Knicks · I'm convince that this FO has zero negotiation skills (page 1)

It's a shame because for the last 3 seasons we have accumulated more cap space and picks then we have ever had as a franchise, and we are not even a top 20 team, we have done nothing special with our.

Cap space
Draft picks-
Future draft picks
Current roster

And you won't hear a peep from the FO for the for-see-able future.

Perry and Mills Botched the Melo and KP trades.....Th NY post (not berman) posted those as 2 of the worst trades in franchise history.

Another trade deal line about to pass with a bunch of rumors and nothing to show , then we hear the player the knicks were pursuing is off to another team, on still on the same team

good post! super informative... oh that Melo trade

knicks1248 wrote:It's a shame because for the last 3 seasons we have accumulated more cap space and picks then we have ever had as a franchise, and we are not even a top 20 team, we have done nothing special with our.

Cap space
Draft picks-
Future draft picks
Current roster

And you won't hear a peep from the FO for the for-see-able future.

Perry and Mills Botched the Melo and KP trades.....Th NY post (not berman) posted those as 2 of the worst trades in franchise history.

Another trade deal line about to pass with a bunch of rumors and nothing to show , then we hear the player the knicks were pursuing is off to another team, on still on the same team

...how'd we get those picks?

MaTT4281 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:It's a shame because for the last 3 seasons we have accumulated more cap space and picks then we have ever had as a franchise, and we are not even a top 20 team, we have done nothing special with our.

Cap space
Draft picks-
Future draft picks
Current roster

And you won't hear a peep from the FO for the for-see-able future.

Perry and Mills Botched the Melo and KP trades.....Th NY post (not berman) posted those as 2 of the worst trades in franchise history.

Another trade deal line about to pass with a bunch of rumors and nothing to show , then we hear the player the knicks were pursuing is off to another team, on still on the same team

...how'd we get those picks?

stork!

MaTT4281 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:It's a shame because for the last 3 seasons we have accumulated more cap space and picks then we have ever had as a franchise, and we are not even a top 20 team, we have done nothing special with our.

Cap space
Draft picks-
Future draft picks
Current roster

And you won't hear a peep from the FO for the for-see-able future.

Perry and Mills Botched the Melo and KP trades.....Th NY post (not berman) posted those as 2 of the worst trades in franchise history.

Another trade deal line about to pass with a bunch of rumors and nothing to show , then we hear the player the knicks were pursuing is off to another team, on still on the same team

...how'd we get those picks?

one pick we got IQ, a player with a LOW IQ..

Dude we don't even draft well, so what difference does it make when the end result is 24-31 record, and probably go 6-21 the rest of the way.

No cap space this summer, and bunch of players no wants..

knicks1248 wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:It's a shame because for the last 3 seasons we have accumulated more cap space and picks then we have ever had as a franchise, and we are not even a top 20 team, we have done nothing special with our.

Cap space
Draft picks-
Future draft picks
Current roster

And you won't hear a peep from the FO for the for-see-able future.

Perry and Mills Botched the Melo and KP trades.....Th NY post (not berman) posted those as 2 of the worst trades in franchise history.

Another trade deal line about to pass with a bunch of rumors and nothing to show , then we hear the player the knicks were pursuing is off to another team, on still on the same team

...how'd we get those picks?

one pick we got IQ, a player with a LOW IQ..

Dude we don't even draft well, so what difference does it make when the end result is 24-31 record, and probably go 6-21 the rest of the way.

No cap space this summer, and bunch of players no wants..

1248 we detect a rut

prescription - meet up with nalod for a weekend in vegas, run around, get rejuvenated

knicks1248 wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:It's a shame because for the last 3 seasons we have accumulated more cap space and picks then we have ever had as a franchise, and we are not even a top 20 team, we have done nothing special with our.

Cap space
Draft picks-
Future draft picks
Current roster

And you won't hear a peep from the FO for the for-see-able future.

Perry and Mills Botched the Melo and KP trades.....Th NY post (not berman) posted those as 2 of the worst trades in franchise history.

Another trade deal line about to pass with a bunch of rumors and nothing to show , then we hear the player the knicks were pursuing is off to another team, on still on the same team

...how'd we get those picks?

one pick we got IQ, a player with a LOW IQ..

Dude we don't even draft well, so what difference does it make when the end result is 24-31 record, and probably go 6-21 the rest of the way.

No cap space this summer, and bunch of players no wants..

so again, what do you want done then -- they dont draft well, they cant get fa, they make bad trades. nothing will ever work so fold em up.

sidsanders wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:It's a shame because for the last 3 seasons we have accumulated more cap space and picks then we have ever had as a franchise, and we are not even a top 20 team, we have done nothing special with our.

Cap space
Draft picks-
Future draft picks
Current roster

And you won't hear a peep from the FO for the for-see-able future.

Perry and Mills Botched the Melo and KP trades.....Th NY post (not berman) posted those as 2 of the worst trades in franchise history.

Another trade deal line about to pass with a bunch of rumors and nothing to show , then we hear the player the knicks were pursuing is off to another team, on still on the same team

...how'd we get those picks?

one pick we got IQ, a player with a LOW IQ..

Dude we don't even draft well, so what difference does it make when the end result is 24-31 record, and probably go 6-21 the rest of the way.

No cap space this summer, and bunch of players no wants..

so again, what do you want done then -- they dont draft well, they cant get fa, they make bad trades. nothing will ever work so fold em up.

If you run out of gas in your car do you ask yourself what am i suppose to do now?

You already know whats going to happen, the same thing that happens to every failing coach and FO...They surely don't get bonuses and extensions.

I want us to win so we don't have to keep firing people over and over again

Another take could be the FO has a grand plan (that we're not privy to) and they set firm limits for what they will trade. When I think back to all the Isiah and Layden years - too many times did we overpay and misjudge talent, fit and importance of retaining roster/salary flexibility. I suspect they have several options and understand that there are variables out of their control (eg other team agreeing). Rarely do I think you regret not making a deal because you still retain existing options.

jskinny35 wrote:Another take could be the FO has a grand plan (that we're not privy to) and they set firm limits for what they will trade. When I think back to all the Isiah and Layden years - too many times did we overpay and misjudge talent, fit and importance of retaining roster/salary flexibility. I suspect they have several options and understand that there are variables out of their control (eg other team agreeing). Rarely do I think you regret not making a deal because you still retain existing options.

Well said

How exactly are we going to improve? We are capped out, have the usual lousy 10th pick (which we will likely draft another bust) and it's not like the vets are going to increase their value. We're trapped. Again.

knicks1248 wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:It's a shame because for the last 3 seasons we have accumulated more cap space and picks then we have ever had as a franchise, and we are not even a top 20 team, we have done nothing special with our.

Cap space
Draft picks-
Future draft picks
Current roster

And you won't hear a peep from the FO for the for-see-able future.

Perry and Mills Botched the Melo and KP trades.....Th NY post (not berman) posted those as 2 of the worst trades in franchise history.

Another trade deal line about to pass with a bunch of rumors and nothing to show , then we hear the player the knicks were pursuing is off to another team, on still on the same team

...how'd we get those picks?

one pick we got IQ, a player with a LOW IQ..

Dude we don't even draft well, so what difference does it make when the end result is 24-31 record, and probably go 6-21 the rest of the way.

No cap space this summer, and bunch of players no wants..

so again, what do you want done then -- they dont draft well, they cant get fa, they make bad trades. nothing will ever work so fold em up.

If you run out of gas in your car do you ask yourself what am i suppose to do now?

You already know whats going to happen, the same thing that happens to every failing coach and FO...They surely don't get bonuses and extensions.

I want us to win so we don't have to keep firing people over and over again

that comparison isnt close to the same as what a sports team is doing building its roster. a vehicle you can look at a gauge and see its close to empty, maybe the change oil % is getting low, check engine lit up. building a roster of individuals and trying to make it all work requires the players, coaches, FO to do as best they can to make it all work. there is no single gauge to say that what you have done is going to fail right away, in a year or later. last season you were glad with the results. so based on that could they have known for sure things would shake out poorly? if you think that is so, why were you ok with last season cuz they should have known this was doomed? why do you even torture yourself unless you are just trolling.

SergioNYK wrote:How exactly are we going to improve? We are capped out, have the usual lousy 10th pick (which we will likely draft another bust) and it's not like the vets are going to increase their value. We're trapped. Again.

We can win the lottery and grab Ivey

BRIGGS wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:How exactly are we going to improve? We are capped out, have the usual lousy 10th pick (which we will likely draft another bust) and it's not like the vets are going to increase their value. We're trapped. Again.

We can win the lottery and grab Ivey

Impossible. Stop it.

knicks1248 wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:It's a shame because for the last 3 seasons we have accumulated more cap space and picks then we have ever had as a franchise, and we are not even a top 20 team, we have done nothing special with our.

Cap space
Draft picks-
Future draft picks
Current roster

And you won't hear a peep from the FO for the for-see-able future.

Perry and Mills Botched the Melo and KP trades.....Th NY post (not berman) posted those as 2 of the worst trades in franchise history.

Another trade deal line about to pass with a bunch of rumors and nothing to show , then we hear the player the knicks were pursuing is off to another team, on still on the same team

...how'd we get those picks?

one pick we got IQ, a player with a LOW IQ..

Dude we don't even draft well, so what difference does it make when the end result is 24-31 record, and probably go 6-21 the rest of the way.

No cap space this summer, and bunch of players no wants..

so again, what do you want done then -- they dont draft well, they cant get fa, they make bad trades. nothing will ever work so fold em up.

If you run out of gas in your car do you ask yourself what am i suppose to do now?

You already know whats going to happen, the same thing that happens to every failing coach and FO...They surely don't get bonuses and extensions.

I want us to win so we don't have to keep firing people over and over again

What do you? You open the trunk, walk back to the last exit all the while thinking about all the gas stations you passed. Keep telling your self you should have stopped at this one, or that one. Reminded of why you didn't like them. "Gas prices too high"? "Looks dirty"? "I'll stop at the next one"............You know all the answers of course as you walk back further and further.
Funny thing is if you looked ahead, there was one half a mile down hill from where you started. But since you can't fathom to look ahead you look in the rear view mirror.

You get to the station, your in New Jersey and the man asks you "Unleaded or Regular gas?". Then you wake up from your dream and realize you don't even own a car. You just have all the answers for everyone that that does and runs out of gas.

SergioNYK wrote:How exactly are we going to improve? We are capped out, have the usual lousy 10th pick (which we will likely draft another bust) and it's not like the vets are going to increase their value. We're trapped. Again.

As frustrating and impatient as many of us feel - think we need to see what happens this offseason before opening night next year. Randle may still be traded, some of our veteran players can still be packaged and moved if needed for a Brunson deal. We have lots of 2nd rounders, a few young players that may not be vital/essential. I think the FO will head into free agency looking to acquire Brunson - which suggests they may have to increase/attach desirables to unload Burks, Kemba, Fournier, Noel, etc... I also think it's possible they may package a pick and move Randle in a bigger package. Point is we have lots of draft options and most player contracts are reasonable in salary and/or years. The sky has fallen when you run out of counter moves and are more stuck (eg Lakers right now) without sacrificing much of your future to dig out of the ditch.

jskinny35 wrote:Another take could be the FO has a grand plan (that we're not privy to) and they set firm limits for what they will trade. When I think back to all the Isiah and Layden years - too many times did we overpay and misjudge talent, fit and importance of retaining roster/salary flexibility. I suspect they have several options and understand that there are variables out of their control (eg other team agreeing). Rarely do I think you regret not making a deal because you still retain existing options.

I know your trying to be as optimistic as possible, but there is nothing that has been done to think their some grand plan for the off season.

I have seen enough coaches and presidents get fired to know how this is going to end.

So if these guys want to sit on their hands and think THIBS will change his approach, or Kemba will get bionic knees inserted, then they will surely be unemployed sooner than later.

The knicks will not over pay for brunson, thats already a proven fact

knicks1248 wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Another take could be the FO has a grand plan (that we're not privy to) and they set firm limits for what they will trade. When I think back to all the Isiah and Layden years - too many times did we overpay and misjudge talent, fit and importance of retaining roster/salary flexibility. I suspect they have several options and understand that there are variables out of their control (eg other team agreeing). Rarely do I think you regret not making a deal because you still retain existing options.

I know your trying to be as optimistic as possible, but there is nothing that has been done to think their some grand plan for the off season.

I have seen enough coaches and presidents get fired to know how this is going to end.

So if these guys want to sit on their hands and think THIBS will change his approach, or Kemba will get bionic knees inserted, then they will surely be unemployed sooner than later.

The knicks will not over pay for brunson, thats already a proven fact

I agree with you. The plan is flawed the Knicks make so many attempts to hit free agent targets and never hit. So right there the team is reeling right off the bat as plan A never comes into fruition. The team has no desire to develop players the way picks are suppose to we have the wrong coach for youth development. Someone will point out RJ is being developed I have to say they better he is a third overall pick. This team cannot fathom a player ever developing outside of top 4 pick. I look at Mitch and say this guy would be so further along in his development had he been given some role with the offense on another team he would have developed a back to the basket game and some mid range game. The Knicks are so content with put backs and ally’s.

Anyways this organization is trying to “accidentally win a chip” because they fail with their initial targets again and again. It’s always plan C never A.

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:It's a shame because for the last 3 seasons we have accumulated more cap space and picks then we have ever had as a franchise, and we are not even a top 20 team, we have done nothing special with our.

Cap space
Draft picks-
Future draft picks
Current roster

And you won't hear a peep from the FO for the for-see-able future.

Perry and Mills Botched the Melo and KP trades.....Th NY post (not berman) posted those as 2 of the worst trades in franchise history.

Another trade deal line about to pass with a bunch of rumors and nothing to show , then we hear the player the knicks were pursuing is off to another team, on still on the same team

...how'd we get those picks?

one pick we got IQ, a player with a LOW IQ..

Dude we don't even draft well, so what difference does it make when the end result is 24-31 record, and probably go 6-21 the rest of the way.

No cap space this summer, and bunch of players no wants..

so again, what do you want done then -- they dont draft well, they cant get fa, they make bad trades. nothing will ever work so fold em up.

If you run out of gas in your car do you ask yourself what am i suppose to do now?

You already know whats going to happen, the same thing that happens to every failing coach and FO...They surely don't get bonuses and extensions.

I want us to win so we don't have to keep firing people over and over again

What do you? You open the trunk, walk back to the last exit all the while thinking about all the gas stations you passed. Keep telling your self you should have stopped at this one, or that one. Reminded of why you didn't like them. "Gas prices too high"? "Looks dirty"? "I'll stop at the next one"............You know all the answers of course as you walk back further and further.
Funny thing is if you looked ahead, there was one half a mile down hill from where you started. But since you can't fathom to look ahead you look in the rear view mirror.

You get to the station, your in New Jersey and the man asks you "Unleaded or Regular gas?". Then you wake up from your dream and realize you don't even own a car. You just have all the answers for everyone that that does and runs out of gas.

The only thing Knicks1248 has is gas.

He wants everyone traded but never talks about what we would get in return. Or any feasible solution.

Fans like him only throw hissy fits. Do not understand why they watch professional sports.

Why is anyone disagreeing here? Kemba, Fournier, Walker, Noel, Burks aren't the foundation of a winning team this year or next. All of them are taking minutes from Quickly, Grimes, Reddish, Toppin, McBride, Simms. Knicks management needed to help Thibs clear spots in the rotation.