While I have been a big supporter in playing Obi more and moving on from Randle asap - Obi just needs more minutes on the court and will need time to figure out what he is as an NBA player. He's more of a 3/4 to me - despite his defensive struggles. Somehow he runs around crazy and makes occasional plays, hits from outside every now and then - but hustles which makes the ball movement and pace better.
Offensively Obi reminds me more of a Shawn Marion type in that he has an odd spot up 3pt shot and relies on his instincts, hustle and athleticism mostly. I don't see the Amare comp anymore but maybe he will develop a few post moves and a face up j.
After last nights game - I shift more of the focus to Thibs (vs Randle) as Thibs stubbornness appears to be catching up with him.
When we compare starting lineup vs reserves - we have to remember that the reserves are playing against the Heat's reserves so starting them doesn't necessarily translate as well if the talent is less. Thibs says he's all about effort and hustle - so I think messing up the "perfect" bench and shifting a few would work better as Thibs doesn't seem to have the patience to let the young players play and take their lumps. IQ and Toppin playing more minutes with RJ and Randle would be where I would start (to evaluate).
jskinny35 wrote:
After last nights game - I shift more of the focus to Thibs (vs Randle) as Thibs stubbornness appears to be catching up with him.
I think we can put a lot of blame for the season on Thibs AND Randle. No need to separate them as they are joined at the hip.
misterearl wrote:“Their level of competitiveness and unselfishness is so much greater than the starters... I love the way this second unit is competing and sharing the ball. It’s not a one man issue with he staring lineup, it’s a FIVE man issue”
-Jeff Van GundyLet my people RUN!
So you know what is awesome for me: JVG and Thibs are very close friends. So this statement is telling for me in a whole bunch of ways
On Thibs stubborness
You hit on something that I think has been the main point of contention amongst the Thibs critics this season: He has the quality of a cello player on the deck of the Titanic, a stoic doctrinaire who refuses to pack up his bow before he gets through his specific and anal rendition of “Nearer, My God, To Thee” as all we Irish Knicks faithful sink into the abyss in the icy, gated off lower bowels of the ship.
Is he really going to play that line up until ship sinks and he dies?
It just hit me…. Is JVG angling his way back into the organization? How ironic would that be. And what role would he play? Assistant to Thibs, FO consultant, I don’t know. But he’s saying all the right things I want thibs to discuss with the FO. Since thibs has more insight on the players than the FO.
Mitch EF Randle RJ and Kemba is the worse lineup per 300 mins. Just heard them say we are -15 per 100 possessions. But only -2 in the 1st quarter and -20 something in the 3rd quarter. It’s like thibs gets out coached at half time every game. Is it the system thats so predictable and Thibs is too stubborn to change just like he doesn’t change the starting lineup. Points to thibs not adjusting during games based on game flow. Even when everything works, we have to assume the other team will start taking things away.
Just listening to xm radio and thanks to JVG they are starting to break down the issues with the starting 5.
They also started shuffling players and said Noel for Mitch the numbers jump to a +17. Or Burks instead of Kemba, the defense is still bad but the offense improves.
It’s like our defense was good last year so we fixed the offense. Well now both is bad. Offense still stinks and defense got worse. Yet elf and Bullock are bums? Seems like the FO making these moves are the real bums. And I’ve backed this FO from day one. And still believe in them. But facts are facts.
I’ll let the stat geeks back up those numbers. But the numbers only confirms what my eyes have seen. And we’ve been bad in the 3rd quarter b4 thibs got here. Never understood why
Luke Walton; courtesy phone.
fwk00 wrote:Luke Walton; courtesy phone.
The one who bombed out in SAC while juggling a sexual harassment suit?
martin wrote:fwk00 wrote:Luke Walton; courtesy phone.
The one who bombed out in SAC while juggling a sexual harassment suit?
Yeah, I'm not a fan.
Actually, I'm not sure there's a better option for a coaching replacement, unless someone comes out of retirement. But those guys are so out of touch with todays NBA. Thibs just needs a better roster. If our start 5 was good like our bench is now, nobody would complain. So FO needs to fix that starting 5. Thibs is a players coach, so players like him from what I'm seeing. Fans on the other hand, don't have the patience, including me. That's what happens when you see the same story, but different personnel. We continue to have these same discussions and expect something different. Insanity
So all these people on the knicks coaching staff are yes men
all of them think the style of play and rotation is working?
Head Coach Tom Thibodeau
Associate Head Coach Johnnie Bryant
Assistant Coaches Darren Erman, Andy Greer, Larry Greer, Kenny Payne
Strength & Conditioning Coach Richard Williams
Two-Way Liaison Aaron Brooks
Assistant to Head Coach Daisuke Yoshimoto
Assistant to General Manager Frederick Cofield
Advanced Scouts Larry Greer, Matt Harding
Basketball Scouts John Halas, Reggie Johnson, Alex Kline, TJ Zanin
Sambakick wrote:jrodmc wrote:This from the guy who gave us the Finals starting lineup of Charlie Football and Chris Dudley.
Do you remember that playoffs? Ewing was hurt in the ECF. They never had a chance in that series. Dudley started the first two games while Camby racked up 5 fouls each coming off the bench in a 24 minute split with Dudley. Then Camby started and fouled out of game 3 in 16 minutes of action. Charlie Ward and Chris Childs split time in a platoon as well. The criticism of JVG is dumb.
Ehem, hold my beer... The fact that JVG got that team to the finals with Choolie Ward and Chris Dudley starting speaks volumes of his coaching chops and, if anything, it absolutely gives his opinion weight.
The disappointing part is Thibs brings a lot to the table as a coach. His flaws/limits are he doesn't adjust much but that's really what's needed here - not a new coach. Maybe if Randle were traded he would have little choice but to be more creative/flexible with the younger roster?
knicks1248 wrote:martin wrote:I thought this was an interesting take
Randle supported the benching of Kemba.
This movie is playing out exactly how it did in MINNY, he benched young guys to play vets that were not winning. Players felt like Thibs was showing favorites to his Bulls players and the Locker room went to sht.
I have been one of Randles biggest supporters, but I think i have had it with him
That's not what really happened. Wiggins got his money, which pissed off Butler, who wanted his extension handled sooner rather than later. Butler, feeling disrespected, caused a riff in the locker room and forced his way off the team. Wiggins and Towns were getting a lot of minutes and Tyus Jones, who was in his second year got 18 minutes a game.
martin wrote:I thought this was an interesting take
Wish Fournier was a better player. Like that he speaks his mind. But the stats were pointing at Kemba as the weakest link in the SL on offense and defense. You can't really blame Thibs for that move. But you can blame Thibs for not holding Randle accountable. Maybe he can't 🤷
Sambakick wrote:jrodmc wrote:This from the guy who gave us the Finals starting lineup of Charlie Football and Chris Dudley.
Do you remember that playoffs? Ewing was hurt in the ECF. They never had a chance in that series. Dudley started the first two games while Camby racked up 5 fouls each coming off the bench in a 24 minute split with Dudley. Then Camby started and fouled out of game 3 in 16 minutes of action. Charlie Ward and Chris Childs split time in a platoon as well. The criticism of JVG is dumb.
No kidding Ewing was hurt. Do you remember who was on the team besides Camby? You had Krazy Eyes also sitting behind Dudley. Instead of telling me how Camby fouled out in one game, tell me why starting Dudley was such a great coaching move. Tell me why starting Chris Dudley against two HOF front court players was a good idea in the NBA Finals. You would have been better off playing Herb Williams. Tell me why starting Charlie Football and continuing to play Spree out of position was a great coaching move.
Your explanations are dumb, besides missing the point.
Right, we never had a chance. Spree had one of the best 3rd quarters in a Finals since MJ. We were a short Spree jumper away from forcing game 6.
ramtour420 wrote:Sambakick wrote:jrodmc wrote:This from the guy who gave us the Finals starting lineup of Charlie Football and Chris Dudley.
Do you remember that playoffs? Ewing was hurt in the ECF. They never had a chance in that series. Dudley started the first two games while Camby racked up 5 fouls each coming off the bench in a 24 minute split with Dudley. Then Camby started and fouled out of game 3 in 16 minutes of action. Charlie Ward and Chris Childs split time in a platoon as well. The criticism of JVG is dumb.
Ehem, hold my beer... The fact that JVG got that team to the finals with Choolie Ward and Chris Dudley starting speaks volumes of his coaching chops and, if anything, it absolutely gives his opinion weight.
Yes, of course that's it. It's the fact that Choolie Wad and Shaq's girlfriend got us to the Finals. How could I forget that. Excuse me, I have to go pee in my Honda.
BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:I thought this was an interesting take
Wish Fournier was a better player. Like that he speaks his mind. But the stats were pointing at Kemba as the weakest link in the SL on offense and defense. You can't really blame Thibs for that move. But you can blame Thibs for not holding Randle accountable. Maybe he can't 🤷
I think Thibs can hold him accountable but there is something goin on that has his psyche fragile....maybe a personal issue...etc...in any case if you bench Randle whatever trade value that existed is flushed down the toilet.
jskinny35 wrote:The disappointing part is Thibs brings a lot to the table as a coach. His flaws/limits are he doesn't adjust much but that's really what's needed here - not a new coach. Maybe if Randle were traded he would have little choice but to be more creative/flexible with the younger roster?
What is it that Thibs "brings to the table". The proof is in the pudding and the pudding these days is a steaming linked sausage.
fwk00 wrote:jskinny35 wrote:The disappointing part is Thibs brings a lot to the table as a coach. His flaws/limits are he doesn't adjust much but that's really what's needed here - not a new coach. Maybe if Randle were traded he would have little choice but to be more creative/flexible with the younger roster?
What is it that Thibs "brings to the table". The proof is in the pudding and the pudding these days is a steaming linked sausage.
Thibs is a very average coach. Without Derrick Rose he has a 229-207 record. Rose is in the last stage of his career. Thibs has to show he isn’t a middle of the pack coach. It’s time for him to start making changes and find his next Derrick Rose and start developing McBride. Rose ain’t gonna be around to save the day for him.
jrodmc wrote:Sambakick wrote:jrodmc wrote:This from the guy who gave us the Finals starting lineup of Charlie Football and Chris Dudley.
Do you remember that playoffs? Ewing was hurt in the ECF. They never had a chance in that series. Dudley started the first two games while Camby racked up 5 fouls each coming off the bench in a 24 minute split with Dudley. Then Camby started and fouled out of game 3 in 16 minutes of action. Charlie Ward and Chris Childs split time in a platoon as well. The criticism of JVG is dumb.
No kidding Ewing was hurt. Do you remember who was on the team besides Camby? You had Krazy Eyes also sitting behind Dudley. Instead of telling me how Camby fouled out in one game, tell me why starting Dudley was such a great coaching move. Tell me why starting Chris Dudley against two HOF front court players was a good idea in the NBA Finals. You would have been better off playing Herb Williams. Tell me why starting Charlie Football and continuing to play Spree out of position was a great coaching move. Your explanations are dumb, besides missing the point.
Right, we never had a chance. Spree had one of the best 3rd quarters in a Finals since MJ. We were a short Spree jumper away from forcing game 6.
Even had we gotten to game 6 we would never have had a chance to win that series. Dudley was 6'11 to go against the twin towers of SAS. KT was 6'9. Do you think starting KT would've made a difference in the outcome? Because it would not have.
blkexec wrote:It just hit me…. Is JVG angling his way back into the organization? How ironic would that be. And what role would he play? Assistant to Thibs, FO consultant, I don’t know. But he’s saying all the right things I want thibs to discuss with the FO. Since thibs has more insight on the players than the FO.
Jeff and his brother Stan have been trolling Dolan for years. He doesn’t want back in the building that bridge was burned years ago
