Clean wrote:martin wrote:Clean wrote:martin wrote:Clean wrote:martin wrote:Clean wrote:sidsanders wrote:BRIGGS wrote:I’d like to keep a coach for 4-5 years. We need some continuity. This year is a bust( most likely) and we can clearly see we missed a solid pg badly.
this should be the case if things are building in a decent direction (whatever that is defined as, dunno). they should not keep guys around just so they can say they havent fired someone recently. if they are doing a bad job and not meeting goals, you gotta change out those people. continuity for the sake of it -- what does that accomplish?
If the Raps don't fire the COY for Nurse I don't think they win a championship.
Back that truck up.
If they don't trade for Kawhi and he doesn't hit a miracle turn around deep 2 point shot at the buzzer against Philly they may not even make it past the second round.
Since Kawhi has left, Nurse has been worse than COY Casey year over year.
Rosters matter.
You might be mixing up the team has been worse vs Nurse has been worse. They went all in for that ring. Which means they would pay for it on the backend. It does not mean Nurse has been worse. Ask Rap fans if they would rather the COY or Nurse now. Don’t we have a former Knicks fan that converted into a Rapter fan who frequents this forum. Maybe he can answer which coach he would rather have.
Pretty sure Kawhi was key here, not the coach.
Never said Kawhi was not a key. You are severely underappreciating the value of good coaching. Kawhi takes care of the talent side of things. The coaching is there to put him in the right position to succeed and to make adjustment needed during a 7 game series. Thibs can't even make adjustments over a regular season. If Thibs was the coach of the raps it might have been a Randle turn around 3 situation. Then that miracle shot might never even have a chance of happening.
You might need to scan this thread on this exact topic.
https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/...
They have the same issue with Casey as we have with Thibs. They both have an inability to adjust.
Pretty sure I haven't made any comment on Nurse as a coach.
In the same vein, I am pretty sure you are underappreciating the value of having a superstar on the team.
YOU associated Nurse and the championship.
I think Kawhi was key.
Your Quote "Since Kawhi has left, Nurse has been worse than COY Casey year over year."
That sure seems like a comment on Nurse as a coach. Raptors fans disagree with that comment.
Also how could I be underestimating the value of a superstar when the very next sentence after what you bolded said "Kawhi takes care of the talent side of things. The coaching is there to put him in the right position to succeed and to make adjustment needed during a 7 game series. "
That pretty much gave a lot of credit to their superstar at the time and the coach for putting that superstar in the right situations to succeed. You know like not with the ball behind the 3pt line with your back to the basket.
So it just the coach making adjustments or is it also the roster talent? I think we can agree on both?
Why hasn't Pop made an adjustment in years? Or is it that the roster just sucks?
Last year Thibs made adjustments with RJ and Randle but not so much this year? Is he holding out on us?
Maybe your larger point is even if Raps had Casey WITH Kawhi it wouldn't have mattered?
You want to replace Thibs with who? I did like Mike Miller but he’s an assistant with OKC now and not a Rose guy. Most likely we’d replace Thibs with some CAA Veteran first time coach and who knows what we’re getting
Thibs has had an awful season (lots of factors out of his control but still) but I'm giving him until the end of next season at the very least. I still think he's a great coach and part of the solution.
Is it safe to pop my head back in here or we still defending Thibs?
Clean wrote:Is it safe to pop my head back in here or we still defending Thibs?
No after tonight I’d probably be ok with Thibs getting fired after we fail to not even crack 30 wins
The guy is just waaaayyyy too stubborn. Demotes Grimes to G-league same day we have the worst loss of the season
Tbh I thought our success last year wasn’t all on Thibs. We had a developing young roster that had played better towards the end of the previous season once that idiot Fizdale was gone. All Thibs had to do was be competent
It's time to clean house. Leon and everyone associated with his garbage front office need to go.
y2zipper wrote:It's time to clean house. Leon and everyone associated with his garbage front office need to go.
I honestly wouldn't get rod of Leon yet. Draft wise his strategy works, trade wise he hasn't been horrible (the Reddish trade was a +, his draft trades are good too), it's his free agency that sucks. And I think that him and Thibs aren't on the same page.
Signing Derozan would have been nice (the most popular coulda, woulda, shoulda,) but giving him the bag means-at the time-no Julius extension(whatever your opinion on that is...), no swings at a PG.
I think Leon's worst quality is he isn't safeguarding his risks. Plan A was Kemba and Rose being able to support the PG position between them. Plan B was a guy who can dribble up the floor and make a first pass. Plan C is there is no plan C.
Unless Plan B was go with a young unproven guy (like Quickley), he should have signed a 3rd PG along the lines of (I'm talking type not the actual player) of a Jarret Jack type PG for Plan B and just assign Deuce to the G league.
Need to pick a path and commit.
With the loss of woodson last season can the knick pry away Kenny Atkinson from the warriors? Can JVG take the head coaching job?
Jimbo5 wrote:With the loss of woodson last season can the knick pry away Kenny Atkinson from the warriors? Can JVG take the head coaching job?
If JVG were a hobbit he’d be Gollum. Please no. It’s not like the team goes into halftime and the coach says, ‘stop doing everything that worked in the first half’. When the game is on the line you know Randle is going to brick every shot and make horrible pg decisions and passes. Even if we had a PG Randle wouldn’t let him PG
I notice I am no longer the only one who voted yes. I told you guys. This was easy to see coming. Once thibs became a negative to both the future and the present there is no reason to keep him. You have to give people hope for something. The developing of the youth or by winning games. He is too damn stubborn for his own good and it costs him his job everywhere he goes.
He’s been miserable most of the season. Running guys into the ground, jerking Obi around, not using rotations properly, blowing leads and throwing games away in the 4th, it hasn’t looked good.
Has clearly lost the team. No one seems happy out there. It’s time for a change in lineups or it’s time for a change in coach.
Time for thibs to go! He's too old school and cant relate to today's NBA players. You cant win with specifically defensive principles. Knicks team got talent but we are almost last in ppg team scoring. Knicks drafted 4 players last draft with one of them playing overseas and the only one getting playing time is Grimes??? Simms and Mcbride should be getting enough runs on the court along with Toppin and Reddish.. We traded a 1st rd pick for Cam Reddish just for him to get limited minutes.. There is a huge disconncetion between the front office and coach.
We need a coach that knows how to develop our young talent and a bit of an offensive guru. The league is like the NFL. lots of scoring and west coast offense. Enough with the half court boring sets and having Burks run point. We are not going nowhere!! Get a new coach in here..
I think there are several steps the FO can take before they fire him.
How about a conversation - look, Tom, no one’s fault, but ESPN is giving us 1% of making the play offs. Let’s focus on the 99% and try to give our young guys some more time in games.
If he doesn’t start playing the younger players, then you fire him.
But, can I change my vote because I think the heat got turned up a notch for sure!
joec32033 wrote:y2zipper wrote:It's time to clean house. Leon and everyone associated with his garbage front office need to go.
I honestly wouldn't get rod of Leon yet. Draft wise his strategy works, trade wise he hasn't been horrible (the Reddish trade was a +, his draft trades are good too), it's his free agency that sucks. And I think that him and Thibs aren't on the same page.
Signing Derozan would have been nice (the most popular coulda, woulda, shoulda,) but giving him the bag means-at the time-no Julius extension(whatever your opinion on that is...), no swings at a PG.
I think Leon's worst quality is he isn't safeguarding his risks. Plan A was Kemba and Rose being able to support the PG position between them. Plan B was a guy who can dribble up the floor and make a first pass. Plan C is there is no plan C.
Unless Plan B was go with a young unproven guy (like Quickley), he should have signed a 3rd PG along the lines of (I'm talking type not the actual player) of a Jarret Jack type PG for Plan B and just assign Deuce to the G league.
Need to pick a path and commit.
Well I was anti-Randle extension after the postseason and anti Fournier and I didn't even think Kemba was going to work out all that well, somebody take on it is that this is basically an Isaiah Thomas level poor usage of cap space. The president's number one job is to have an accurate and realistic assessment of where the team is, and Leon made the choice to retool and double down on something that we all know overachieved when he didn't really have to do that. Everyone should have been back on one year deals.
I did like the draft day maneuvering. I do like Grimes, but winning in the NBA is about bringing in higher end talent in the Knicks don't have it right now.
Losing like that to the Nits... dayum. Fire Thibs, fire the FO, deport the owner to the Ukraine.
I'll still stick with the Alba post vote.
This is 2014 all over again. We went from a 54 win season in 2013 to a 37 win season in 2014. We fired Woody and hired Fisher, Hornecek, Fizdale and made things 100x worse. Woody shouldn't have been fired. After giving us our best season the last 20 years, he deserved at least a chance to redeem himself. Same with Thibs imo. We can't keep firing coaches every other year. We need some continuity. And it will reflect poorly on this franchise if we fired a HC after he won COTY the season before.
Get Thibs a PG and players who fit HIS system and style and he'll win. He's proven it.
SergioNYK wrote:This is 2014 all over again. We went from a 54 win season in 2013 to a 37 win season in 2014. We fired Woody and hired Fisher, Hornecek, Fizdale and made things 100x worse. Woody shouldn't have been fired. After giving us our best season the last 20 years, he deserved at least a chance to redeem himself. Same with Thibs imo. We can't keep firing coaches every other year. We need some continuity. And it will reflect poorly on this franchise if we fired a HC after he won COTY the season before.Get Thibs a PG and players who fit HIS system and style and he'll win. He's proven it.
I totally agree with you in general. It is why before this week I was against firing Thibs. I just wanted him to change a few ways how he handles things. You can check the previous Thibs threads for proof. The problem now has become so bad and Thibs has refused to adjust in anyway at all. These red flags have been happening when we were 5 - 1 and he did nothing to stop any of them. The same thing we failed to do then vs bad teams we are failing now against good teams and even G-League teams. Just ignoring the issues because of our record is very shortsighted.
During the Lakers game frank was miced up and he said something along the lines 'we know they are going to collapse the paint so look for the open shooter'. I been saying this from forever the weakside guy ALWAYS touches the paint when he can't help defend anyway because he is the WEAKSIDE guy. All this ever does is allow for an open corner 3 every time. Look the Giddy's highlights against us half his passes was to the weakside corner 3 because of this simple dumb part of Thibs defense. The starting lineup is the worst defending lineup in NBA histroy while we still had a winning record. He ignored it and is still using it to this very day. He does not adjust AT ALL. I also want to stop firing coaches but you can't settle on a bad fit because you are still doing yourself no favors. I could maybe stomach Thibs if he were playing our youth but he is not even doing that while we are one of the worst teams in the NBA. I am sorry but he has to go.
Took a pic from the Giddy highlight. Why is Kemba darn near under the basket? He is not even playing the cross court passing lane because he is far too deep. This has been us ALL year. It is why the worst shooting teams always shoot well vs us and why we always give up career highs. This is also not a Kemba issue. Every player who play on the weakside has done this all year.
SergioNYK wrote:This is 2014 all over again. We went from a 54 win season in 2013 to a 37 win season in 2014. We fired Woody and hired Fisher, Hornecek, Fizdale and made things 100x worse. Woody shouldn't have been fired. After giving us our best season the last 20 years, he deserved at least a chance to redeem himself. Same with Thibs imo. We can't keep firing coaches every other year. We need some continuity. And it will reflect poorly on this franchise if we fired a HC after he won COTY the season before.Get Thibs a PG and players who fit HIS system and style and he'll win. He's proven it.
mikey part 2 lost me when he allowed the awful chris smith mess to play out. i realize he wanted his job so had to play along with that poop. still would have liked him to not even tolerate that. hawks bailed on the guy after they won 53.
if they hired the wrong guy, why stick to it over fear of pr issues? if the folks making the bad hires dont get dealt with, thats worse, see bullets/wizards with ernie. continuity and fear of looking bad should not prevent you from cutting losses with folks.
havent the knicks been burned enough with guys running a system and not changing to fit what players they actually have, or how somethings have changed?
