Knicks · On resigning Mitch (page 4)

ramtour420 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I was way off on the situation with Mitch. He will want Capella money. Looks like we are going to lose him for nothing if he is UFA. I doubt we match the roughly 18 mil contract he is going to get. Worst case scenario....damn it

I can't see Mitch getting 18 million a year.

he didn't want to extend with us at 4 years 48 mil, that's like 12 mil per. 12 and 15 is not really that big of a difference to justify risking an injury while finishing off the end of the contract. So I am thinking he wants more than 15. That logic may be flawed. I completely came up with the 18 mil number

There are a ton of things to consider, both from Knicks and Mitch's standpoint.

4 vs 5 years. Player/Team option years. Like that.

Jmpasq wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I was way off on the situation with Mitch. He will want Capella money. Looks like we are going to lose him for nothing if he is UFA. I doubt we match the roughly 18 mil contract he is going to get. Worst case scenario....damn it

I can't see Mitch getting 18 million a year.

Worse players have gotten as good or better money

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Knicks should pay the man his money.

Yes.

Especially if you want to build around RJ. Great chemistry between the two.

We actually have two good young players and now watch them both leave for nothing

Explanations have bee given to you on how this works. You type many things but say nothing but parrot empty statements often.

You’re implying the explanations make sense. They don’t.

You don’t lose good young players for nothing while signing overpriced veterans like Fournier to big money and extending Randle a year early

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Knicks should pay the man his money.

Yes.

Especially if you want to build around RJ. Great chemistry between the two.

We actually have two good young players and now watch them both leave for nothing

Explanations have bee given to you on how this works. You type many things but say nothing but parrot empty statements often.

You’re implying the explanations make sense. They don’t.

You don’t lose good young players for nothing while signing overpriced veterans like Fournier to big money and extending Randle a year early

Your ignorance of the situation is the only thing that makes sense quite frankly.

This is low level stuff man

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I was way off on the situation with Mitch. He will want Capella money. Looks like we are going to lose him for nothing if he is UFA. I doubt we match the roughly 18 mil contract he is going to get. Worst case scenario....damn it

I can't see Mitch getting 18 million a year.

Worse players have gotten as good or better money

But how many centers have been signed on Mitch's level for $18M per? The market is always changing, sure, but $18M would be an outlier. Of course, it's always tough to predict another teams level of desperation. But I would be surprised if Mitch got $15M. Christian Wood, who is more talented but also had some character concerns, is making $13-$14M per.

ramtour420 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I was way off on the situation with Mitch. He will want Capella money. Looks like we are going to lose him for nothing if he is UFA. I doubt we match the roughly 18 mil contract he is going to get. Worst case scenario....damn it

I can't see Mitch getting 18 million a year.

he didn't want to extend with us at 4 years 48 mil, that's like 12 mil per. 12 and 15 is not really that big of a difference to justify risking an injury while finishing off the end of the contract. So I am thinking he wants more than 15. That logic may be flawed. I completely came up with the 18 mil number

$3,000,000 x 4 is Twelve million. His agent gets a piece of that too! 3% of 12mil? $360,000 MORE.............
What we don't know is what Knicks offered and how many years.

Nalod wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I was way off on the situation with Mitch. He will want Capella money. Looks like we are going to lose him for nothing if he is UFA. I doubt we match the roughly 18 mil contract he is going to get. Worst case scenario....damn it

I can't see Mitch getting 18 million a year.

he didn't want to extend with us at 4 years 48 mil, that's like 12 mil per. 12 and 15 is not really that big of a difference to justify risking an injury while finishing off the end of the contract. So I am thinking he wants more than 15. That logic may be flawed. I completely came up with the 18 mil number

$3,000,000 x 4 is Twelve million. His agent gets a piece of that too! 3% of 12mil? $360,000 MORE.............
What we don't know is what Knicks offered and how many years.

Right, and if you wait to sign after this year maybe it's a 5 x $15M extension and that's now $27M less, but what's $3m per year between friends?

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I was way off on the situation with Mitch. He will want Capella money. Looks like we are going to lose him for nothing if he is UFA. I doubt we match the roughly 18 mil contract he is going to get. Worst case scenario....damn it

I can't see Mitch getting 18 million a year.

Worse players have gotten as good or better money

But how many centers have been signed on Mitch's level for $18M per? The market is always changing, sure, but $18M would be an outlier. Of course, it's always tough to predict another teams level of desperation. But I would be surprised if Mitch got $15M. Christian Wood, who is more talented but also had some character concerns, is making $13-$14M per.

Jarrett Allen signed for $20M per last summer. Now to his credit, he has put space between him and Mitch with a great year. But before that, I had the two of them placed pretty close to each other (at least up to the point Mitch got injured last March).

I don't think it's outrageous if Mitch's camp (who knows who that'll be by July...) asks for $18M per. Counter with a highlight reel of Mitch at the stripe and settle at $15-$16? I'd be thrilled!

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I was way off on the situation with Mitch. He will want Capella money. Looks like we are going to lose him for nothing if he is UFA. I doubt we match the roughly 18 mil contract he is going to get. Worst case scenario....damn it

I can't see Mitch getting 18 million a year.

Worse players have gotten as good or better money

But how many centers have been signed on Mitch's level for $18M per? The market is always changing, sure, but $18M would be an outlier. Of course, it's always tough to predict another teams level of desperation. But I would be surprised if Mitch got $15M. Christian Wood, who is more talented but also had some character concerns, is making $13-$14M per.

The salary cap is getting increased by $8-9 million next summer. Mitch is an excellent defensive Center and he’ll be a lethal lob dunk guy with a competent pg. a lot of GMs in the league think very highly of him and rightfully so

Fournier is getting $18 million next year. We can’t pay Mitch?

MaTT4281 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I was way off on the situation with Mitch. He will want Capella money. Looks like we are going to lose him for nothing if he is UFA. I doubt we match the roughly 18 mil contract he is going to get. Worst case scenario....damn it

I can't see Mitch getting 18 million a year.

Worse players have gotten as good or better money

But how many centers have been signed on Mitch's level for $18M per? The market is always changing, sure, but $18M would be an outlier. Of course, it's always tough to predict another teams level of desperation. But I would be surprised if Mitch got $15M. Christian Wood, who is more talented but also had some character concerns, is making $13-$14M per.

Jarrett Allen signed for $20M per last summer. Now to his credit, he has put space between him and Mitch with a great year. But before that, I had the two of them placed pretty close to each other (at least up to the point Mitch got injured last March).

I don't think it's outrageous if Mitch's camp (who knows who that'll be by July...) asks for $18M per. Counter with a highlight reel of Mitch at the stripe and settle at $15-$16? I'd be thrilled!

TPercy wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I was way off on the situation with Mitch. He will want Capella money. Looks like we are going to lose him for nothing if he is UFA. I doubt we match the roughly 18 mil contract he is going to get. Worst case scenario....damn it

I can't see Mitch getting 18 million a year.

Worse players have gotten as good or better money

But how many centers have been signed on Mitch's level for $18M per? The market is always changing, sure, but $18M would be an outlier. Of course, it's always tough to predict another teams level of desperation. But I would be surprised if Mitch got $15M. Christian Wood, who is more talented but also had some character concerns, is making $13-$14M per.

Jarrett Allen signed for $20M per last summer. Now to his credit, he has put space between him and Mitch with a great year. But before that, I had the two of them placed pretty close to each other (at least up to the point Mitch got injured last March).

I don't think it's outrageous if Mitch's camp (who knows who that'll be by July...) asks for $18M per. Counter with a highlight reel of Mitch at the stripe and settle at $15-$16? I'd be thrilled!

Jarrett Allen before signing did way more than Mitch and it aint close tbh

I'm not looking to give Mitch that kind of money but it doesnt mean Mitch is wrong for asking.

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martin wrote:

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IMO $12-$13M is about right for Mitch ($10-$15 range). I would sign up for that......2 or 3 years with extra team option year. Just my guess however that he will be looking for more.

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I was way off on the situation with Mitch. He will want Capella money. Looks like we are going to lose him for nothing if he is UFA. I doubt we match the roughly 18 mil contract he is going to get. Worst case scenario....damn it

I can't see Mitch getting 18 million a year.

Worse players have gotten as good or better money

But how many centers have been signed on Mitch's level for $18M per? The market is always changing, sure, but $18M would be an outlier. Of course, it's always tough to predict another teams level of desperation. But I would be surprised if Mitch got $15M. Christian Wood, who is more talented but also had some character concerns, is making $13-$14M per.

Jarrett Allen signed for $20M per last summer. Now to his credit, he has put space between him and Mitch with a great year. But before that, I had the two of them placed pretty close to each other (at least up to the point Mitch got injured last March).

I don't think it's outrageous if Mitch's camp (who knows who that'll be by July...) asks for $18M per. Counter with a highlight reel of Mitch at the stripe and settle at $15-$16? I'd be thrilled!

Jarrett Allen before signing did way more than Mitch and it aint close tbh

can you quantify that in any way? Mitch's first 4 years vs. Allen's are very similar. I would Allen has been scoring skills while Mitch is a better defender over all.

I'm not looking to give Mitch that kind of money but it doesnt mean Mitch is wrong for asking.

I'd say the gap between Allen's offensive utility compared to Mitch is much greater than gap between Mitch's defensive utility compared to Allen. Even then, people where asking what the hell Cleveland was smoking when Allen's deal was announced.

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I was way off on the situation with Mitch. He will want Capella money. Looks like we are going to lose him for nothing if he is UFA. I doubt we match the roughly 18 mil contract he is going to get. Worst case scenario....damn it

I can't see Mitch getting 18 million a year.

Worse players have gotten as good or better money

But how many centers have been signed on Mitch's level for $18M per? The market is always changing, sure, but $18M would be an outlier. Of course, it's always tough to predict another teams level of desperation. But I would be surprised if Mitch got $15M. Christian Wood, who is more talented but also had some character concerns, is making $13-$14M per.

Jarrett Allen signed for $20M per last summer. Now to his credit, he has put space between him and Mitch with a great year. But before that, I had the two of them placed pretty close to each other (at least up to the point Mitch got injured last March).

I don't think it's outrageous if Mitch's camp (who knows who that'll be by July...) asks for $18M per. Counter with a highlight reel of Mitch at the stripe and settle at $15-$16? I'd be thrilled!

Jarrett Allen before signing did way more than Mitch and it aint close tbh

can you quantify that in any way? Mitch's first 4 years vs. Allen's are very similar. I would Allen has been scoring skills while Mitch is a better defender over all.

I'm not looking to give Mitch that kind of money but it doesnt mean Mitch is wrong for asking.

I'd say the gap between Allen's offensive utility compared to Mitch is much greater than gap between Mitch's defensive utility compared to Allen. Even then, people where asking what the hell Cleveland was smoking when Allen's deal was announced.

I disagree on the "it aint close", years 1-4.

It's got to be mentioned that Mitch's offense is 100% in the flow of the game. He's not requiring sets, he's literally stealing points from the other team off the offensive board is getting the easy finish off of a drive (95% of the time from RJ). He's found a way to make a living off of it, which is a prerequisite if you're going to be paired next to a high usage guy like Randle.

Still, I'm not - and I don't think anyone is - calling for Mitch to match Allen's contract. But that's got to be looked at as the line in the sand, even on Mitch's side, and where I expect they start negotiating from.

MaTT4281 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I was way off on the situation with Mitch. He will want Capella money. Looks like we are going to lose him for nothing if he is UFA. I doubt we match the roughly 18 mil contract he is going to get. Worst case scenario....damn it

I can't see Mitch getting 18 million a year.

Worse players have gotten as good or better money

But how many centers have been signed on Mitch's level for $18M per? The market is always changing, sure, but $18M would be an outlier. Of course, it's always tough to predict another teams level of desperation. But I would be surprised if Mitch got $15M. Christian Wood, who is more talented but also had some character concerns, is making $13-$14M per.

Jarrett Allen signed for $20M per last summer. Now to his credit, he has put space between him and Mitch with a great year. But before that, I had the two of them placed pretty close to each other (at least up to the point Mitch got injured last March).

I don't think it's outrageous if Mitch's camp (who knows who that'll be by July...) asks for $18M per. Counter with a highlight reel of Mitch at the stripe and settle at $15-$16? I'd be thrilled!

Jarrett Allen before signing did way more than Mitch and it aint close tbh

can you quantify that in any way? Mitch's first 4 years vs. Allen's are very similar. I would Allen has been scoring skills while Mitch is a better defender over all.

I'm not looking to give Mitch that kind of money but it doesnt mean Mitch is wrong for asking.

I'd say the gap between Allen's offensive utility compared to Mitch is much greater than gap between Mitch's defensive utility compared to Allen. Even then, people where asking what the hell Cleveland was smoking when Allen's deal was announced.

I disagree on the "it aint close", years 1-4.

It's got to be mentioned that Mitch's offense is 100% in the flow of the game. He's not requiring sets, he's literally stealing points from the other team off the offensive board is getting the easy finish off of a drive (95% of the time from RJ). He's found a way to make a living off of it, which is a prerequisite if you're going to be paired next to a high usage guy like Randle.

Still, I'm not - and I don't think anyone is - calling for Mitch to match Allen's contract. But that's got to be looked at as the line in the sand, even on Mitch's side, and where I expect they start negotiating from.

Before coming into the NBA, we know his history or dropping out of going to college and "working" with a trainer. Doubt much happened compared to normal guys in his position.

After year 1: Doubt much happened but who knows.

After year 2: Didn't either he or his mom have a kid and he took a lot of time off? That's when he posted those whacky 3point shooting videos against 6 foot and under dudes. Not productive.

After year 3: Recovery from injury this past offseason, so zero real work.

Most guys get better in the offseason. For Mitch, all development has been done in season for better or worse.

He may still have a huge ceiling but it may never get the right work ethic to get there.

martin wrote:

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this would be very reasonable and potentially even a steal.

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1248?