3.) Get our energizer Nerlens Noel back into the rotation.

▪︎ 4.) Have Mitchell Robinson healthy (unlike last years round 1 vs. Atlanta).

And I truly believe that this NY Defense can not only become top 5 by seasons end but take it to another level come postseason play (under coach Thibs).

Are you really using points per game? That doesnt measure anything. Things like opponents EFG% or points per 100 possessions are meaningful. Playing at slow pace doesnt mean your defense is good.

Last year we finished 3rd in defensive pp100poss
This year we are 18th

fishmike wrote:Are you really using points per game? That doesnt measure anything. Things like opponents EFG% or points per 100 possessions are meaningful. Playing at slow pace doesnt mean your defense is good.

Last year we finished 3rd in defensive pp100poss
This year we are 18th

And last year after 38 games our pace was just as slow and we were ranked 19th in points per 100 possessions after 38 games.

So what is your point?

And at the end of the day PPG allowed is what matters the most and yes. 2021-2022's Defense is off to a BETTER START than last years D (after first 38 games).

If you thought the Knicks Defense was playing good throughout the first 38 games of last year @ 19-19 overall? You either didn't watch the games or just don't know basketball.

@FishMike please stop trying to pretend as if the Knicks Offensive pace wasn't dead last, last season and please stop acting as if our D was better throughout our 1st 38 games than it is this year (after 38 games).

And like I said.

▪︎1.) Reduce Evan Fournier's minutes to no more than 20 minutes per game.

▪︎2.) Continue to give both Grimes and Deuce increased minutes.

▪︎3.) Get our energizer Nerlens Noel back into the rotation.

▪︎ 4.) Have Mitchell Robinson healthy (unlike last years round 1 vs. Atlanta).

And this 2021-2022 coach Thibs Defense is going to become a force to be reckoned with.

Maybe it really is just as simple as replacing Fournier in the starting lineup and being much better defensively. I love Burks off the bench but given his chemistry with the starters, I guess it makes sense to start Burks at SG when Kemba comes back and letting Fournier roll with the second unit. With IQ, Toppin and a healthy Rose, he should fit well as the shooter and have some more freedom with that group being more uptempo.

Knixkik wrote:Maybe it really is just as simple as replacing Fournier in the starting lineup and being much better defensively. I love Burks off the bench but given his chemistry with the starters, I guess it makes sense to start Burks at SG when Kemba comes back and letting Fournier roll with the second unit. With IQ, Toppin and a healthy Rose, he should fit well as the shooter and have some more freedom with that group being more uptempo.

I really like Burks too much off the bench to make him a starting SG.

C: Mitchell Robinson.
PF: Julius Randle.
SF: R.J. Barrett.
SG: Quentin Grimes.
PG: Kemba Walker.

Outside of Kemba @ PG? That unit could really get after it on the Defensive end of the court and Grimes defensive electricity is unreal.

C: Nerlens Noel.
PF: Obi Toppin.
SF: Alec Burks.
SG: Immanuel Quickley.
PG: Derrick Rose.

With Deuce McBride as our X-Factor.

I'd love that bench (same as last years when healthy and at full strength).

(Have Evan Fournier as our 12th man; because he's absolutely useless).

NYKMentality wrote:

fishmike wrote:Are you really using points per game? That doesnt measure anything. Things like opponents EFG% or points per 100 possessions are meaningful. Playing at slow pace doesnt mean your defense is good.

Last year we finished 3rd in defensive pp100poss
This year we are 18th

And last year after 38 games our pace was just as slow and we were ranked 19th in points per 100 possessions after 38 games.

So what is your point?

And at the end of the day PPG allowed is what matters the most and yes. 2021-2022's Defense is off to a BETTER START than last years D (after first 38 games).

this is just so untrue and beyond explanation. Its like looking at a player's PPG and ignoring their FG%

fishmike wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

fishmike wrote:Are you really using points per game? That doesnt measure anything. Things like opponents EFG% or points per 100 possessions are meaningful. Playing at slow pace doesnt mean your defense is good.

Last year we finished 3rd in defensive pp100poss
This year we are 18th

And last year after 38 games our pace was just as slow and we were ranked 19th in points per 100 possessions after 38 games.

So what is your point?

And at the end of the day PPG allowed is what matters the most and yes. 2021-2022's Defense is off to a BETTER START than last years D (after first 38 games).

this is just so untrue and beyond explanation. Its like looking at a player's PPG and ignoring their FG%

But you know what is true?

Knicks Defense of 2021-2022 (after 38 games) is off to a better start this year than NYs Defense was last year of 2020-2021 (after 38 games).

And you do know that NY was 25-27 overall after 52 games @ two games below .500 last year, right?

I created this thread to show how 2021-2022's D is off to a better start than last years D (after 38 games) and you've yet to prove a valid point (in regards to 1st 38 games last year vs. this year).

You keep talking "last years Defense ala end of the season numbers" while completing ignoring last years Defensive numbers throughout its first 38 games.

NYKM I am with you man, I too think that Fournier should just be relocated to Grimes' jockstrap sniffer. However if we are going to use stats to prove a point then we should use the proper stats. Defensive rating being one. Otherwise you run the risk of becoming a Covid type statistic ( last year we counted deaths because people were dying, then the number of hospitalizations became the go to stat, and now with the handicapped Omicron version they only want to count #of ppl infected)

So yeah, using improper statistics can really undermine your credibility. Besides, this year is really unlike others because like in the game against the Pacers their backcourt was not NBA players. And same goes for so many games this year. I don't think it's really fair to compare last year to this

Both statistically and with the eye test, our defense has mostly been lackluster this year, and the cause has been that Fournier and Kemba have been a defensive downgrade from Payton and Bullock and Randle has been disinterested too often. You couple that will Mitch starting slowly and Noel being hurt and you see why we are lacking defensively. I do think things will get better and the team has looked better the last 5-6 games. Hopefully, we will turn a corner soon.

TheGame wrote:Both statistically and with the eye test, our defense has mostly been lackluster this year, and the cause has been that Fournier and Kemba have been a defensive downgrade from Payton and Bullock and Randle has been disinterested too often. You couple that will Mitch starting slowly and Noel being hurt and you see why we are lacking defensively. I do think things will get better and the team has looked better the last 5-6 games. Hopefully, we will turn a corner soon.

Yes. And not for nothing but the COVID protocol may be a blessing in disguise for some of the guys. I wish Fournier would sit for like a month to get his body and head right.

martin wrote:

TheGame wrote:Both statistically and with the eye test, our defense has mostly been lackluster this year, and the cause has been that Fournier and Kemba have been a defensive downgrade from Payton and Bullock and Randle has been disinterested too often. You couple that will Mitch starting slowly and Noel being hurt and you see why we are lacking defensively. I do think things will get better and the team has looked better the last 5-6 games. Hopefully, we will turn a corner soon.

Yes. And not for nothing but the COVID protocol may be a blessing in disguise for some of the guys. I wish Fournier would sit for like a month to get his body and head right.

Agreed. I think Randle sitting 2-3 games helped him. He looked much better in his return game. A few games off for Fournier may help him get healthy and get his mojo back.

TheGame wrote:

martin wrote:

TheGame wrote:Both statistically and with the eye test, our defense has mostly been lackluster this year, and the cause has been that Fournier and Kemba have been a defensive downgrade from Payton and Bullock and Randle has been disinterested too often. You couple that will Mitch starting slowly and Noel being hurt and you see why we are lacking defensively. I do think things will get better and the team has looked better the last 5-6 games. Hopefully, we will turn a corner soon.

Yes. And not for nothing but the COVID protocol may be a blessing in disguise for some of the guys. I wish Fournier would sit for like a month to get his body and head right.

Agreed. I think Randle sitting 2-3 games helped him. He looked much better in his return game. A few games off for Fournier may help him get healthy and get his mojo back.

Evan Fournier stinks. Especially on Defense. He stunk in Orlando and he stinks here. And his Defense has always been atrocious (and there is no fixing that).

I love coach Thibs but he rides Julius Randle like a work horse and tries his hardest to run him into the ground.

But Evan Fournier? He's just awful.

After missing out on Lonzo Ball and signing Evan Fournier? I almost had a meltdown because I've hated the addition since day 1.

TheGame wrote:

martin wrote:

TheGame wrote:Both statistically and with the eye test, our defense has mostly been lackluster this year, and the cause has been that Fournier and Kemba have been a defensive downgrade from Payton and Bullock and Randle has been disinterested too often. You couple that will Mitch starting slowly and Noel being hurt and you see why we are lacking defensively. I do think things will get better and the team has looked better the last 5-6 games. Hopefully, we will turn a corner soon.

Yes. And not for nothing but the COVID protocol may be a blessing in disguise for some of the guys. I wish Fournier would sit for like a month to get his body and head right.

Agreed. I think Randle sitting 2-3 games helped him. He looked much better in his return game. A few games off for Fournier may help him get healthy and get his mojo back.

He needs to learn that his role isn't the same as it was on his previous teams..

That's the part a lot of players struggle with, ROLE CHANGE, especially 1st and 2nd tier type veteran players.

NYKMentality wrote:

TheGame wrote:

martin wrote:

TheGame wrote:Both statistically and with the eye test, our defense has mostly been lackluster this year, and the cause has been that Fournier and Kemba have been a defensive downgrade from Payton and Bullock and Randle has been disinterested too often. You couple that will Mitch starting slowly and Noel being hurt and you see why we are lacking defensively. I do think things will get better and the team has looked better the last 5-6 games. Hopefully, we will turn a corner soon.

Yes. And not for nothing but the COVID protocol may be a blessing in disguise for some of the guys. I wish Fournier would sit for like a month to get his body and head right.

Agreed. I think Randle sitting 2-3 games helped him. He looked much better in his return game. A few games off for Fournier may help him get healthy and get his mojo back.

Evan Fournier stinks. Especially on Defense. He stunk in Orlando and he stinks here. And his Defense has always been atrocious (and there is no fixing that).

I love coach Thibs but he rides Julius Randle like a work horse and tries his hardest to run him into the ground.

But Evan Fournier? He's just awful.

After missing out on Lonzo Ball and signing Evan Fournier? I almost had a meltdown because I've hated the addition since day 1.

2019-2020 Randle: Julius stunk. Especially on Defense. He stunk on his previous teams and he stinks here. And his Defense has always been atrocious (and there is no fixing that).

For most of the season we've been a pretty bad/below average defensive team but the last few games have been an improvement. The biggest decline from last season has been defending the three. We were the very best at it this season and we're average/middle of the pack this season. It doesn't fall on one or two guys but the eye test tells me Randle and RJ have been the worst on the team at rotating to defend the three. Some plays both don't even try. That needs to change.

Held Boston to only 105 points tonight (despite allowing 63 1st half points).

More importantly? Held Boston to only 21 in the 3rd Q and only 21 in the 4th Q (only 42 2nd half points allowed).

Our Defense was not only swarming there in the 2nd half but also played with a crazy amount of energy/intensity.

▪︎ Evan Fournier was the cover story tonight with 41 points but NY doesn't come back from 25 points without playing it's Tom Thibs HEART out on D tonight.

Throughout our previous 9 games NYs D is ranked 2nd amongst the entire NBA in Defensive Rating.

If you feel, believe and/or think NYs Defense was playing this good after their 1st 39 games last year? You're kidding yourself.